Race Technology dl1 & dash2

[StephenB]

Hello all,

Thinking about purchasing data aquisition and a Dash for the RX8. (Time frame would be April) I am starting to do a little research on different set-ups and I think I want to go with the Race Technology dl1 & dash2 package. I know this has been talked about before but I couldn't find any threads. I am pretty sure this is plug and play with an adaptor from them. Any comments or suggestions? I know flat-out sells them and they race at almost all the races I race at, plus they are always a good group and would probably answer a question if I had one. But if anyone knows of a used set-up somewhere that is selling for less that would be a bonus :)

Thanks for any/all comments
Stephen

[gran racing]

A lot of people in the N.E. use this. Greg Amy has his fair share of coaching with these systems too. I have both and probably wouldn't purchase the DASH2 again if had to do it all over.

[StephenB]

Dave, Why not the dash 2? What would you do instead?

[gran racing]

OEM tack and speedo. Then separate oil and temp gauges.

Maybe something like the below? I just feel that I'm not getting much, if any more value out of having the other type digital display. Yes, it does lap times (I actually turn that off and feel it has in ways imposed limits on me in the past) and some other features.

I personally don't need a shift light, but maybe that's just my own opinion. A lap counter would be the only item I'd like on my dash, but that's not even on the darn DASH2 unless it was just recently added. Pretty annoying it's not.

Now granted, it does look kinda cool but can think of better ways of spending the money. I imagine others will chime in and say it's the best thing ever. :)

http://www.longacreracing.com/images/products/gauge_panel/44442.jpg

[Andy Bettencourt]

So I am a convert. I love regular gauges but there is a ton of value having all of your critical and 'other' data on one display. We have it set up so that you can toggle to oil and water temps if you want to check them but set up warnings when they get to a level you choose.

Not having to look all over your dash or center stack for stuff is nice.

I like seeing lap times as it tells me when I can come in during qualifying to not risk equipment or use up consumables. It also tells me about my 'pace'. Crank it up? Dial it back? We also set up the integrated video to mirror the Dash display.

[StephenB]

So I am a convert. I love regular gauges but there is a ton of value having all of your critical and 'other' data on one display. We have it set up so that you can toggle to oil and water temps if you want to check them but set up warnings when they get to a level you choose.

Not having to look all over your dash or center stack for stuff is nice.

I like seeing lap times as it tells me when I can come in during qualifying to not risk equipment or use up consumables. It also tells me about my 'pace'. Crank it up? Dial it back? We also set up the integrated video to mirror the Dash display.

Those are all the things that I WANT... Basically looking at the center dash is easy when lapping but when in the heat of battle it gets real difficult real fast to keep checking. Plus this rotary thing sounds nothing like a 5cyl. I looked down at the tach the first time I drove it up the back straight at the glen and was well over 10K RPM and had no clue!!!

My current setup has oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, trans temp, and diff temp. Stock guages are basically dummy lights for everything but fuel level. I really would like the warning lights when it is something I need to look at, but be able to set them to come on well before the stock dummy light since that is usually to late to help. I would also love to have lap times. Does the Dash2 have a ghost car feature?

Stephen

[MMiskoe]

Having driven a car that had both guages and a warning light, the light was the ticket. We lost the water pump belt once and in looking at the data after the fact I probably would not have seen the temp guage for at least another 30 seconds if not twice that long if the warning light didn't make me look. However the data showed that the voltage had dropped (when the belt came off) and the temps started to climb since I was still on it. Once I backed off temps stablized for the remainder of the lap. We put the belt back on and all was good, no damage done. Moral of the story is that a good warning light is better than a guage and you can do that w/o a fancy data system. We just plumbed a thermal switch into the upper radiator hose, wired back to a $3 light from Radio shack.


I have a Dash 3 in my car and like it alot, but all I use it for is lap times. However, the DL-1 will not support the Dash-3 and an OBDII pickup. I belieive the Dash2 can be used w/ the OBDII pick up. That is worth somthing since it saves effort on wiring for engine data. The rest of the data is great to look at after the fact, especially if you have more than on driver in the car.

