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This year I'll actually have to breakdown and buy tires! I want to try these new Kumhos as they look really good. What size to run? I currently have 195/55/14 Victoracers. I was hoping to see if the 205 V710's would fit. I don't really know how much the section width and tread width relate in reality to fitment. It looks like I can fit wider rubber on the A3 than the A2, but then again what do I know? Kirk? Dave Z?
We squeezed 225/50-14 Toyos on the 6" wheels (left in the image), when we went from SSC to ITB. The 205/55 is on the right. The new ones have a section width (published) of 9" even and we don't have any clearance problems. The MkIII's have a lot of fender.
In fact, it looks like we'll be running the same size Hoosier - 1/3 inch wider section - for the Summit 12 Hours.
And I have 5mm of spacers behind each wheel...
http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/tires.jpg
EDIT - the pic is deceptive. They are damn near the same OD.
[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 31, 2005).]
Hoosiers for the 12 Hour? Holy Big Budget Kirkman! Which Hoosiers will you be running? The RS03's I hope. The 04's aren't known to last that long. Granted that the MINI is very camber challenged we're doubtfull that we could make a MARRS race on those things, let alone an enduro. I haven't heard good things about those tires when it comes to longevity. Hopefully the new 05 model will be better... I think you'd keep the Toyos. I'd like to see if I could fit the new Kumhos in a 225. They also have a 9.1" section width. As do the Hoosierswith 9.3". The Hoosiers cost 25 more according to Tire Rack. What do the Toyo's run?
Au contraire mon frere !!!
My wife speaks some French... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
The 04 Hoosiers will out last the 03 Hoosiers 2 to 1.......
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Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION
www.philstireservice.com
Really? That's excellent! I know with the MINI that we ran into serious camber issues. Not just with the Hoosiers, but anything that's black and round mounted to the wheels! I crewed for some PCA guys at a track day and they all seemed to have a lot of wear. Granted these guys were all on basically stock suspensions that'll overwork the tires, but we were seeing tires cord very very quickly. Comparing a 996 at 3300 lbs+ to an IT GTI at 1000 pounds less will yield a few differences I know! I really liked the F1 look of the Hoosiers and since the Kumhos have seriously jumped up in price since the Victoracer purchases I made oh say three years ago... maybe it's time I think purple.
I'm off of work today and working on the car in balmy 38 degree weather. This feels like spring compared to the other day when it was 14 degrees. No work was done on the car that day! I need to get my cage prepped and painted and install my new seat. Lots to do, but I can't wait ot get out on the track!
That's been my experience as well. You can read about it here:Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The 04 Hoosiers will out last the 03 Hoosiers 2 to 1...</font>
http://forum.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum1...TML/000844.html
I already know that I am going to be showered with remarks about how I am wrong, but in my experience the new hoosier is horrible. I have only autocrossed on it, but I was autocrossing on the road racing compound and as a two driver car I can maybe get 4-5 autocrosses on a set with very even tirewear and we are not running any airport autocrosses either. We have an e36 bmw that we autocross. Previously we ran the 03s with much longer tire wear. I went through over two sets of tires this year. As I return to roadracing this year, the new hoosier will not be my choice. I know some people are telling me they think the new hoosier is better/last longer, I just do not see it. Between My father and I, we have over 15 years of autocross experience and over 10 years of road racing experience. I do not say this to boast, I say this only so you guys realize we are not idiots out there overdriving an ill-prepared car. I thought the 03s where an expensive club tire, I will not even comment on the 04s. Honestly I would like to run the hoosier (they are the only ones the make the size I really need), I just cannot justify it. Maybe the ARRC will justify a set, I do not know at this point. Just my experience that I thought I would share.
MadRabbit, one problem I see with your usage is that you possibly assumed that a "harder" road race tire would last longer than an appropriate "autocross" tire. That is not necessarily the case.
Tell me this: what tire surface temperatures were you seeing after each run? Did you actually take tire temps? Any tire, especially a race tire, has an optimal temperature range. If you do not reach that range, or if you exceed it, the tire will not reach its optimal grip level and it will slide. Sliding produces excessive wear and that wearing of the tire sheds off even more heat, making the problem worse.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you did *not* take temps, and if you did the tires never reached its optimum temperature range of 180-220 degrees. Thus, you experienced excessive wear because you did not choose the proper tire compound.
