"Back to the Future" Thompson, July 2014

[Greg Amy]

All-new track lap records...

So I had to do a double-take WTF on this entry in the supps:

Commercial Unmanned Aircraft System (aka “Drone”) owners/operators must have proof of FAA certification
and $10M of primary liability insurance naming both SCCA, New England Region and Thompson Speedway
Motorsports Park as additional insured. A general liability insurance policy must specify that it includes the
operation of Unmanned Aircraft. Recreational use of unmanned aircraft is prohibited.


JB, you just trying to make sure we're reading...? At least the fixed the alcohol rule this time...

I'm'a gonna count the number of people that actually bring their helmets to tech for an event sticker.

[Raceman77]

yup. SCCA thing now. I am told it is needed in the supps.

[team-gpracing]

I saw that too. I was like, whaaaaa? And then I figured it was for high-tech photogs. Yusuf, you need one!!!

[georgethefierce]

they had a guy at BMWCCA show up with one and they ended up booting him halfway through a session.

[gran racing]

Makes sense to me especially considering that the pricing of those things is attainable these days. I could easily see people bringing them and causing major issues.

[craigs]

I just finished labeling mine "Private Drone - Not for hire."

[Greg Amy]

I just finished labeling mine "Private Drone - Not for hire."
:lol:

Unfortunately, they got you covered there, too:

Recreational use of unmanned aircraft is prohibited.

[Matt Rowe]

This is the beginning of a slippery slope. The next thing they will have to ban is the SAM's the stewards will need to start bringing to the events to enforce this rule. Then you'll have stealth drones and so on. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I've seen a handful of these at events. Always operated by participants that were very respectful and very aware of avoiding any potential risk to the event. As the HMFIC at I talked to a couple of the owners about keeping them out of risky zones and they were agreeable and were happy to share the videos made with others and improved the experience. This really seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[dickita15]

like most issues this came out of Florida. the unit i saw pictures of from Sebring was pretty big, maybe 3 feet across. we asked the insurance carriers and they said the lack of regulation causes a problem and asked us to ban them for now. Now the list of things the insurance companies do not want us involved in are skydiving, cranes and drones.

[Greg Amy]

Now the list of things the insurance companies do not want us involved in are skydiving, cranes and drones.
Hell add porno magazines, a bottle of Old Harper, a package of condoms, a box of tampons, some illegal fireworks, and one of those disposable enemas, and that sounds like one hell of a party...

[Matt Rowe]

Dick, it seems like the longer term solution is to ban Florida. :)

I can imagine the story behind banning skydiving at club racing events is entertaining.

[Serge]

That's a hell of a concoction! now should I be afraid to go to one of Greg's party?

[StephF]

Hell add porno magazines, a bottle of Old Harper, a package of condoms, a box of tampons, some illegal fireworks, and one of those disposable enemas, and that sounds like one hell of a party...

Or dyno day at Kessler's

[Wreckerboy]

Or dyno day at Kessler's

I think Kessler just calls that "Tuesday."

[StephenB]

Only 146 entries so far. If your not going why? Be honest so our region can see the feedback. I expected more at a cool new track in the north east at a great location. We had more at a "non" race weekend a month ago....

Is it cost? I know it was much less expensive to go to the soft opening? If so what is the breaking point for you? Is the weekend? Does it conflict with a big weekend nearby? We need to keep learning so we can pay the bills and get more cars on track!

Stephen

[gran racing]

I have to work that Saturday and they are not giving a discount for Sunday only start at the back. If the entry fee were about half, I would have planned on attending. (I did ask but Ray saw how that went. LOL!!)

[Greg Amy]

I'm likely to pull my entry and work Contact Impound instead. I expect that to be a lot more interesting.

[StephF]

The next weekend is NARRC and Pro IT at WGI, so when faced with a back to back decision, the Glen won.

[StephenB]

That seems to be the theme... the Glen won...

[georgethefierce]

Only 146 entries so far. If your not going why? Be honest so our region can see the feedback. I expected more at a cool new track in the north east at a great location. We had more at a "non" race weekend a month ago....

Is it cost? I know it was much less expensive to go to the soft opening? If so what is the breaking point for you? Is the weekend? Does it conflict with a big weekend nearby? We need to keep learning so we can pay the bills and get more cars on track!

