July "Mohud at LRP" Thread... [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

webhound

06-27-2013, 01:02 PM

Thanks. Maybe the no pre-pay requirement will help?

Please note that we are in need of PDX instructors at this point! Instructors get their PDX track time for free, but please note that you have to work in exchange for that time ;). Two-seat cars and communicators are requested, but we may be able to make arrangements for instructors who have otherwise. Also, PDX passing rules are in effect for the PDX sessions, so point-by's are a must, and there is no passing late/at the apex.

Link to both registrations: http://mohud.motorsportreg.com/

Will

gran racing

06-27-2013, 02:06 PM

Wow, I'm really surprised that you're lacking instructors for this. Thought it would have been the opposite.

gran racing

06-27-2013, 06:01 PM

Is the motorsports reg attendance actually accurate? At a quick glance I didn't see any ITB cars. Odd.

StephF

06-27-2013, 06:52 PM

Maybe we will look at going there instead of WGI. It means a one day event for me, due to work obligations, but perhaps Ed can get down for both days at least.

I wish we didn't have so many events back to back at fun tracks but I guess better too many than too few.

gran racing

06-28-2013, 08:44 AM

But the Glen is just an awesome track beyond the event. I imagine Kessler will be going, I'm looking forward to hanging out with everyone there...

webhound

06-28-2013, 09:08 AM

Yes, the MSR registration numbers are correct.

Yes, we do need more instructors. I don't think we've exhausted our outreach to Club Racers yet. The majority of the need is in the Novice sessions, in which we need a 1:1 ratio of novices to instructors. We've had to hold back on novice spot confirmations for lack of enough instructors for those sessions at this point.

gran racing

06-28-2013, 12:11 PM

Wow, that absolutely should not be the case. Maybe the requirement of a communicator is holding people back? I agree it's very helpful, but maybe that should be taken off?

Ed Funk

06-30-2013, 12:52 PM

We're goin' to Watkins....reasons:
Only have to miss one day of work, none for Steph
MoHud has changed the group rotation from what the rest of NARRC has done, which
puts us in back to back groups, so one of us wouldn't be able to race.
Like WGI more.
Competition....no one registered in either of our classes at LRP.
One of us can enter the Pro IT.

RSTPerformance

07-01-2013, 01:01 AM

Stephen and I are sharing a car also... Heading to the Glen as they have the ProIT. The "extra" race looked appealing at Lime Rock but it was to much money for what it is. Would love an event that offered a discount for two drivers sharing one car in two classes... Not only would the Funks and us be happy but it might attract other people trying to make it on a budget :)

Raymond

lateapex911

07-01-2013, 01:03 AM

Too many races. Tough problem.....first world problem, but a thorny one for the regions. Darwin will have his say.

gran racing

07-05-2013, 07:49 AM

Damn, are there really only 78 entries to the event? I thought last time I looked it was much higher than that, but maybe I'm confused and that was for another event.

mossaidis

07-05-2013, 12:36 PM

77 entries plus 6 for the SSM and Others race, plus 65 entries for the PDX, which is probably 3/5 paying students. Still though, the numbers are far from impressive. I wonder what the break even point is.

webhound

07-05-2013, 12:48 PM

We also still need instructors. Right now we have novices signed up that we can't confirm, because we don't have an instructor for them.

gran racing

07-05-2013, 01:02 PM

I know that I've said it before but tell potential instructors that if they don't have a communicator, that is okay for this one event. The let the novices know this. It's helpful to have a communicator but not necessary to be safe and fun. We really can't afford to be turning away novices who want to do this. It'll be pretty sad if we do.

Not sure what breakeven is now, but it used to be close to $70k from what I recall. Majors is happening now at the Glen. Maybe people are waiting until that's over to see if the car survived then will register? But then again, Majors, then this LPR, then Glen regional all back-to-back. That's a lot.

webhound

07-05-2013, 01:28 PM

I don't think having a communicator is required.

Too many events, I agree.

gran racing

07-05-2013, 01:57 PM

On the sign area it had a note that all instructors must have an in car communicator.

mossaidis

07-05-2013, 01:58 PM

Communicators, I believe, are required. From PDX coordinator:

"I am not in favor of dropping the communicator requirement. Instructors do not need passenger seats though."

webhound

07-05-2013, 03:37 PM

I stand corrected, thanks.

StephF

07-07-2013, 08:59 AM

Well, change of plans. I just registered for LRP. Ed will sit it out, the groupings are too close together to run ITB and HP. We will both get to run at WGI the following weekend.
Just when you thought it was safe to go back on track at the Rock.....

mossaidis

07-09-2013, 10:46 AM

Just in case you didn't receive the email, here's the latest for the mohud at lrp story.

"The $213.00 SSM and Others Race has low entries. We have decided to reduce the entry fee to $150.00 and add qualifying on Friday afternoon. Also group 7 and 8 will be swapped allowing group 8 drivers a break before the bonus race. If you have already paid the $213.00 you will get a credit at registration. Online registration will be closing Tuesday evening, we will be accepting entries at registration before the event, no late fees. Final schedule will be available at registration. Thank You. Look forward to seeing you at the track."

mossaidis

07-09-2013, 11:18 AM

More details:

"Notice to all drivers racing in the John Stim Memorial Race July 12-13 at Lime Rock.

