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red986s
10-10-2011, 11:05 PM
Trying to figure out all the championships within IT. ARRC, NARRC, IT fest, etc. Is there a thread or can someone explain what they all are? Is there a championship ladder (i.e. Playoffs then Super Bowl)?

Knestis
10-11-2011, 06:53 AM
Hmmm...

Interesting question!

K

joeg
10-11-2011, 06:56 AM
Many , many championships...not all just IT. In the NE/ GLD we have NYSRRC and the Kryder Series, for example.

Ron Earp
10-11-2011, 08:14 AM
Trying to figure out all the championships within IT. ARRC, NARRC, IT fest, etc. Is there a thread or can someone explain what they all are? Is there a championship ladder (i.e. Playoffs then Super Bowl)?

As Kirk says, good question.

I look at it in this fashion - the NARRC/SARRC series are road race points championships that test mettle and many tracks and finishes with a double points championship race.

The ARRC is a single road race at Road Atlanta that depends on nothing else, so essentially it is an Atlanta Road Racing Championship.

ProIT is another isn't it?

Butch Kummer
10-11-2011, 09:34 AM
Hmmm...

Interesting question!

K

With a new answer coming soon (before the 2011 ARRC by GRM).

Stay tuned, IT fans...

red986s
10-11-2011, 04:03 PM
The reason I ask is because my season in the MIDIV is over and that's it. The national drivers get the runoffs, IT drivers build up to.........

.........nothing. Just seems a shame.

I've kicked the idea around of switching to STU in order to get to the runoffs. Problem is I really like IT and want to stick with it. Having some sort of IT points system and a "national" IT runoffs would be the cat's azz! Yeah I know, dead horse. ;)

Butch Kummer
10-11-2011, 07:34 PM
The reason I ask is because my season in the MIDIV is over and that's it. The national drivers get the runoffs, IT drivers build up to.........

.........nothing. Just seems a shame.

I've kicked the idea around of switching to STU in order to get to the runoffs. Problem is I really like IT and want to stick with it. Having some sort of IT points system and a "national" IT runoffs would be the cat's azz! Yeah I know, dead horse. ;)

Not to jump the shark on the deal, but expect an announcement within the next couple of weeks about the "next level" for IT drivers. A bunch of folks much smarter than me have been working on it and it's VERY close to coming to fruition for 2012!

(And yes, some folks think it's better than IT classes being invited to the Run-Ons)

red986s
10-11-2011, 11:41 PM
Wow! Can't wait to hear the details!

Ralf
10-12-2011, 03:22 AM
Mitch, just do like Albin and bring two cars to the event. This way you can qualify for Nationals and still run IT. :smilie_pokal:

JLawton
10-12-2011, 06:39 AM
The reason I ask is because my season in the MIDIV is over and that's it. The national drivers get the runoffs, IT drivers build up to.........

.........nothing. Just seems a shame.



Do you mean other than the ARRC? That has always been the official unoffical runoffs for IT cars.

StephenB
10-12-2011, 07:30 AM
Do you mean other than the ARRC? That has always been the official unoffical runoffs for IT cars.

I still think the NARRC Runnoffs have a lot more depth of cars that could win, in ITB anyway. To me that has always been the BIG year end event. Then again I have only made the trip to two ARRC events. I probably wont go back (in ITB ) unless the car counts spike at some point.

I think a "Real" runnoffs in IT needs to see 30+ IT cars in each class. I soooooo wish we could pull it off BUT it would take all regions working together throughout the country since I really think they would need to dump a bit of money into it to make it attractive like the National Runoffs.

StephenB
10-12-2011, 07:31 AM
Wow! Can't wait to hear the details!

I am interested as well!

StephenB
10-12-2011, 07:39 AM
As Kirk says, good question.

I look at it in this fashion - the NARRC/SARRC series are road race points championships that test mettle and many tracks and finishes with a double points championship race.

The ARRC is a single road race at Road Atlanta that depends on nothing else, so essentially it is an Atlanta Road Racing Championship.

ProIT is another isn't it?


I think it all depends on the class as well. Some classes tend to migrate to a particular series. Here in the North East the ITB guys are geared towards NARRC. I would say the "core" Northeast ITB guys have been doing this a long time and holding onto the NARRC program. But the ITR guys are mostly running the Treadzone Pro-IT series. Heck this year we had the largest ITR field in country at WG during a Pro-IT race.

