For those who run STU, How much would you pay...

[jhooten]

for a three day double national/Super Tour on the F1 course at Circuit of the Americas if we can do the deal?

Would it make a difference whether you came to the event or not if we ran the short course instead of the F1 course? I have one board member pushing for the short course. I need driver input to support the long course, unless he is right and it doesn't matter. Cost will be the same for either course.

[Greg Amy]

I would be interested in running the course, but coming from CT I can't promise to show. But if I could, the cost of entry would be pretty much irrelevant if I did (assuming we're talking $300 versus $500). - GA

[seckerich]

VIR used to run a short course years ago. Quit running after a year, waste of time after running full course. Is it a worker problem to staff full course?

[Matt93SE]

Since it's in my backyard, cost isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for me. I'd show up to support the show, unless it was prohibitively expensive (like $1k+).

But for a 3-day event, and maybe a mid-length (1-hr?) enduro to make things even more interesting? ;)

Since I don't know the differences between long and short courses, I'm going to ask for the long.. But I'll race on any pavement you let me.


Edit.. Steve, for SOWDIV, manning a course that size could very well be a problem unless we get workers from out of region. Manning TWS's 2.9 mile course is sometimes very close on staffing. It's been a few years since we've had to run the short course there due to staffing, but we have had to make that choice a few times. Pretty much any chance I get, I'll help out in F&C, but I'd say a decent percentage of our F&C/control/stewards do the same- and most of us run in small bore/IT group so it's a stretch on workers when that group is on the track.

[jhooten]

He is afraid of the clean up time from the carnage at a 1st gear hair pin at the bottom of a pretty good down hill long straight. The short course bypasses the hair pin.

Matt, if you do the Thursday track run practice day you may be close.

Negotiations continue.

Greg, you would be up there for the longest tow award if I can convince the race chair to budget cash for one.

[Matt93SE]

He is afraid of the clean up time from the carnage at a 1st gear hair pin at the bottom of a pretty good down hill long straight. The short course bypasses the hair pin.

Has he ever driven Hallett?

[jhooten]

Has he ever driven Hallett?


Don't think so.

But now that you mention it I do want to go do a race there since I've only been there for a school. I can see, from what I remember from ten years ago, how there could be some long cleanups there.

[Matt93SE]

Don't think so.

But now that you mention it I do want to go do a race there since I've only been there for a school. I can see, from what I remember from ten years ago, how there could be some long cleanups there.

so far I haven't seen much of any long cleanups required, but I've only been to a couple races. Kent Carter's SM was the worst I've seen, and it was no different than any other track where a car nosed into a tire wall at 90.

The hard-braking turns are generally well respected by the drivers, so there's little major contact in those. sure it's downhill at 100mph, but there's runoff room and you don't go to Hallett without good brakes!

I ran in april this year and plan on making the trip up again for a race or two next year as well. Grew up in the area and it was the first track I drove on- so it's got meaning to me.

Back to the subject. I can't imagine COTA being too much worse than running the 3.1 at TWS or clockwise into Diamond's Edge at MSRH with a full field of SMs behind you. in any of those cases, I'm scared because of the guy behind me, not because of my car..

but hey, I'm young and dumb I guess. I have less fear than most. :023:

[jmac36]

Guys, count me in, with bells on!!!!

[pavis]

at Heartland Park - topeka they will occasionally have a double event with a different configuration for day one and day 2. I know which one I like the best.
none of us have drivent the cours (except for jerry!). why not try both and get some driver feedback for future events?
pete

[jhooten]

at Heartland Park - topeka they will occasionally have a double event with a different configuration for day one and day 2. I know which one I like the best.
none of us have drivent the cours (except for jerry!). why not try both and get some driver feedback for future events?
pete


You can pay for only Sunday's race and run the Friday practice. Since Friday practice is open to both sanction numbers once cars take to the course for the first Friday session that is the course configuration were have to run for both races.

[Z3_GoCar]

Dude, the big course... I'll have to get a new tow vehicle to cross the Continental Divide, but racing on the F1 course would be Epic!

[Prof. Chaos]

For a Double National/Super Tour, I'd consider making the drive from California for a $400-$450 entry fee on the F1 course. However, if the event is called "The 2014 SCCA National Championship Runoffs at COTA," count me in for sure! :026:

[Matt93SE]

Unfortunately, I'm betting it's going to be well over $450. a current N/N is $450 for the weekend around here, and that's at the cheap tracks.

[jhooten]

For a Double National/Super Tour, I'd consider making the drive from California for a $400-$450 entry fee on the F1 course. However, if the event is called "The 2014 SCCA National Championship Runoffs at COTA," count me in for sure! :026:

It would take 500+ entries to get the price down that far. Then we would have to do real qualifying and not every one would get to race.

[Prof. Chaos]

It would take 500+ entries to get the price down that far. Then we would have to do real qualifying and not every one would get to race.

Considering this year's Runoffs entry is $500, and there are tow funds for that event, I doubt I'd drive for 2 days to get to an event that's much more expensive than the Runoffs.

Any chance of making it a Triple or Quad National? That would offset a lot of travel costs and would justify a higher entry price.

[Matt93SE]

The problem is the additional day of track rental + emergency + workers + etc increases costs by another day..

