Contact Impound

[Greg Amy]

This weekend at NHMS I was acting Steward of the Course (SoC). We (NER? NEDiv?) implemented a new program that was appropriated from other orgs, called “contact impound” (CI). CI was implemented as a way to detect, resolve, and track contact; I’m inferring it is a direct response to the lessons we learned from the SEDiv Driver Review process. From the Supplementary Regulations:
On-Track Contact: all competitors involved in contact during a session must report to “Contact Impound” to submit a report.
The basic premise of CI is that any time there’s contact, drivers are to report to the CI area (at NHMS it's next to Tech shed) and fill out a simple form, indicating what happened and how it could have been avoided. No penalties are assessed and the drivers are then free to go. We were flexible about it, in that if someone had another session coming up we released them with the form and asked them to return it to us ASAP.

Response to contact impound was almost universally positive. All drivers thought it was a good idea, and I had minimal resistance to the idea, whether from offender or the offendee (or mutually-agreed “racing incident”). The only non-positive response I got was a driver that was hit and subsequently retired from the race. I released him to bring his car to his paddock but he was upset enough that he wasn’t so keen on the idea of being there when the other car finished the race. His response was – paraphrased – “this could lead to fistfights in Impound”. I can see his point. However, as mad as he was, he came back and they stood side-by-side in Impound, filled out the forms, and worked out their differences. I don’t recall if there was a handshake in the end, but everyone got their grievances aired.

On the other hand, the system worked quite well with the ITB/SM group. Three cars were racing together and two of them had contact and spun off. In discussing it with the spinners they thought the third car had crowded them off the road and caused the incident. After discussing it with all three and getting them together to review video, they subsequently agreed that the third car was not a direct cause, that one of the spinners caused it. In this case, it allowed us to clarify the situation so that they can avoid it in the future.

All in all we documented around a dozen incidents, none serious. All seem to have been “resolved” amicably among the drivers. I’m not clear what we’ll be doing with these forms long-term, but it should be a useful tool for detecting and resolving issues well before they get out of hand.

So should you find yourself in a “compromised” position while racing in NER/NEDiv, look forward to a short discussion with a SoC… - GA

[mossaidis]

Sweet - glad to hear it worked out.

[chuck baader]

Excellent! I really like the idea.

[Drew M]

Does this include bump drafting?

[Greg Amy]

Does this include bump drafting?
If you manage to bump-draft without contact, then the answer is "no".

- GA

[lawtonglenn]

...I’m not clear what we’ll be doing with these forms long-term, but it should be a useful tool for detecting and resolving issues well before they get out of hand.
...


It seems to me that the primary objective of the new CI system is to build a documented history
of problems involving drivers who are "Hacks". By accumulating incident reports for EVERY incident
with the new CI system, we don't have to rely on the more onerous Filed Protest process to yield a
documented history of problems that can be attributed to a Hack.

As we all know, there are many reasons why Hacks don't get protested on every occasion.
The victim considers it a long and onerous process. The victim just wants to pack up and
get home. The victim doesn't want to be "that guy" that throws paper at small incidences. etc etc etc.

So, as a result, Hacks continue to Hack, over and over, with no documented paper trail. However,
with the CI system, even without numerous formal protests, a stack of CI reports will
provide written documentation that can support the use of formal action, even with only
one formal protest.

I think this is great, and encourage the accumulation of the reports in a database that can
be sorted and displayed by driver, for the use of Stewards when rendering decisions and awarding penalties

.

[ner88]

The primary objective is that contact is not acceptable and not a part of our sport, no matter how minor and all drivers involved must be held accountable.
Bump drafting is contact!

[Ron Earp]

Excellent! I really like the idea.

Everyone likes the idea, until the idea becomes about them....


The primary objective is that contact is not acceptable and not a part of our sport, no matter how minor and all drivers involved must be held accountable.
Bump drafting is contact!

Right said Fred. I'd prefer to not be bump drafted. Who the hell knows what the driver in front if you is going to do, or, what he was getting ready to do the milliseconds before you decided to bump draft him?

[Ed Funk]

Or maybe it was Jerry.

[ner88]

Or maybe it was Jerry.
:D

[lawtonglenn]

Everyone likes the idea, until the idea becomes about them....


Actually I was the first to have to submit a CI report Saturday, first rungroup
of the first race of the first NER event.

I had started from the back, having missed qualifying, and was working my way
through the field, having some difficulty getting by Russ Jones in his 944, who has
a tremendous straightline power advantage. I was setting up for another try at him
on the front straight, but he missed a shift going into 11, slowing precipitously and
unexpectedly. I bumped him. I didn't mean to, He didn't mean to slow down so much, we
talked afterward, no problems... Kathy came to talk with us, to remind us of the new CI
rule, Russ tried unsuccessfully to talk her out of it. We filled out the CI forms, no problems.

