Improved Touring Class

[rasperin]

Hey Guys, I have a 2002 Infiniti I35 (Nissan Maxima) I was thinking about turning into an improved touring car (slowly and doing bad until I could afford to make the changes) however because it has a powerful engine I'm afraid it will be in a higher class. I can't seem to find it in the handbook, maybe I'm overlooking it, but I was wondering if any of you knew what class it might be in. It has a LSD, ABS, Electronic Traction Control, 255 hp engine, curb weight is 3306lbs. Here is the spec sheet (2003 is the same as 2002, my 2002 has the sports package) http://www.autobuyguide.com/2003/12-aut/infiniti/i35/specifications/index.html .

If it ends up in ITR there is absolutely no way this car could even dream of competing with an RX8 or anything like that. However I don't really have the money to buy an already modified or even a blank sheet car (like I said the modification would be minimal to start with, essentially pulling out the seats, putting a harnessed seat, and adding a roll cage to make it compliant).

If it does end up being an ITR car (and not an ITS), would I be better off with saving up for the next two years and buying a modified RX8/RX7? If I could find a blank slate RX7 for under $1k I might consider investing into that. Anyways, ideas?

[Knestis]

Welcome to the asylum... :)

The short answer is that building your existing street car would be "doing it wrong."

Go with Plan B. You will be money - and time, and headaches - ahead if you start putting money in a savings account and buy an existing car when you have the dough. Start by selling the Inifiniti for whatever it's worth and you are a chunk of the way toward a used race car, for which you will pay something like half of the sum of it's parts. If you really want a higher-power, rear-drive ITS or R car, you're going to have fewer options, and the cost of entry will be a little higher, but you'll still pay $12K for something that would cost $24K+ to build.

Gen III RX7s are GREAT ITS cars and there are enough of them around that they go for reasonable money. That also means there's a HUGE knowledge base built up around them, so you don't have to solve any new engineering problems.

Have fun!

K

[Ron Earp]

If it ends up in ITR there is absolutely no way this car could even dream of competing with an RX8 or anything like that. However I don't really have the money to buy an already modified or even a blank sheet car (like I said the modification would be minimal to start with, essentially pulling out the seats, putting a harnessed seat, and adding a roll cage to make it compliant).



It is in ITR and it is heavy. I'm sure it'll make a lot of power, but heavy/FWD/lot of power sounds like a bad combination. IT classes by stock hp and concerns about competitiveness are secondary if considered at all.

Heed Kirk's advice. He is spot on. Buy a competitive car and sell the Infiniti.

[Matt93SE]

the cost of a custom cage, seat, harness, and the $1500 in other safety equipment you would need to START racing the I35 would buy you a decent used ITA or ITS car. Keep an eye out for stuff and you can find deals on well-built older race cars for $3500.

i.e. Bosco was/is selling a well prepped 240SX for roughly what it would cost you to put a cage in your Maxima.

Plus, you'll be faster, have fewer reliability problems, and spend a LOT less on tires in a smaller car.

Been there, done that. Tracked my '93 Maxima for several years. I'd go through a set of R-comps in a weekend DE in that car. My S14 will take 4-5 times as long to go through the same size tire, and I'm ~10sec a lap faster on a 2 min track.. with 50hp less!

[mbuskuhl]

Gen III RX7s are GREAT ITS cars


I think you mean Gen II, or 2nd Gen/FC/1986-91 model. The Gen III is the twin turbo and not classed in SCCA.

OP - take the advice others have given. Do not try and turn your Infiniti into a race car unless you have deep pockets. If there are limited funds you can buy an IT starter car for $2k.

[Knestis]

Whoops - sorry, yes. Second generation RX7. I should know since I actually raced one years ago...

K

[dickita15]

I feel bad for the original poster. You come here with a plan to develop your current car and even have reasonable expectations and we all jump on you telling you that you are doing it wrong.
Well the problem is there is a lot of experience on this board. We have all seen folks try similar courses of action and the get discouraged so the group is pretty heartless in trying to save folks like you.
The reaction you are getting is based on some true facts:
Buying is much cheaper that building. Especially in this kind of market cars are available for 1/5th of the build cost.
Developing a car that no one else races takes much more time money and talent that racing a car that has a knowledge base.
Slower lighter cars are much easier on equipment and thus much cheaper to run.
Track time is King. Having a reliable race car you can afford to run means more seat time and seat time more than anything is the key to success in this sport.
My advice is go to events where you will be racing. Find the class that offers good racing. Find a car that is popular. Talk to the drivers and see if you can build a relationship. These are the guys you are going to ask stupid question of when you are at the track.
And if you still want to do it the hard way we will do our best to help.

[Knestis]

I thought we were actually being kind of friendly, per the Brotherhood Of Operating Web Boards International Ethics Standards.

K

[gran racing]

Your next question should be "how many of you guys have built your own cars?" :D

I put together quite a bit of information on a website. For what you're asking, read through several pages beginning here:
http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/build-repairs-maintenance/finding-racecars-for-sale.php (http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/build-repairs-maintenance/finding-racecars-for-sale.php)

IF you still decide to build a racecar, I'd really suggest you start with a different beginning. As someone who built a racecar which few (not aware of any myself) previously built, it's a royal PITA. So much development, time, re-doing, money, a ton more time and frustration goes into it.

Have you done many high performance driving events? If not, start there with your existing car and do NOT add go-fast parts to it. Also don't be bashful to ask more questions here. This forum is one of the most polites ones I've been on.