All group 1 cars will be moved to group 3 and group 1 will be eliminated. The new group 3 will run two additional laps. Group 2 will now be the first race group on track . The cars in groups 7 and 8 will be swapped. SPU will remain in group 7.

New Group 3
FA,FB,FC,FE,FF,FM.CFC,CSR,DSR,CF,S2,ASR,FS,FV,FST, F5,NCF

New Group7
SSM,SM2,STU,SPU

New Group 8
SRF Legends"

StephF

07-09-2013, 12:44 PM

Last I looked, 115 entries for the regional, and something like 6 for the "SM & others" group.
If they only have a handful, will they merge that into another group?

Jaffster

07-09-2013, 10:05 PM

Looking forward to the next race at the glen!

lateapex911

07-12-2013, 07:30 PM

Well, any news?? Q sheets?

gran racing

07-12-2013, 09:16 PM

Only 4 ITB cars; think they were in the mid 4s.

Ian was in low 1:00s but not YET in 59s.

I finally got some dry track time. Loving how the car handles. Although I'm constantly reminded with how SMs are in low 1:01s and I'm way off their pace in an ITA car. Another soon to be thread about that topic. Looking forward to getting more faith in the car. I'm really liking the handling!

Truly enjoying being in ITA. Spoke with several other drivers and while we'll race hard, certainly seems like we'll have a fun time with things. I'm psyched to be a part of it and totally looking forward to racing again. This is great as racing had gotten away from being fun for a bit there.

Andy Bettencourt

07-13-2013, 10:17 AM

I finally got some dry track time. Loving how the car handles. Although I'm constantly reminded with how SMs are in low 1:01s and I'm way off their pace in an ITA car. Another soon to be thread about that topic. Looking forward to getting more faith in the car. I'm really liking the handling!

Don't let it bug you. Real results searches will net a ton of low 1:02's, a few high 1:01's and one or two mid 1:01's. You roll up on a 1:02 flat in the ITA car and you are moving right along in position for a win.

Also don't sweat the different run groups as the track changes...go fast and have fun!!!

StephF

07-13-2013, 11:48 AM

Track is a bit slick in spots. Times across the board seem to be a bit off. Maybe from the rubber from last weeks ALMS race? They were better today than yesterday. G3 (FV and F5) had a rain shower come through. It has dried up since then. Hopefully no more showers for today.

gran racing

07-13-2013, 08:57 PM

Today was a day of mixed emotions. 1st race was pretty uneventful for me and without issues. 2nd race made up for the 1st. Most importantly I didn't see Christian when he went for a pass on the outside of the uphill after we encountered traffic. Honestly never even saw him or thought to look for him to be there. Totally my fault and while it caused a close call, fortunately he's good enough that nothing serious happened. Didn't even know it till post race. Looking forward to getting back out with Christian to redeem myself. Totally not how I'd intend things to happen or is like me.

Before that happened, 1st lap just after big bend many of us are two wide as usual. Well, driver on the side of me wacked me pretty good and off I went. Kept it going and re-entered. Steering wheel now off, shaking but car going straight.

Traffic was more than a challenge during this race. An STL (SM) Miata who I spoke with before start on grid about us being in different classes and if I got him on the start, I'd let him go by but to wait till the time was right forgot that whole discussion. After fiercely battling me and completely slowing me up yet not either checking out or letting me go, he gave me a big thumbs up after the race. I wasn't as happy. We talked later on and that went well.

While I always want to discuss these incidents, I thought the contact impound was wonderful to force it and make it easier to find people. The Big Bend Miata driver turned out to be in his 2nd race. A learning experience for him and we exchanged e-mails.

On a more positive note, got to see some old friends, met some new ones, and was reminded what an awesome community Club Racing is about. There's so much of the "pay it forward" attitude among us, it's truly fantastic. Even the guys I had incidents with, in the end things ended on a positive note overall. Shit happens in racing, people obviously including myself make mistakes... I am starting to feel more and more comfortable with the new car and glad I got some dry track time. Best handling car I've driven. Soooo badly want to get back out at LRP and pick up where I left off.

Now to find a shop to look at the car. Tough as the Glen is just next weekend and I don't know what parts will be needed. Kessler is just a bit swamped... Hope I can make it!

StephF

07-14-2013, 10:40 AM

Our race group had quite a bit of action in the second race, including a get together I had with Tom O'Conner. Just one of those racing things. We both felt bad about it, we just got caught up in crap from having a car go off at three (Dan D maybe? Looked like his car)

I've been having an issue with my Go Pro. It filmed the first two on track session, but the second race it shows the data is there, but when I ask it to open and play, it gives me the error message that "Quick time does not understand this file format". I tried opening it in Windows media player and Windows movie maker, with no luck. This happened before.

Any suggestions on how to open it? And do you think maybe this camera has a glitch in it? It's the Hero 2. We've had issues in the past with it shutting itself off minutes into it, or not starting. I am not sure if it is the camera or me. Everyone else seems to get theirs to work routinely. It's hit or miss with ours. Is anyone running the new gen Gro Pro? Are they worth the money?

Greg Amy

07-14-2013, 10:57 AM

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html

StephF

07-14-2013, 11:14 AM

Thank you Greg!