Yes, Jerry, contact is unacceptable, but it sometimes is unavoidable.

.

[gran racing]

The bump drafting is going to make this quite interesting especially in the various spec Miata classes. There have been some regions that tried to eliminate it without much success. Especially with the CI not being a SCCA wide thing yet, and different regions having much different perspectives or at least tollerances on bump drafting, I'm not sure this would play out.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Two cars go to the CI for bump drafting. 2 drivers fill out the forms. Two drivers walk away fine. No issues.

Hopefully the form has a spot for 'blame' or 'no blame' - between drivers. If you had a stack of bump drafting paperwork in your 'file', that had no blame attached, this should not weigh in as a negative by a SOM reviewing your info during a real Action.

I love the idea overall. Great stuff.

[Greg Amy]

There's a question there for drivers to assign blame. Something like "Who was responsible" and the answers were something like "I was/the other guy was/it was a racing incident".

Jerry, can we get a PDF of that form to post?

- Greg

[team-gpracing]

This is great news and I'm glad that it was widely accepted.

[ShelbyRacer]

Response to contact impound was almost universally positive. All drivers thought it was a good idea, and I had minimal resistance to the idea, whether from offender or the offendee (or mutually-agreed “racing incident”). The only non-positive response I got was a driver that was hit and subsequently retired from the race. I released him to bring his car to his paddock but he was upset enough that he wasn’t so keen on the idea of being there when the other car finished the race. His response was – paraphrased – “this could lead to fistfights in Impound”. I can see his point. However, as mad as he was, he came back and they stood side-by-side in Impound, filled out the forms, and worked out their differences. I don’t recall if there was a handshake in the end, but everyone got their grievances aired.



Personally, I think that this reduces the likelihood of physical confrontations. The few "fights" I've heard of tend to be out of sight of the officials, usually after "friends" and crew get involved and exacerbate things. Having a set process in place provides a mechanism for appropriate discussion, as well as having several mediators on-hand.

This reminds me of the process we use here in middle school for conflict resolution. I can say that of all the issues that I see make it to the office and go through this, very few ever go beyond it, and most are "resolved" before the parties walk away. The fights usually happen when we don't catch the conflict early enough to do this.

I hope this catches on and is adopted by other regions/divisions as well.

[Ed Funk]

That's about right! SCCA driver=middle school.

[Greg Amy]

Attached is the contact form we used this weekend. Thanks Jerry! - GA

[240zdave]

Who in the Southeast Division needs to see this to get it implemented?

[lawtonglenn]

so if we could change one line on the report

FROM


This contact was mostly
my fault/ the other driver’s fault

TO


This contact was mostly
my fault/ the other driver’s fault/ no fault racing incident


that would be great

Glenn

[Knestis]

I almost had "contact" with a Formula A-hole driver who figured that the rules about not pitting in the traffic/fire lanes in the paddock didn't apply to him...

K

[jumbojimbo]

no fault racing incident

I think including that option means 90% would say it because it is the easy answer, too easy of an answer. Even if it a racing incident someone is at fault even if it is just for starting the car in the morning. It will provoke a more thoughtful answer without the easy answer, and that's the point, right?

[ner88]

The car getting hit would blame the other guy and the car doing the hitting would say "just a racing incident":shrug:

[lawtonglenn]

...

Hopefully the form has a spot for 'blame' or 'no blame' - between drivers. If you had a stack of bump drafting paperwork in your 'file', that had no blame attached, this should not weigh in as a negative by a SOM reviewing your info during a real Action.

I love the idea overall. Great stuff.


so if we could change one line on the report

FROM


This contact was mostly
my fault/ the other driver’s fault

TO


This contact was mostly
my fault/ the other driver’s fault/ no fault racing incident

.

[ShelbyRacer]

I'd prefer to see "shared fault" when it's a racing incident. I also believe that would not necessarily be an "easy answer", and would hopefully take that thought with them. I'm also not fond of the word "fault", but that's another issue.

Perhaps-

This contact was mostly
My fault/the fault of the other driver/faults of both drivers

[lawtonglenn]

...I'm also not fond of the word "fault", but that's another issue.



Here's from a Thesaurus ... I vote for boob

fault
noun
1. responsibility, liability, guilt, accountability, culpability It was all my fault we quarrelled.
2. mistake, slip, error, offence, blunder, lapse, negligence, omission, boob (Brit. slang), oversight, slip-up, indiscretion, inaccuracy, howler (informal), glitch (informal), error of judgment, boo-boo (informal) It was a genuine fault.
3. failing, lack, weakness, defect, deficiency, flaw, drawback, shortcoming, snag, blemish, imperfection, Achilles heel, weak point, infirmity, demerit His manners always made her blind to his faults.
failing credit, strength, asset, merit, attribute, virtue, goodness, perfection
4. misdeed, failing, wrong, offence, sin, lapse, misconduct, wrongdoing, trespass, frailty, misdemeanour, delinquency, transgression, peccadillo Hypocrisy is one fault of which he cannot be accused.

