bolt in cage and new log book

[igrip]

Hi everyone,

I am looking at a ITA CRX with no log book...had one once an owner ago but no longer. It has an autopower bolt in cage (dual nascar door bars though). Will that be an issue with a new log book registration? Looked at the GCR but was bit confused. Any help or a point in the right direction would be great..thank you.

[dickita15]

I would be very careful to make sure that the cage meets the current rules in the GCR. The best option would be to have someone knowledgeable, preferably a tech inspector check out the car including measuring the cage before you buy it. If the car meets the safety rules a new logbook is pretty easy.

[joeg]

The specific concern would be whether the tubing for the cage is D.O.M and meets at least minimum o.d. and i.d. (1.5 X.090 I believe). It is probably dimensionally correct, but the material--not sure.

Without a log book, you have to get it registered as a new build.

[Knestis]

Most Autopower cages were 1.75 OD. I'm going to GUESS that it will probably be OK but you must get it looked at first...

HOWEVER, if you can find the rollbar stamp with the original logbook number, you might actually be "getting a replacement logbook" rather than "logbooking a new car," if the difference makes sense...?

K

[Flyinglizard]

Every Autopower cage is way heavy but never has been under tube size wise. Most are ERW, 1.75x125wall or so.
Not a problem there. Make sure that the pads are not welded to the floor, but are welded to a sill connector plate ,( not the floor.) SCCA will pass the welded pads, but they are not safe. Bolted in , not welded is safer. "Punch through" happens real easy if you just weld the pads without sill riser connectors.

If the car had a logbook, the # should be stamped on the pass side of the downtube/Hoop.
Some of the tech guys have gotten older, and stamped the pass side door bar.
If you know the prior owners name, you could look for results and contact that region looking for the reg info , including the logbook #.
Pictures would help.
Just get a new loog book ,is the best way, IMHO. MM

[joeg]

Mike-ERW would be a problem if deemed a new build.

[igrip]

Thank you all for the quick responses...I will go look at it this afternoon and try to see if logbook number stamped anywhere on cage. That will be step one.

[lateapex911]

To clarify....or confuse....IF it has a number on the cage, it can meet some of the older requirements, and only need updating. (Such as adding passenger side door bars, should it not have them)
If it's ERW tubing, for instance, AND it has a number, you could be OK, I think. But, if the tubing is ERW and it has no number, you will have to meet the current regs, and the cage would have to come out completely.

(A good way to tell ERW is to look for evidence of a seam running the length of the tubing.)

Measuring the cage is easy, and the thickness isn't too bad either. Drill a hole per the GCRs requirement and then measure the depth to the other side. Math yeilds the tubing thickness.

[Simon T.]

I bought my car without a logbook, it was a SSC car, bolt in Autopower cage. I made sure it was DOM then added the extra door bars.

There was a stamp on the cage that we eventually found, when the car went through tech they found the stamp and gave me a new book writing that it was a re-issued book.

I guess if it did race it would have a stamp somewhere. :shrug: Mine was on the main hoop on the passenger side, it was very tough to see, I never even saw it even when painting the cage.

[igrip]

Just came back from looking at the car again. Sure am glad it is local.

Rollcage does have some etching on it right below the hole that was drilled...on the passenger side. Number looks like 5 digits..
39712 perhaps?

And another realization...engine is not stock block..it is a zc which is JDM. Head is a PM3 which I believe came with that motor.

Have to check GCR for that legality in a moment...just wanted to post rollcage results first. And it does have two drivers side door bars.

Now, to SCCA to give them the number to see if they can look it up? If engine is legal for ITA, that should be my next step?

Thank you again to all.

[lateapex911]

1- sounds like an SCCA number. Contact the local tech dude where the car was originally built, if possible.
2-Engine is not IT legal, I'm afraid. needs to be the American motor.

[Greg Amy]

Rollcage does have some etching on it right below the hole that was drilled...on the passenger side. Number looks like 5 digits...39712 perhaps?
See GCR 9.2.1.F about that number. The first two numbers are the region that issued the logbook - "39" is Steel Cities Region (http://www.steelcities-scca.org/) in Pennsylvania - and the next three are consecutive issuance numbers (yours was the 712th on issued). This page (http://www.steelcities-scca.org/RoadRacing/board.asp) has the contact info for the Scrutineering Chief for Steel Cities Region; call/email him and ask him to look up that logbook number and see if it corresponds to your car. Even better, if you are near where he/she lives, trailer the car to them for a verification, and they can issue to you a new "lost" logbook so that you only have to meet those regs in which the cage was initially inspected, plus any new requirements since then.

GA

[igrip]

From GCR. Not sure which part of it would say no JDM motor if it is specifically same size...I think. I may be missing something:

To maintain the stock basis of Improved Touring, updating and/or back- dating of components is only permitted within cars of the same make, model, body type (e.g., sedan, station wagon, convertible, etc.), and engine size as listed on a single Improved Touring Specification Line. Any updated/backdated components shall be substituted as a complete assembly (engine long block, transmission/transaxle, induction system, differential/axle housing). No interchange of parts between assemblies is permitted, and all parts of an assembly shall be as originally produced for that assembly

[Greg Amy]

iGrip (what's your name?) you missed this note in the first paragraph in "Purpose":

"To that end, cars will be models, as offered for sale in the United States. They will be prepared to manufacturer’s specifications except for modifications permitted by these rules."

Gotta use US-market stuff.

GA

[joeg]

Follow Greg's advice about the cage--if you can get the Steel City's tech guy to inspect and reissue the book you will be in fine shape.

Greg is correct about the motor, but that should not be a concern for the log book re-issuance (especially with the cage).

[igrip]

I am in Texas unfortunately...so that cage guy can look it up, and I will send an email to him this weekend, but he won't be able to 'check it' physically.

I am concerned about the 'wrong' motor though..if not ITA legal, then that is not the car for me as I like the class.

[joeg]

If you luck out with the tech inspector and that cage, you will have enough money for the correct motor.

[igrip]

Thank you all for the advice and tips. I think at this rate, this car is a 'pass' on a purchase. Adding necessary passenger door bars, getting logbook done and swapping motors....make this not an attractive deal anymore. Will keep eyes open on the classifieds for a more 'ready to race' car that I can take out tomorrow theoretically.

Rami

[Simon T.]

Don't let something as simple as door bars detour you, I bought mine without a logbook and bars, easy to get new bars in, the engine may be a bad thing, but if everything else is there you could run it in some random class for the time being...or trade the ZC for the D16 it should have for ITA to some kid on Honda-Tech plus some cash..the cash could fund your bars!

I spent $50 on extra door bars, bought the tubing from a tube supplier, had a friend bend and weld them in, boom done.

[RSTPerformance]

You don't need a legal motor to go to drivers school and you will probably want to replace it in the first year anyhow... Post pics/price of the car and plenty of people here will tell you if it is a good deal or not!

Good luck;

Raymond

[igrip]

Here is the Craigslist ad for the car:

http://collegestation.craigslist.org/cto/2780039285.html

It does look good. But, I have already done my racing school back in 08 and own a RX7 - 1st gen...and have raced ITA in RX7s and rented an ITA miata once. Was just looking for a change when I saw this car for sale.

However, looks like an opportunity turned up for me to race CMC with a friend in his Mustang....that sounds like a fun season. NASA racing, 6 races for the season so that will be a fun experience.

I appreciate all the help.