Scca club racing non-specatator events

[dj10]

I am amazed to understand this still… It’s not like I’ve not know about SCCA Club Racing being a non-spectator event but as a businessman I am sick in my stomach to see all this potential earning for the regions, SCCA and events like the ProIT just get flushed down the toilet because of this antiquated way of thinking and doing business by the SCCA and regions. I don’t see any additional protection needed at any of these events that I’ve been at for possible spectators and I’d like to know what the actual cost of the insurance would be. As long as you don't let them into the hot pits, where's the danger? I doubt these events will bring in hoards of people but anything is better than nothing. I heard NASA draws all kinds of spectators to their events and from what I’ve heard NASA is growing while SCCA is floundering and only relying on the club members to support the club. What is the difference of the membership and competition license fees between NASA and SCCA? Maybe it’s time to bring the SCCA into the 21st century.

[Ron Earp]

I heard NASA draws all kinds of spectators to their events and from what I’ve heard NASA is growing

I don't know if NASA is growing in relation to the SCCA. But I can confirm that NASA does draw a good number of non-racers and interested parties to the paddock.

I attended a NASA race event at VIR back in July. There were large numbers of people in and around the paddock who were there to learn about racing, look at cars, and check out the scene. I think the the membership numbers that would come from this activity is somewhat minimal but at least it is there and non-club members can see what is going on. I can't see any downsides.

[Butch Kummer]

Since at least the mid-90's all Atlanta Region events have been spectator events so someone else will have to explain why theirs are not. There used to be an insurance premium difference between spectator and non-spectator, but that went away a couple of years ago.

Our contract with Road Atlanta requires that we allow spectators and they make those events part of the season-ticket package they offer. I suspect part of the reason (other than "we've always done it that way") is the tracks would need to bring in extra staff to handle opening up all the spectator areas. I know we went to an event at Mid-Ohio years ago and we were not allowed to cross the drive-over bridge into the infield even though we were participants.

[gran racing]

With some tracks, the fees would go to the track not SCCA.


But I can confirm that NASA does draw a good number of non-racers and interested parties to the paddock.

There's good and bad with this. This weekend at the Glen I left my truck keys and wallet in the center console, never giving it a tought. All of my tools were left out over night, the video camera attached to the roll bar, the racecar unlocked, tires left out....this was true for almost everyone at the track.

At the NASA events held at Summit Point, there's no way in hell I'm leaving ANYTHING out. There have been plenty of instances where stuff is stolen, and other issues are created.

Oh, ask Jake Gulick on his Road Atlanta spectator enjoyment. <sigh> While for the ARRC I agree it's nice to have as an open event, we can not forget that sometimes it might not be worth it. Like you said, not like many of our events will draw a lot of people anyways. Guess we'd need the rollover and female wet t-shirt contests to do that. lol

[dave parker]

Washington DC Region SCCA events at Summit Point are ALL spectator events and have been since I started going to races there in the early nineties.
This was at the request of the track owner who wanted spectators. I think it is still a good idea unless there is someone who can convince me that we should continue to be the Secret Car Club of America.

However, the SCCA will need to do much more than have spectators at road races to grow itself.

Dave Gran, you should stop being so trusting and lock your stuff up. There are thieves at SCCA regional and national events too.

cheers
dave parker

[Terry Hanushek]

Dan


I am amazed to understand this still… It’s not like I’ve not know about SCCA Club Racing being a non-spectator event but as a businessman I am sick in my stomach to see all this potential earning for the regions, SCCA and events like the ProIT just get flushed down the toilet because of this antiquated way of thinking and doing business by the SCCA and regions. I don’t see any additional protection needed at any of these events that I’ve been at for possible spectators and I’d like to know what the actual cost of the insurance would be. As long as you don't let them into the hot pits, where's the danger? I doubt these events will bring in hoards of people but anything is better than nothing.

