No 1988 BMW 325e in ITA?

[ssilver88]

Does anybody know why only the 1984-1987 325e is allowed in ITA? Thank you for everyones time.

Sean

[Chip42]

It's not been looked at recently, but if I recall there's a change to the head or cam or soemthign that moves the potential of the Eta motor out of ITA ranges. someone may very well tell me I'm wrong here, it's just what I remember.

[mossaidis]

EDIT: "In its final year, the 1988 325 (dubbed "Super Eta" by enthusiasts) was equipped from the factory with special pistons, 325i head/exhaust system, and Motronic 1.1 engine management control, bumping horsepower up to 127 and raising the redline to 5500 RPM."

http://www.e30info.com/pages/diff.htm

Need to consider if update/backdate would impact weight.

[ssilver88]

Thanks guys :) I guess I should look out for the earlier cars then

[chuck baader]

Have been researching this...bottom end is the M20B27 as are all ETA motors, 84-87. In 87 the ETA cam was changed to a 7 bearing cam with the same numbers as the earlier ETA cam. (The 7 bearing cam that was standard in the later "i" motors is a different lift/grind) The "i" head was added in 88 and because of that the compression ration dropped from 9.0 to 8.8. Piston part numbers are different and are the "i" top configuration with the pin moved for that one year. The intake manifold is the earlier "e" type as is the throttle butterfly but with the intake ports matched from the factory. So basically it is the old ETA motor with less compression, 6 more horsepower, and another 500rpm to play with. Wish it were classified in ITA as I would like to play with one.

BTW, you can put a standard ETA motor in that car and play. All e30 chassis cars are the same. Chuck

[vicktorvolpe]

EDIT: "In its final year, the 1988 325 (dubbed "Super Eta" by enthusiasts) was equipped from the factory with special pistons, 325i head/exhaust system, and Motronic 1.1 engine management control, bumping horsepower up to 127 and raising the redline to 5500 RPM."

http://www.e30info.com/pages/diff.htm

Need to consider if update/backdate would impact weight.

redline of 5500....as a honda guy does it hurt to say or think that?

:)

[ssilver88]

Wow thats a lot of cool information :023:

[chuck baader]

Max torque (an unknown quantity on a Honda) occurs at 3600rpm on my ITA motor:shrug:Chuck

[CRallo]

Max torque (an unknown quantity on a Honda) occurs at 3600rpm on my ITA motor:shrug:Chuck

A Honda develops max torque when turned over by the starter motor...

for stock HP that doesn't seem outside the ITA window at all! Write a letter and get them classified!




Remember people, just because it is not there, doesn't mean it can't be!

[ssilver88]

Maybe they should raise the weight for the 88 just a little bit???

[CRallo]

Maybe they should raise the weight for the 88 just a little bit???

It would be higher most likely and on its own spec line. Higher stock HP = higher race weight

[ssilver88]

Maybe bump it up to the 318i weight which is 2600 instead of 2550? It seems reasonable considering its only an increase of a few hp and no increase in torque :rolleyes:

[JeffYoung]

The Process is going to assume the following. Six more stock hp is an expected 8ish more hp in IT trim, which at 14 or so lbs per hp in ITA is about 112 lbs more.

The ITAC is aware this car is a bit unique in ITA (even more so than mine in ITS) in that its torque output is WAY higher than anything else in ITA.

I'm not sure the car has been "processed" before in the first place. I can't find the present GCR weight right now as my Adobe reader is not working and can't get to the ops manual either but ROUGHLY speaking if the car were processed given the dyno numbers we've heard about it would be:

140 wheel hp / .82 X 14.5 + 100 for torque equals 2575.

So the Super Eta would be something like 2690.

Those are ROUGH numbers. Motor may make more power. If we saw a reliable 150 on the dyno (which I think is possible for this car), we get:

150 wheel hp / .82 X 14.5 + 100 = 2750 for the existing car and 2865 for the Super.

[chuck baader]

Jeff, I understand the numbers/process, however, at 2750 the A car would weigh the same as the S car with the 167hp "i" motor. The SETA would weigh 115# more!