JeffYoung

07-14-2013, 01:16 PM

How did our Southern Export Munnerlyn do in ITS? And why isn't this race on Race Monitor?

awegrzyn

07-14-2013, 03:15 PM

I've been having an issue with my Go Pro. It filmed the first two on track session, but the second race it shows the data is there, but when I ask it to open and play, it gives me the error message that "Quick time does not understand this file format". I tried opening it in Windows media player and Windows movie maker, with no luck. This happened before.

Either you have a corrupted file, or you don't have the codec to play the file. In case you can open other files from the same camera on the same PC, it means you have a corrupted file. Those files can be fixed. There are programs out there that fix corrupted video files.

Very often Go Pro will corrupt the file if the movie is stopped by turning OFF the camera, or running out of battery.

wepsbee

07-14-2013, 06:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs1sQM6QE_A

I do not have mine or Chris's up yet but check at 8 min and 13:30
Chris's video is from behind me.
Let me know what you all think

Thanks
Dan

Ed Funk

07-14-2013, 08:23 PM

Looks like the rumbles at the exit of 2 are a bad place to drive.

StephF

07-14-2013, 08:25 PM

Either you have a corrupted file, or you don't have the codec to play the file. In case you can open other files from the same camera on the same PC, it means you have a corrupted file. Those files can be fixed. There are programs out there that fix corrupted video files.

Very often Go Pro will corrupt the file if the movie is stopped by turning OFF the camera, or running out of battery.

I can open the other two files, so it must be corrupted. I tried the program Greg linked to and it didn't work. Thank you.
Any recommendations on which programs work well to fix it?

Dan: just watched the video. All I can say is holee sheet.

gran racing

07-14-2013, 09:22 PM

Will be interesting to watch Christian's video. My in-car video shows another side where I'm honestly not so sure that I'd do anything differently. Yes, perspectives can change when from another car. I totally get that but it's not as blatant as I was expecting based on our conversation. Could very well be from your point of view and I'd rather sacrifice a turn or win versus any bad feelings (talking ITA and how it's about fun not some PRO BS). Uploading my vid to YouTube...

lawtonglenn

07-14-2013, 10:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs1sQM6QE_A

I do not have mine or Chris's up yet but check at 8 min and 13:30
Chris's video is from behind me.
Let me know what you all think

Thanks
Dan

Dan, when do you think you will have yours and Chris' videos up? They should be most interesting to watch.

Do you want comments based on only the MGB's video? Looks like since he is in a Prod car, and only 1950lbs
he can get that thing around corners a hell of a lot better than cars at IT weight... and he rides the
edge of adhesion regularly at corner exit

Since he doesn't have much motor compared to you, it would be unlikely for him to be able to take you on
the straight, so a pass in the braking zone is most reasonable and is to be expected. He went inside in big bend,
and managed to stay on the track, so had the pass well executed, was working hard to keep it on pavement at
trackout, and then you hit him hard in his right rear corner, spinning him, and driving over his hood.

What do you think happened?

cchandler

07-14-2013, 10:12 PM

Dave,

No video, and no hard feelings. You ran a good race and the better driver won. Hopefully, the next time we race, you'll get to see the back of my car!! :eclipsee_steering:

gran racing

07-14-2013, 10:30 PM

No, it's not about whose wrong or right. Honestly if you feel I did something wrong I want to discuss it. The silly flag or trophy is just that. (This discussion would be very different among other outside situations).

lawtonglenn

07-14-2013, 10:33 PM

How did our Southern Export Munnerlyn do in ITS? And why isn't this race on Race Monitor?

I see it on Race Monitor "2013 John Stim MoHud Regional"

Group 6 Race 1

ITR Prout 1:00.5
ITR Breault 1:01.1
ITS Capizzi 1:01.8
ITS Farbman 1:01.6
ITR Harrison 1:02.2
ITS Munnerlyn 1:02.9
ITS Stadelmann 1:04.0
ITB Washay 1:03.6
ITS Bennett 1:03.5
ITB Wentworth 1:03.4
ITS Omichinski 1:03.4
ITB Hall 1:06.1
ITB Suppa 1:05.7

Group 6 Race 2

ITR Prout 1:01.0
ITR Breault 1:01.7
ITS Farbman 1:02.4
ITS Capizzi 1:02.3
ITS Munnerlyn 1:03.4
ITR Harrison 1:02.6
ITS Omichinski 1:04.0
ITB Washay 1:03.8
ITS Stadelmann 1:04.0
ITS Bennett 1:03.7
ITB Wentworth 1:03.8
ITB Hall 1:05.7
ITB Suppa 1:11.9

RSTPerformance

07-15-2013, 12:46 AM

Wowser... Who said prod guys are not racers? Not as aggressive as some others I have seen and generally safe (didn't make passes he couldn't stick) and never "forced it." With that said though I bet less than 50% of the people here would go three wide into big bend and I bet 75% would have stoped after the first hit to be sure the car was ok/safe to drive.

To bad he couldn't hold it in the exit of Big Bend. Not so sure he was hit before loosing it so without interviews it most likely is a racing incident from that view... Although the prod car would be at fault if he wasn't hit, if he was hit then it is Dan's fault.

