Cheap Date at NH

[StephF]

Dare I start a thread about another race weekend?
So who is going? We are going to try to finish thrashing the new A car for this one. I can't believe we are looking at September already.

[Dano77]

Appears as though the NER IT7 Dinosaur Super Series wil have ALL 9 competiters there this time. :dead_horse:


Dan

[Ed Funk]

Ah hell, may haveta un-register.

[RSTPerformance]

Ed- I believe a couple Audi's (one of ours with me behind the wheel) and several VW need a Honda to race with... I know I will enjoy running ITB with you unless you are afraid... I know with my "tank" I won't be be afraid of you no matter how dangerous you are, I will have a back-up car around the corner! lol

Anyway, are either of the funks planning to run B or are you in A for this race?

[RSTPerformance]

Dan- you need to get more IT7's... Looks like ITB and FV have the biggest car counts so far!!! Great to see the ITB field growing at NHMS!

Lime Rock generally has 4times the number if cars, the Runoffs could be very interesting!!! :). I predict 20+ in ITB alone :)

Raymond

[Dano77]

Finding more IT7 cars is easy, whos gonna drive them? The car that shall remain nameless is THE car to have for SCCA right now. What other chassis can run in 4 different race groups in different classes and remain competitive.

In theory you could run a single car and win four championships in a season. And pay HALF the entry fees, for 3 of those classes. Its a great opportunity that cars owners have. They have done a great marketing job on it. Why buy anything else? The development work is done. One phone call and you have what everyone else has. No secrets in there.

On the other hand, who is having more fun during the course of the weekend? Fun vs Rewards is what you need to evaluate.

Just a thought...

Dan

[ner88]

Hey Dan...the other side sucks! :D

You may be having fun but I get to have 4 times as much!:shrug:

[Dano77]

Just in case some people missed it,

https://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.advert/uidEvent/8A94BA8F-D554-D47B-BD8C591898A9AF88

[StephenB]

Dan... get the its car ready! Double dip is same driver not same car! :-)

, Stephen

[team-gpracing]

I didn't know that. I guess it makes sense. I just always assumed it had to be same driver and same car. Interesting.

[StephenB]

Nope and it never should be! That would be the day I honestly felt we were catering to the miatas. For now i want anyone that can afford to double dip including the miatas to double or triple dip to keep my entry down. But then we have the other thought that I wonder about... what if we had no double dip and just made every entry $275... would we have more than just 50 cars?

I don't have the stats but it feels like the double dip is actually driving my entry fee up...

Stephen

[StephenB]

In the spirit of being cheap I am going to be racing my buddy tim who has an ITS car with my ITR car on street tires in group 7 (STU) We are going to call our class RST (Racing & Street Tires). We came up with an easy formula that will increase the weight of my ITR car to compare in theory to an ITS car and then provided a "handicap" for using street tires. We would love to have anyone double dip with us and have some extra fun!

Here is a link to the rules we made up :) Its as simple as removing ballast or possible adding some. ITS cars need to do nothing but show up!
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showpost.php?p=349210&postcount=197

Stephen

PS: This is NOT a recognized SCCA class and just a gentlemens agreement class :)

[itracer]

We would love to have anyone double dip with us and have some extra fun!

How much weight are you guys going to add to your cars to match me and Raymond in ITB cars? :eclipsee_steering:

[StephenB]

hahah I did the math and you would need to REDUCE your weight 31% or so.... ya that will never happen :) I honestly don't think ITA cars could reduce the weight the amount they need to either but figured I would add them anyway... wish it was simpler to run us all together, but then again if it was they wouldn't have each IT class they have now.

Maybe I should run on FV tires... that may do the trick!

Stephen

[Matt M ITB]

Wow, I checked out your other posting and my head hurts from the math!! At whatever weight/tire combo works out, I'm sure your and I assume a certain silver ITS car will have fun!! Look forward to the RST Group Race!

[Tim Dugan]

so i show up sporting a "R" compound tire and stay the same weight :happy204: U show up sporting the 200tw and gain a few ponds this might actually be a fare fight! This will be a good test to your calculations. I kinda feel like a test dummy

[Tim Dugan]

i forgot to mention my "R" compound tires are from 2005 and there "kumold" this is gonna be fun!!!

