New ITB & ITS track records at Watkins Glen! [Archive]

StephenB

10-09-2011, 11:14 AM

In the Treadzone Pro-It series finale today both ITS &ITB track recorde were made. Congratulations to the following drivers on their accomplishment!

ITS Jeff Henderson 2000 BMW 323i 2:14.137
ITB Michael Tinis 1994 VW Golf GTI 2:22.619

gran racing

10-09-2011, 10:57 PM

Are you sure about the ITB record? I thought Marty's record was below that.

Kai Noeske

10-10-2011, 12:27 AM

Was the ITB car the silver Golf that ran at MARRS1?

StephenB

10-10-2011, 06:52 AM

Was the ITB car the silver Golf that ran at MARRS1?

It was silver and blue... i wasnt at any marrs races.

Dave... its listed on the results so i assume accurate.

Stephen

gran racing

10-10-2011, 07:58 AM

I'm it's legit but hope he cleaned up the gearing issues previously found.

preparedcivic

10-10-2011, 09:23 AM

I'm it's legit but hope he cleaned up the gearing issues previously found.

This car/driver also reset what was Tristan Herbert's NJMP-Thunderbolt record back in June. Transmission discussions there too given what happened at Summit.

Drew M

10-10-2011, 09:48 AM

ITB Michael Tinis 1994 VW Golf GTI 2:22.619

Holy cow. Dude's first time at WGI. Bet he goes far...

dtanthon

10-10-2011, 10:06 AM

Drew - All OK?

Drew M

10-10-2011, 10:15 AM

Drew - All OK?

Yeah. They took me off in the ambulance as a precaution. My neck was a little sore. I got checked out at the hospital after the race. Seems to just be a minor neck sprain. Surprisingly, I'm feeling much better this morning. I hit the guardrail HARD.
The car is pretty beat up, but at least I have all winter to fix it.

Thank you for asking.

dtanthon

10-10-2011, 10:22 AM

Drew M

10-10-2011, 10:27 AM

Drew - Glad to hear you are feeling good. You are part of the Pro IT family now, a big extended family, we care. See you soon. Plenty of RX/7 pieces and parts out there. Yell on hear if you need anything.

Will do, thank you! Even though I was out by the second lap, what I did experience with the organization seemed to be what I've been looking for, serious racing that I can run on my budget.

Knestis

10-10-2011, 11:45 AM

This car/driver also reset what was Tristan Herbert's NJMP-Thunderbolt record back in June. Transmission discussions there too given what happened at Summit.

Talked with Michael's dad during the protest at Summit and he was mighty pissed at the previous owner. I have little doubt that he's SURE that the gears are legit.

That said, I'm still not entirely confident that the inquiry there was accurate, given Cameron's concerns watching the tech guys do their check and come to their conclusions.

Having run heads-up with him, I don't have undue concerns with the car.

K

preparedcivic

10-10-2011, 12:10 PM

And as for my report, the highlight was winning ITB year end in ProIT. Aside from making some moves around Miatas in qualifying, the rest of the on-track experience this weekend was sort of a yawner just trying not to beat myself.

Watkins Glen in my hooptie is an exercise in patience, as T1 up, and I mean up to the bus stop takes a looooooooooonnnnggggggg time. I was radared during qualifying on Saturday in the 103-105 range at my brake point. Still, this weekend I was about 3 seconds quicker than the July race, so I take that as forward progress.

Terry Hanushek

10-10-2011, 03:06 PM

Dave

Are you sure about the ITB record? I thought Marty's record was below that.

There was some initial confusion - yesterday's lap was lower than the record on the FLR web site but higher than the data in the computer. I asked T&S to review the lap records and they appear to have adjusted their data. This was Michael's first race at the Glen - great job! :happy204:

Drew

Yeah. They took me off in the ambulance as a precaution. My neck was a little sore. I got checked out at the hospital after the race. Seems to just be a minor neck sprain. Surprisingly, I'm feeling much better this morning. I hit the guardrail HARD.

I'm really glad to hear that your injury was relative minor and that you are feeling better. :023: Unfortunately we had a couple of guardrail impacts this weekend and the guardrail won every one of them. :(

Terry

Gregg

10-10-2011, 04:49 PM

Talked with Michael's dad during the protest at Summit and he was mighty pissed at the previous owner. I have little doubt that he's SURE that the gears are legit.