Raymond

StephF

07-15-2013, 06:19 AM

If you watch the earlier spin in the same spot when he was alone, he hits that curb and it flings him across the track.
The crash looked like he did the same thing, hit the curb and went sideways in front of Dan. I will bet that Dan never hit him at all.

lawtonglenn

07-15-2013, 07:17 AM

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 08:26 AM

Well I thought at track out we would both gradually straighten and come back drivers right and set up for the left hander. My impression is that if we both gave time for the cars to straighten and come right again we would have been fine. It seems as if his car came right suddenly and I hit him front right corner and drove over his fender. His video shows alot of sudden right turning motions with his steering wheel. I think a second more of track out would have been better for all.
Damage to the car so far is a bent right trailing arm, bent spindle, upper control arm, flattened and bent front crossmember and possibly a bent wheel. Thats it so far.
Really thought we had that corner. He was way around me but loose and on the edge, this is the perspective from my seat, but then he must have checked up some and came right because all of a sudden there he was in front of me. I suppose in hindsight I could have tried to slow some and let it go but the cars in that turn at that time are in a condition that really prohibit any sudden changes to braking or steering. Once committed you must track out and come back right.
Thats how it looks to me. I will try to get my video up soon. Havent posted a video before so a learning curve will be complicating matters there. Hey Chris can you post your video when you get a sec?

Greg Amy

07-15-2013, 08:51 AM

I reserve final judgement until I see the other perspectives, but my initial impression was similar to Glenn's. Assuming you did not touch him, causing the oversteer, going inside him coming through T2 (which is why he missed the second apex?) was aggressive and bit a of a chancy move; as you discovered, any errors on his part would result in what we saw.

Ain't sayin' I would have done it any differently; probably would have. But this is kinda lookin' like "one of those racing things". - GA

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 10:22 AM

Ok, so I should have possibly stayed more outside, slowed and allowed things to settle out rather than try and stay on the apex inside line?

RSTPerformance

07-15-2013, 10:42 AM

Ok, so I should have possibly stayed more outside, slowed and allowed things to settle out rather than try and stay on the apex inside line?

From this video and what you have said I don't think you should have done anything different... correct place, wrong time :rolleyes:

Just think, the guy that won (Dave?) got a cool trophy... you got a flight, very cool highlight video, and a memory that will last foever!

Really though, it could have been a lot worse, glad damage to your car was minimal.

Raymond

webhound

07-15-2013, 10:52 AM

What did everyone think of the PDX that was integrated on Friday? I know a few of you instructed in that, how did that go?

I only ran the PDX, I was in the baby blue EF Civic, labeled as an ITB car, but it's really an ITA (lite) car, on street tires. I was impressed with the speed of you quick guys out there in real ITA/SM cars, including Dave and Mickey/Tom.

Now a longshot, I lost a pair of prescription sunglasses Friday afternoon, down by the FOM hauler. Anyone find something like this?

Will

Greg Amy

07-15-2013, 10:52 AM

Ok, so I should have possibly stayed more outside, slowed and allowed things to settle out rather than try and stay on the apex inside line?
:shrug: It's one of those calls. Had you continued to give him 1.01 MGB widths ("universal standard widths") of room and he didn't lose the car, nothing probably would have happened. But - truly unfortunately - that series of events didn't happen... - GA

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 10:54 AM

From this video and what you have said I don't think you should have done anything different... correct place, wrong time :rolleyes:

Just think, the guy that won (Dave?) got a cool trophy... you got a flight, very cool highlight video, and a memory that will last foever!

Really though, it could have been a lot worse, glad damage to your car was minimal.

Raymond
LOL Good point but not what I was looking for:rolleyes:

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 10:59 AM

:shrug: It's one of those calls. Had you continued to give him 1.01 MGB widths ("universal standard widths") of room and he didn't lose the car, nothing probably would have happened. But - truly unfortunately - that series of events didn't happen... - GA
Yup, well live and learn I guess. Will have to try and re-evaluate the line through there and see if a more outside line would help in these situations rather than the standard double apex. Could be the issue I guess.
But anyway I wish to thank everyone for the input. I do care how I race and do not want
to be a dangerous driver to the community.

ner88

07-15-2013, 12:30 PM

I guess I have to ask "WHY"?
It was well into the race, neither car had anything to gain by fighting for position and certainly no reason to make that pass.........:shrug:
AND...two wrecked cars...

gran racing

07-15-2013, 02:09 PM

The uphill portion of the race that I referenced with Christian is at the 6:02 mark. The first lap had action too as did several others.

Link to video in case below doesn't show as it didn't on my computer:
http://youtu.be/GODg-7-AhgI

http://youtu.be/GODg-7-AhgI

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 03:27 PM

I guess I have to ask "WHY"?
It was well into the race, neither car had anything to gain by fighting for position and certainly no reason to make that pass.........:shrug:
AND...two wrecked cars...
Good point. Caution would have been better.

Ed Funk

07-15-2013, 03:30 PM

Dan, were you racing with Chris or lapping him?

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 03:46 PM

Racing him, Just got around/let me around him!!!
Unusual for that to happen:rolleyes:

JLawton

07-15-2013, 04:31 PM

lateapex911

07-15-2013, 06:41 PM

If I was Dan i would have been trying to pass him too. Laurent was obviously having some handling issues and if Dan could have sperated himself from Chris by passing Laurent, I call that race craft.

It's one of those cases of "shit happens". Dan has had some bad luck!! But it was also Laurent that got run over a few years back by a Miata. Very scarey as he was unconcious for a few minutes. Either one of those incidents would convince me that running a full cage is the way to go!!