Stephen

I've heard people ditching because WGi is the week after and some people I have spoken to aren't too keen on the one session on Sunday.

[Greg Amy]

I have no plans to go to the Glen Regional, but I am at the Glen Majors the weekend before.

I suggest, however, my primary reason for considering volunteering instead of racing is that during the "soft opening" I developed serious reservations about how the track will "race". Starting from the back of our group, I found it extremely difficult, and highly frustrating, that the track had no flow and even with a significant horsepower advantage I could not get up to relative speed to stick a clean pass (a la Watkins Glen). Yet, the track itself is so stop-and-go that it does not provide consistency such that a momentum car could maintain speed and stay in front of a higher-horsepower car (a la Lime Rock).

There's only one place on the track where a higher-pony car could stick a clean pass, and all the slower car needs to do is move over one lane to stop it from happening. If someone in front wanted to keep you back there, they could do it with little effort.

I fear this will cause a lot of driver frustration, resulting in unreasonable desperation passes, with a lot of metal-to-metal.

Dick related to me that we said the same thing about NHMS, but in the end it all worked out. I don't know, I wasn't there then, but I personally never thought that when I first hit NHMS (not even with the chicane/chicane layout). I sincerely hope my fears are unfounded. But, I'll probably sit this one out and instead do paperwork, then maybe I'll come back later in the year and give it a shot.

Greg

[gran racing]

Absolutely agree. The oval sections and the front straight. Other sections the driver would need to stuff it in there and the other driver be aware that it's happening and give way.

[JLawton]

So where is everyone paddocking? Are there showers? Is the paddock area paved?

[georgethefierce]

So where is everyone paddocking? Are there showers? Is the paddock area paved?

B paddock, No, Yes...bring an ez-up or 3...no shade.

[Greg Amy]

B paddock, No, Yes...bring an ez-up or 3...no shade.

That may have changed, Jason; my roomie this weekend was talking about staying in the same place as the "soft" weekend.

And as noted, no showers (yet), no shade (well, not much accessable to paddock under).

[georgethefierce]

That may have changed, Jason; my roomie this weekend was talking about staying in the same place as the "soft" weekend.

And as noted, no showers (yet), no shade (well, not much accessable to paddock under).

I shall follow the pack with my cooler and ez-up.

[JLawton]

That may have changed, Jason; my roomie this weekend was talking about staying in the same place as the "soft" weekend.



So we may not be using B paddock? Is that the one over the bridge?

More silly questions: Food on site? Anywhere close for food and gas?

[Greg Amy]

So we may not be using B paddock? Is that the one over the bridge?
B Paddock will be available this time; it's the one down by the earth mound inside T10/11.

We will not be paddocking over the bridge; all of our stuff must be inside the bridge. Any overflow will go to inside the oval. However, the car count is manageable and that is not likely to happen.


Food on site? Anywhere close for food and gas?

There's a food truck on site, and the food is actually pretty tasty and not too expensive. There's a retail area just one exit south with a Super Stop & Shop, gas, fast food, Advanced Auto Parts, etc.

GA

[Greg Amy]

Just got an email that indicated we'll be tightly controlling vehicle access to the paddock. You'll get a paddock pass for your main tow vehicle, and all others will need to park over the bridge, in the area in front of the clubhouse. It's not a long walk, but there may be shuttle carts to drive you over into the paddock.

This should help with paddock congestion. Please do not force your street car into the paddock just to save a 200-yard walk...

[robits325is]

Is 100 Octane fuel available?

[Greg Amy]

There are pumps there, but I don't recall what they were dispensing. It was not 93 octane, because I recall having to drive out to get it.

[gran racing]

They now have 93 as well.

[team-gpracing]

98 unleaded and 110 leaded was what they had at the soft opening. Soon to be self-serve as well!!!

[StephF]

And as I learned from experience, Northeast Racing Supply is just 15 min away, in RI, just in case you need any performance parts (like a mirror :o )
They had quite a bit of stuff there, brands like Longacre, etc.