It's going to be an expensive track no matter how many days you run.
That said, I'm hoping for maybe a N/N/enduro or something. maybe the thurs/fri "practice day" could be a Rational, then Sat National, sunday National/Enduro.
just wishful thinking there... :)

[Greg Amy]

I suspect that being in Central Texas, there's only going to be so much demand for that track over time. Right now it's new and it's the F1 circuit. A few years down the line it'll just be the F1 circuit. I suspect the rental costs will eventually trend down...

GA

[jhooten]

The track management is mainly interested in one thing, PROFIT. As time passes and they learn what the market will actually bear we hope the track rental cost will become more reasonable. For now they are taking the Apple approach, sell fewer units at a higher profit per unit. The initial offer to us was $55k/day if we scheduled 3 days.

As to demand for the facility, COTA was built as a multipurpose facility. There is an amphitheater inside the track for hosting concerts and such. The have a plan to host tennis world cup that concludes with the finals being held on the start/finish straight. Next year in addition to F1 there will be Super Bikes/Moto GP, Australian V8 Supercars, and a couple more they won't name until the contracts are signed they said. The word is there will be event at the facility 48 weeks of the year with a 2 week maintenance stand down and two holidays.

Quad,
Understand the reschedule of the convention has taken our traditional first weekend date. Normally Houston region would host a double the last weekend of February, the weekend before, at MSRH and ours would have given your 4 nationals in 9 days, like the Florida double double. Since we had to delay a weekend to work around the convention it will take 16 days in 2013 as it did this year. 2014 the schedule should return to the traditional dates.

Our race chair is doing everything he can to work with the track to lower the cost. As it stands now, the weekend is going to cost me nearly $3500 and I only live about 20 miles from the track. If race fuel would just go back down to $3 a gallon.

[Greg Amy]

The initial offer to us was $55k/day if we scheduled 3 days.
FIFTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER DAY???? That takes the freakin' Princess Big Balls Cake away from Lime Rock Park, which is charging about $55k for two whole days.

Tell 'em to pound sand and let the Ferrari Club prance around there until they learn a bit more about long-term Reality.

GA, who made the conscious choice to not go to Austin for the F1 race just because those guys are charging usury rates for tickets. Same goes for this idea. Call me when they become reasonable.

On edit: Jerry, let me offer a bit of unsolicited advice: pass on any dates at those rates. "Just say no". We have a region up here in New England that insisted on hosting an event at our "premo" track, LRP ("it's the way we've always done it") right in the middle of the season. Historically, it was not a particularly well-attended event, especially once LRP started jacking the rental rates and tagging on a whole bunch of non-optional "extras". Drivers indicated to the region that it was too much money and that their dates were a bit awkward, and that their attendance was not guaranteed. They continued to hold the even anyway. As a result, I heard that the region came damned close to true-up bankruptcy.

Take the same tactic as you indicated the track is going to take: PROFIT. Don't over-extend yourself on a boutique event simply because it's the shiny new thing. Shiny new things are not SCCA Club Racing, they're Ferrari Club, and Porsche Club, and McLaren Club, ad nausea. If the square numbers don't make sense, don't try to cram them into a round event. This is something that would be "nice", but it's not worth the financial risk you're describing. Let it go, and let's see if it comes back to you. - GA

[Matt93SE]

$55k PER DAY?
Yeah, they can shove it.

[jhooten]

BTW, That is per day about what we gave TWS for the season.

And thanks to some of the REs and Race Chairs from the regions hosting races at other "premium" tracks sending us their info on rates track management has moderated some on the cost. We are almost to the point are being able to make it work which is what prompted the question, What are you willing to pay to be the first to race on the new track. Remember every fast lap will be a track record and every class winner will be the be forever etched in the record books as the FIRST.

[Greg Amy]

Remember every fast lap will be a track record and every class winner will be the be forever etched in the record books as the FIRST.
I set the "FIRST" Showroom Stock A lap record at Heartland Park Topeka.

I don't think it was worth $55,000 per day.

[JIgou]

I suspect that being in Central Texas, there's only going to be so much demand for that track over time. Right now it's new and it's the F1 circuit. A few years down the line it'll just be the F1 circuit. I suspect the rental costs will eventually trend down...

GA

Iowa Speedway, "Designed by Rusty Wallace" is finally trending toward sane for their rental costs. First-blush, first-year costs were NOT sane....

[Prof. Chaos]

So to turn the question around, with an entry count that's reasonable for that area, what would the entry fee be for COTA? How many cars do you usually get for a Double National weekend?

[Z3_GoCar]

.... Let it go, and let's see if it comes back to you. - GA
And how does that second line go?? "If it doesn't come back to you, then hunt it down and kill it!" ?

[jhooten]

So to turn the question around, with an entry count that's reasonable for that area, what would the entry fee be for COTA? How many cars do you usually get for a Double National weekend?

5 years ago 200
2-3 years ago 160
Last couple years 120, Granted for this years super tour we had 160 and 40 chickened out because of a little rain. The water was only 3 feet deep in the tunnel to get into the paddock.


The entry fee for the March 3 day double national is $475 with the track test day on Thursday an additional $250 if you run it.

Won't know the entry fee until the contract with COTA is signed with the final rental etched in stone. I'm retired now so I have a vested self interest in keeping the entry fee as low as possible.

I am hoping to have it all ironed out and be able to announce the race location by the middle of November.