The distinction between spectator and non-spectator events is somewhat blurred in SCCA. The liability rate differential between spectator and non-spectator events was removed in 2009. Even before 2009, a limited number of spectators (less than 1000?) could have been admitted under the non-spectator rate. The spectator rate was reserved for major events (think June Sprints, Runoffs) where there was a major promotion and x thousand spectators. Liability insurance is required when paying individuals are admitted to private property to protect against all manners of injury / lawsuits not just exposure to race cars.

I believe that most SCCA events are now conducted as spectator events from a sanction / insurance prospective. Sanction numbers 11-X-NNNN-S are spectator events. Even if they are not, there is no financial penalty from doing so.

Just because the sanction / insurance will permit spectators does not mean that ticket revenue is 'gravy' for SCCA or the region. There are definite costs associated with spectators - promotion / ticket distribution, security, etc. The potential revenue (variable) must exceed the costs (mostly fixed).

That said, each track situation is different. As Butch said, Road Atlanta requires spectator events. He didn't say who collects the revenues and who pays the expenses but I suspect that it is a track venture. At NJMP, our Club Racing events are on their spectator event schedule with the track managing the revenue / expense. Lately, we have been working with them to help with their promotion. We prefer spectator events from the exposure standpoint but do not have the resources to conduct our own spectator program. We feel that having a successful track-sponsored spectator event is a win-win because - if the track prospers, they can keep the facility open and will give us favorable access and privileges. We are anticipating expanded cooperation in 2012.

Terry

[gran racing]

Dave Gran, you should stop being so trusting and lock your stuff up.

My stuff isn't worth stealing. lol

[Kai Noeske]

My stuff isn't worth stealing. lol

But you should still remember to throw it into your truck before you drive home :lol:

[dj10]

It's is pretty damn embarrassing to tell my sponsors or friends thay can't come up to Walkins Glen and watch the races because they (who they?) don't want them there!!! I was at Atlanta when Jakes wallet got stolen...major bummer and if i would have caught them they wouldn't had to worry about jail. We can't let this hinder what is good for racing in general and that is to open up all tracks & club racing to spectators.

BTW Butch you can drive across the bridge @ Mid Ohio now. I beleive Ron Earp NASA is growing and SCCA is becoming a mediocare at best racing organization and they better get off their collective asses and do something about this! Lead or get out of the way!

[dave parker]

Note to Gran
On next trip to Summit Point, leave all belongings brought to Summit with Dave Parker, including race car.

What items I cannot use myself will be distributed to folks more needy than I.

That is all.

cheers
dave parker

[gran racing]

It's is pretty damn embarrassing to tell my sponsors or friends thay can't come up to Walkins Glen and watch the races because they (who they?) don't want them there!!!

That's all on you Dan. Did you speak with people at registration before or contact the RE? The women who did registration had both her e-mail and phone number. I've reached out to regions in these instances and had absolutely no problems. You could have also posted on this forum with a simple "looking for crew spots". Both Kai and myself had no one listed on our crew spots and would have been happy to help out.

In the end, you told your sponsors or friends they couldn't come. ;)

Yes, I agree it would be nice if it were easier but at the same token......

[dj10]

That's all on you Dan. Did you speak with people at registration before or contact the RE? The women who did registration had both her e-mail and phone number. I've reached out to regions in these instances and had absolutely no problems. You could have also posted on this forum with a simple "looking for crew spots". Both Kai and myself had no one listed on our crew spots and would have been happy to help out.

In the end, you told your sponsors or friends they couldn't come. ;)

Yes, I agree it would be nice if it were easier but at the same token......

What same token Dave? Your missing the point....I shouldn't have to do any of this, people should be allowed to spectate a sport that they love or just mabye they want to get out of their homes on a beautiful fall weekend, whatever... The tracks and the regions make out due to more sales including consessions. I see a 100 reasons for this to happen and 0 reasons for not.

BTW I will have them on my crew list and will pay for over crew if I have too.

[gran racing]

The "same token" is that you obviously didn't put enough effort in to make it happen. There were ways for you to get those individuals in to the event.