Hey Jeff, how's your ankle doing?? You know, the one you hurt when you put your (cageless) motorcycle down exiting 3 at NHMS?

(Damn, that was soo easy!)

Dan, The MG started from the back, and passed once. Then he went off, and was passing a second time. If it were ME, I don't THINK I would have contested the pass.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but it looked like his car changed after his earlier brush, and was very oversteery.

Watching the video, I was very surprised when I saw you on top of him. I ran it back in my mind: MG made aggressive move in 1, and had too much speed which carried him wide. I assumed he missed the second apex at BB (2) because he was too wide, but tried to carry too much speed and wound up wide. Then I GUESSED he got off the throttle to avoid a repeat visit, and you were close behind and ran over him.

I had no idea you had maintained an inside presence.

If it were me: (Big if)
-because he was passing me for the second time, and because he was clearly lapping faster (in order to pass me again), and because he's not in my class, and because I don't want to fill my mirrors with this tiny MG that WILL be looking for a sliver of a chance to get by, i would have let him go. I wouldn't have thought that he would have run interference for me for long, so i don't see the benefit in terms of protection...he would be more of a distraction.

Andy Bettencourt

07-15-2013, 07:21 PM

I like to reply before I see other thoughts just to get my initial impressions on paper. The contact...it would seem that the first incident caused some 'looseness' with the camera car, maybe due to the contact with the wall. Even at less-than-10/10ths in the down-hill, he was fighting oversteer.

Then during the aggressive pass, he fights it through T1-T2...but I see him WAY outside at the exit of 2 - yet you still run up over him...so my though is that as he lifted to regain control, you were right on his bumper and were under power...and that resulted in contact.

gran racing

07-15-2013, 07:24 PM

I'm also open to thoughts on the uphill Christian deal.

lateapex911

07-15-2013, 08:12 PM

Dano77

07-15-2013, 08:21 PM

Dave'

What was the Uphill Christian deal. I saw nothing I didnt expect to see other than you made a gutsy move down the inside for the uphill and passed a competiter and stuck him with a lapped car between you both.Dont know if I would have tried it, unless it was Gulick/ Lee Chee I was passing, Great Move.

Maybe I missed the deal you speak of.

Damn nice car, hope you enjoy it and bring it to NHMS so we can see it.

Dan'

Ummmm maybe discreation in Big Bend might have worked better. Just let him go. Give it a lift and let him get away, hes certainly faster. As evidenced by the fact he caught you twice. Live and Learn.

lateapex911

07-15-2013, 09:01 PM

wepsbee

07-15-2013, 09:29 PM

Hey Jeff, how's your ankle doing?? You know, the one you hurt when you put your (cageless) motorcycle down exiting 3 at NHMS?

(Damn, that was soo easy!)

Dan, The MG started from the back, and passed once. Then he went off, and was passing a second time. If it were ME, I don't THINK I would have contested the pass.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but it looked like his car changed after his earlier brush, and was very oversteery.

Watching the video, I was very surprised when I saw you on top of him. I ran it back in my mind: MG made aggressive move in 1, and had too much speed which carried him wide. I assumed he missed the second apex at BB (2) because he was too wide, but tried to carry too much speed and wound up wide. Then I GUESSED he got off the throttle to avoid a repeat visit, and you were close behind and ran over him.

I had no idea you had maintained an inside presence.

If it were me: (Big if)
-because he was passing me for the second time, and because he was clearly lapping faster (in order to pass me again), and because he's not in my class, and because I don't want to fill my mirrors with this tiny MG that WILL be looking for a sliver of a chance to get by, i would have let him go. I wouldn't have thought that he would have run interference for me for long, so i don't see the benefit in terms of protection...he would be more of a distraction.

I like to reply before I see other thoughts just to get my initial impressions on paper. The contact...it would seem that the first incident caused some 'looseness' with the camera car, maybe due to the contact with the wall. Even at less-than-10/10ths in the down-hill, he was fighting oversteer.

Then during the aggressive pass, he fights it through T1-T2...but I see him WAY outside at the exit of 2 - yet you still run up over him...so my though is that as he lifted to regain control, you were right on his bumper and were under power...and that resulted in contact.
Bear in mind I had just passed chris, no small feat, and wanted to stay there, checking up enough to stay on the drivers right of the turn would also have allowed Chris to pull right back around however I do see the point though of discretion. I did think we would both just track out though, I did not expect him to come right at that point.

gran racing

07-15-2013, 09:44 PM

other than you made a gutsy move down the inside for the uphill and passed a competiter and stuck him with a lapped car between youI admit, I'm not sure how often I would have attempted that pass again. I was pretty pissed off where I was and how much I kept getting slowed down. The cars in front were in different classes. (Both cars being passed in that section.) The green Miata... I spoke with on false grid and told him that if I got in front of him during the start and he was faster, I'd find a good place to let him by. He was appreciative. After the race he had forgotten we were not in the same class. We chatted and things are good now but wtf.

Jake and others, here's the link. The uphill issue can be seen starting at the 6:02 mark.

http://youtu.be/GODg-7-AhgI

lateapex911

07-15-2013, 10:38 PM

Bear in mind I had just passed chris, no small feat, and wanted to stay there, checking up enough to stay on the drivers right of the turn would also have allowed Chris to pull right back around however I do see the point though of discretion. I did think we would both just track out though, I did not expect him to come right at that point.

