Engine mounts

[Ralf]

With the new engine mount rule out for 2012, what are your plans? What available options have you looked at or already bought and why?

[S2_ITBVW]

Well, the mounts have to be in the stock position and maintain the stock orientation of the engine and can't be rigid . . .

So, we are going to use stock mounts with Delrin bushings. That's about as close to rigid as you can get and keeps everything where it belongs.

Thoughts on this simple, not very innovative, but legal solution . . .?

DE

[Knestis]

I'm going to continue to use my stay rod.

But those of you who do go for new mounts, what are you going to do with your stayrod allowance? Seems like an interesting opportunity to build an additional chassis reinforcement into the front end.

K

[GTIspirit]

Are the VW mounts really that fragile and prone to self-destruction under racing as some people said in their support for this allowance?

For the Mk2 vehicles there is a poly insert available which is similar to this:
http://www.rapidparts.com/prod/22502-Polyurethane-Trans-Mount-A1/49
I have the original style horizontal bolt front engine mount, which is NLA, but maybe I can find a poly insert, or make my own urethane mount now that this is legal.

[Knestis]

The "my engine mounts break all the time" argument was a red herring from the outset. This was a typical "racing cars have cool aftermarket parts" deals from start to finish.

K

[shwah]

I plan to make new mounts, with a goal of dropping 5 pounds off the front axle. Basically exactly what we built for my buddies FProd car.

Once that and other projects are taken care of, I like the idea of using the stay rod allowance to stiffen the K-frame.

I still don't get the rule, and I lobbied against it because it does not solve any issue that was not already correctable before. However, if the allowance is there to drop front axle weight and stiffen the chassis, I'll try to take advantage of it.

[S2_ITBVW]

Everytime I begin to think I'm starting to understand what I'm doing I realize that I have no idea what's going on . . .

Sigh.

[Knestis]

Everytime I begin to think I'm starting to understand what I'm doing I realize that I have no idea what's going on . . .

Sigh.

How come...?

K

[JeffYoung]

I disagree with that. I think a large portion of the support for the rule came from folks who were routinely replacing engine mounts (count me among them) and saw allowing aftermarket mounts or Window Weld as a much simpler solution than a fabricated stay rod.

Dave, your delrin mounts are legal.


The "my engine mounts break all the time" argument was a red herring from the outset. This was a typical "racing cars have cool aftermarket parts" deals from start to finish.

K

[Ralf]

Delrin is also something I have been looking at.
So since engine relocation can't be done, does anybody know if the stock front (early style) and passenger rear mounts are centered or offset?

[jimbbski]

My solution was to just fill the voids in a new set of mounts with shore 80 liquid urethane. Stock location and still flexible so vibration to the body is not excessive.

[Ralf]

My solution was to just fill the voids in a new set of mounts with shore 80 liquid urethane. Stock location and still flexible so vibration to the body is not excessive.

I remember seeing a post on VWVortex about doing something like that but have not been able to find it using the search. The article even mentioned the material used and where to buy it.

[jimbbski]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#urethane-casting-compounds/=ffb61m

http://www.eagerplastics.com/

Both of these are local to me namely Chicago, IL.

[S2_ITBVW]

There are not a lot of aftermarket options for MkII front motor mounts. I'm sure you all have seen the solid billet aluminum mounts that are available from Black Forest Industries. I'm thinking about puchasing this then drilling out a portion of the mount and adding a delrin "sleeve" to make it "not solid." What do you all think of this idea? I seems to me that this is a fairly inexpensive solution that matches the letter of the law.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Sandro]

The "my engine mounts break all the time" argument was a red herring from the outset. This was a typical "racing cars have cool aftermarket parts" deals from start to finish.

K

Ask anyone with a MkI how many times they have replaced the lower/rear tranny mount. I used to buy them a couple at a time. Glad those days are over.

[Knestis]

Ask anyone with a [whatever] how many times they have replaced [whatever breaks or wears out too fast on that whatever].

Some cars DO have weaknesses but "it breaks a lot" is *not* sufficient argument for a new allowance in the ITCS.

K

[callard]

I for one am happy with the new allowance. Mercedes Benz mounts are about the size of large softballs, half solid rubber and half air bag. When the air bag pops, the engine can move about 2 1/4 inches in all directions. A stayrod doesn't solve my problem. Radiator is 1 inch away from the front pully. I've put in 5 radiators over the years. A mount can pop at any time even though I've been changing them. New ones are NLA and old ones supplies have dried up. I will be filling the air bag with urethane and my problem is finally solved.
Thanks ITAC and CRB for the rule change.
Chuck

[shwah]

For an A2 VW, the easy button would be to get the early style front motor mount, and buy the less than $20 polyurethane insert that firms it up.

I would imagine someone could take that billet one, and add some bushing material to one or both mounting points (think sway bar end bushing), to create some isolation.

[GTIspirit]

For an A2 VW, the easy button would be to get the early style front motor mount, and buy the less than $20 polyurethane insert that firms it up.


I thought the early style Mk2 front engine mounts, the horizontal bolt style, were NLA? A few years ago I saw a poly insert for the early style horizontal bolt mount, but I forget where. There is a HD front mount for the Mk2, not the fluid filled one, so that's an option. The other trick that some people on the Vortex do is use hockey pucks ILO the vertical bolt style front mount. Personally, I think some amount of compliance here is good, I'd rather have a mount break than the front crossmember break from vibration induced fractures.....

[shwah]

There are a bunch of early style front motor mounts in junk yards across the country. The hockey puck thing is another one I have seen, and would probably work fine.

[D. Ellis-Brown]

I must be missing something. I have run VW's for nearly 18 years, a Rabbit in ITB, a MKII GTI in ITB and now a MKIII Jetta in ITB, and even a Golf in the VW Cup. I have never broken an engine mount utilizing stock mounts. On the MKII's we found out from the VW Cup that the rear mount on the drivers side was weak, so one trick was to put a piece of chain between the flange where the mount attached to the chassis cross beam and the mounting bolt from transaxle, of course longer bolts were needed.On the front mount of the MRII, we stayed with the earlier style.... But on the MKIII we have never broken a mount. Use a stay rod on the front....(Like Dr. K) on the lower side. But still use stock parts for the rear engine mounts. You don't suppose that the root cause of the breakage is from something else?. Welded diff's, driving style, etc..... What other parts are failing or have limited life?. ... Just a thought. Race and have fun....
David Ellis-Brown

[shwah]

I have never had a mount problem either. However I have on occasion wished the motor moved less to make the shift linkage work better in mid high g corner situations.

[Flyinglizard]

I stuff the pass side mount with welded in washers to keep the engine from moving side to side and jamming the axles. I also use a limit chain on the front mount, from bottom bolt to starter bolt.
Real men go fast with a welded diff.
MM

[Knestis]

... Real men go fast with a welded diff.
MM

Amen, Brother Lizard! I to have seen the light and gone back to the old school. I have known the KAZ. I was seduced by the Quaiffe. But I have come home to the glory, and the blessing, and the traction of the spool.

Praise grip.

K

[Lael Cleland]

I am making a front & rear mounts out of dellen(sp)? for out MK1s, just happen to have a block of it layin around.. But I have blown my share of headers, flex pipes, shift linkage, diesel oil filter hitting the radiator, blown inner CV's, and cracked my block with a stay bar.. YAY! Love the rule for MK1s!!!!