Converting a SM Miata to an ITA Miata

[Abhi]

This past season I ran a few ITA races in my 95 Miata SM car. I was thinking of converting the car to a full ITA car for next season and was looking for some advice on what is worth doing, given that I am on a budget.

(Andy Bettencourt… are you out there? You had the fastest ITA Miata out there. )

So my questions:
1. It is worth doing an ITA exhaust and intake? I saw both on ISCRACING’s website.

2. What about a computer? Is the Megasquirt worth getting? I do have access to a dyno at Kessler Engineering to get it tuned.

3. How about suspension? The spherical bearings and fancy bushings for the control arms look pricey. When you add a set of shocks, it is a lot of $$$. Would an ITA Miata be competitive running the SM spec suspension?

4. How about things like a front air dam?

What else would I need to do to convert the SM car to a competitive ITA car?

I will mostly run Lime Rock, NHMS and Watkins Glen.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Abhi Ghatak

[jimalley]

Nah! I would leave everything the way it is :D

[jimbbski]

Here in MCSCC many drivers run in ITA with spec SM cars and are very competitive. Most of the other ITA cars are FWD and sometimes run into tire overheating or wear problems when run hard. The SM cars do not have that problem so have won their share of races but with no one driver winning more then once or twice. Our class champion by finishing in the top 3 consistantly and winning 2-3 times drove a 1990 Accura Integra.

[mossaidis]

Don't let Jim Alley scare you! LOL! it's his third motor build... I think. I would be cynical as well. :)

As with most IT builds, work on suspension first shocks and springs, basic i/e/h bolts-on, head work, tuning, underdrive, then bushings, then full IT spec bottom end. I *think* most Miata folks use OEM .020 over pistons, though full blown motors should probably use forged 040 over. I am *NOT* a Miata guy and I am sure there is some secret recipe. Talk to Brian Price and/or Andy for sure. :)

[Matt93SE]

Just throwing this out there, but almost all of the track records at our local tracks are faster in SM than they are in ITA.
something to keep in mind. ;)

[JeffYoung]

Yeah, but they shouldn't be.

A good ITA Miata should have maybe 10 more hp, and a better, more balanced suspension. When comparing the "best of the best" at places like VIR or Road Atlanta, the "best" ITA Miatas are generally at least a second or two quicker than the very best SMs.


Just throwing this out there, but almost all of the track records at our local tracks are faster in SM than they are in ITA.
something to keep in mind. ;)

[Abhi]

Nah! I would leave everything the way it is :D

Hi Jim,

I can barely stay with you on the straights, so thought I should do something here. I am the black #1 that you have been seeing in your mirrors for most of the season. I can catch up to you but thats about all I got. :):)

Abhi

[jimalley]

Hi Jim,

I can barely stay with you on the straights, so thought I should do something here. I am the black #1 that you have been seeing in your mirrors for most of the season. I can catch up to you but thats about all I got. :):)

Abhi

Come over to Londonderry and I can give you great ideas on how to spend :D

Seriously, my car is at least 1 second faster than the driver. I may have some suspension parts that can help you once you figure out what spring rates you want to start with.

if you want to run with the faster ITA cars in this area you will need to develope the Miata:shrug:

[CRallo]

Abhi! Welcome to the fray! Coming to the dark side huh? :p

[JLawton]

Abhi is coming back from the dark side!! Seriously, I think you'll like running in IT better than SM.

At this point, the suspension isn't going to hinder you the most. I would go for the easy HP bolt-ons first. Then from there, it's all about how deep your pockets are!! :D

To get to the point where you are running with the likes of Andy, Shane, Timmy, etc. You're gonna have to throw some serious coin at the car.

[CRallo]

oh right... THEY are the dark side... I forgot.

What Jeff forgot to mention, but made me think of, is that you could just buy his championship winning Saturn... No guess work there! :D

Jeff is right though in regards to his advice on the Miat'r. Also, I think that you wouldn't have to relearn driving it much, it would just have more hp.

[Abhi]

Abhi is coming back from the dark side!! Seriously, I think you'll like running in IT better than SM.