For me if I was going to run a series in the Northeast (with the cars I own) I don't watch the ITA and ITS closely enough. I think the Pro-IT ITS cars are very competitive but several of them double dip, just not sure if they are running the full NARRC schedule anymore.
- In my ITB car I would go for the NARRC
- In my ITR car I would go for the Pro-It.

Z3_GoCar
10-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Trying to figure out all the championships within IT. ARRC, NARRC, IT fest, etc. Is there a thread or can someone explain what they all are? Is there a championship ladder (i.e. Playoffs then Super Bowl)?

Don't forget the PCRRC:

http://www.calclub.com/PCRRC.php

red986s
10-12-2011, 11:25 AM
Ralf - I think Albin has a money tree in his back yard!:D I have seriously considered double dipping (ITA/STx) but you need deep pockets to be competitive. Two cars/classes has to be expensive!

JLawton - Yeah like the ARRC but in a more "National/official" system.

StephenB - A "Real" IT Runoffs would be great!

Sounds like we're not alone wondering how we can make it happen. It would take a lot organization from all the divisions to make it work. We'll see I guess.

Knestis
10-12-2011, 04:15 PM
....We'll see I guess.

Quoted for posterity. Yes, you will. :)

K

callard
10-13-2011, 12:03 PM
Anybody remember that there are a bunch of MARRS folks that would be interested?

Butch Kummer
10-13-2011, 12:05 PM
Anybody remember that there are a bunch of MARRS folks that would be interested?

Yes.

gran racing
10-13-2011, 12:15 PM
Butch, did you bribe someone to create this thread? lol

For the most part, I think there are specific races in regions which are highlights. I personally am not a follower of the NARRC championships (other than the NARRC Runoffs event itself). Generally speaking, it seems more of an attendence game.

shwah
10-13-2011, 12:39 PM
Dave - I agree. Moving away from a registration competition is one of the benefits of the new idea. In our neck of the woods we have small fields in IT. Now sometimes they are high quality, with a few front running ARRC contenders in the mix, and other years if you show up to everything you might win. If this works as intended we could develop a premiere divisional IT event that brings out the best competition all at once consistently, while making a trip to the Fest and ARRC appealing to more people.

I am really looking forward to this thing.

Matt93SE
10-13-2011, 12:55 PM
Ralf - I think Albin has a money tree in his back yard!:D I have seriously considered double dipping (ITA/STx) but you need deep pockets to be competitive. Two cars/classes has to be expensive!

Running up front in STx will be expensive too. Much cheaper for a full ITx build than an STx. don't plan on running up front in STU unless you have money to burn. When I started building my car for the class, I figured I'd get a couple more years out of it before it got $$$$ to run up front. nah. that happened this summer. I'll always be the poor guy 5 sec off the pace.. but I'll still be there. :)

Andy Bettencourt
10-13-2011, 01:37 PM
Generally speaking, it seems more of an attendence game.

Depends on how you design the points system. In the amateur world we live in, where everyone can't get to all the events, when you have all the races count like this year in the NAARC, then I agree 100%.

JeffYoung
10-13-2011, 02:59 PM
I just ran the SARRC series for points this year and won. Best six races count PLUS double points for the SIC (equivalent of the NARRC runoffs I think).

We had 100 separate cars run over the course of the year (I believe) with maybe 10 guys running more than 6 races. 3 of us had a shot at the championship.

SARRC is not a show up and win series, although it can be "gamed" in some ways if you are willing to tow long distances. Daytona, Sebring, VIR, Road Atlanta, CMP, Roebling, Charlotte and Barber generally get large ITS fields and you need to have your A game on to win.

That said, if you are willing to tow to Palm Beach, Homestead or Nashville, you can score some easy points.

To me, the SARRC championship is more prestigious (to me) than the ARRC becuase of the year long need for consistency and reliability, the competition, and the fact you have to run and win at very different tracks.

Ron Earp
10-13-2011, 05:36 PM
To me, the SARRC championship is more prestigious (to me) than the ARRC becuase of the year long need for consistency and reliability, the competition, and the fact you have to run and win at very different tracks.

Agreed.

The Atlanta Road Racing Championship is just that, a single race in Atlanta that says you won that race, i.e., you're the champion for the weekend. To me it isn't any different than any other race at Road Atlanta.

