ITR to big bore class?

[Tim Dugan]

Now u all know I love u but are we really gonna try and stuff all the IT classes in one race group? I love the idea but what is gonna happen when the group fills up and there is no more room on the track for all of us crazy drivers? I don't wanna start bitching yet but will we ITR get the big boot to big booooor group? Just trying to plan my weekend.

[dickita15]

Tim, i have no idea what the call will be in August but we are trying hard to have race groups that are as balances as possible with the least number of run groups. the best long term solution may be to move both ITR and ITS to big bore. in May big bore was:


GT1

1



GT2
1


GT3
1


AS
4


ITE
7


T1
0


T2
1


SPO
0


15 cars.
ITS was 1 and ITR was 9
even at lime rock which usually draws big bore car we had only 19 and 10 ITS and 7 ITR

[Terry Hanushek]

Tim / Dick

FWIW .. I realize that this is in a different environment with a different mix of cars but the DC Region kept ITR in their Big Bore for years and completely killed ITR participation. This is the second year that ITR has returned to an IT oriented group and the class still is not reviving.

Disclaimer: I have not looked at the NER groups and have no idea what the options are.

HTH

Terry

[dickita15]

i appreciate the mistake WDC made when ITR was created. it would seem to me if S and R were moved there are enough of the IT cars that they would drive the culture of the group. at NH and Thompson there are not many big bore GT cars, the biggest turn out is AS.

I understand why the IT guys would not want to move to a class where they are not the big dogs but if they could make it work they would be in a smaller group and everyone would get more time on track.

[MMiskoe]

DC Region kept ITR in their Big Bore for years and completely killed ITR participation.

Why does this have anything to do w/ participation numbers? In some ways it can be easier to be the slower car - you simply drive your car, your race, your line. Let those guys pass you, they bear the brunt of responsibility.

I always assumed that ITR was slow to pick up due to the cost of building these cars is high and the class got started just as we had a huge change in disposable income across the country. All participation numbers fell. Hell, spec miata would not have been so popular had it been launched in 2007.

[Greg Amy]

Dude....if you spend all that time and money building a BMW or a Porsche for ITR, it better be for the overall win...if you're in a Mazda..."meh".

;)

[StephenB]

Dude....if you spend all that time and money building a BMW or a Porsche for ITR, it better be for the overall win...if you're in a Mazda..."meh".

;)

Hey wait a minute... I drive a mazda... in ITR, guess I am doomed :)

On another note back on topic, I liked running in Big bore earlier in the year. I got to watch the other IT cars which I always enjoy :)

Stephen

[JS154]

Why does this have anything to do w/ participation numbers? In some ways it can be easier to be the slower car - you simply drive your car, your race, your line. Let those guys pass you, they bear the brunt of responsibility.



Try running a full tilt boogie STU car in the same class a double dipping SM cars and B-Spec. STU ran with big bore at the Glen Nationals in '11 and it worked out just fine. Ever since it's been a clusterfork of miatae. No fun trying to didge those things when they're in the middle of a 2 car battle and you're closing on them at 40-50 mph.

[JS154]

I'm very curious as to why we're not seeing any ITS/ITR cars running the Majors or Runoffs in STU. There's one here and there, but nowhere near the cross-class participation I was expecting.

[StephenB]

Because we would get our butts kicked! They are not even remotely close to an STU car. Probably 4+ seconds slower to a proper STU car, maybe more. Oh and improved touring has cars to race against :-)

Stephen

[Z3_GoCar]

Sounds about right. Current race lap records at MRLS:



ITR
1:43.359
77.94
JOSH SIROTA
CUPERTINO, CA
99 BMW
5/4/2008


ITS
1:43.224
78.05
DOUG MAKISHIMA
DUBLIN, CA
87 BMW
10/27/2007




STL
1:43.488
77.85
Lucas Catania

2013 Mazda MX-5
3/30/2014


STO
1:32.924
86.70
STEVE GOLDMAN
MALIBU, CA
08 PORSCHE
6/21/2009


STU
1:37.811
82.37
Andrie Hartanto
Concord CA, CA
2005 Honda S2000
6/7/2014



1:43.3 to 1:37.8 -> 4.5 seconds

IT's not been doing so well down here, and I can't say how it's doing in SFR, but based on this year there's 3 ITS cars and 1 ITR car at the last divisional at Sears Point.

[JLawton]

Now u all know I love u but are we really gonna try and stuff all the IT classes in one race group? I love the idea but what is gonna happen when the group fills up and there is no more room on the track for all of us crazy drivers? I don't wanna start bitching yet but will we ITR get the big boot to big booooor group? Just trying to plan my weekend.

From the looks of things so far it doesn't look like there will be a need for shuffling at the NHMS RAL event........ and I certainly like running with ITB/S/R better than the Prod classes. I felt at Thompson they really weren't respecting the "don't race cars from other classes" unwritten rule............ In fact, I would love to have some of them look at my video to see how crappy they were driving..........

[Bill Miller]

Why does this have anything to do w/ participation numbers? In some ways it can be easier to be the slower car - you simply drive your car, your race, your line. Let those guys pass you, they bear the brunt of responsibility.

I always assumed that ITR was slow to pick up due to the cost of building these cars is high and the class got started just as we had a huge change in disposable income across the country. All participation numbers fell. Hell, spec miata would not have been so popular had it been launched in 2007.

It may or may not be a cause, but if it is, I could think that losing track time may be a consideration. I just looked at the lap times at Summit Point for GT1 and ITR. The GT1 record is just under 1:11 while the ITR record is over 1:23. That's a big gap, and means that the ITR folks have the potential to lose a lap per race. Now, I don't think that's the cause, because plenty of other classes have to deal with that when they're the slow class in the run group. I think it's probably more a function of the economy. I'd look at the overall ITR participation numbers around the country for the past 5-6 years.

As far as those MRLS lap times, it's a 5.5 second gap between STU and ITR. But I'm not sure how much stock I'd place in those. If you look at Josh's time, it's from early on in the timeline of ITR, not to mention that it's actually slower than the ITS record. I suspect the reason that it's stood for so long, is that there aren't many full-tilt ITR cars in that area.