[gran racing]

Stephen, your guages are also mounted in a location where it would take effort to look at. The above photo I believe has the dummy lights.

The DASH2 doesn't have ghost times, but it does include predictive lap times based on previous best segments and what you've done thus far in a lap.

I guess there are pros and cons of lap times. In the past I had lap times displayed, but found after I turned it off I started turning better times. Honestly could be that Andy has better focus on that than me. I found myself hitting a mark (say a 1:03.7 at LRP) then saying that's good enough when in reality a 1:03.3 or better was more than possible.

I do think lap times are great for longer stints or if you find yourself out by yourself. There have been couple times at the Glen where no one was around me and I knew my lap times were suffering. With it being displayed, it gave me something to go after.

It sounds like Stephen already got the go ahead on this toy so the decision was already made before starting the thread. :)

[Andy Bettencourt]

So Dave, without the lap time option, you limit yourself. At least this way you can have it if you want it.

Yes, you were the limiting factor in your scenario! Every on-track session may have a different goal for your reference. Qualifying, I have a target. If I see that target and I then start to hit traffic, I bring it it. If I don't see what I think will be PP, then I stay out.

In a race, it just may be to tell you that you have gotten into a rut and need to pick it up. Who knows, but letting it limit you is in your head and can be overcome...but at least have it at your disposal.

Test day? Invaluable.

There are no cons to knowing your lap times unless you let them be cons.

Having everything in a center-stack is what I need. It's the easiest way to know what you need to know when you need to know it in the safest possible way IMHO.

[StephenB]

Dave, I have the go ahead to spend some money but I am open to other ideas. The gauges you mention would cost about 1/2 as much as the display plus you need to be creative mounting them. As you said mine are not in the best visible location. Any other good ideas? No one up here uses an AIM. I am going to give bill a call with race keeper as well.

Stephen

[ulfelder]

I love having my trick Dash-2 setup. Because then I can not look at the Dash-2. Which is cooler than not looking at analog gauges, and much cooler than not looking at a stock dash.

(I need a big-ass shift light shining in my face. That's about all I pay attention to beside the track ahead. I am not proud of this.)

[gran racing]

Qualifying, I have a target.As have I in the past defined it by a number. Now I go much more by feel as in, how much better do I really think there is out there in these track conditions, on this given day? I also know this varies greatly from driver to driver, including their driving style and how they handle qualifying. I also believe too many drivers target a specific lap time, and they place self-imposed limitations. Again, not saying that's what you do.

Stephen, I don't think it's a bad investment. I just know we're fairly similar in many respects including budget. Okay, so try this. Buy the DASH2 but do NOT ruin your OEM cluster thinking that would be a great place to mount this. Who would ever do such a silly thing? Err, me! The DASH2 will hold value so worst case you sell it so your bother. I'm also not saying you won't see some benefits from it, just wondered if you'd see more in other areas.

So what you're saying Steve is you're stuck in a dash purgatory? Oh God. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[SPiFF]

I am using a DASH3 and really like it. I have oil and other vitals logged with warnings but the 3 most used features in order are:

1) shift lights
2) lap timer
3) lap counter

The Race Technology software is rather Byzantine but the logger and the DASH products are great.

[lateapex911]

Jeeez, it's invaluable, esp for a one man show.

I've had issues, and studied data, and found the problem. That weird miss? Turns out voltage was dropping in a certain place on the track, a bump in a corner. Traced it to a failing master switch.
Watchingthe oil pressure traces, fuel pressure traces, etc can be very revealing.
For tuning the OX reading is really helpful as well.
AIM plugs it's CAN system into many ECUs, so there's a ton of data logging capability there too.
I program the shift lights to be green only after the engine is in the power band. Then the yellow and red are the shift indicators.
I've gotten pressure sensors and monitored airbox pressures to ensure I have a good feed to the engine. (I programmed this to toggle the warning lights so I could see pressure changes in real time. Does following a car change airbox pressures? Easy to see...)
Cheap air temp sensors are good for monitoring underhood temps...
It logs EGTs as well, so I an track which rotor is doing what.