[RSTPerformance]

hahah I did the math and you would need to REDUCE your weight 31% or so.... ya that will never happen :)

Stephen

Jason- I think we "could" reduce OUR weight 31% but I am not sure we could reduce our cars weight...

How about a 1lap bonus for us... Oh wait.. An Audi making it through the weekend in two groups = not likely ;)

Raymond

[itracer]

Jason- I think we "could" reduce OUR weight 31% but I am not sure we could reduce our cars weight...

Even removing the nut behind the wheel reduces it less that 10%. Still thinking of running STL though. You should bring the Red Audi and then you'll have a spare!

[Benauto]

STU/LTD has 4 running STU Cheap Date weekend. Were almost ITS (most run depowered racks) If its racing for fun or beer I would say you could get 4 more if you'd let us join in your reindeer games ?

[StephenB]

Anyone know who was outside turn 6 taking photos? Wondering if he/she got a better picture of me doing donuts after my STU win! :-)

I had a great weekend! Crazy to see so many little ones running around the paddock! Really cool to see them growing up with the SCCA family like so many of us did...

Stephen

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201195574345770&id=1062969071&set=a.1938932347328.2102699.1062969071&source=48&ref=m_notif&notif_t=photo_comment&__user=1062969071

[Greg Amy]

Wondering if he/she got a better picture of me doing donuts after my STU win!
Yet another explicit restriction that will be added to subsequent supplementary regulations...sigh...would suggest you should consider yourself lucky that Control can't see over in T6...just sayin'... - GA

[Dano77]

They can see it, dont worry. Dont ask why I know.

Regarding the kids, Oh My God. I counted at least 11 different ones all under the age of 10 riding around like mini Hells Angels. It was awesome to see it. Glad they all got along and had fun.

They are turning into a gang, we better be careful in a few years, we dont want some one to have an ACCIDENT, do we?

Why am I hearing the Godfather music???

[Greg Amy]

They can see it, dont worry. Dont ask why I know.
No they can't. You know how I know...

Kids all over the place, all off-leash. Isn't there a note in the supps you have to keep your kids on a leash and pick up after them...? Hope the track doesn't ban 'em again... ;) - GA

[Dano77]

Soooo If control cant see 6 then there should be no Contact papers for anything in 6. Nice........:smilie_pokal:

Says the former flagger who knows the sight lines. :rolleyes:


kidding.... KIDDING Dont get mad, its a funny!!!!:dead_horse:



Greg, Madison says she wants you to take care of her at the track from now on, cause you talk funny at night. HMMMMMM

[Greg Amy]

Soooo If control cant see 6 then there should be no Contact papers for anything in 6. Nice........:smilie_pokal:
There's a regular broadcast at the beginning of each session, saying things to F&C personnel like "session starting, please hold calls until after first lap except in case of emergency" stuff like that.

When the IT7 guys are on the track, we append to it "please pay close attention to the IT7 guys, and report all contact, and keep special close eyes on that blue car with the green markings. And the red one. And the other blue one. And the yellow one. And the other red one with white. And all the other ones, too. We'll give you free beer at end of day."

It's quite an effective motivator...


Madison says she wants you to take care of her at the track from now on, cause you talk funny at night.

We should record it. No wait, no we shouldn't.

- GA

[ner88]

Well, I for one am glad to hear the tower is responding to all the complaints! :023:

[StephF]

No they can't. You know how I know...

Kids all over the place, all off-leash. Isn't there a note in the supps you have to keep your kids on a leash and pick up after them...? Hope the track doesn't ban 'em again... ;) - GA

While the majority of them were fine, there were some who were the victims of apathetic parental control. I can tell you, it gets annoying having shit flying over your head and kids on scooters careening through your work space. Parents, play space shouldn't be in your neighbors paddock spot. Not everyone thinks your child is special.

[ner88]

Skates, skateboards and Scooters (push type) are not allowed at NHMS, adult or child.
As the person who takes the heat from track management I can tell you they will have no problem directing you to the exit :shrug:
Just sayin!