At this point, the suspension isn't going to hinder you the most. I would go for the easy HP bolt-ons first. Then from there, it's all about how deep your pockets are!! :D


Thanks for the advice Jeff and Chris.

Being on a budget, I am trying to decide whether to leave the car as an SM and learn how to drive better. :D:D

Jim Alley...I will take you up on your offer and come up and visit you and pick your brain.

As far as easy HP bolt-ons...which ones are most bang for the buck ?

-Intake ?
-Exhaust ?
-Computer ?

Any advice on brands ?

What else ?

Abhi

P.S. Jeff...are you putting the Mini back together ? Or are you going to run the Saturn ?

[JLawton]

Thanks for the advice Jeff and Chris.

Being on a budget, I am trying to decide whether to leave the car as an SM and learn how to drive better. :D:D

Jim Alley...I will take you up on your offer and come up and visit you and pick your brain.

As far as easy HP bolt-ons...which ones are most bang for the buck ?

-Intake ?
-Exhaust ?
-Computer ?

Any advice on brands ?

What else ?

Abhi

P.S. Jeff...are you putting the Mini back together ? Or are you going to run the Saturn ?

Abhi,
My suggestion is to work with Matt........... he's got a "decent" record in IT and SM........ He knows his shit.

I'm definately not running the Saturn any more. Not sure what I'm going to do with the Mini. I don't have the money to fix it and nobody would want to buy it as is......

[tom91ita]

Yeah, but they shouldn't be.

A good ITA Miata should have maybe 10 more hp, and a better, more balanced suspension. When comparing the "best of the best" at places like VIR or Road Atlanta, the "best" ITA Miatas are generally at least a second or two quicker than the very best SMs.

to get a decent idea of the potential difference, check out this past weekend's ARRC results and look for Brian Price in ITA and SM. Brian (aka "Rowdy") was running in the top 5 in SM before cutting a tire and won ITA.

good driver in well prepared cars. should give an idea of the potential lap times relative to each class for a given track with similar conditions.

[CRallo]

Assuming Abhi doesn't already have it, does anyone have contact info for Brian Price? Anyone know the non-top-secret details on his car?

Edit: Abhi, I found him on Facebook, go figure. We have 5 mutual friends.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Call me. Too much to type.

508
878
2228

[Andy Bettencourt]

Just throwing this out there, but almost all of the track records at our local tracks are faster in SM than they are in ITA.
something to keep in mind. ;)

That's your local ITA's fault. :)

[gran racing]

Abhi,

Keep it in SM trim and give ITA a try as is. Watching some of the races (LRP and the Glen), a well built SM can do pretty darn well in ITA. Also, have a serious chat with Matt to get his thoughts.

I honestly don't know where you as a driver stand right now, but how much improvement can you use? (Not asking you to answer that here). What are you weak points? I guess the bigger question, what are your goals? Maybe you don't have the strong desire to become a better racer and the focus is on the fun factor which is totally fine.

I personally might dabble in SM next year and think you should keep the car eligible for the class. :)

[TStiles]

That's your local ITA's fault. :)

Ouch !

[TStiles]

Now that I've put a Icy Hot on my wounded ego , I'll see if we can get this conversation going with some specifics.

1st a little background , about this time last year , I bought a tired 95 SM . All I did other than R&M was :
- ISC Top Hats , Revalved the SM shocks , Offset Bushings in front
- Removed restrictor , added intake & header , made 115 HP on the old crate motor
- After my season was over , I added Megasquirt and made 10 HP
- Next week I'll get rid of the 4.1 Torsen and add 4.78 clutch pack

What's the next bang for the buck ?

[jimalley]

Abhi

I think it will depend on what group you want to run in and if you expect to cross-over. Based on the few weekends you ran in ITA last year you seemed to enjoy the group, fellow competitors, and the racing.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Now that I've put a Icy Hot on my wounded ego , I'll see if we can get this conversation going with some specifics.