And on and on...

Then there's the lap timing stuff. LOL

[titanium]

Andy,
Will any of the cars you have at Sebring next week be equipped with dash2 or 3 system?
I would like to stop by and take a look at it.

[924Guy]

I've been running a DL1 with Dash3 in my DSR - only dash that'll fit in the tiny little cockpit without serious work.

Only problem is that I can't see anything other than lights in the car; the open-cockpit pretty much kills the legibility of the dash at high speed - and anything other than a cooldown lap is high-speed in that beasty. I suspect I'd be much better off with that dash in a closed-cockpit car, without the glare issue. Configurable dash displays are nice, though.

Purportedly the Dash4 is more legible, but still giving some up in visibility in relation to other cars, it seems.

I do find, in the ITB car, that knowing my lap times is very important. I'm too busy in the DSR trying to hang on and not kill myself to worry about lap times till I get out. ;)

For me, the big draws of the DL1 (as compared to others, such as the AIM MyChron3 I have in the ITB car) are the analogs and data analysis capabilities. Twice the analogs of the AIM (8 vs 4), plus GPS and full accelerometer package (need to get this updated to 6g capability), and more complex data analysis options. I aim to add suspension position analysis to the car this year, along with more warning lights.

I'll end up using the dash for little more than a shift light while in the car, at least till I can get more comfortable in the car and have more time to look at the dash. But it's still a very useful piece, and I still have yet to tap into the ECU...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy,
Will any of the cars you have at Sebring next week be equipped with dash2 or 3 system?
I would like to stop by and take a look at it.

They all will...all integrated to the Video system as well.

[StephenB]

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on one of these:

Motec ADL2-
Pro-Logging
8 Mb Logging
30 In/Outputs

[Andy Bettencourt]

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on one of these:

Motec ADL2-
Pro-Logging
8 Mb Logging
30 In/Outputs

Don't do it. Is it a good system, yes. Do yourself a favor, get the RT stuff. Most everyone in NE has them and you will be able to do some actual comparisons and get that much more out of your investment.

[StephenB]

ya I don't know much about this stuff at all to be honest... But I badly want to learn as I KNOW it will make me much better! I saw this bad boy above used for about 3K and wasn't sure if it actually tapped into the car to allow you to do dyno tuning like with a regular Motec. (I think this normally runs for double that) If so it seems like a good deal if the dyno guy down the street understands it.

Stephen

[jlucas]

Might have a demo DL1Mk2+Gyro+DASH3full coming up for sale shortly if that's of any interest. There is also a DASH2pro coming out soon.

(Vaughn, DASH4 is nice but the OLEDs are not a good choice for an open top car)

edit: clarified the DASH2pro is a yet to be released product

[StephenB]

Jeremy,

Glad you posted! Several people told me to contact you either if I go used or new they said I should talk to you! I may have a conection on a DL1 (MK2) but it does not include a dash or any other accesories. Let me know either here or through PM what you have available. I am always looking for a deal so a Demo is perfect! I did like the Dash 2 Display better as it seemed like it has more info available but lets be honest... will I really read all that! I guess my biggest concern with whatever I go with is that I would also like this to be user freindly and just plug into the car rather than adding sensors! If I do go with a Race Technology system I assume to do this I will need a "CAN OBD2 Interface System" but not sure how to verify this.


Thanks,
Stephen

[Knestis]

Another big +1 for Jeremy!

K

[CRallo]

Jeremy has done me well!

[Z3_GoCar]

A DL1+gyro+dash 3 sound perfect to my application, but I've got to wonder about taking data from the OBDII port? It's a first gen system on a Siemens MS 41.2 DME, is that a possibility? How much?