The good and bad of a member driven club is that WE need to step forward and make changes and improvements. If you feel strongly enough about something, step up. The club is made up of volunteers. I am not missing the point, and have been where you are but about something different. I decided it was time to do what I can to improve upon a situation I felt needed an improvement was needed with a section of our club. Guess now you see a way things can be improved and it's your time. ;)

[Andy Bettencourt]

I see this 2 ways, if I was just a one-man-show, I wouldn't want 'just anyone' bombing around the pits with access to my area, my stuff, my trailer etc. It's not the culture we have, nor one I would want to have to lock everything everytime I turned my head...so NO, if you want spectators, they are on you - OR, they are to use the real spectator areas, which is to say no pit access.

And THAT, is just BORING in todays day and age. Nobody would do it at anything other than large, special events. Our NARRC Runoffs gets good spectator turnout but 90% of it must be generated by the CT Cub Scout camp out that weekend....and they have FULL access to the pits. Having a 'compound', 2 huge awenings and 4-5 employees there allows me to think about other things but if I was a guy with just a truck and a trailer and no second set of eyes, I might be a touch nervous.

If it's a sponsor issue, put them on your crew list.

[Bob Roth]

At 55, I worry about the future outlook of any group that has more members older than me! The advantage of more public involvement is that show up to the track to watch a race cause they think its cool are our best candidates for future club members, staff and workers etc.

[gpeluso]

Dan,
told you that this is a waste of time...... BTW what site can I go to see GRO PRO filming any SCCA races? If pro-it works.....run with other groups....bet they will welcome you guys with open arms...... Maybe next year you can run at Hyperfest at Summit....any SCCA events like that?

Greg

[mossaidis]

Not for nothing, yet T and I have thought up 10 different variations on an IT commercial. Yes, commercial promoting IT and event dates - yes we'll youtube it. Pick a rivalry for each variation, ITR, ITS, ITA, etc. All we need is slow motion video clips of us getting in our cars, passing, spins, crashes (well a few), checkered flags, blood, sweat and (regional-only) tears with segments timed in sequence to lease breaker music (think ride of the valkyres) in the background... le fin! Sorta NASCAR boiler plate stuff yet hopefully with an original twist. Well... guess we could do it, but we would rather promote all NARRC IT events not just NARRCoffs.

On a seperate note, someone a few years ago mentioned that they were or met a English chap at NARRCoffs. The englishman said "I can't more ppl aren't here! In the england, this place would be packed!". Yup... it's a shame.

[RacerBill]

Dan,
BTW what site can I go to see GRO PRO filming any SCCA races?

Greg

Lots of SCCA footage on the Race-Keeper YouTube channel.

[RacerBill]

I
If it's a sponsor issue, put them on your crew list.

I agree that we as drivers can do this. However, there are a couple of things that make this less than ideal.

1) registration is open only during a restricted timeframe. If your guests don't arrive when registration is open, what then? And then you have to tell everyone who might want to come and watch. Also, if your race is the last race of the day, your guests have to be there most of the day.

2) having to add specific names to the driver's packet leaves out people who just happen to drop by and want to see what's going on.

3) some regions are very open to the idea of listing 'anyone who asks', but other regions don't. Since the regions don't announce their policy, every driver who wants to take advantage of this method of adding guests has to verify this with the registrar at every event. And since it is unwritten, it is up to the discretion of the people at registration.

I hear the arguments about having to watch our equipment when there are spectators roaming around the paddock. Maybe we could each watch out for our fellow driver's stuff.

One of the attractions of other forms of racing is the accessibility of the drivers to the fans. I think that SCCA needs to become more accessible. Make it easier for people to learn about our sport.

Let's think outside of the box to make this easier.

[Z3_GoCar]

All our events are open paddock/spectator and yet we don't even draw the locals. When I stopped for Ice in Buttonwillow, I mentioned going to the race track and free admission. The lady behind the counter replyed, "All that stuff's online isn't it" meaning the locals don't even bother looking up what's happening 5 miles away. If that's the case how are we to draw someone from 150miles away in LA?




On a seperate note, someone a few years ago mentioned that they were or met a English chap at NARRCoffs. The englishman said "I can't more ppl aren't here! In the england, this place would be packed!". Yup... it's a shame.