The current ITA e30 is classified such that it is competitive after 4 years of development (much like your car) and can make a few hp over process power, the same as the Miate and CRXs.

The torque debate continues. High torque low rpm CAN be equal to low torque high rpm with a simple rear gear change. Does not matter what the motor does, it matters what is put on the ground. That is why my car, Price's Miata, and Moser's CRX were dead equal on the back straight at the ARRC. CB

[mossaidis]

That is why my car, Price's Miata, and Moser's CRX were dead equal on the back straight at the ARRC. CB

F&*k... i am never going to ARRC

[ssilver88]

I wish they don't raise the weight of the normal eta

[mossaidis]

redline of 5500....as a honda guy does it hurt to say or think that?

On guard my friend, I owed a 85 eta and LOVED IT! I regret selling it.


A Honda develops max torque when turned over by the starter motor...

It must be hunda bashing week or something...

[Flyinglizard]

I have a 88 or89 eta 5spd for sale. Pretty ugly, but 98% complete, not much rust. 600. Email in sig.
m

[ssilver88]

I have a 88 or89 eta 5spd for sale. Pretty ugly, but 98% complete, not much rust. 600. Email in sig.
m

To bad your in Florida :(

[red986s]

High torque low rpm CAN be equal to low torque high rpm with a simple rear gear change. Does not matter what the motor does, it matters what is put on the ground. That is why my car, Price's Miata, and Moser's CRX were dead equal on the back straight at the ARRC. CB

Chuck mind sharing what that gear change is? :D That ARRC video of Moser's (the battle) was some of the best racing I've seen in long time. Good stuff!

[JeffYoung]

Jeff, I understand the numbers/process, however, at 2750 the A car would weigh the same as the S car with the 167hp "i" motor. The SETA would weigh 115# more!

The current ITA e30 is classified such that it is competitive after 4 years of development (much like your car) and can make a few hp over process power, the same as the Miate and CRXs.

The torque debate continues. High torque low rpm CAN be equal to low torque high rpm with a simple rear gear change. Does not matter what the motor does, it matters what is put on the ground. That is why my car, Price's Miata, and Moser's CRX were dead equal on the back straight at the ARRC. CB

Red herring on the "i." The class power/weight ratio is different in ITA so the calculation is different. One hp is 14 lbs in ITA, but only 12.9 in S (or something close to that).

So a "powerful" A car should weigh more than a "less powerful" S car.

I'm pretty sure the I325e and the E30 325is have not been processed. I'm not saying we are going to do that, I'm just saying if the car is not on process weight and it is requested that we do so....we are required to take a look at it.

The CRX is dead on process weight and the if the Miata dyno charts we have are correct, so is the ITA Miata.

I don't anticipate any changes to the 325s in the never future though. They seem to be a good fit where they are.

[chuck baader]

"I325e" Misprint? No such animal.

325i ....88-91 is a 2750# ITS car...was classified when I started racing 10 years ago. Chuck

red986s...applied torque is a function of engine torque X gear ratio X rear end ratio...that is what you actually put on the ground.

[ssilver88]

Is the eta competitive against the Miata? Where I'm going to be racing(CalClub) all the ITA cars are miatas that race in both ITA and SM. There are no ITB cars and also no ITS or ITR cars

[Z3_GoCar]

To bad your in Florida :(

Road trip!!

[ssilver88]

It would be a long trip from Cali but I would be able to visit my hometown. Probably not worth it

[Andy Bettencourt]

Is the eta competitive against the Miata? Where I'm going to be racing(CalClub) all the ITA cars are miatas that race in both ITA and SM. There are no ITB cars and also no ITS or ITR cars

So if all you have in ITA is SM's that are double dipping, a well prepped and well drive eta should be untouchable.

[ssilver88]

Thats great news :) especially because I'm just going to be starting once I finish the build :)

[Z3_GoCar]

Then there's Naji in his 200sx. I don't know any where else that this car's run competitively in ITA.