That said, I'm still not entirely confident that the inquiry there was accurate, given Cameron's concerns watching the tech guys do their check and come to their conclusions.

Having run heads-up with him, I don't have undue concerns with the car.

K
Perhaps the receipt for the individual gears purchased by the current owner, and installed in the car (that were viewed by a member of the DC Region's tech staff after judgement had been passed) would ease your mind a bit.

As the person who filed the protest, I have no undue concerns about the outcome of the protest, though I do have concerns about the ability for one to constantly bring a car to the track with illegal pieces and claim ignorance of the rules laid out in the ITCS.

If the car was indeed made legal after MARRS 1 (and confirmed by the hosting region's tech staff as per the notes in his logbook), then congrats to him on each of his new records.

Knestis

10-10-2011, 05:51 PM

Gregg

10-10-2011, 07:55 PM

>> Perhaps the receipt for the individual gears purchased by the current owner, and installed in the car (that were viewed by a member of the DC Region's tech staff after judgement had been passed) would ease your mind a bit.

Sorry - not sure what you are saying here, Gregg...

K
I'm saying that some of us know what gears made their way into the box, and when they did (the entrant keeps very good records).

Again, I'm confident that the decision reached in the protest process was the correct one.

Knestis

10-10-2011, 10:41 PM

The tech procedure I watched seemed to include more than a little head scratching and puzzlement about how to do the ratio test. I don't recall receipts being part of the process... :)

K

gran racing

10-11-2011, 08:09 AM

yesterday's lap was lower than the record on the FLR web site

Yeah, they still had my old record - no idea why. So Marty's Glen record stands?

Glad to hear you're okay Drew. Too bad about the car but like you said, that can be repaired.

Drew M

10-11-2011, 10:40 AM

Thanks Dave. I'll get the car fixed and will (hopefully) be faster next year. The setup was all wrong and one of the plans for this winter is to fix that. Is it May yet?

mossaidis

10-12-2011, 12:32 AM

Slightly off topic, where can I find the latest WGI long course track records? The link from glen scca does not work and the pdf posted on nessca says it is up to date, i.e. 9/24/2011. If true, I think Bob Beede also broke the ITA record at 2.17.1 down from Greg's ~2:17.9. This is a partial loaded question since I think there's some scuddlebutt regarding the ITA record. Best, Mickey

Greg Amy

10-12-2011, 07:05 AM

...I think Bob Beede also broke the ITA record at 2.17.1 down from Greg's ~2:17.9.
Negative. That lap record, set in 2006 - which I thought would last for a while - only lasted until the first serious Miata assault (Marc Cefalo in '08? Got into the low 17s?) and then an allegedly-noncompliant Honda CRX during the end-of-year enduro (got into the high-16s). Marc in his Miata also broke my WGI short-course record that same weekend.

As far as I know, the only record I still hold is the NHMS chicane/chicane layout, which will never be used again (it was only used once subsequent to my 2006 record). The only other lap record up here I'm aware of that's not held by a Miata - please do correct me if incorrect - is Pocono, which is still held by Blaney in the CRX Si, set many years ago prior to the weights being raised in The Great Realignment. - GA

Andy Bettencourt

10-12-2011, 07:30 AM

Negative. That lap record, set in 2006 - which I thought would last for a while - only lasted until the first serious Miata assault (Marc Cefalo in '08? Got into the low 17s?) and then an allegedly-noncompliant Honda CRX during the end-of-year enduro (got into the high-16s). Marc in his Miata also broke my WGI short-course record that same weekend.

As far as I know, the only record I still hold is the NHMS chicane/chicane layout, which will never be used again (it was only used once subsequent to my 2006 record). The only other lap record up here I'm aware of that's not held by a Miata - please do correct me if incorrect - is Pocono, which is still held by Blaney in the CRX Si, set many years ago prior to the weights being raised in The Great Realignment. - GA

I think what Greg is talking about at WGI is a 2:17 flatish from a VW at that enduro but I could be wrong. I HATE enduro records.

The track was crazy fast this past weekend.