[YusufA]

Back to the Future pictures! (http://abudiphotography.com/pa/lr/TMP-July-2014/index_2.html)

Enjoy,

Yusuf

[Greg Amy]

...I found it extremely difficult, and highly frustrating, that the track had no flow and even with a significant horsepower advantage I could not get up to relative speed to stick a clean pass (a la Watkins Glen)....the track itself is so stop-and-go that it does not provide consistency such that a momentum car could maintain speed and stay in front of a higher-horsepower car (a la Lime Rock)...I fear this will cause a lot of driver frustration, resulting in unreasonable desperation passes, with a lot of metal-to-metal.
Hoo-boy, was I a busy man today. I did not do a final count, but I managed more drivers with contact impound reports in five hours today than I did at any other weekend...ever. We had two driver protests go through (both with reprimand-level penalties), two more protests submitted and later withdrawn, three more protests threatened and dropped, and at least one Chief Stewards Action. And, believe it or not, it wasn't all Miatae.

I am freaking BEAT.

And yet...I had someone come up to me toward the end of the afternoon and say that he felt the track was working in, that the more he drove it the better it raced. So there's hope...;)

Good weekend, great times with friends, super to be back home at a reasonable hour.

GA

[StephenB]

I think it was real fun to race on. You make a mistake and you pay for it in lap time... and with so many corners you can make a lot off mistakes. Unlike most tracks with so many 180 turns it feels like your turning a LOT more than your going forward. I did have a real hard time passing but it made it real fun. A few key corners to the track that will give you fast lap but not enough of a run before the next turn to make a momentum pass, you need to pass under braking... turn 11 is key to this track and for any SM or IT car we need to be flat or go make an adjustment to the car until you can be. (Yes I did it)
My data shows if I can put together a continuous lap I could have been @ a 19. (Theoretical was actually an 18) I Only managed a 21.2. A real good driver will be fast, a good driver will make a small mistake every lap and never leave knowing they had "that lap"

Stephen

[dickita15]

i do think the track is getting better but Stephen is right there are lots of chances to make mistakes and when i made one it seemed really hard to get back in the groove. I got tapped in the rear at the apex and knocked off the track twice this weekend by cars in other classes, neither had malicious intent and other than losing spots there was no real harm. both were a result of not understanding how different cars were going to react. that will get better. I hope.
one thing i was having a hard time dealing with is near the end of the long race i was getting lapped by some faster class cars. they would toodle around the turns near the oval and not make a move and then coming out of 10 stick a fender inside at 11 and try to push me outside on the most important apex on the track. for those who have not race there is is like sticking it inside in the downhill at lime rock, maybe worse. for me at least there is not a lot of margin there. i either have to make a big lift onto the long straight of wreck us both.

[JLawton]

Yeah, interesting weekend. I really don't like the track flow. As others have said, really tough to pass. It is a big auto X with a long straight. Abhi and I (he was in first, I was in second) came up on the group of IT7 cars that were battling. I knew that Abhi getting caught up in the middle was my only chance to possibly pass him so I know I made some "risky" passes to get by them. Hope I didn't mess anyone up and they all did a great job of letting us through.

Dick, if I couldn't stick the pass going into the oval it was really tough getting by anyone until flat footing it through 11. Hope it wasn't me who pushed you out because I know I did it to one of the IT7s...........

The only other place I found decent to pass was the corner coming off the oval (turn 8?). If I cut the corner straight using the grass on the left as the apex I could brake in a straight line to block the apex of the car taking the wide approach. (but considering they cant see you, you MUST be up along side or there will be contact) And seeing as you are immediately going into turn 9, it didn't matter if you were slow in 8. In fact, that was my normal line through there. There is no "straight" between 8 and 9 and I think most of us had to lift through 9 any how so why not take the shortest route??

The transitions onto and off of the old track really unsettled the car.............

Although, after making a really stupid mistake on the start of Saturday's race and going into turn one DFL in ITA, I was able to make quite a few passes on my way back up and through. The Prod cars killed me though......... They raced me like we were battling for position..........


I also over heated myself on Saturday. Looking back, I spent two days drinking plenty of water but not replacing any of the other shit in my body (sodium, potassium, etc.) and I think by time I finished Saturday's race I was a little out of it. Lesson learned............

