HANS downside?

[Flyinglizard]

I was walking around the grid @ the last Regional, talking to old friends. Old friends.
Two said that they cant get out of their cars with the helmets on. The HANs keeps them from tipping their heads out the door .
Fire escape?
How should this be adressed? Or should it at all?
The race cars would have to remove or reengineer the driver door bars, much lower.
Before you race your car this year,find a way out, with your eyes closed and helmet on, IMHO.
MM

[Greg Amy]

Barn <<----..................---->> Horse

.
.
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[CRallo]

Jut ask Joey hand about egress with a HANS...

That said, they now have those quick release anchors. Recommend those to your friends. That is the easy button, but I don't like it either :/

[JohnW8]

That said, they now have those quick release anchors. Recommend those to your friends. That is the easy button, but I don't like it either :/


And 2 more tethers to try to find in a rush while trying to get out of a smoke filled car.

No good answer but with all the safety I have in my car I'm starting to feel a little unsafe.

[tom91ita]

...No good answer but with all the safety I have in my car I'm starting to feel a little unsafe.:smilie_pokal:

if we keep the key out of the ignition, then maybe is there enough room?

[1stGenBoy]

They should look at the HAN's Sport II. It was designed with a shorter and rounder back piece to make getting out of a sedan easier.

[Dano77]

Thats not the point. They cant tip thier head forward to clear the cage. I have a similar issue due to Hieght in the car. Im going to have to scoot my ass down to clear the hoop and window opening to get out with the dumb thing on.

Maybe I need a removable steering coloumn, and the dash board needs to come out to,along with the heater case, and the rear hatch glass ,and all the other stuff that my IT car still needs.

Hmmm maybe safty will get my car to minimum weight afterall.




Ok Im done now
Dan 77 IT7/A

[JohnW8]

They should look at the HAN's Sport II. It was designed with a shorter and rounder back piece to make getting out of a sedan easier.

I personally don't get hung up on the Hans itself, I can't easily duck my head with the HANS on to get my helmeted head aimed out the door. I can do it but I sure would hate to try it in a hurry, upside down and on fire in a snowstorm with sharks circling.:blink:

[CRallo]

Don't get me wrong... I am in no way a fan of the HANS. Just choosing my battles :/

there is a reason the HANS sticker on my racecar is upside down...

[lateapex911]

An alternative:

http://www.necksgen.com/

Looks like a new and improved HANS, or DeFender. I wonder if this version will get sued??
They are pretty vague about performance.
Price looks decent.

[Knestis]

I was walking around the grid @ the last Regional, talking to old friends. Old friends.
Two said that they cant get out of their cars with the helmets on. The HANs keeps them from tipping their heads out the door .
Fire escape?
How should this be adressed? Or should it at all?
The race cars would have to remove or reengineer the driver door bars, much lower.
Before you race your car this year,find a way out, with your eyes closed and helmet on, IMHO.
MM

Really?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=OKQz5CO-1sI)

[JoshS]

Thats not the point. They cant tip thier head forward to clear the cage.

I don't understand. I've been using a HANS since 2004. I cannot figure out how this could be true. With the harness unbuckled, the HANS does not limit forward head movement.

[924Guy]

An alternative:

http://www.necksgen.com/

Looks like a new and improved HANS, or DeFender. I wonder if this version will get sued??
They are pretty vague about performance.
Price looks decent.

Vague about performance - that's putting it mildly! The only thing they have pics of is their promotional materials! Everything else is CAD renderings.

Don't get me wrong, I do like what I see and I appreciate a new competitor - but I wouldn't feel comfortable till I see more on there, like "About Us" and more photos, stuff in use, etc.

Very new. Very, very new.

[StephenB]

I have the HANS and an RX8 with Halo seets similar to the person you mentioned above. I have NO issues getting out of the car... BUT that is when I am calm and collected in the pits but who knows what will happen on track! With that being said the only thing I can do is prepare. If any of you don't practice this every weekend you race then you really can't blame the safety equipment.

Side story: My daughter started to walk a few months ago, I put shoes on her and she was pissed, started crawling again because it was harder. does that mean I should take them off? NO she kept practicing and now she is a pro and running all over. Moral of the story. PRACTICE over and over again until you can do it.