The moral here is that there are different uses for different tires, and mis-using them will result in poor performance... GA
Just for reference, we use to run the 03 autocross compound tire before we switched to the 03 roadrace compound time for longer life as recommended by hoosier, and it worked. Tire temps taken after a run where anywhere from 130-160 depending on the track surface and conditions. I definitely see your point and understand it, but I just dont think that is the case here. On a side note, when we did the solo at kershaw and temps where close to 200, the tire wore twice as quick. If your hoosier tire temps are 220 on a race track your tires arent gonna last nearly as long as if they were at 150, any tire tech will tell you that. Bottom line is this, I totally agree that hoosier makes the fastest tire, but there is also a big difference in tire wear between a upfront driver and a middle of the pack driver. I know people who get 3-4 weekends on a set of hoosiers and then I know people who only get one weekend on a set. Those people who only get one weekend on a set, generally are a whole lot further up the grid than the other. Heck, when I raced a couple of years ago I averaged 8-9 weekends a year, and beleive me the hoosier bill was not cheap. My whole experience with this is that I PERSONALLY do not like the new hoosiers as much as the old ones. If you want to go fast you have to pay, and right now, I just dont think its worth it for me to pay that much on a club level. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, I tell everyone to try for themselves. Just warning some that certain decisions could be a whole lot more expensive than others.
Don't go by how the tire wears at CMP.....that track is like a cheese grader. Ever go out a walk around by the kink...the track is incredibly rough to the touch...I corded a Hoosier there ......too much understeer and a very coarse track !!! I'll agree with Greg.... proper tire break-in, maintenance, car set-up and after-care makes the new Hoosiers wear extremely well.
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Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION
www.philstireservice.com
Hey, I have a swift with 195/55-14's (kumho's), and was wondering about tire size on these smaller ITB cars. With such little horsepower, is it possible to "over tire" the car?
I've been told not to move to a bigger tire as I will be wasting my time (and money).
Yet, I see some really fast ITB cars with big tires (205's or bigger).
Anyone had any direct comparison experience with this?
matt
On our Audi's we experienced longer wear and faster lap times. We did zero modifications to my car before last season so esentially we ran the exact car in '03 and '04 except tires. I was consistantly .5 seconds faster all year at every track I ran at. At atlanta I was 2 seconds faster but I attribute that to track experience since in '03 I only ran 27 laps for the entire weekend. And this year my bro beat my fast lap last year in 1 session so I had to go faster! This year at the ARRC we purchased 4 new tires (2 fronts for each car) We used used tires for the test day and the first qualifying. The second qualifying we used the new tires, for the race we used the new tires and for the enduro qualifying we used 1 car and the new tires. 1/2 way through the race we changed the left front tire only.
So '04 Hoosiers this year at the ARRC
1 20 min qualifying
1 20 lap race (only made 18 laps about 35 min)
1 50 min enduro qualifying
1/2 of a 3 hr enduro race for the left fornt tire and the entire 3 hr enduro for the right fornt tire.
I thought this wear was great especially for an Audi Coupe. Phil had run one of these cars and he is "the Tire MAN" so he knows that these cars are very tough on the front tires. I think you'll find they get good wear when not "abused"
Stephen
Matt I changed form 205's to 225's and was told the same thing. In the long run my tires last a lot longer and I am faster. I do think you need to test it though to make your final decision. if your temps are above 210 across the entire tire then you need to go bigger. if you do go bigger and you can't get the temps to 190 then you've gone to big. This is the easiest way for me to tell and maybe Phil can give his professional opinion as well. As far as power and to much tire that is tough to tell. the biggest challenge for an under powered car is momentum... if you can carry 10mph faster through a turn then you can afford to loose some of that power because of the momentum you've gained. I think that with a car like yours you'll get faster and faster for a few laps then just keep that momentum up for the rest of the session. I would definetly try 205's for your car.Quote:
Originally posted by zooracer:
I've been told not to move to a bigger tire as I will be wasting my time (and money).
Yet, I see some really fast ITB cars with big tires (205's or bigger).
Anyone had any direct comparison experience with this?
matt
Stephen