Great job on the weekend JB!! Well done!

[dickita15]

well there is passing and then there is getting by slower cars. when you are racing someone you can find place to take away their line. when you are lapping or working your way back by out of class cars it is about working together to not hurt either car. not sure everyone understands the difference. i agree that 9 you can do a cooperative pass with little loss of time to either. if your car turns well i think it can be done on the oval as well.
when Abbi and you went by me he got but on the end of the straight and i lifted early to let you into on before me. neither of us lost much time and i did not screw up your race. a lapping car can stick it in on the right in clubhouse (4?) with little issue but trying to get inside of me in 3 or 11 and push me into the marbles and I will never give you a break again.

agreed JB done good and we as a group are learning a lot.

[georgethefierce]

Back to the Future pictures! (http://abudiphotography.com/pa/lr/TMP-July-2014/index_2.html)

Enjoy,

Yusuf

Great pics as always Yusuf! Thanks for sharing!

this pic sums up the IT7 weekend nicely

3792

[team-gpracing]

Back to the Future pictures! (http://abudiphotography.com/pa/lr/TMP-July-2014/index_2.html)

Enjoy,

Yusuf

Thanks as always Yusuf! FYI, page 14 wasn't loading for me.


Loved the "It's a bad weekend to be a Miata" vinyl on the 7's.

[georgethefierce]

Thanks for letting me know!
For some reason that page did not upload. I just reposted. Please try it and let me know.

all good now.

[dickita15]

Thanks as always Yusuf! FYI, page 14 wasn't loading for me.


Loved the "It's a bad weekend to be a Miata" vinyl on the 7's.

yea that was one of last years shark week ripoffs. the new one this time is the Dino chowing down your stick figure family.

[YusufA]

Thanks as always Yusuf! FYI, page 14 wasn't loading for me.


Loved the "It's a bad weekend to be a Miata" vinyl on the 7's.
Thanks for letting me know!
For some reason that page did not upload. I just re-posted. Please try it and let me know.

[StephenB]

Jeff, you said you didn't like the flow.. I actually love it. I think it has a rythm to it. I think they did a great job with the layout and I enjoy "lapping" just as much as racing it. Its a busy track just to drive let alone race on. Given the property they have I think its great, ya no watkins glen but compare it to NHMS and it is sooooo much better IMHO. I think the transition onto the oval is fine, gives a unique challenge with the camber change. Reviewing my Data from the weekend my fastest lap I LOST .7 seconds just in the bridge turn from when I did that same turn the fastest over the weekend. I think this turn may have a MUCH bigger impact on lap time than I ever thought it did... Coming off the oval it is bumpy and unsettles the car enough to make you pucker if your going fast and touching the brakes after your on the new pavement. That turn is fast, real fast! Dick is correct about coming onto the front in turn 11. not really a passing zone side by side or your screwed. if your lapping lift between 10 and 11 so you have a run on entry and take them on the way out... you will be WAY faster all the way down the front straight and be rewarded for it. if you lift IN the turn you lost time that you can never get back until turn 1. I am trying to post up my video now but it's taking forever. will put up a link when it is done.

[Serge]

Loved the "It's a bad weekend to be a Miata" vinyl on the 7's.[/QUOTE]

I must agree, it was a bad weekend to be a Miata :(

[team-gpracing]

Awww, sorry Serge. Prod Miatae don't count! And I hope I didn't scare you too much coming around four when you were spun around. By the time I saw you the car had already hooked and I was committed to going to the right of you.

[Raceman77]

nope he does count.

[Greg Amy]

nope he does count.

Yep, but only until 11...then he gets confused....

;)

[RSTPerformance]

Well my review...

First they are strict with the $10 entry after registration hours. I am personally not a huge fan of that, you would figure they are making enough on the region already at a $375 entry. How much more are they really making to stick it to those that show up late? Then after paying $10 you need to wait at a stupid red light before you cross the bridge... I love and hate that bridge!