1st a little background , about this time last year , I bought a tired 95 SM . All I did other than R&M was :
- ISC Top Hats , Revalved the SM shocks , Offset Bushings in front
- Removed restrictor , added intake & header , made 115 HP on the old crate motor
- After my season was over , I added Megasquirt and made 10 HP
- Next week I'll get rid of the 4.1 Torsen and add 4.78 clutch pack

What's the next bang for the buck ?

So you have the basic bolt-ons and an ECU. You still have to find about 8whp in all the little things like compression bump, exhaust tuning, etc. It's a tough road but it's there. If you hit 130+whp, start spending your money elsewhere.

Like springs, shocks and bars. Splitter to get the air away from the big front tires that will hog the air...

[Knestis]

... What's the next bang for the buck ?

A tire budget and practice.

K

[TStiles]

So you have the basic bolt-ons and an ECU. You still have to find about 8whp in all the little things like compression bump, exhaust tuning, etc. It's a tough road but it's there. If you hit 130+whp, start spending your money elsewhere.

Like springs, shocks and bars. Splitter to get the air away from the big front tires that will hog the air...

Thanks Andy , I'm always asking myself the benefits of doing a proper suspension. Are you aware of a splitter solution , or do I need to got dig out my jigsaw ?

Tires : Oh yeah , could always use some fresh rubber ... Like most of us , I save my best rubber for the most competitive races and run on junk the rest of the time.

Practice : Of course , can always use more laps. I'm fortunate enough to instruct with a DE group , so I can get laps. We have several competitive miata guys in the group so we pound around and critique each other.

[JLawton]

Are you aware of a splitter solution , or do I need to got dig out my jigsaw ?

.


Oh, Andy knows splitters!! He's destroyed more than most NASCAR teams. :p




.

[gran racing]

Do you run As on the Miata especially at tracks that aren't so harsh on tires? I would imagine the Miata would handle them. (More of a question for Andy.)

[Andy Bettencourt]

I run the Goodyears. The A tires could be run without issue up here in early Spring and Fall.

And I have busted 2 splitters, a friend has taken out 1. Hve a spoiler now that needs a forgiving splitter.

[Abhi]

Abhi

I think it will depend on what group you want to run in and if you expect to cross-over. Based on the few weekends you ran in ITA last year you seemed to enjoy the group, fellow competitors, and the racing.

Jim,

I really did enjoy running with the ITA folks. It was close racing but without the unecessary contact and intensity in SM.

Also, I like the variety of running against different cars.

I am bringing the car down to Matt's soon and will call Andy to get his advice on priorities for "most bang for the buck".

My goal is to get most of it done by year end and then send the car down to Florida and run some races there. I will probably base it at the Skipbarber facility at Sebring or Road Atlanta and run out of there.

At this point I need to work on the driving as well as developing the car.

Thanks
Abhi

[Greg Amy]

1 - SM6 Hoosiers (something like 75% or less the cost of 225 A6s);

2 - Leave the Spec suspension in until you see how/what the SM boys do with the Spec suspension on Ho-Hos;

3 - Header and intake for a handful more ponies;

4 - Megasquirt for tuning;

5 - "Profit".

But you knew all that already.

Later, if you decide to go full-boat on the ITA effort, you can develop the car for 225 Ho-Hos with better springs/shocks, lighter wheels, full-up IT engine build, etc.

Do the easy stuff, then shut up and drive (and have fun).

GA

[JeffYoung]

In SEDiv, I've owned parts of 2 SMs and have run SM a fair amount, in addition to the ITS car.

VASTLY prefer IT. Cars are different enough that the racing is more interesting to me. More importantly, in SM, since the cars you are running with are all equal (but don't get me started on "pro" motors), you CANNOT lift. If you do, you lose everything you worked to gain over the preceding 4-5 laps in a just a split second.

I hate that really, and it breeds some of the contact, which becomes necessary due to the fact that NO ONE can lift at risk of blowing a sprint race.

IT? We race hard but generally give room and have a blast. Welcome.

[Abhi]

Do the easy stuff, then shut up and drive (and have fun).

GA

Greg,
You hit the nail on the head here. :happy204:

I think I'll spend some money on driver coaching.

Abhi

[TStiles]

In SEDiv, I've owned parts of 2 SMs and have run SM a fair amount, in addition to the ITS car.