JoshS
10-13-2011, 05:55 PM
The Atlanta Road Racing Championship is just that, a single race in Atlanta that says you won that race, i.e., you're the champion for the weekend. To me it isn't any different than any other race at Road Atlanta.

The difference is that it attracts more/deeper competition, at least in theory. Otherwise the Runoffs would be "just another race" too.

lateapex911
10-13-2011, 06:01 PM
yes, this threads timing is VERY interesting!

Stay tuned indeed!


(Stephen, good luck on getting 30 car fields. And even tho the NARRCoffs has a strong 20+ car field, lets face it, most aren't ARRC quality. (The front IS strong, but, ever been to a MARRS race in ITB? I can think of 3 down there that will shake you up. Then there's Albin, etc etc etc....

red986s
10-13-2011, 08:50 PM
yes, this threads timing is VERY interesting!

Should I go get a lottery ticket?:D

Knestis
10-14-2011, 09:09 AM
Should I go get a lottery ticket?:D

Just start thinking about your goals for 2012. What do you want to accomplish?

K

Andy Bettencourt
10-14-2011, 09:32 AM
I just ran the SARRC series for points this year and won. Best six races count PLUS double points for the SIC (equivalent of the NARRC runoffs I think).


Let me ask you this. How would you feel if ALL your races had counted?

red986s
10-14-2011, 09:34 AM
Hopefully one of those goals will be to get an invite to the "National Improved Touring Road Racing Championship"!!!:023:

You guys have my full attention.:)

Butch Kummer
10-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Let me ask you this. How would you feel if ALL your races had counted?

Not speaking for Jeff, but I'd find something else to do if each year I had to run all 30+/- SARRC races (14-18 weekends) in order to contend for the the series championship. Different parts of the country have different challenges, but in 2011 SEDiv held 32 SARRC races at ten tracks from Homestead (South Florida) to Barber (Birmingham) to Nashville to VIR (Southern Virginia). Requiring folks to compete at all or even most of those races in order to win a championship would have resulted in maybe three people (overall) participating. We constantly debate whether or not counting one's best six is too few, but so far that number seems to be working. It also means you could have 3 or 4 drivers show up at the final race (the SARRC Invitational Challenge) with the same number of points, which makes for some VERY good racing there.

StephenB
10-14-2011, 11:02 AM
yes, this threads timing is VERY interesting!

Stay tuned indeed!


(Stephen, good luck on getting 30 car fields. And even tho the NARRCoffs has a strong 20+ car field, lets face it, most aren't ARRC quality. (The front IS strong, but, ever been to a MARRS race in ITB? I can think of 3 down there that will shake you up. Then there's Albin, etc etc etc....


I wish we could have 30+ car fields. :) I think it would be extremely hard to get that many cars in a class at anypoint anymore. But I WISH it could happen. :)


MARRS races in "B" are awesome! I bet the summit race is the BEST race in the country for "B" and I have always wanted to go. On my list the ARRC would come in third to the MARRS Summit race and the NARRC runoffs. Sadly both Summit and RA are so far and costly to travel that I just haven't been able to do it.

On Edit! I am at the edge of my seat waiting to hear this new news!!!!!! I don't visit the sandbox often but are they talking about it on that site? Should I go visit it and search through all the clutter?

Stephen

shwah
10-14-2011, 11:15 AM
The best B race I ever saw was ITFest 2008. 22 cars very few 'slow' ones and some very fast ones. Not likely that I will get a chance to sample a MARRS event, so I can't compare.

StephenB
10-14-2011, 11:41 AM
Just curious on the other IT classes what are the biggest events for those that are racing throughout the country.

Stephen

gran racing
10-14-2011, 11:42 AM
No need to go to the sandbox Stephen, it'll be announced shortly on here.

Butch Kummer
10-14-2011, 11:46 AM
On Edit! I am at the edge of my seat waiting to hear this new news!!!!!! I don't visit the sandbox often but are they talking about it on that site? Should I go visit it and search through all the clutter?