The English are an ecentric lot, they are also count loging aircraft tail numbers as a sport.

[lateapex911]

Andy's right...I get nervous at "open" events. I can't be guarding my chit while I'm on the track.
Epilogue:
At Atlanta, somebody went into my enclosed trailer, opened my gear bag, pulled out my pants, and pulled out my wallet. And went directly to Walmart. And Chucky Cheese, McDonalds, etc etc.
I discovered it immediately, called the bank, who said there had been no activity and shut the card down. Well, it turned out the bank screwed up...the card was active for a week. Mr thief went back to Walmart everyday. As he did all sort of other white trash joints. $5000 worth of fat food crap and who knows what...Oddly, the police took all the info, and the bank couldn't be bothered with calling Walmart to get the photos taken of every transaction. Man...so EASy to bust a guy, but nobody cared. And we wonder why criminals exist....

Anyway, Dan, you can't compare SCCA to NASA. The guys running NASA events are profiting on the event. Nobody working an SCCA event makes a penny...actually, everybody entering the gates loses money that weekend. (Except the vendors). So, what we need is ...in each region/track,.... a guy to create a staff/system/agreement with the track and region to facilitate spectators.

I imagine the first events will be rough, with little results. Over time, it might grow. Or not. Dave begged me to go to the Glen with him (this past weekend), but, sorry, thats WAY too much time and lets face it, watching racing at the Glen is booooring. (As a crew, you're pretty much screwed)*

That's part of the problem. You need a working PA, and an announcer that knows his stuff. Cue Dave Parker. At Summit, he's up in the tower, and he knows everybody, so he can crack a joke, or just basically call the race, making it 1000x more interesting.

I think it's a classic cost/benefit deal. WILL we get more participants? How much will that cost us? Who will do it?? Will our stuff get stolen??

*Another aspect to me is that we don't live in 1973 anymore. We have the internet. People sitting next to each other text each other. TONS of kids would WAY rather play a video came driving a fake car and shooting cops than actually get in the car with their parents and drive an hour to go see a REAL car. And fathers have to be at soccer games, swim meets, basketball practices...for their daughters! There is just WAY more to do and families are way more "kids first' than they used to be. Summit draws spectators for Hyperfest for roll over contests, wet T shirt contests, epic partying and general debauchery. Some of the specators actually watch a race or two as well...

[gran racing]

Hyperfest at Summit....any SCCA events like that?

LOL!!! Hopefully not. It's been the only time I've written the track afterwards to complain. It's interesting to watch but after experiencing it a couple of times.


told you that this is a waste of time......

That's it? Wow, you give up easily. I have to imagine there are some solutions which would achive both goals.

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's also easy to act locally. At NHMS, the registrars will leave a list of people you want to at the window after they close so the timing isn't an issue. Problem solved.

As for 'walk-ins'...to get them, you need publicity. The track won't do it because it will cost them more than they will bring in and the Regions can't afford it even if they got some of the money. Having said that, most anyone can walk up and pay to get into an SCCA race these days.

So what is the real question? You can fortify your crew list, leave names for after hours and we can do walk-ins. If it's 'how do we get more walk ins?' then that is a whole 'nother deal.

[Ron Earp]

At 55, I worry about the future outlook of any group that has more members older than me! The advantage of more public involvement is that show up to the track to watch a race cause they think its cool are our best candidates for future club members, staff and workers etc.

I agree with you. Operational differences between NASA and the SCCA aside, walking around the paddock at a NASA event is an eye opener for a number of reasons. The average age of the participant is much lower, probably in their upper 20s and early/mid thirties. The cars are more modern and in many cases it appears that there is no shortage of money.

And yes, I'm loyal to the SCCA and love the SCCA regions I race in, but look, the NASA people have a "can do" or "yes you can" attitude that can make their organization attractive to the new racer. Forgot your license (I did)? No problem. Jane connects to the internet while sitting in the registration area and clears that license in literally twelve seconds (yes I counted). Done. No drama. No faxes. No calling Topeka on an emergency hotline. Your buddy forgot his license too (he did)? No problem. Regardless of how it happens, NASA has a very racer friendly atmosphere that sometimes is lacking in the SCCA.