I practice by taking paper or even a shirt and stuff it in the visor so I can't see a damn thing. then my crew times me how long it takes to get out of the car. anything over 8 seconds is to long for me nowadays. BUT in the begining it took 15+ seconds. I started doing this at my last event last year and will ALWAYS do this for as long as I race going forward. I remember the first time I did it I forgot that the steering wheel comes off. Took me 20+ seconds as I tried to sqeeze between the steering wheel, halo and rollbar. Image if the first time I tried to actually get out was on track? How many of us take off our helmet in the car before we get out when we come in? why? use that moment for more practice.

Keep practicing,
Stephen

[Flyinglizard]

It looks like the key is to sit the driver inside car, fully suited,(" Hanned up" ), before you install the driver door bars. Maybe lower the seats also. The SM has the seat on the floor already with the braces cut away.
Both of these cars will have lower side bars next time around.

[Knestis]

Vague about performance - that's putting it mildly! The only thing they have pics of is their promotional materials! Everything else is CAD renderings.

Don't get me wrong, I do like what I see and I appreciate a new competitor - but I wouldn't feel comfortable till I see more on there, like "About Us" and more photos, stuff in use, etc.

Very new. Very, very new.

It's certified. That's all you need to know. That's all you neeeeeed to knowwww... That's allllll you neeeeeeeeeeeeeed to knowwwwwwwwww... Your eyelids are getting verrrry heavy... Now, reach for your wallet.

K

[lateapex911]

I really really would want to see all the numbers on that. I think the geometry is much different than most of the others, and wonder about neck compression. Of course, I am NO smart biomechanics doctor type, but even though it passed, i wanna know more,
GLAD to see an alternative, but...

[Chip42]

Note that the contact address on the Necksgen is the same as DefNder:

1176 Greenfield Drive
El Cajon, California 92021
fax: 619.448.0917

shouldn't be long before the lawyer swarm is released from the hubbard/downing hive. in the mean time, kudos to the best version of a HANS-like device for sticking to it!

[MMiskoe]

Just for shits & giggles, has anyone looked at the relative difference between the need to keep your head teathered in an accident vrs the need to exit a car quickly? Seems like although there are lots of crashes, there are relatively few fires. If there was no need to get out quickly, I don't see that the HANS is the right tool. Seems you would have a teather from the helmet to the seat/roll cage. But the powers that be want to have a 'single point of release'. But w/ high door bars, big containment seats, side nets, radios, cool suits etc, very few cars actually have one item to release before trying to get out of the car. How many people can actually get out w/ the steering wheel in place? So have we followed this standard on one hand while ignoring on others, thus leading us astray from a potentially better solution?

FWIW I want to know how many people have been involved in a crash that was not straight on and had their belts come off the HANS leaving them slack. At least once every weekend I find my belts aren't right mid race and have to fix them. HANS adamantly declares it is user error, poor belt placement, but certianly not their device. 'the belts WILL NOT come off the HANS if properly installed' was their response when I called.

I know, the horse bolted from the barn a long time ago, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to gather data and learn from it.

[JIgou]

Vague about performance - that's putting it mildly! The only thing they have pics of is their promotional materials! Everything else is CAD renderings.

Don't get me wrong, I do like what I see and I appreciate a new competitor - but I wouldn't feel comfortable till I see more on there, like "About Us" and more photos, stuff in use, etc.

Very new. Very, very new.

That says "same folks as the defNder" to me as well. When they came to market with their initial offering, it irritated me to no end that the details were vague. (That and the screwy spelling / caps thing).

[Dano77]

"Nextgen doe's not do buisness in Georgia,sorry for the inconvience" THAT IS AWESOME.........

[jjjanos]

Seems like although there are lots of crashes, there are relatively few fires.

In all likelihood, the risk of permanent injury including death in reverse order are:

1. Heart attack
2. Collision-induced injury, excluding fire
3. Fire.

If SCCA were to do a risk versus reward analysis of its safety equipment rules, we wouldn't be wearing nomex. Heart attacks probably are the number one killer of SCCA drivers while in the car or immediately following and wrapping yourself into a giant layer of insulation, climbing into a hot race car and exerting yourself = great gobs of strain on the heart.

We pant and our hearts continue to race after we get out of the car, not because we are out of shape, but because our bodies are trying to eliminate thermal energy.