[Greg Amy]

Parents, play space shouldn't be in your neighbors paddock spot.
And, just because you're inside that fenced area at NHMS doesn't make it "safe". From the tower we watched a Formula Vee doing slow laps inside that "compound", I'm guessing bedding in brakes. He wasn't driving fast or unsafe, so we didn't sic Marilyn after him, but had a kid popped out into the road from in between the cars lined on the asphalt, it would have been an ugly situation...

The race track is simply not a fenced-in playground.

- GA

[Dano77]

Kids all over the place, all off-leash. Isn't there a note in the supps you have to keep your kids on a leash and pick up after them...? Hope the track doesn't ban 'em again... ;) - GA


From this comment we ended up taking a very bad turn. I assumed, apparently incorrectly, that this was meant as an off color joke.

It really does suck that a few are gonna ruin it for the many. WE, Jaime and I, took action regarding the issues over bicycles at the last event. Now they dont ride bikes during hot hours. Race cars = no Bikes. But I can only take responsability for my girls.

Now its starting to seem we need to bring temporary horse fences to keep them from possably coming in contact with anything at all. And padding for the ground where they took the grass off and laid out rocks. And maybe a sun cover so they dont get sun damage either. All in the name of the TRACK not yelling at us as a region for having a FAMILY oriented atmosphere. Soon we will need a family camping area and a paddock area and no one under 18 will be allowed near a car. they might burst into flames for crying out loud. And if it saves one child, isnt it all worth it.

Sorry for the rant, not sorry I bring my kids to grow up at the race track. Its where I grew up and hopefuly the sport will still be around when they have kids.

[ner88]

I'm trying to think of any track that allows kids on any kind of wheeled vehicle?
Back in the Betty days, the motorcoach area (fenced in area center of paddock) was the only kid area.

[StephF]

Dan, 98% of them were fine. I've never seen an issue with your kids. Unfortunately, we had a family nearby where dad basically ignored his kids. He was working on his race car while we (collective we) were stopping his kids from racing out into the roadway as cars were leaving impound.
They had a scooter (push type) that they were using inside the garage and on the grounds. Little kids, like 6 and 8, were weaving and pushing themselves all though the garage, around people's cars. Repeatedly. I was waiting for one of them to wipe out into someone's car. Dad ignored It.
Older sis was apparently in charge, but she really wasn't mature enough to do the job. She was ripping around on it too, and they were throwing balls all over the place, balls that kept bouncing into peoples spaces and off our stuff.
I am all for a family atmosphere at the track. But how do you propose we handle people like this? I really don't feel like having to be a hard ass all the time, especially when I am looking to concentrate on racing. And having to discipline other people's kids is not something you want ME to do...trust me on that. :rolleyes:

[Greg Amy]

WE, Jaime and I, took action...
I don't recall anyone making any comments about your kids specifically, nor do I recall any specific issues (though I recall you got accosted at the last event for stuff your kids maybe weren't responsible for?)

But in the end, just like vehicle compliance, it's something we have to handle amongst ourselves, lest someone handle it for us. Allow me a bit of a metaphor: I don't have kids but I have dogs, and I like to bring my dogs to the track and other public places. I also recognize that it's my responsibility to keep my dogs under control, out of danger, out of other peoples' way (who may not appreciate how special my dogs are - yet they are). I also understand it's my responsibility to "pick up after them".

But by the same token, I am very easily victimized by other people not taking that same stance. Unlike with kids, it's very easy for a track to simply declare "no pets at all" and I lose that opportunity, so I make a point of watching for other people to not follow the rules, and I will make it clear to them when they do not (and I will even "pick up" after them if they refuse to). And when that happens, I bring it to the attention of the folks in charge.

So, Dan, while you're a responsible parent, and while your kids may be much better behaved than others, it's in your best interest to bring the issues to the attention of other parent-competitors, or the authorities, lest the track decide to make changes. I am certainly not going to police them, because I don't have kids and I really don't have a vested interest in whether they're restricted or not (and, I expect you'd probably not pick up after my dogs if you saw me ignoring it...)

And in the end, it's a race track, not a playground.

Just food for thought.

I've gotten a couple PMs about the Turn 6 donuts, mostly asking "why was that a problem?" So I figured I'd respond publicly as well.