All that said, I prefer the SCCA. I suspect I prefer it because I started there and now have a large network of friends in the club. But I imagine that had I started in NASA I'd be there now. And that is what we must consider when we think about the future of the club, where are new racers starting?

[joeg]

You can spectate at Nelson Ledges.

[dj10]

The fact is that "Racing in all forms is a spectator sport" plain and simple. Now lets get the SCCA & the racing faculities to think that way so we don't lose out to NASA.

[ner88]

We at NER sign contracts with the tracks. We do not have spectator privilages, we are basically allowed 3 crew per driver, thats it! If you want to spectate you muct pay the track.
We only keep registration open limited hours because the people who man the windows volunteer. If you want to keep the windows open longer volunteer your time!
Andy, (for the record) there is no late list, NHMS stopped it a couple of years ago.

[EV]

At the NASA events held at Summit Point, there's no way in hell I'm leaving ANYTHING out. There have been plenty of instances where stuff is stolen, and other issues are created.

If this was at the Hyperfest, then ya, it's true. At their regular events, never seen/heard of an issue.

[EV]

I agree with you. Operational differences between NASA and the SCCA aside, walking around the paddock at a NASA event is an eye opener for a number of reasons. The average age of the participant is much lower, probably in their upper 20s and early/mid thirties. The cars are more modern and in many cases it appears that there is no shortage of money.

And yes, I'm loyal to the SCCA and love the SCCA regions I race in, but look, the NASA people have a "can do" or "yes you can" attitude that can make their organization attractive to the new racer. Forgot your license (I did)? No problem. Jane connects to the internet while sitting in the registration area and clears that license in literally twelve seconds (yes I counted). Done. No drama. No faxes. No calling Topeka on an emergency hotline. Your buddy forgot his license too (he did)? No problem. Regardless of how it happens, NASA has a very racer friendly atmosphere that sometimes is lacking in the SCCA.

All that said, I prefer the SCCA. I suspect I prefer it because I started there and now have a large network of friends in the club. But I imagine that had I started in NASA I'd be there now. And that is what we must consider when we think about the future of the club, where are new racers starting?
I have had a similar circumstance. I registered for an event, and my membership was going to be expired by event time. I got a call on the phone from the local group reminding me to renew.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, (for the record) there is no late list, NHMS stopped it a couple of years ago.

At the RAL on Saturday I showed up at 11:30am. Was asked if I was on 'the list'. Saw the list too. Luckily, the Registrars were coming back in to find something and looked me up via crew list.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The fact is that "Racing in all forms is a spectator sport" plain and simple. Now lets get the SCCA & the racing faculities to think that way so we don't lose out to NASA.

Come on Dan, road racing sucks as a spectator sport. At WGI you can see what, 1/20th of the racing surface? I would venture to guess that NASA events are well attended because they are EVENTS...with much more to see and do than the small time their RR program has on track.

[dj10]

Come on Dan, road racing sucks as a spectator sport.

How many people does road racing in europe draw..ask Rob Thiele, and from everything I've seen and been reading it is growing here in the states. Hell even a lot of the nascar guys like it better than the circle tracks! To have a track say" your a spectator we don't want you here" is BS! BTW when I watch the races @ the Glen I drive to the different corners as long as the races aren't 5 laps or something stupid. I love to watch Henderson & Driscoll beat on each other.:)

[Russ Myers]

And Football, (pardon, soccer) is all the rage in Europe. How well does it play here?

Russ

[mossaidis]

“The M.L.S. won’t be the N.F.L. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_football_league/index.html?inline=nyt-org) in our lifetime,” said Jeff L’Hote, a consultant to soccer teams and companies interested in working with them. “Maybe it’s not as sexy as some want, but we’ll see steady growth.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/sports/soccer/24soccer.html

ok fine - you're comparing soccer to RRacing. At one dimension, I think the arguement here is NASA vs SCCA, let's keep it on topic. I still don't see the cause for my why SCCA organizers and tracks (generally speaking) do not allow spectators much like NASA does. Explain.

