View Full Version : STL Confusion and Rules Omission(s)

04-19-2013, 05:29 PM
Greg Amy and other forum members please provide your feedback to the following points: 1.) The IT rules specify no coatings or chemical processes to engine, or drive train components. STL rules is silent except the STL rules infers that if the rules don't say you can, You Can't. However, some newer vehicles come with coatings from the factory. Therefore, will competitors with older technology vehicles be allowed to coat engine, drive train, and other components? If not, why are older vehicles relegated to a lesser status when the class is based on weight-to-displacement. It appears that older vehicles will be disadadvantaged to a degree. My opinion is that if one type of vehicle is allowed to have it then all vehicles should be allowed to have it. 2.) In the same vein as the above, there is the situation of dry sump systems. While I'm not aware of a legitimate vehicle/engine in STL in that configuration it probably will happen if not already. 3.)In the same vein as the above, the toyota 2zz-ge engine is allowed with a 11.5 CR.The rules state max of 11.0. Will all vehicles be allowed to have 11.5 CR? If not, why was this engine allowed to have 11.5 CR @ 1800cc. Also, if a competitor uses a 2ZZ engine from a current Lotus Elise(made by Toyota for Lotus)in their Toyota would they have to reduce the 11.5 CR to 11.0 CR. Further,it has been brought to my attention that certain Volkswagen vehicles will be allowed to use the European spec engine(ABF I believe).Yet, the rules specify only USDM engines.Why this allowance? It would logically follow that all vehicles should be allowed to use European spec engines to keep the playing field level and specs uniform. 4.) In the same vein as the above, what about wheel bolt pattern(s)? Are competitors allowed to change the wheel bolt pattern even though the rules are silent? 5.) Relative to the splitter rule, the rule for STL specifies 3" ground clearance, yet the IT rule specifies no lower than the bottom of the wheel rim which for most vehicles is 2.5".

In conclusion, I know that many forum members may feel I'm acting as "gadfly" and such is not the case. Before I spend any more funds on building a 10/10ths STL vehicle, I need to know not only the letter of the rules but the spirit of the rules as well. Any and all responses(pro or con) will be appreciated. Thx. racermr2

04-22-2013, 02:05 PM
Rudy - I'm not 100% up on ST but I think I can answer at least this much:

coatings of the usual sort are allowed. this is approaching an all out engine build class. coatings belong in that, philosophically. I think some STAC guys have commented in the affirmative about this in another thread.

11.5CR of the 2ZZ-GE is allowed as that is stock compression. older rules used to read something like "11:0 or stock if greater" but now they simply call the specific engines allowed with non-standard specs on spec lines. interesting situation with the engine being part of a car that is "disallowed in its entirety" while also in a mass produced celica etc... there's no difference between them that matters to the rules that I am aware of. if there is, use the Toyota-sourced part. the 2ZZ engine is SPECIFICALLY allowed, as specified. why on earth would you run it @ 11.0:0 CR?

the VW ABF (Euro market) is listed in the spec lines. there has been an allowance for non USDM motors for ~1 year, on a case by case basis, with approved motors to be listed. see 9.1.4.G.3 (STCS) for details. Go ahead and request a 3rd or 4th gen (BEAMS) 3S-GE, a 20v 4A-GE, etc... worst they can say is "no.

the STCS main and STL sections are silent on allowing dry sump but do say (9.1.4.G.11.) that the OEM an OEM type replacement oil pump shall be used. if the car CAME dry sump, keep that system, otherwise, stay wet. You can also change pickups etc.. as detailed.

ST is not IT. splitter rules are as described for each class. if you run an IT car in STL as an IT car (NOT a "10/10th STL vehicle") you run an IT splitter (wheel-limited) and all other IT rules. if you are running a car built to STL rules, you run the ST splitter (3in). there are a lot of differences between the IT and ST splitters, btw.

Greg Amy
04-22-2013, 02:24 PM
Oops, sorry, was at the track all weekend, missed this. I concur with Chip's evaluation. - GA

Ed Funk
04-22-2013, 03:07 PM
After 25 years of reading IT rules and the "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't".
My quick perusal of the STL rules (and I ain't gonna tell ya why I'm interested) looks more like "if it doesn't say you can't, then you can". Am I close?

Greg Amy
04-22-2013, 03:39 PM
My quick perusal of the STL rules (and I ain't gonna tell ya why I'm interested) looks more like "if it doesn't say you can't, then you can". Am I close?
No, it's still "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't". But we don't have 25 years of hindsight and rules manipulation to capture every possible iteration.

That said, were one to request a clarification -- and thus another specific rule to cover whatever was on their mind at that moment -- I think you'll find that the philosophy of the class is intended to be a lot more "allow" than "deny". - GA