- We were trying to keep the pace of the weekend going (note how we beat the schedule quite handily both days?) so after the last car took the checkered for each session, and while victory laps were going on, Race Control was coordinating numerous other activities on the track to keep the flow going, including but not limited to:

-- Giving the Grid an "all clear" 5-minute warning to get the next group on track
-- Other victory laps
-- Re-positioning the pace car behind victory laps from the Pits back to the Grid
-- Workers cleaning/sweeping the track
-- Re-positioning wreckers, emergency/rescue vehicles, etc.

All of these activities are predicated on a base expectation of smooth, unobstructed, fully-in-control track flow during the cool-down and victory laps, and none of these activities are expecting to encounter a vehicle blocking the track.

Race Control cannot see over in Turn 6. I'm not aware that anyone called that activity in so as far as I know it was completely unknown to Race Control. However, had Race Control known that this was going to happen, or subsequently became aware of it as it was happening, we could have stopped all track activity (see above list) and waited for each victory lap to arrive back into the pits safely before we released the next one, then started that whole turnover process.

Hey, with some heads-up, the track coulda been all yours. ;)

Finally, I know that some cars were taking victory laps with unharnessed passengers inside...I'm hoping yours was not one of them. If we suspect that someone may do that, then we cannot allow passengers during victory laps.

Just some more food for thought.

GA, who notes that more and more supps are explicitly disallowing post-race hooning...

[Magical Trevor]

I was up in the tower with Greg Sunday and can verify that the donuts went unnoticed. I've seen that sort of thing as a corner worker before and sometimes personally find it a little cringeworthy (considering this is "just" amateur racing, potential safety risks, or the fact that you know "no SCCA steward would approve of that!" - though I don't think any of these things separately should be the sole reason not to do something with the club!). However, on the other side I can completely understand the motivation, especially for an end-of-season - and we all enjoyed seeing the RST family team getting together for a photo op in the Winners Circle.

Greg, I thought getting the crew guys in on the victory lap (and the victory lap itself) was pretty much an SCCA trademark? I see photos from the National Runoffs every year of such a thing, and while it is a little jarring to see guys with just their lower legs inside of a topless Prod car with one hand on a rollbar and the other on a checkered flag going around at moderate speed, once again it's a heartwarming, traditional thing. Not even NASCAR does victory laps anymore (but maybe we'll be inheriting their burnouts? ;) )

[Dano77]

Sorry about the rant, been a bad day. Phone calls about kid stuff at school as well. Blah Blah..... Again Sorry for the rant.

Steph, Im sorry that you were near some un responsable parenting. I do agree that people need to take care of thier own stuff. And we try very hard to do that on our part. In fact, My nephew will NOT be coming again until he can prove his attitude has changed and he can do what ANYONE of us tells him. Not just his dad.

Greg, You are correct, we did get spoken to about what my girls may or may not have been involved in on bicycles during the August event. Im not defending them at all. Every one I have ever spoken to has been told, if they are screwing up, you have permission to do what you feel is nessacary, take there stuff whatever. They know the rules.

Not going to comment on the donuts,

[StephenB]

I appreciate the comments about the donuts and will reconsider my actions next time, if it ever happens. It's not just my playground to play in... it's everyone's.

All comments are fully noted.

Stephen

[pfcs]

It's just part of transitioning to RWD.

[StephF]

Greg, you mentioned no unharnessed passengers on victory laps, is that something new? We've done them before with one of us just perched on the fuel cell. Obviously no harness there. But we had never heard you couldn't.
Is this at all venues? Or specific to NHMS?

[StephenB]

Greg, you mentioned no unharnessed passengers on victory laps, is that something new? We've done them before with one of us just perched on the fuel cell. Obviously no harness there. But we had never heard you couldn't.
Is this at all venues? Or specific to NHMS?

I think he is just pointing out the danger, not a requirement.

Stephen

[Greg Amy]

Greg, I thought getting the crew guys in on the victory lap (and the victory lap itself) was pretty much an SCCA trademark?


Greg, you mentioned no unharnessed passengers on victory laps, is that something new?

What Stephen said (thanks for your responses). I'm not saying we should disallow passengers on victory laps; on the contrary, I do that myself (and got in trouble for the way I did it at Road Atlanta*). What I am saying is that if we're going to allow/ignore "donuts" during victory laps, then we simply cannot allow unharnessed passengers inside the car for them.