[dj10]

And Football, (pardon, soccer) is all the rage in Europe. How well does it play here?

Russ

Russ have you heard of the world cup and team USA is in it and it is also growing by leaps and bounds? Just sayin......

[Knestis]

We've been having variations of this conversation since I joined SCCA in 1979. It's better now than it has been at other times (see Butch's point) but we are still going to struggle unless someone really takes the initiative to improve spectator participation and access. And as was mentioned, there's really no return on that UNLESS it's a commercial effort (a la NASA).

K

[racecarjohn]

I was racing at a spectator event at Summit Point. It was a night enduro a few years back. Without a full moon it was very dark. The good old boys that were spectating started a bon fire that was huge(I'm sure gasoline was used to start it). I am talking 40, 50 feet high, 15 to 20 feet wide. This lite up turns 5,6 and 7 like it was day light When I reached that part of the track, right after it started, I thought a car had crashed and was burning up. It was pretty scary. After a few more laps I could see it was just a party with a 30 foot bon fire.

Just Saying:D

[Knestis]

There was a couch on that fire, among other things...

K

[Kai Noeske]

There was a couch on that fire, among other things...

K

I assume events like this led to restrictions that spawned the "Free Turn Five" movement...? :D


... and WHERE ON EARTH do people find a couch at Summit Point??? :blink:

[dj10]

There was a couch on that fire, among other things...

K

Are you sure you weren't at the Wva campus K? :D

[ITEGT]

:dead_horse:

[128 racecar]

My vintage racing club (VSCDA) did a marketing survey that included our new club members over that last few years, and found that the vast majority of our new racers joined after attending one of our events as a spectator. That's how I got interested 15 years ago.

I make an effort to chat it up with spectators at the events. One of them may be a paddock mate next year!

(I hide/lock up my wallet and valuables every event, spectators or not!)

Marc in Indy

[dj10]

That's it? Wow, you give up easily. I have to imagine there are some solutions which would achive both goals.

Dave,
As much as I'd like this to happen, one person can't make it happen. This is a club and thus we need bright people with some kind of vision to help see it implimented if possible. Since every track and every region is different how do we start? I would think that some kind of mandate would have to come from SCCA National. Who is a contact that we need to talk to @ SCCA? If you have to talk to the regions then I have nothing I can do because i'm only a part of Steel Cities Region and I have no say so in the Finger Lakes Region as an example. Then we have to convince the people that are afraid of spetators rooting around in their trailers that they are ALL not the enemy. Most of these people are there to be entertained and possibly learn about cars and racing from interactions with the drivers and crews.
I'm all for this and I beleive the SCCA can be so much more....

Imagination is more important than knowledge...
Albert Einstein (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Albert_Einstein/)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

[gran racing]

As much as I'd like this to happen, one person can't make it happen.

You're correct, however it needs to start somewhere and by someone. I absolutely think you or someone else could make an impact on this subject. Don't get totally discouraged when you run into road blocks. The toughest part I find with SCCA is how (as someone else explained it to me) it's like a big slow moving ship; it can take a while to turn it around.

I do agree we need to make events accessible to people potentially interested in becoming involved in our club. I personally don't think that SCCA should change it's approach significantly to focus on drawing in spectators who just want to watch things unrelated to club racing.

Dan, I'd start with a call to Rick Myers at the national office. Nice guy and he's open to ideas and help. Probably wait a couple of weeks until the Ruboffs are over.

[Andy Bettencourt]

My vintage racing club (VSCDA) did a marketing survey that included our new club members over that last few years, and found that the vast majority of our new racers joined after attending one of our events as a spectator. That's how I got interested 15 years ago.

I make an effort to chat it up with spectators at the events. One of them may be a paddock mate next year!

(I hide/lock up my wallet and valuables every event, spectators or not!)

Marc in Indy

But people go to Vintage races to watch the spectacular machinery. Not so much at a typical club race.