Stephen

I hate to be evasive on this, but we've been asked to wait until next Wednesday to make the "official" announcement about this. What I can tell you right now is this program (which WILL happen in 2012) developed out of the following thread over on RRAX.com:

http://roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=35806

Andy Bettencourt
10-14-2011, 05:05 PM
Not speaking for Jeff, but I'd find something else to do if each year I had to run all 30+/- SARRC races (14-18 weekends) in order to contend for the the series championship. Different parts of the country have different challenges, but in 2011 SEDiv held 32 SARRC races at ten tracks from Homestead (South Florida) to Barber (Birmingham) to Nashville to VIR (Southern Virginia). Requiring folks to compete at all or even most of those races in order to win a championship would have resulted in maybe three people (overall) participating. We constantly debate whether or not counting one's best six is too few, but so far that number seems to be working. It also means you could have 3 or 4 drivers show up at the final race (the SARRC Invitational Challenge) with the same number of points, which makes for some VERY good racing there.

So ours is a TON less vigorous, but we all also have multiple series to choose from. Here it was 11 events over 7 weekend, with one must-attend double-points Runoff. 5 different tracks. Then there is the NERSCCA, NYSRRC and Pro It series all at the same time with additional weekends. Most racers here think one more than half the races is a good call to allow for real life.

JeffYoung
10-14-2011, 09:13 PM
I agree 100% with Butch. If I had to tow from VIR to Barber in Alabama to Sebring and all points in between to run 30 races since all of them counted, I'd be (a) broke and (b) even more single than I already am.

Butch, FWIW, I think six is dead on. Seems to work the same every year. We get 75-100 entries in SM, SRF, ITS and sometimes ITA, with 4-5 guys running enough and well enough to contend for the championship. I tihnk that works. Anything more and it gets tough for the amateur racer to run enough races to count. Anything less and it can be too easy to be good at just one track.

red986s
10-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Is this going to be an East coast or a National thing?

Butch Kummer
10-14-2011, 11:51 PM
The West Coast guys will say it's an East Coast thing, but I'd prefer to say it's (currently) an "East of the Rockies" thing.

Three parts to the Championship:
. The IT-Fest at Mid-Ohio in late July
. The ARRC by GRM at Road Atlanta in early November
. Your best single result at a number of well-attended "Elective" events

I'm not yet at liberty to disclose the entire schedule, but the closest to you, Mitch, would be the Firecracker Grand Prix at Hallett in July or the Kettle-Moraine at Road America in mid-August.

We currently have no West Coast events listed among the Elective races but we could easily add one or two if there's interest. Given that the eventual champion will most likely have to attend the IT-Fest AND the ARRC, however, I'm not sure any of the West Coast guys would be interested.

JeffYoung
10-15-2011, 04:56 AM
I would be fine adding an elective event on the West Coast (or a couple). However, I agree with Butch. Since you have to run the ARRC and the IT Fest, for guys in the Midwest and the Pacific Coast it will be tough to win unless you are committed to two long tows.

I'd still call this a National uh "tour" though. The vast majority of IT cars live and race east of the Rockies, with a majority of that majority east of the Mississippi, and even then with most of them concentrated in the SEDiv, the WDCR and the NEDiv.

We tried to keep a national perspective, but the focus had to be on how to we attract the "most best" IT cars to the scheudle.

red986s
10-15-2011, 04:15 PM
Ok just wanted to make sure you kept us Midwest/Central/Texas IT drivers in mind. Can't speak for others but in the MiDiv, IT is the biggest game around. Lots of talent in ITA and ITB. We want a piece of the action! ;)

StephenB
10-19-2011, 02:54 PM
I hate to be evasive on this, but we've been asked to wait until next Wednesday to make the "official" announcement about this. What I can tell you right now is this program (which WILL happen in 2012) developed out of the following thread over on RRAX.com:

http://roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=35806

Butch your killing me with the suspense! I am on the edge of my seat, checking every few hours on an update!!!

dj10
10-19-2011, 03:34 PM
with one must-attend double-points Runoff.

IMO the double point events should be eliminated.

Butch Kummer
10-19-2011, 05:16 PM
Butch your killing me with the suspense! I am on the edge of my seat, checking every few hours on an update!!!

Sorry. A dentist appointment and subsequent catching up on work have gotten in the way of the "official press release" so it'll most like be tomorrow before I have the longer story.

In the meantime take a look at http://www.itnationaltour.com/ and let me/us know what you think.

The official name (for at least the next two years) will be the "Cool Shirt (r) IT National Tour".

Knestis
10-19-2011, 06:40 PM
Cool! Can we share more widely, Butch?

Also, it occurs to me that maybe we can talk one of the IT.com mods into setting aside an area here for discussion topics.