- GA


* After the 2006 ARRC victory we piled a bunch of people in the car; I'm guessing at least 4-5, some of which were sitting inside the open hatch. I got "talked to" about having people inside the car with access doors open. I was told that had I closed the hatch I would have been fine, but they took umbrage at people hanging outside the car. They were actually discussing taking action against me...fortunately, we worked it out and I promised to stuff everyone inside the car in the future.


http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/arrc2006/IMG_4282_small.jpg (http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/arrc2006/IMG_4282.jpg)

(click for larger image; see how many you can count...)

[lateapex911]

What Stephen said (thanks for your responses). I'm not saying we should disallow passengers on victory laps; on the contrary, I do that myself (and got in trouble for the way I did it at Road Atlanta*). What I am saying is that if we're going to allow/ignore "donuts" during victory laps, then we simply cannot allow unharnessed passengers inside the car for them.

- GA


* After the 2006 ARRC victory we piled a bunch of people in the car; I'm guessing at least 4-5, some of which were sitting inside the open hatch. I got "talked to" about having people inside the car with access doors open. I was told that had I closed the hatch I would have been fine, but they took umbrage at people hanging outside the car. They were actually discussing taking action against me...fortunately, we worked it out and I promised to stuff everyone inside the car in the future.


http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/arrc2006/IMG_4282_small.jpg (http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/arrc2006/IMG_4282.jpg)

(click for larger image; see how many you can count...)


meh...no checkerd flag confiscated?? No suspension? Probation? Log book note? Red book entry?? Loss of win?
Then you didn't get in trouble. ;)

In your case, it's a good thing that was a FWD car, and had rather stiff springs in back!

I remember winning (As the crew chief) the Longest Day back in 83 (?) and cramming 6 people in a 1st gen RX-7. Rule was you lose the win if you return with less than you started with. (Same as yachting)

[Greg Amy]

meh...no checkerd flag confiscated?? No suspension? Probation? Log book note? Red book entry?? Loss of win?
Then you didn't get in trouble. ;)
The discussion seemed (to me) to be leaning toward some kind of race-changing result...I was in a bit of a panic and did a lot of head nodding and "yesser'ing"...

My photo above is a Tom Hoppe photo, and is one of my all-time favorites. But after we put that on the web, someone sent the below to me.

Eerie.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb345/GregAmy99/Racing/PLN79_zpsceb44eca.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/GregAmy99/media/Racing/PLN79_zpsceb44eca.jpg.html)

[Greg Amy]

So now that we've all talked about the party-pooper stuff, how about the good stuff? JB Swan collects the championship with solid drives this year, RT Performance takes a couple wins and pops gaskets over it ;), we had a good entry list for most groups (wing 'n things started 4 on Sunday, I think), only 1 protest the whole weekend, and everyone had a good time!

What else happened out there?

- GA

[Dano77]

The NER IT7 Dinosaur Super Series had a great weekend and Party on Saturday night. Lots of people from different teams showed up, including the LTD Miata guys. They never leave the safety of thier compound.

JB Swan and Ray Lee Chee tied for points, with GCR tiebreaker JB pulls it out.

There was also the heated battle for 3rd this season. Mike Bucella was picked to be untouchable due to the 77 car's race history so far this season. After Race 1 the tide was turning in favor of the 77. Sorry I messed up your carb Mike. With the 3 wins this weekend it appears that Dan Sheppard has moved to 3rd in points with a very slim margin.

Checkout the grid for Sunday am

Dave Patten in the Swamp Water Express #7 1:20:510
Ray Lee Chee 1:20:742
Dick Patullo 1:20:751
Dan Sheppard 1:20:772
Drew Young 1:20:775
JB Swan 1:20:779
Mike Bucella 1:25:889
Dosent get closer than that.

Great Weekend for all of us

[StephenB]

Tim and I tried the street tire thing but I couldn't stay up. 17.3 was my fastest but it just wasn't quick enough. I switched to old Hoosiers and had a lot of fun passing lots of cars, then missed a shift going up the hill... 1st instead of 3rd causing Matt a wild off course to avoid rear ending me! Thrilled that he was heads up and I can't thank him enough. I can't wait to see his video, I watched him all 4 wheels in the air passing me on the outside up the hill. After that I put my head down and passed all those cars again getting back to p2 overall. Not the overall I was looking for but fun non the less!