Now onto those lego wall things... at a rumored $350 cost per damaged one to the region you have to question how long until something changes. I blew a tire in turn 7 (kept driving) and went off in turn 10. When I went off I brushed the wall on drivers left (it comes up real fast!). Minor damage to the rear quarter panel/tail light of the Audi but nothing to bad. If it was a concrete wall, guardrail, or tire wall it may not have been just a brush with the wall. When walking the track later I noticed a puncture in the section I skimmed (along with my red paint!). I hope that we did not have to pay for it. I also saw at least one car escape significant damage running straight into them. Not only did it save the car so it could back off the barrier and continue but it also avoid a FCY to pick up scattered tires or a damaged car in an impact zone. So with that said, I am not sure how I feel about them. That barrier certainly SAVED that driver way more than $350, although he may have damaged more than one :)

Next lets talk about the most important part, safety! This ties into the above. Those Lego things ARE car/life savers, unless you could ride over them (rumor was at another event someone did ride up on top of some?) With or without the lego's this is IMO one of the safest tracks I have raced at. Sure the pit lane needs an entry, and I don't like the concrete wall on drivers left coming onto the oval or that half wall on drivers right coming on the oval but that turn (6?) is more stable than it seems when you are actually driving - even with the transition Jeff is complaining about. On line I actually didn't really notice much of a transition in the Audi. I would guess that other than car failure the biggest/most common place you can get in trouble due to driver error would be turn 10. But the slower unique configuration of this track really makes it safe IMO.

Now lets talk about turn 1 on the first lap... Sure there can be carnage but with the slow speed of a start it really isn't any more dangerous than any other turn 1. In fact I think it is FAR more safe than turn 3 at NHMS or big bend at Lime Rock. Plenty of room everywhere to drop off and continue. It is an early turn in, so just realize if you are on drivers left entering the turn you WILL have someone on the inside of you pushing you out toward the curb on the exit. Hold on through turn 2 and get them back in turn 3!

So what about the rest of the track when you are racing??? Other than in turn 1 I don't think it is as easy to pass as other tracks but there are plenty of places to pass cars IMO. Get yourself up beside someone and you can run side by side until someone gets a lead. Basically it will take you two or three turns to make the pass stick. This is better than A LOT of other tracks. Those complaining really need to think about it... most tracks have only 1 or 2 good passing zones (Even great tracks like Lime Rock, and about Mid Ohio) In good wheel to wheel racing the best passes are the ones that take a few turns to complete! And the track is plenty big enough for side by side racing.

Now about that Autocross... I am not a fan of that comparison. This is not an autocross. If it were we wouldn't be in third gear through most of the track (just like NHMS), we would be in 2nd. Yes, the track is busy, but it has a ton of great turns. Does it have to many? I can see the argument but for now I like it. My least favorite turn is 7/8. Could be that I never figured it out... but I really didn't like that turn. I wish we used the oval but those walls look like they could hurt!

The big thing I do like about the track... it is unique! In the Northeast our tracks are all small and tight, unlike other places in the country. IMO you can only do so much with ~1.5 miles and this is nothing like Lime Rock or NHMS. Cars generally don't dominate both of those tracks, and once again they may not dominate here. Three very similar length tracks that are completely different. With the space they had I really think they did a great job bringing this track back to life. The other great part, it is close easy ride to home for a ton of people.

I hope more people come out and race it, I don't think they will be disappointed... and if they are they didn't want to drive someplace new.

Raymond

[JLawton]

turn (6?) is more stable than it seems when you are actually driving - even with the transition Jeff is complaining about.

Then you're not driving it fast enough! ;)

[StephenB]

Haha, I thought the same thing jeff :-) You beat me to posting that same comment!

I wonder what it will be like after a new england winter...

And on another note did anyone see them painting turn 10 with brown sealer on Sunday... I did.

Stephen

[gran racing]

I actually thought 3 could be a reasonable place to pass. Slower car stays outside, faster apexes early. IF they see you. During soft opening I attempted that but needed to back off.

[StephenB]

Here is a video of Sundays race at Thompson from outside pole in the ITR Mazda RX8. First lap is in real time then most of the video is fast forward to make it faster. I know a few people that wanted to see the incident in turn 1 on the start. I also slowed it down when I made the pass for third on Rob Breault and then slowed it down again when I almost lost it in Turn 10. My fast lap in the race was only a 1:21.7 and fastest of the weekend was a 121.2. I really wish my rotary thing under the hood had a lot more torque for the starts!


http://youtu.be/_WVNnGwoA0M

Stephen

[JLawton]

Stephen, were you on street tires or Ho Ho's?