K

red986s
10-19-2011, 07:06 PM
Looks great! I may need to start looking into a better tow vehicle or RV. My wife is going to kill me!:lol:

StephenB
10-19-2011, 10:10 PM
Great website! Well organized along with a well organized Championship! I think it captures what we have been missing. I would love to run for it but to be honest the travel is extensive from NH. If I can do it I certainly will! Time will tell :)

Stephen

Thanks for putting together a great series!

Butch Kummer
10-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Cool! Can we share more widely, Butch?

Also, it occurs to me that maybe we can talk one of the IT.com mods into setting aside an area here for discussion topics.

K

Yes, it can be shared now.

I was planning to create a new thread here under "Championship Events" called "Cool Shirt IT National Tour" but my day job has (unexpectedly) gotten in the way this week.

Butch Kummer
10-20-2011, 09:46 AM
Great website! Well organized along with a well organized Championship! I think it captures what we have been missing. I would love to run for it but to be honest the travel is extensive from NH. If I can do it I certainly will! Time will tell :)

Stephen

Thanks for putting together a great series!

Kirk is the website architect and I agree - he does good work! :)

We recognize that travel will be an issue for some participants, so that's why we made it possible to compete with as few as three weekends - one relatively local Elective event, the IT-Fest, and the ARRC by GRM. Yes, it will take additional planning for some folks, but the two "mandatory" events are well-spaced on the calendar and there should be at least one Elective event in your proximity. Granted running multiple Elective events improves your chances of winning, but you still only count your best one.

And if you can't make it in 2012 we certainly plan for this to continue (and grow) beyond next season.

Lots of folks contributed to this, so for all of them I'll say, "You're welcome."

Knestis
11-05-2011, 09:08 PM
Hey, IT.com admins. Can we get a forum space set aside for the ITNT? I'll build a link to it from the championship web site.

K

CRallo
11-05-2011, 09:53 PM
IMO the double point events should be eliminated.

Are you referring to the double races? or the NARRCoffs? or both?

Knestis
11-06-2011, 11:26 AM
I suspect Dan was speaking in general terms.

Big-picture, there's something of a cause-effect conundrum going on with those. We tried to pick the highest-profile, best-attended Elective events available in each geographic area. That made the "doubles" (e.g. the SARRC/MARRS) an obvious answer. And a desire for points-keeping simplicity makes it hard to untangle the "which race counts?" question if the event runs two sanction numbers.

At the same time, one secondary benefit of the ITNT is that it might even further raise the profile of those events, perhaps encouraging someone to travel to one if (for example) they care about Tour points and blow up at their local Elective event.

Yes - It does give the person with a double near home a numerically better shot compared to someone with a single Elective race nearby. The scale seems to tip away from that consideration though.

K

CRallo
11-06-2011, 11:58 AM
Based on the quote he posted, I believe that Dan is referring specifically to the NARRC championship(just not sure to what end) and not to the ITNT which I THINK is what you are assuming based on your reply.

In regards to the ITNT: I really like the concept as well as the choice of qualifying races(atleast the northeastern ones, as they are all I know). WGI and LRP are totally different tracks and those are both great/big/popular events. Also, it will def make the Fun One a bit more meaningful...

I don't know what next year will hold store for me just yet, but I'll be as involved in the IT community as possible. Worse comes to worse I will just continue watching from a far... :024:


I suspect Dan was speaking in general terms.

Big-picture, there's something of a cause-effect conundrum going on with those. We tried to pick the highest-profile, best-attended Elective events available in each geographic area. That made the "doubles" (e.g. the SARRC/MARRS) an obvious answer. And a desire for points-keeping simplicity makes it hard to untangle the "which race counts?" question if the event runs two sanction numbers.

At the same time, one secondary benefit of the ITNT is that it might even further raise the profile of those events, perhaps encouraging someone to travel to one if (for example) they care about Tour points and blow up at their local Elective event.

Yes - It does give the person with a double near home a numerically better shot compared to someone with a single Elective race nearby. The scale seems to tip away from that consideration though.

K

shwah
11-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Hey, IT.com admins. Can we get a forum space set aside for the ITNT? I'll build a link to it from the championship web site.

K

That is what this area was created as, when we initially launched the IT Triple Crown-then-IT Driver's Championship, which the IT National Tour is an improvement upon. How about we just change the name of this folder?
IT.com Forums > IT Forums > Cool Shirt IT National Tour
>> IT Fest
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