Haha, just ask Ahbi about passign Chris! Kidding KIDDING Chris! (Chris if you're reading you handled that situation brilliantly.)
Hey, it's racing. Each of us SHOULD be trying hard..should be at our personal 'edge'.
The successful guys know where the edge is and where you can and where you can't go over.
Sometimes you have to ease back. Risk/reward ratio and all that. Dan, I think you've been very open minded in this, and thats great. What if I suggested that you ease back a bit in the second half of Big Bend, falling behind the MG, and then protect your position by staying left-ish in the short chute to the left hander, so Chris couldn't squeeze in?? Let him get an overlap to your right. I doubt he could hold it enough to be effective come the right hander onto No Name.
The main thing you want out of the left hander is to get your turn in on the edge of the track after the late apex so you can set up for No Name. Going in a bit tight shouldn't cost you the ability to do that, will protect your position, and costs just a tad of lap time. Or am I misunderstanding the dynamics/positioning of the situation??

(All of that assumes Mr MG would have either spun off drivers right, or tank slapped a bit using significant track width, mostly to the right, and that you'd be in a position to react and stay clear)

lateapex911

07-15-2013, 11:16 PM

I admit, I'm not sure how often I would have attempted that pass again. I was pretty pissed off where I was and how much I kept getting slowed down. The cars in front were in different classes. (Both cars being passed in that section.) The green Miata... I spoke with on false grid and told him that if I got in front of him during the start and he was faster, I'd find a good place to let him by. He was appreciative. After the race he had forgotten we were not in the same class. We chatted and things are good now but wtf.

Jake and others, here's the link. The uphill issue can be seen starting at the 6:02 mark.

http://youtu.be/GODg-7-AhgI

Wow, that is REALLY tough to see. Looks like there was a car (Chris) sorta outside approaching the turn in point of the uphill. I'd love to see another view.

Now the Miata on the exit of Big Bend, yea, did not leave racing room. This isn't NASA where you can push a guy 25% off track and thats within the rules.

cchandler

07-15-2013, 11:28 PM

Dave,

This photo is at 6:00 on your in car video. As you can see, my nose is forward of your eyes. For the next 12 seconds I was next to you, on the left. although admittedly not always that far forward. At 6:12, I drop back as I've been forced 4 off and was trying not to crash. If you look at your mirror, you will see the same relative car position at 6:00 and 6:12.

Incidentally, at 6:12, we are at the "3 marker." If I wasn't already next to you, I would certainly not have been trying to pass, in the grass, on the outside, with only five feet of room. I was stuck there and unable to move right until I gingerly lifted, slowed and drove back on track.

Why didn't I just slow earlier and drop back?
I thought that you would leave me racing room on your left.

My intention was not to pass you prior to the uphill, only to gain an angle and radius advantage in the turn, and, maybe, get a run on you. We qualified about 1/10th apart so the only way I was getting around you was by using a tactical advantage, never on speed alone.

mossaidis

07-16-2013, 06:38 AM

I don't have video from Mohud LRP event cause I left my memory card at home.

During the June NER LRP event, the blue MG (the one that made contact with Dan) seemed squirrelly at mid-corner and when putting power down during track out. Old Tires? Stiff rear Suspension? (shrug) It made it frustrating for me for sure. It slowed me down yet when Dowie's GTL was in his rear view mirror he seemed to pick up the pace. Odd.

https://vimeo.com/69186117 (around 6:00-)

At the July LRP event...

1) I was behind Dave Gran when he and the black/red pin strip STL Miata made contact repeatedly out of turn 2. 3 wide at mid-corner and coming out of that turn is not a good idea at full race tilt. It seemed it was a case of Dave being run off track by a driver that either didn't know he was there and/or could not go anywhere due to traffic on his right and in front of him.

2) I was behind Dave and Christian when they ALMOST made contact at the latter point during no-name.

3) The same green STL Miata that was interfering with Dave's race in the PM, I had to deal with during the AM race. Same deal... very frustrating since the driver seemed to prefer blocking me instead of running at race pace and/or keeping to his race line. We almost made contact in no name after he messed up left hander and hence the right hander which slowed him down on no name and allowed me to try an outside pass. Instead of driving his line, he decided to just dive bomb me on the outside... BLOCK! We had some friendly words between races but the message clearly didn't get through.

Knestis

07-16-2013, 07:54 AM

At that 6:00 mark, the camera car and the red Acura are setting up for a right hand corner. Gran had moved left to go around the Miata-in-the-way before the Acura's nose got stuck in where it's show in the still above, a second or so earlier. The Acura's nose is visible in both the mirror and behind the camera car's seat, so it's easy to tell relative position at any point.

All of that looks like the Acura tried to take advantage (quite reasonably) of Gran getting bottled up behind the Miata, with what would be an outside pass into a 3-wide situation once it actually started. Gran had gotten out of the Miata trap before that pass started - albeit just immediately before - but the Acura drive put himself in a pretty tenuous position.

Now, if Gran actually moved LEFT after clearing the Miata and run the Acura out of track, that would have been a foul. But he didn't, as he was headed for the apex of the right-hander, leaving an increasing amount of room for the Acura. At that point, however, I'll bet the Acura was feathering it having discovered he had too much speed to hang there.