Ed drove my car in ITR and had some good runs and a scary spin in 3 but everyone escaped without any damage!

I got to watch some IT7 racing which was also a highlight as it always is at NHMS!

Everyone just seemed to be in great moods with lots of great racing and not many wrecked cars which was nice to see!

Stephen
Lots of kids creating great memories! Can't wait to start them all go carting! Thinking we should create an infield go cart autocross course for these youngsters!

[dickita15]

Checkout the grid for Sunday am

Dave Patten in the Swamp Water Express #7 1:20:510
Ray Lee Chee 1:20:742
Dick Patullo 1:20:751
Dan Sheppard 1:20:772
Drew Young 1:20:775
JB Swan 1:20:779
Mike Bucella 1:25:889
Dosent get closer than that.



I am just amazed that these old s**tboxes with their no talent drivers are so damn close.

[Dano77]

I am just amazed that these old s**tboxes with their no talent drivers are so damn close.


Its going to be a hell of a winter with all of us lyeing to each other about how fast we will be. " Just wait till next season, I am gonna do a 1:11:00 with my new un-obtanium shocks and better grabby Brakes."

Dan, Starting to compile my list of excuses now, Sheppard

[RSTPerformance]

For me, I had a great race Sunday AM with long time competitor and friend Tim Mullan, we both had our cars in places they shouldn't be on the track and raced side by side without contact, it can be done! Zack Kelly also proved to be a good challenger with lots of good side by side racing with no contact, watch for him in the coming years as he develops himself as front running a driver!

As for the families at the track, one of my favorite weekends ever. We learned out at Watkins Glenn earlier this year to just park away from the garages where you can spread out and give the kids the room they NEED to do there thing. You will never be able to keep them in one place, let them (and mom) have fun without the stress of cars zipping past (even the ones at 5mph). It would be nice to have an official "family" paddock area where everyone knows that kids will be running around getting to know one another. NER was/is where my family has always been away from reality of boring daily life!

Raymond

[MMiskoe]

First weekend I had been out since April, and it was some of the tightest racing I have seen in a while. Back in the day, I can remember 35 car fields for ITS/ITB and the top 15 spots would be separated by about 1.5 seconds. This weekend there was a grid for either ITS or STL that the top 8 places were less than 1 second. I lost out on a 2nd place finish in STL by 0.013 seconds. At the speed we were going, it was about 21". Another grid spot for me was picked up by being 0.004 seconds faster.

Yes, the ride up the berm at turn 5 was not on my bucket list, but it all worked out. No harm, no foul.

As for the kids, well, long ago I saw a sticker on a truck that said "families that race together stay together". I was glad to hear Bob Introne beat it into the driver's heads that there are a lot of kids around, pay attention. As it should be. My 2 sentence rant is this - when the folks wearing white give up their golf carts, it will be acceptable to ask the kids to give up their scooters and bikes. Until then, there will be all manners of people driving all manners of vehicles, some better than others, you must pay attention. Personally I don't see that kids on bikes are the root of the problem, I've watched plenty of adults walk out in front of oncoming cars.

[Tim Dugan]

OK i will say this is a race weekend to go down in the history books for me!! My first win and my second oh and a third! But there were not easy wins that is for sure. I fought tooth and nail for all of them the only way i wanna win is with a battle to remember. Matt and i battle lap after after lap and i couldnt seem to get that MIATA off my bumper. Thanks matt for making this one of the best race weekends! As fare as kids being at the track which seems like a major topic my kids will always be with me and my RST Performance crew! With out them the sport will die a slow death. They are the future of the club and they are the best cheering section a DAD could ask for! We all watch each others kids i want them to remember the track as a fun place to play and be on weekend. My kids in my eyes are a little to young to ride there bikes during racing hours but there are other kids that are older and are a little more observent as to what is going on around them. I hope the parents of the future of the club will make it there responsibility to choose when there kids are ready to be "alone" at the track. Hope to see everybody at Lime Rock.