VASTLY prefer IT. Cars are different enough that the racing is more interesting to me. More importantly, in SM, since the cars you are running with are all equal (but don't get me started on "pro" motors), you CANNOT lift. If you do, you lose everything you worked to gain over the preceding 4-5 laps in a just a split second.

I hate that really, and it breeds some of the contact, which becomes necessary due to the fact that NO ONE can lift at risk of blowing a sprint race.

IT? We race hard but generally give room and have a blast. Welcome.

This is why I run IT vs. SM

My only complaint is that we don't have enough cars running IT in SW Division , but I guess the flip side of that is that if it were as competitive as some other places I would be spending alot more $$$$$

[jimalley]

I run the Goodyears. The A tires could be run without issue up here in early Spring and Fall.

And I have busted 2 splitters, a friend has taken out 1. Hve a spoiler now that needs a forgiving splitter.


Andy I am tied with you at two splitters. I am woking on a more forgiving design, but have not had time to test.

[Matt93SE]

how about this one?
http://cafephoto.smugmug.com/LoneStarSCCAGrandPrixTWS5-2011/Group-6-ITB-etc/Sat-AM/17271123_RJVLXC#1313319909_FFqXjn2

Brian Laughlin out of Tulsa, OK. He says the car is fully ITA legal, but I wasn't aware you could turn your IT car into a platypus...

[TStiles]

how about this one?
http://cafephoto.smugmug.com/LoneStarSCCAGrandPrixTWS5-2011/Group-6-ITB-etc/Sat-AM/17271123_RJVLXC#1313319909_FFqXjn2

Brian Laughlin out of Tulsa, OK. He says the car is fully ITA legal, but I wasn't aware you could turn your IT car into a platypus...

I remember seeing Brian's car @ the Memorial Day race ( good looking car ) I'm not sure which air dam that is , but I want to stay away from something that takes out fenders , bumper cover , ect. when there's an off

[ulfelder]

Andy I am tied with you at two splitters. I am woking on a more forgiving design, but have not had time to test.

I believe I trump you both. In my RX-7, it seemed I blew up an expensive, Flatout-made fiberglass splitter at every race. And the car ran hot as hell without it.

I'm just running the OE chin spoiler on the S2000. I think the car would benefit from a splitter, but I don't know if I can afford one a weekend ...

[Andy Bettencourt]

how about this one?
http://cafephoto.smugmug.com/LoneStarSCCAGrandPrixTWS5-2011/Group-6-ITB-etc/Sat-AM/17271123_RJVLXC#1313319909_FFqXjn2

Brian Laughlin out of Tulsa, OK. He says the car is fully ITA legal, but I wasn't aware you could turn your IT car into a platypus...

That's the ISC version that I used as well.

4 ways to determine legality: Look at it from the top of the car, if you can't see it, legal. Can't be lower than the bottom edge of your wheels. And can't be further back than the trailing edge of your front fender...and finally, it should be attached in some way to your front facia/bumper cover. All IIRC.

[red986s]

I've had really good luck with the Tougerun G-style spoiler.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac218/red986s/IMG_1478sm.jpg

[Andy Bettencourt]

That is where most of us are at now.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/FOM09/DSCF0442.jpg

[JLawton]

Nothin' like a shameless plug, eh Andy?? :)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Nothin' like a shameless plug, eh Andy?? :)

Just following the trend! ;-)

[TStiles]

Just following the trend! ;-)

It's what I'm using too

[JLawton]

Just following the trend! ;-)

I don't know what you're talking about????

[Andy Bettencourt]

I don't know what you're talking about????

This is a mini-section on Miata splitters, not a photo thread of what races you won without me being there. Zing!!! :D:D:D:D

[CRallo]

This is a mini-section on Miata splitters, not a photo thread of what races you won without me being there. Zing!!! :D:D:D:D

Was that because you ripped off a splitter?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Was that because you ripped off a splitter?

LOL!!! Those fibergalss designs are effective, but one wrong move and they explode...sometimes putting a hole in a radiator, sometimes severing a ground wire...:)