It was CLOSE all around, but that's what video let's us do - parse what happens down to bits of less than a second. Ultimately though, that was some pretty damned good racing.

Gran's pass later on was another opportunistic move into a tight spot, that in this case worked out fine. I can picture similar experience in my inner in-car brain-camera from years ago, where a hole opened - often because of a pick on a lapper - and I pounced. That's kind of an example of why we do this game.

K

cchandler

07-16-2013, 09:00 AM

BMW, not Acura, and yes, he moved left (to the edge of the track) AFTER we both cleared the white Miata and while I was positioned to his left. I was to his left, right up to the point (6:12 on Dave's video) where there was only Armco, and little grass left,and I had to lift to avoid crashing. I hadnt "feathered" and was flat in 4th gear and expecting I would have 5 feet of track. I had a WTF thought when Dave kept moving over and squeezing me off the track. Dave admitted that he didn't see me there so it wasn't malicious intent. No car damage or injuries, so I'm happy, but it was a "moment."

I'm not against blocking to prevent a car from advancing. However, once a car is even one foot beside another car, racing room should be given, at least on a straight. Being taken to the wall, or onto the grass, is ungentlemanly and too dangerous for Club racing. I'll race my modified with the NASCAR crowd when I want that thrill. Car position and yielding for corners is a whole different discussion which has been thoroughly hashed over on previous threads.

wepsbee

07-16-2013, 09:47 AM

Haha, just ask Ahbi about passign Chris! Kidding KIDDING Chris! (Chris if you're reading you handled that situation brilliantly.)
Hey, it's racing. Each of us SHOULD be trying hard..should be at our personal 'edge'.
The successful guys know where the edge is and where you can and where you can't go over.
Sometimes you have to ease back. Risk/reward ratio and all that. Dan, I think you've been very open minded in this, and thats great. What if I suggested that you ease back a bit in the second half of Big Bend, falling behind the MG, and then protect your position by staying left-ish in the short chute to the left hander, so Chris couldn't squeeze in?? Let him get an overlap to your right. I doubt he could hold it enough to be effective come the right hander onto No Name.
The main thing you want out of the left hander is to get your turn in on the edge of the track after the late apex so you can set up for No Name. Going in a bit tight shouldn't cost you the ability to do that, will protect your position, and costs just a tad of lap time. Or am I misunderstanding the dynamics/positioning of the situation??

(All of that assumes Mr MG would have either spun off drivers right, or tank slapped a bit using significant track width, mostly to the right, and that you'd be in a position to react and stay clear)
Yup, Yup and yup. I agree that sounds now like the way to go. At the time I really thought given the speed at which he passed me there was no way him and I would meet at the track out spot of that turn. I fully expected him to be ahead there. As I am coming around T2 I was holding on to the car looking down track. He was along side now and not a good spot to apply the brakes, I did of course left at that time a bit but.....I held it straight expecting us both to head down track for a bit and trend right for the lefthander setup with him now on the inside.

gran racing

07-16-2013, 11:05 AM

I'm not against blocking to prevent a car from advancing. However, once a car is even one foot beside another car, racing room should be given, at least on a straight

I am against blocking. Making it difficult and not just giving it away is different. And yes, I agree racing room should always be given even if it's just enough.

My car is at a shop and have a $700 bill plus some needed parts from the Big Bend deal. I hate that, it's not fun, can't afford it.... I'm out to race hard, have fun, and enjoy hanging out with friends.

lateapex911

07-16-2013, 02:26 PM

In the greater scope and the bigger picture, I think it's important to define "blocking, so everyone is on the same page.

Typically, you are blocking if you move your car in a mirror manner to keep a faster car behind. If you the lead car chose to drive down the inside of the straight and the braking area, and you hold that line, allowing a following driver the rest of the track, and if he gains an overlap, you do not move over on him forcing him off the road, then you are not 'blocking'. (In my estimation)

But, move to the right into the T1 braking area at LRP, then when the following car goes to the left to gain ground, and you move left? You're a blockhead.
;)

(Now, I've come up on a lapper, (A NEon), and had him dive to the inside every time I'd go to the inside to outbrake him. After the race I called him a blocking MF-er. (Not to his face, he wasn't in impound, LOL!) Technically I was wrong. He was a defensive MF-er. But, if you are getting lapped, and it's not an enduro and you're not 'on pace", you've been caught for a reason. Don't be a dick holding back a guy in a lower class, whether it's technically blocking or not.)

Knestis

07-16-2013, 05:22 PM

The "one move" rule is good guidance. Dario F almost fell afoul of this at the Toronto Indycar race this past weekend. It was DAMNED close but he didn't get dinged after the steward types changed their minds.

K

Dano77

07-16-2013, 09:06 PM

Oh yeah, there is a car out there. Oooops.

Not going to get in this fight. Very iffy here on whos doing what to whom.

Dan 77 IT7

mossaidis

07-16-2013, 11:21 PM

I am starting to think Christian likes "playing" on the grass... :)

http://www.puckstopperphotography.com/p540360285/h6124202f#h60e1141e

StephF

07-17-2013, 06:27 AM

Yeah. That was a crappy moment. Miata to my right was wandering down across the track at me and I was watching her and moved with her to keep clear of contact with her when suddenly there was Christian to my left. My fault that I fixated on the car coming across and totally missed him coming through like that. He was a rocket ship.
Sorry again Christian. :(

cchandler

07-17-2013, 09:13 AM

No worries Steph. I saw you getting the squeeze from the Miata and moved over. Also, you tried to give me some room during the pass. Not so much with the other, very cool BTW, pics of me in the grass next to Dave.