[jlucas]

Stephen, email sent with my contact info.

James, see this list for the max you could get out of an earlier OBD2 serial interface:
http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/SerialOBDII/SerialOBDIIDataOutputChannels
I can't say for sure what's available on your car. If you want to discuss further, just let me know.

If anyone has questions about these topic or others, just let me know.

Edit: I rarely have demo goods for sale but I frequent try to help previous customers connect with buyers for the current equipment when they are upgrading, as well as keeping an eye out for other used stuff that pops up on the market.

ps. Overly simplified: a DASH2Pro is a dash & logger in one unit.

[Matt93SE]

Jeremy, I'd be interested in something that would interface with an Autronic SM2 if you happen to run across something affordable. I had a line on a DL1 Mk1, but it was sold a few minutes before I threw my bid in. doh. Anyway, please let me know if you happen to get someone looking for a trade-in or whatever. :) matt_at_mattblehm_dot_com

[StephenB]

Just wanted to share that JEREMY was awesome to deal with and I would deal with him in heartbeat again! He was great to deal with through the entire process and at the end he not only sent me the tracking number but informed me that they attempted to drop it off! He was more then helpfull with some of my dumb questions as well, he never made me feel stupid at all :)

I got everything well packaged today including a CAN OBDII port and video sync. I am sure I will have questions about it at some point :)

Thanks again Jeremy,
Stephen

[vicktorvolpe]

I know i'm late to this party, but I'm a big fan of my DL-1 and my Dash 2. That being said we had some issues at first, and RT support in the US is not that great. Nick and Andy at Flatout were a big help with the issues though, and now it's up and running really well.

Bought the stuff to sync video over the winter, and will be trying out in the spring.

I know it doesn't do "ghost" times, but having the sectors set in a few key places is nice for checking predictive lap times. For me, it's a much more finely tuned way of checking things out coming out of a key corner than seeing what my RPM's are.

-Vick

[monsterbronco]

Jeremy,

So the dash4pro is not really worth it? is that what you are saying?

I am looking for a dash for my DL1: all i really want is RPM and lap time/predictive lap time data.

Thanks
Wes

[CRallo]

Bought the stuff to sync video over the winter, and will be trying out in the spring.

I know it doesn't do "ghost" times, but having the sectors set in a few key places is nice for checking predictive lap times. For me, it's a much more finely tuned way of checking things out coming out of a key corner than seeing what my RPM's are.

-Vick

Tell me about the video sync stuff please and have you used it yet? work well?


Jeremy,

So the dash4pro is not really worth it? is that what you are saying?

I am looking for a dash for my DL1: all i really want is RPM and lap time/predictive lap time data.

Thanks
Wes

My understanding is that he spoke highly of it, BUT said that in an open top car the visibility might not be good.

Based on what you are saying, a Dash3 would be good for you, but there are two models to chose from...

[924Guy]

I've been using RaceRender to put video and data together.

I've found the Dash3 pretty much invisible in my DSR... but the speed of the car itself doesn't help. A friend has tried the Dash4Pro in his Vee, also complains about dash visibility, but he complains about just about everything. He still complains about being told he should ditch points and go to electronic ignition... ;)

That said, RaceTechnologies does know they have problems with dash visibility in open cars; seems like their latest Dash4 iteration (back to LCD based again) may work better. Even their webpages point this out...
http://www.race-technology.com/content.php?pcat=8&cat=31027

[Knestis]

I'm looking for a used DL1 if anyone knows of any. Email me at kirk.knestis(at)evaluand.com if you have leads.

K

[StephenB]

I'm looking for a used DL1 if anyone knows of any. Email me at kirk.knestis(at)evaluand.com if you have leads.

K

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/933806-fs-racing-technology-dash1-dl1-and-ecu-interface/

Stephen

[clockracer]

Another thumbs up for the DL1 and it's analysis software. Although I like the flexibility of the Racepak IQ3 display in my current car.