[lawtonglenn]

This contact was mostly
My fault/the fault of the other driver/faults of both drivers


I like it ... or maybe simpler:

This contact was:
Mostly my fault / Mostly other driver's fault / Equally shared fault

.

[Racerlinn]

Stick with "fault of both".
"Equally shared" will then turn into "it was both our faults.....but more HIS!!!" middle school debate.

[erlrich]

I love the whole CI concept, and firmly believe all contact should be investigated to some extent. I do however think "racing incident" is a perfectly valid answer to "whose fault was it?"; sometimes contact is truly unavoidable, and results from perfectly acceptable actions on both driver's part. As the saying goes, shit happens. When you're driving at the limit of adhesion, in close proximity to other cars, the probability that shit will happen increases considerably. If both drivers agree, then it was a racing incident, not anybody's fault.

[Ed Funk]

Stick with "fault of both".
"Equally shared" will then turn into "it was both our faults.....but more HIS!!!" middle school debate.

Back to the SCCA driver=middle school!

Pretty much without exception, everyone who's ever had contact with me was an asshole!
I think that term is very usable and universally understood.

Helpful?

[mossaidis]

I agree Ed, that wall at NHMS was and still is a COMPLETE JERK!

[ShelbyRacer]

Here's from a Thesaurus ... I vote for boob



Huh huh, he said boob.

So, we could change it to-

I was the boob/the other driver was the boob/we were both boobs

?

Huh huh, two boobs.

[Matt93SE]

You can pretty much blame anything that happens in life on boobs...

Umm yeah. Nice concept, I like it. I vote for leaving who's at fault as-is. It asks who is MORE at fault, you or the other guy... there is always the guy that pushed first/drifted wide, wasn't looking ahead to see the guy 3 cars ahead spinning and expect to avoid the guy 1 car in front..

anyway, I fully support it if/when something like that is put in place in SWDIV. The only instances of contact I've had (so far) were all explained with a conversation, handshake, and a beer. both parties were partially at fault in every case. some were more my fault, some more the other guy's.. none were 50/50. Remember that bump drafting takes the guy in the back willfully pushing the guy in the front. the guy in front certainly isn't sandbagging...

[Drew M]

Two cars go to the CI for bump drafting. 2 drivers fill out the forms. Two drivers walk away fine. No issues.

Hopefully the form has a spot for 'blame' or 'no blame' - between drivers. If you had a stack of bump drafting paperwork in your 'file', that had no blame attached, this should not weigh in as a negative by a SOM reviewing your info during a real Action.

I love the idea overall. Great stuff.

Not that I go around using my bumper as a push bar, but that's why I asked. A safely executed, straight line bump (draft or not) isn't always a bad thing.

[StephF]

I agree Ed, that wall at NHMS was and still is a COMPLETE JERK!

:lol:

Hey Mickey, we reserved a chapter for you in the new book.

[Ed Funk]

And to think I used to like Mickey.

[924Guy]

Small suggestion... I would personally like to see some form of "I could have avoided this contact by:"

Simply to get all drivers involved to think about such. Not that there's always an option to avoid, but...

JMO...

[ner88]

Small suggestion... I would personally like to see some form of "I could have avoided this contact by:"

Simply to get all drivers involved to think about such. Not that there's always an option to avoid, but...

JMO...

"I think contact could have been avoided by:"
Last question on the form!

[mossaidis]

:lol:

Hey Mickey, we reserved a chapter for you in the new book.

Sweet. Please learn from my mistakes. Leaping from building to building will indeed lead to failure and the upsetting of others, though levels vary greatly. :mad1:

I will ask Ahbi and Denise to sign it "my" chapter.

[jjjanos]

Not that I go around using my bumper as a push bar, but that's why I asked. A safely executed, straight line bump (draft or not) isn't always a bad thing.

And yet is a violation of the rules.

[JLawton]

I will ask Ahbi and Denise to sign it "my" chapter.


Don't forget me!!

[924Guy]

"I think contact could have been avoided by:"
Last question on the form!


I was asking for a different question to be asked.

The above is easily answered by any variation of "the other guy should've... (gotten his head out of his ass, stopped blocking me, etc)."

[jumbojimbo]

And yet is a violation of the rules.

Technically true. But it is a mistake to be distracted on a non-issue.

[mossaidis]

Don't forget me!!

You just made my Friday! Thanks Jeff! When do we get to see you again?

[StephF]

And yet is a violation of the rules.

Only if it's called in. ;)