[tom91ita]

In all likelihood, the risk of permanent injury including death in reverse order are:

1. Heart attack
2. Collision-induced injury, excluding fire
3. Fire.

If SCCA were to do a risk versus reward analysis of its safety equipment rules, we wouldn't be wearing nomex. Heart attacks probably are the number one killer of SCCA drivers while in the car or immediately following and wrapping yourself into a giant layer of insulation, climbing into a hot race car and exerting yourself = great gobs of strain on the heart.

We pant and our hearts continue to race after we get out of the car, not because we are out of shape, but because our bodies are trying to eliminate thermal energy.

Hey! thanks a lot! now SFI cool suits are on the horizon! :blink:

/sarcasm....

[1stgen]

I don't understand. I've been using a HANS since 2004. I cannot figure out how this could be true. With the harness unbuckled, the HANS does not limit forward head movement.
I'm with u on this one, once the belts are off the hans doesnt do anything but sit on your neck. If you cant navigate getting out with it sitting on you... Well then you probably have a hard time getting up period. Dont. Lame it on the safety device, the hans works well and if your of normal stature, not a problem at all.

[23racer]

When I first tried a Hans in my RX7, the only way I could get into the car was to crawl in head first over into the passenger side then swing my legs under the column and drop into the seat. I have a pretty long torso compared to leg length and with the Kirkey head restraint halo's and the low roof line of the RX7, it was the only way in with the Hans on.

After that I bought a DefNder and it is a bit easier to get in and out, but it is still a monster effort with a fair bit of contorting to get out. After some practice I can get out of the car like a normal human being, but when I want to do it fast, I revert back to the older swing the upper part of my torso over the passenger side and come out legs first.

In my Cougar, the door opening is a lot larger and it uses a Sparco with head halo's. In that car, I slide in legs first, then I have to twist my upper body to a 45 degree angle and twist into the seat area, then fall into the seat. To get out, I have to take off the wheel, grab the cage support bar, lean forward until I clear the halo then twist sideways and bail out onto the road. Not graceful, but it works.

I know I am safer and yes I can get out of both cars inside of 8 seconds, but I wonder how easy it would be for a marshal to pull me out of either car if I was inconscious.....

Eric

[dgragu]

Is the Necksgen legal for scca. Also has anyone had the chance to compare to a Hans

[lateapex911]

They claim it's SFI 38.1 approved, so, it must be SCCA compliant, as thats teh only theing SCCA allows.

Don't know about HANS comparisons. The sled numbers for the HANS are sorta out there, but this is totally an unknown other than them saying "It passed"

[StephenB]

Eric, try putting your HANS on after you get in. its actually very easy.

Stephen

[jimmy p]

They claim it's SFI 38.1 approved, so, it must be SCCA compliant, as thats teh only theing SCCA allows.

I believe FIA FIA 8858 is also accepted (without SFI 38.1)

Either SFI 38.1 -or- FIA 8858 (or both obviously).

[23racer]

Eric, try putting your HANS on after you get in. its actually very easy.

Stephen


I actually do that 99.4% of the time, :D, but I test to see how fast I can get out with the DefNder on. I also use the cars in multi-driver enduros, so I need to test and practice getting in and out with the device on as well. Its a pain, but it does work.

Eric

[Ralf]

Has anybody used neckgen's "contact us" page and gotten a response? I sent them a message last thursday and haven't heard back from them.

[lateapex911]

Yes, they responded to me....
I asked for more data, they said they are working on it...

On edit, I followed up with a specific query, but it's been days, and no response since.

[Ralf]

So do they have actual products ready to ship? Pictures on the web site are computer generated ones.

[lateapex911]

I got an email, and test results are up

http://www.necksgen.com/necksgentesting.html

[Racerlinn]

Somebody explain this:

"NecksGen does not do business in Georgia"

[lateapex911]

Somebody explain this:

"NecksGen does not do business in Georgia"

HANS is based in Georgia, I think/ I know thats where Downing is....
So, is it a joke??

[JoshS]

If Necksgen is really v2 of the defender company, maybe not doing business in GA is part of the lawsuit settlement?