[Flyinglizard]

Welcome,
If you really like the car and have little use for it, by all means install a cage , clean out the inside, add some springs and shocks and go track it. Dont bother with the multi thousand dollar shox setups , just get some cheapish stuff and work from a good base line. The car will not be a front runner, but you may win the ITR class if there really is one..
As you pick up track time, you will run across many race cars for sale. You will have more knowledge as you go.
You can buy many IT race cars for 3-5000, about 1/3 of build cost. Buy something that parts are easy toget, body and power train. Stay away from cute old cars that engines are scarce. IE ITC VW 1.6, Fiat,etc. Corrloa

[EH9racing]

Rasperin,

IT uses a horsepower driven classification procedure. Your car is fwd and 255 horsepower. This amount of horsepower puts you at the higher hp levels for ITR and therefore at a pretty high weight. Im figuring about 3370 unless i am missing something.

Since you said you did not want to run in itr i figured this would be the answer you really needed. Imho buy a ita/b car and get out there.

To get your street car ready to race in SCCA you will need alot of money and time. Youll easily spend the same just getting it track ready as you would buying a built car, as long as you find a good one you will not have much to do after the purchase. Sell your i35 and buy a race car.

[mossaidis]

Sell your i35 and buy a race car and truck/trailer.

Fixed that for you. :)

[jjjanos]

If you want to race, buy a car.
If you want to develop/build a racecar, then build.

[mossaidis]

If you want to race, buy a car.
If you want to develop/build a racecar, then build.

+1 I agree with JJJanos here.

It's a personal choice based on time/budget/preferences, all personal choices, and the users here want to make sure you think about all the pros and cons before you get started. Good luck and keep asking questions! There is fun in building a car not many others have - just do your homework first, so I am glad you are here asking.

From my experience, a 9+/10ths IT car can be upwards of $30K+ (not including engine blow ups) to build and sort when you are using an older commuter. I built my 176K miles '92 Honda Civic Si from a slightly rusty commuter to a pristine HS autoX car, to a STS AutoX then STX to finally DSP car while running HPDE/TTs for 4 years until the car was 100% legal for its initial safety tech. I ran mid-pack in ITA my first year. After which, more $ was needed to get to the pointy end of the front pack. As I speak, we're still doing more.

So, before you build/race by make sure you know where your threshold is between cost and benefit - some of those points were made above. If benefit means being at the pointy end of the front pack, make sure you have either lots of money and an ok baseline car or some money and a great baseline car.

Chatter box off.

[rasperin]

You guys have most def. helped me choose not to use the I35. I will say the idea is that I wouldn't need a truck because I would keep it as a DD, drive it to the track, swap the tires for race tires and race. However, I'm probably going to be switching it out for a used Pontiac G8 GXP (on a loan) and I think I can setup a hitch to that. So considering I could probably pull 4500-5500 for this car and considering I'll probably need ~$1k for the trailer + hitch, what ita/b/s/r in my price range would you suggest? ($3500-4500). Also, what are the best cars for their classes is there a write up for this? Especially considering that IT now includes cars that were sold in 2007 (speaking of which they really need to change the HP specification, even my 2007 civic had 200hp..).

Thanks!

[tom91ita]

There are a couple of ITA crx's in the classifieds right now for about $5,000. Those are proven workhorses for being quick and reliable.

[Chip42]

only recently have the higher HP cars of late become light enough for them to be out of the classing structure, but yes, new cars have a lot of power - and IT needs to grow to accept some of these or die.

what are good, proven cars currently?

ITR: E36 and some newer BMWs. Honda S2000.

ITS: NB miatas (fixed headlights), Gen II RX7s, old Z cars, Porsche 944s, most BMW E36 chassis cars, and a few others (3rd gen "DC" integra GSR is good). lots of potentially good options in S without development done for you.

ITA: honda CRX, 2nd gen "DA" integra, miata (popup headlight cars), BMW 325e, Nissan 240SX SOHC

ITB: 86-89 Accord Lxi, A2-A3 (A4?) VW Golf/GTI, 99-01 mazda protege 1.8L, 88-91 and 92-95 civic DX (any body style, including CRX and Del Sol), 85-89 MR2 is fun but not very fast (ask me how I know. work's done for you though!)

ITC: 85 and later civic wagons / hatchbacks as classified, 1st gen CRX std. ITC is not going to be a growth class. just FYI.

oh, and welcome to the madness!

[mossaidis]

I think the late model Civic SI and 04-08 TSX would be interesting options for ITS and ITR. And the Acura GS/RS for ITA.

Someone in the northeast is building or has finished a fully built Type-R for ITR (teehee). He's a good driver and has well-setup cars, should be interesting.

Dreaming, I would be tempted to build a subaru brz over the next five years - sorting/building it over time.

[Matt93SE]

There's a local shop that just finished a cage install in a BRZ.. There are talks of it running in STU among other things (NASA TTx or PTx)- will have to wait and see if they bring it to SCCA events as well. going to keep an eye on it since the owner frequents MSR Houston..

[Bob Roth]

I don't think I can recommend the TSX for ITR. Reasons against it is that 1. its big and 2. I rented a World Challenge ride in one and even with very trick suspension its kind of a pig handling (unless you have help from Real Time) The current SI coupe is a much better handling package. Ps there are several showroom stock Si's on the market right now at what I think are exceptional prices. example http://www.racingjunk.com/Showroom-Stock/2456632/2008-Honda-Civic-Si-North-EAST-SSB-Champion-.html

[gran racing]

I'd still be curious to see a Mini in ITB, but that is NOT the easy route.