[Serge]

Awww, sorry Serge. Prod Miatae don't count! And I hope I didn't scare you too much coming around four when you were spun around. By the time I saw you the car had already hooked and I was committed to going to the right of you.

You and the following group certainly had my attention. Then I realized I'd better get the car restarted quickly and face in the right direction! :wacko:

[Serge]

Well my review...

First they are strict with the $10 entry after registration hours. I am personally not a huge fan of that, you would figure they are making enough on the reg! 0n already at a $375 entry. How much more are they really making to stick it to those that show up late? Then after paying $10 you need to wait at a stupid red light before you cross the bridge... I love and hate that bridge!
I agree. That additional $10.00 should not be charged to SCCA members. After all, the club is renting the track for the weekend and as a member, I shouldn't be charged for accessing our rental property.


Now onto those lego wall things... at a rumored $350 cost per damaged one to the region you have to question how long until something changes. I blew a tire in turn 7 (kept driving) and went off in turn 10. When I went off I brushed the wall on drivers left (it comes up real fast!). Minor damage to the rear quarter panel/tail light of the Audi but nothing to bad. If it was a concrete wall, guardrail, or tire wall it may not have been just a brush with the wall. When walking the track later I noticed a puncture in the section I skimmed (along with my red paint!). I hope that we did not have to pay for it. I also saw at least one car escape significant damage running straight into them. Not only did it save the car so it could back off the barrier and continue but it also avoid a FCY to pick up scattered tires or a damaged car in an impact zone. So with that said, I am not sure how I feel about them. That barrier certainly SAVED that driver way more than $350, although he may have damaged more than one :)
I personally tested the Lego wall Saturday morning, (strictly as an experiment):unsure: and discovered that they worked as designed. I sustained body work damage but the suspension and alignment were not affected. The advantage over the tire wall is that the Legos absorbed the momentum and didn't rebound the car across the track. Had this been Armco, the car would have been totaled.

Serge

[Jeremy Billiel]

Wow does that look tight. I was not at either event either, but boy it looks like an HPDE track and not a very good racing track.

[dickita15]

well my review...
The big thing i do like about the track... It is unique! In the northeast our tracks are all small and tight, unlike other places in the country. Imo you can only do so much with ~1.5 miles and this is nothing like lime rock or nhms. Cars generally don't dominate both of those tracks, and once again they may not dominate here. Three very similar length tracks that are completely different.
Raymond

qft

[StephenB]

Jeff,

I was on old Hoosiers friday and turned a 121.2. On Saturday and sunday I ran on what started as 1 heat cycled goodyears and ran high 21's and low 22's. I was not consistent on the goodyears as I struggled to figure out rear end grip and therefore made lots of mistakes resulting in inconsistent times. I even spun on my own in 3. (Friday was very consistent low 21's) I ran the street tires on the test weekend we had and ran a 24, that same weekend I ran a 22 on the same hoosiers i used this past friday. Street tires are cool for long races eliminating the need to swap tires but in Sprint races unless everyone is doing it... don't!

Stephen

[team-gpracing]

Serge, buy this (http://prodracing.com/prodcar/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15581) and you can have a collection! Sounds like the front end of it is in about the same shape as yours though.

[Serge]

Thanks for the suggestion. This is a very attractive car and priced well for a quick sale. Fortunately, my car damages this past weekend were superficial, mostly body work.

[team-gpracing]

That's good news. Did you know there are pix of your crash here (http://www.clarusstudios.com/client-galleries/tsmp-events/sports-car-711-713/?sub=5f3bdbb7d2deee8bd5b04ff50d141143)?

LOL! And look halfway down this page (http://www.clarusstudios.com/client-galleries/tsmp-events/sports-car-711-713/index.php?sub=28d57faa4c776dc3e8381311b3f22e95#pho to=4c947b839e6dc94650f2c38a0257776d) to see my "pass" on the right.

[Serge]

OUCH!!! Tough to relive. Not my finest moments.
Thanks for the links.
Serge