I think NJMPL is a Teg and Thunder is probably Marc? So:

NHMS Long: Miata
NHMS Short: NX2000
LRP: Miata
Glen: VW
Pocono: CRX
NJMPL: Teg
NJMPT: Miata

Terry Hanushek

10-12-2011, 09:50 AM

Current lap records

NJMP Lightning

ITR Dave Maynard BMW 325i -- 1:15.021 -- 91.17 -- 10/19/08
ITS Matt Rooke Mazda RX7 -- 1:15.066 -- 91.12 -- 10/19/08
ITA Geoff Branscombe Acura Integra -- 1:17.073 -- 88.75 -- 10/19/08
ITB Beran Peter Volkswagen Golf -- 1:18.344 -- 87.31 -- 10/19/08
ITC Roger Troxel Honda Civic -- 1:22.052 -- 83.36 -- 7/19/09

NJMP Thunderbolt

ITR Bill Ball BMW M3 -- 1:32.726 -- 87.35 -- 9/13/09
ITS Jeff Henderson BMW 323i -- 1:33.126 -- 86.98 -- 6/05/11
ITA James Price Mazda Miata -- 1:34.443 -- 85.77 -- 8/21/10
ITB Michael Tinis Volkswagen Golf -- 1:37.851 -- 82.78 -- 6/05/11
ITC Valerie Heun Honda Civic -- 1:43.938 -- 77.93 -- 8/21/10

mossaidis

10-12-2011, 11:06 AM

where can I find the latest WGI long course track records? i stand by my first question... :)

seckerich

10-12-2011, 11:39 AM

Southeast does not count lap records in an enduro because the car could be light first stint and loaded with fuel late. If there is a pit stop allowed, no record is set.

mossaidis

10-12-2011, 12:03 PM

Southeast does not count lap records in an enduro because the car could be light first stint and loaded with fuel late. If there is a pit stop allowed, no record is set.

That is my understanding as well. i would imagine tracks and regions would not honor enduro records though I am happy for the drivers that "broke" them.

Greg Amy

10-12-2011, 12:18 PM

From what I remember, the supps for that enduro at WGI actually said that track lap records would not be honored. However, someone messed up, it was not caught nor protested.

Doesn't matter, a Miata will break that lap record again soon anyway...

GA, waiting for Andy's head to asplode.

mossaidis

10-12-2011, 12:24 PM

Greg Amy

10-12-2011, 12:41 PM

Apparently you still have the track record for the long course at WGI.
That would be nice, but it's incorrect. Marc definitely went faster than that in '09 - hell, DiMinno went a few tenths faster in that same race chasing Marc - and the enduro guy went even faster at the end-year enduro. I remember, 'cause I was incessantly taunted by DiMinno via texts... ;)

Greg Amy

10-12-2011, 01:01 PM

Here's Marc's short course record, Fun One '09:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1319793

Here's Marc's long course record (and DiMinno beating my time), Last Chance '09:
http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2009/Last_Chance_2009_Race_Results.pdf#Group6

It appears that they did not credit Marc with a lap record on the time sheets. I'd forgotten that Gump was in that race too; I heard the ITA battle was epic!

Here's the Honda's enduro time of 2:16.8, Last Chance Enduro '09:
http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2009/2009_Enduro_Race_Results.pdf

I see at the bottom there's no mention of a lap record...

Marc Cefalo is the legitimate long-course lap record holder at WGI with a 2:17.086.

On edit: I sent an email to the registrar and webmaster, requesting that correction. - GA

Andy Bettencourt

10-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Doesn't matter, a Miata will break that lap record again soon anyway...

GA, waiting for Andy's head to asplode.

Why, you are right. :)

dtanthon

10-13-2011, 01:47 PM

Results are posted on NeSCCA.com (link (http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/crr11resultswg3.pdf)).

During Pro IT
New Track Record (2:14.137) for ITS by Jeff Henderson.
New Track Record (2:22.619) for ITB by Michael Tinis
New Track Record (2:17.328) for ITA by Robert Beede

and during the regional race
2:12.743 ITR 10/8/2011 by (70) Abdulrab Aziz

Greg Amy

10-13-2011, 02:19 PM

Darrell, please see three posts up...while a good, fast time, that is not a new ITA lap record... - GA

Andy Bettencourt

10-13-2011, 02:37 PM

Darrell, please see three posts up...while a good, fast time, that is not a new ITA lap record... - GA

Unless Pro IT keeps their own lap records...for the series?

dtanthon

10-13-2011, 04:59 PM

I saw that, I wear glasses but I'm not blind.