Dave Gran, after seeing pics 51-55 at puckstopperphotography.com, do you still want to say you never saw me??!! wink & smile :-)

gran racing

07-17-2013, 10:31 AM

After the race at impound after hearing the predicament you were put in caused by me, I apologized profusely and wanted to discuss the situation. I went as far as sincerely offering to disqualify myself from the race, thus awarding you the win without going through the protest process or even seeing my in-car video or anyone else’s. Based on this do you really think a win is really that important to me where I’d purposefully put you in a dangerous situation? While the various checkered flags and trophies in my garage are neat, I care much more about all the friends and awesome memories I’ve had along the way.

You asked to see my in-car video; just as I asked to see yours. I do think my in-car shows yet another perspective. Regardless of anything, you went off and I do feel bad about that. If you feel that I saw you and it was malicious at this stage, there’s nothing I can do about that.

I do feel that these discussions are great learning opportunities for not only us but others here.

raffaelli

07-17-2013, 01:56 PM

Sorry I am late to the party with the video.

I had nothing for anyone this weekend, issues with the car, but more so with the driver. Dan was earning back his spot which I took the start. He was passing for position. I did not contest it because I was like a stone and he would have passed me eventually so I let the pass happen on my terms by easing up on the straight and hanging a bit deep into the braking zone into turn 1.

I never saw the blue car until he popped out in front of Dan mid turn. I was surprised to see him. Makes me wonder what would have happened if I tried to defend my position and keep Dan behind me.

Throughout the weekend I knew the blue car was loose after seeing a few wobbles and a trip through the grass in front of me in the same spot as this incident.

With that in mind, when I saw the blue car hot in the turn, out in the marbles, I decided to hang back a bit and let them get through the turn, glad I did.

http://youtu.be/2QY6GmrIAEc

http://youtu.be/2QY6GmrIAEc

raffaelli

07-17-2013, 02:02 PM

Haha, just ask Ahbi about passign Chris! Kidding KIDDING Chris! (Chris if you're reading you handled that situation brilliantly.)

Ouch buddy!

Its all good. LOL.

I learned, shook Ahbi's hand this weekend, guess I wont be 'over it' till I see Ahbi in a car again.

Abhi

07-18-2013, 11:44 PM

Ouch buddy!

Its all good. LOL.

I learned, shook Ahbi's hand this weekend, guess I wont be 'over it' till I see Ahbi in a car again.

And Matt Kessler finished the car and I am here at the Glen today :eclipsee_steering:

It looks like hell but it runs.

Abhi

Dano77

07-19-2013, 09:04 AM

Looks dont make the car fast,

Dan

Andy Bettencourt

07-19-2013, 09:34 AM

Looks dont make the car fast,

Dan

'Looks like shit and goes like Hell' is all good. Some of us prefer both. :)

<--- Been searching the country for a nice IT7 for fun.

Greg Amy

07-19-2013, 09:34 AM

<--- Been searching the country for a nice IT7 for fun.
...and the snowball continues to roll downhill...

dpc

07-19-2013, 09:51 AM

are they all 12A's

Dano77

07-19-2013, 09:59 AM

You have to apply and bring 15 letters of recomendation, notarized in triplicate, and be approved by a commitee of your peers. Then we might allow you the privalige of "Borrowing" an IT7 car.

After succesfully completeing the initiation phase, you will then be allowed to look at IT7 cars in the area. you cant buy them yet as they need to be offered to the members in good standing first, after that they will be offered to new members.

After purchase, you will need to fetch us beers forever and then you can race us.

Sound good Andy?

Greg, we decided you need one more race to prove your mettle. And I need a chance to redeem the 77 car.

OR

You can check out theclassifieds and go around all this tom foolery.

Dano77

07-19-2013, 10:01 AM

are they all 12A's

12a with 15x7 wheels, 205/50/15 Nitto NT-01 :dead_horse:

Greg Amy

07-19-2013, 10:46 AM

Greg, we decided you need one more race to prove your mettle. And I need a chance to redeem the 77 car.
Ain't got no plans for August...just sayin'...

lateapex911

07-19-2013, 10:56 AM

12a with 15x7 wheels, 205/50/15 Nitto NT-01 :dead_horse:

thats a New Hampshire IT-7.
A summit Point IT-s is a ITA RX-7. Same in Ohio,and most other places. A Georgia or SC IT-7 has Toyos, on 13s, I think. Unless it's at the ARRC, when it's an ITA RX-7

Andy Bettencourt

07-19-2013, 01:24 PM

You have to apply and bring 15 letters of recomendation, notarized in triplicate, and be approved by a commitee of your peers. Then we might allow you the privalige of "Borrowing" an IT7 car.

After succesfully completeing the initiation phase, you will then be allowed to look at IT7 cars in the area. you cant buy them yet as they need to be offered to the members in good standing first, after that they will be offered to new members.

After purchase, you will need to fetch us beers forever and then you can race us.

Sound good Andy?

.

Sounds good. I just don't want to catch fire. :D