[Ralf]

Took the plunge on the NecksGen because,
1) Its cheaper than the HANS.
2) Adjustable from 10-40 degrees. No need to figure out what size neck I have or what angle I need to buy for my seat or size.
3) Has side protection.
4) No cumbersom harness to strap on

On to the pictures.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6866130826_f0ebc6ca12_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralf_lindow/6866130826/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/7011851857_ccfa7951af_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralf_lindow/7011851857/)


Just insert tab into latch on helmet.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7084/6865737452_8bcd2dbcd7_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralf_lindow/6865737452/)

Release by pushing down on the top button or pull the small lanyard. I wouldn't use the small lanyard though since the metal ring is pretty thin.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7042/7011852571_db864b80e3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralf_lindow/7011852571/)

Kit also comes with other d-rings to make the device non-removable and all the tools you need to install the latch or adjust the angle. Carrying case, baseball cap, stickers and uniform patch also included.

[CRallo]

Thanks for posting, I'm going to look into these.

[BruceG]

Somebody explain this:

"NecksGen does not do business in Georgia"

Perhaps the new tethers cause a "redneck"?.....LOL

[JLawton]

Took the plunge on the NecksGen because,
1) Its cheaper than the HANS.
2) Adjustable from 10-40 degrees. No need to figure out what size neck I have or what angle I need to buy for my seat or size.
3) Has side protection.
4) No cumbersom harness to strap on

On to the pictures.





Just insert tab into latch on helmet.



Release by pushing down on the top button or pull the small lanyard. I wouldn't use the small lanyard though since the metal ring is pretty thin.



Kit also comes with other d-rings to make the device non-removable and all the tools you need to install the latch or adjust the angle. Carrying case, baseball cap, stickers and uniform patch also included.


Good stuff. I was within days of pulling the trigger on a Rage Hybride but this looks much less complicated to get into. Couple questions. How difficult/easy is it to clip into? How is the comfort against the seat back? Will you be able to get into the car and then put it on? Does it mount into existing HANs anchor points?

Thank!!

[RacerBill]

If Necksgen is really v2 of the defender company, maybe not doing business in GA is part of the lawsuit settlement?

Addresses for defNder and Neckgen are the same..... just sayin'

[Ralf]

Good stuff. I was within days of pulling the trigger on a Rage Hybride but this looks much less complicated to get into. Couple questions. How difficult/easy is it to clip into? How is the comfort against the seat back? Will you be able to get into the car and then put it on? Does it mount into existing HANs anchor points?

Thank!!

I only tried it a couple of times in the car to get an idea of how easy it will be to clip in or just putting it on with the helmet. Either one will work. It wasn't too difficult finding the latch and clip and I'm sure will get easier with practice. I have enough room in my car, so I also tried leaving it clipped to the helmet and then slipping everything over my head and that worked too. Made clipping in the 5 point harness a bit harder though since I usually clip my harness together while I can see. Helmet usually goes on just prior to the gloves at the 5 minute warning.
Didn't feel it against my seat. You just feel the added pressure on your shoulders but not the collar bone since its a flexible pad.
I didn't have existing HANs anchors in my Simpson helmet, but it did have pre-drilled holes that I used. Their web site has a FAQ section that answers a lot of questions.
www.necksgen.com (http://www.necksgen.com)

[Streetwise guy]

I'm 6'2", 240 and I can get out of a full containment seat in a Super Late Model stock car with my helmet and hans on.

Its not the fundamental embodiement of evil some of you guys think.:D

[downingracing]

I'm 6'2", 240 and I can get out of a full containment seat in a Super Late Model stock car with my helmet and hans on.

Its not the fundamental embodiement of evil some of you guys think.:D

Yes it is. :D

[downingracing]

Order placed Today for www.necksgen.com (http://www.necksgen.com/) .

[tom91ita]

i recently ordered the Hybrid Pro Rage (hope i said that right).

i basically got tired of trying to figure this out or waiting for the next best thing.

i think the necksgen is really interesting though. i like the tab instead of the "pin" that the defender had. i was not impressed when crewing for someone that had one and having to learn the "secrets" of getting it connected.

[Simon T.]

Some eBay businesses have them and don't mention not shipping to GA so I may order one soon, or have it shipped to an out of state friend. lol

[23racer]

i recently ordered the Hybrid Pro Rage (hope i said that right).

i basically got tired of trying to figure this out or waiting for the next best thing.

i think the necksgen is really interesting though. i like the tab instead of the "pin" that the defender had. i was not impressed when crewing for someone that had one and having to learn the "secrets" of getting it connected.

That is the major issue that I have with mine. I ended up having to polish the interface between the pin and the latch to make it sorta easy to connect them together. Even with this extra effort, I still have to do a reality check on the latch a couple of times.

Eric