I'm just the messenger pointing to the results for this event that show that new lap records we achieved. If they are inaccurate then you must correspond (with data to back it up) with the Chief of Timing and Scoring for that event. Then the Chief of Timing and Scoring will make the correction and report that so these can be published on the NeSCCA site. As far as I know the NeSCCA site is the keeper of all track records for the northeast division.

Pro IT is just a regional series using regional classes that met all the rules for those classes, nothing special about us. No special records for us.

kcolbey

10-13-2011, 07:57 PM

I was just alerted of the issue with the lap records. As the Chief of T&S for Glen, I want to get the bottom of who has the record. In Orbits we had a time which very well may have been the record, but by who was inaccurate. Orbits shows the ITA record of 2:16.896 set 7/24/2005 by David Gran. the NESCCA record stated it was a 2:17.9XX I went to the 2005 results and David Gran did not set that time. Without any better data, I reverted back to the NESCCA record and claimed the new time as the record. Carl Driese and I will review the records and hopefully have a definitive answer soon. We will work to revise the NESCCA records to accurately reflect the real record. If you guys ever have a question in the future, please contact me. I'll do my best to give a satisfying answer.

Greg Amy

10-13-2011, 08:37 PM

Also sent via PM:

Good evening. In regard to the ITA lap record on the Long Course at Watkins Glen, I re-set the lap record in July of 2006 at 2:17.900

http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2006/July_Sprints_2006_Group3.pdf

...which is what is currently listed on the FLR web page. However, at the Last Change Regionals in October 2009, Marc Cefalo re-set that record to 2:17.086; see Group 6:

http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2009/Last_Chance_2009_Race_Results.pdf#Group6

In the Last Chance Enduro that same weekend, another ITA car went faster, at a 2:16.896, however the supplementary regulations - as is customary - specifically stated that lap records will not be honored during the enduro event:

http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2009/2009_Enduro_Race_Results.pdf

Therefore, the correct ITA lap record for the long course at Watkins Glen is 2:17.086, set by Marc Cefalo in a Miata on October 11, 2009.

Greg Amy

gran racing

10-13-2011, 09:14 PM

Orbits shows the ITA record of 2:16.896 set 7/24/2005 by David Gran.

I'll take it!!!! Orbits is my new favorite. Although I drive an ITB car and unfortunately can't get to those lap times.

Terry Hanushek

10-13-2011, 09:41 PM

Dave

Front Running IT Racecar For Sale: ITB Honda Prelude (http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29662)
Multi track record and race winning car; '10 NARRC Runoffs winner

Just think how much more valuable your ITB car will be if it holds the ITA record at a real horsepower track! :)

Terry

Kai Noeske

10-14-2011, 12:44 AM

Dave

Just think how much more likely to be torn down in tech your ITB car will be if it holds the ITA record at a real horsepower track! :)

Terry

... to point out another important consequence... :D

JohnRW

10-14-2011, 01:00 PM

In the Last Chance Enduro that same weekend, another ITA car went faster, at a 2:16.896, however the supplementary regulations - as is customary - specifically stated that lap records will not be honored during the enduro event:

http://www.glen-scca.org/roadracing/2009/2009_Enduro_Race_Results.pdf

Therefore, the correct ITA lap record for the long course at Watkins Glen is 2:17.086, set by Marc Cefalo in a Miata on October 11, 2009.

Greg Amy

Greg -

I don't have the supps from 2009, but I remember being contacted post-race by Marc and Joe..as they had an epic battle that weekend on the Long Course. I recall that the supps did not have any language regarding non-recognition of enduro fast laps...I looked into it as I was had some steward thing to do that weekend, along with "flying" my SRF under S/F as the green came out (when the guy in front of you misses a shift, just hit him square in the ass...if you try to dodge and catch a tire, you're on the "up elevator" to Crashville).

That said..."true enduro" (driver change, refueling, etc.) fast laps should not be recognized as lap records as there is no way to verify who was driving & what the car weighed when that fast lap was cut. IMO.