[dj10]

You're correct, however it needs to start somewhere and by someone. I absolutely think you or someone else could make an impact on this subject. Don't get totally discouraged when you run into road blocks. The toughest part I find with SCCA is how (as someone else explained it to me) it's like a big slow moving ship; it can take a while to turn it around.

I do agree we need to make events accessible to people potentially interested in becoming involved in our club. I personally don't think that SCCA should change it's approach significantly to focus on drawing in spectators who just want to watch things unrelated to club racing.

Dan, I'd start with a call to Rick Myers at the national office. Nice guy and he's open to ideas and help. Probably wait a couple of weeks until the Ruboffs are over.

Thanks Dave!
If I get discouraged easily I would not be racing.:) I will talk to Rick in a couple.. and I do agree we want to draw the good car people interested in the cars and the sport. Every driver & crew member is potentially an ambassador of the sport, their race series, region & their organization. I've personally made a mistake in my younger days while racing bikes @ Daytona that I regret to this day. Live and learn.

[Knestis]

Are you sure you weren't at the Wva campus K? :D

WV couches only have a short lifespan if the Mountaineers are winning. If they are losing, then furniture spend leisurely hours on porches soaking up spilled Hurricane.

I actually watched the couch go onto the bonfire as I down the hill. There was a huge explosion of red sparks as a half-dozen guys chucked it on there. It's always amazing to me how much you can see out in the hinterlands while on the track.

The story I heard was that the couch spent most of the 12 hours holding up spectators' butts, then near the end it gave its life for heat and light.

K

[Butch Kummer]

Having spectators or not is certainly up to each region, not the National office. It can only be implemented at the local level. If your events are not currently spectator events you need to take it up at the local level (and be willing to head up the organizational effort - complaints without a possible solution are viewed as whining).

As I wrote before, our contract with Road Atlanta requires all our weekends be spectator events (which is why we no longer have Drivers Schools or dedicated Time Trial events there). We split the cost of the extra staff with the track and share the gate profits with them after a certain (achievable) minimum is met. Our Barber weekend is also open to spectators but the track covers the additional staffing (and keeps all the ticket money). Due to local ordinance AMP will be a non-spectator track (like Roebling) but we WILL figure out some way to allow those that are interested to attend (sign a waiver and pay a nominal "guest" fee?).

Bottom line - we think having spectators is a good thing and we'll do what's necessary to make it happen. Yes we've had problems with theft, but do we know for sure it's non-racers that stole the stuff? We also now have notices in the Supps and posted at
Registration reminding folks to secure their valuables when they're on the track. Not only does having spectators attract new people to the sport (much like the PDX sessions we run during Quiet Time on Sunday) but we feel it makes our events more attractive to the average racer.

You need to get with the host region (preferably in a non-confrontational, one-on-one conversation) not the National office.

[dave parker]

WV couches only have a short lifespan if the Mountaineers are winning. If they are losing, then furniture spend leisurely hours on porches soaking up spilled Hurricane.

I actually watched the couch go onto the bonfire as I down the hill. There was a huge explosion of red sparks as a half-dozen guys chucked it on there. It's always amazing to me how much you can see out in the hinterlands while on the track.

The story I heard was that the couch spent most of the 12 hours holding up spectators' butts, then near the end it gave its life for heat and light.

K

I can tell you as a member of the "Turn Five Gang" that we had a great time watching that race seated on the couch. We then sacrificed the couch to the gods of fire and racing ritualistically, while drowning ourselves in beer.
A good time was had by all including the couch, which gave all it had to give.

cheers
dave parker

[Z3_GoCar]

Dan,

You're definetly not off the mark on your desire to open up spectating to "interested parties." I myself attended my first club race as a crew memeber at Laguna Seca, after working the swing shift at a local gas station. When a FSV team came in looking for air for trailer tires, I got an invite to hang out in the paddock on Sunday. At the time getting into the paddock required all but a security clearance. I hung out with their Club Ford guy, drank a couple of waters and thoughly enjoyed the event. About that time I started Kart racing.

[dj10]

Thanks Butch!! I can be diplomatic believe it or not. :~)

[callard]

Nothing more iconic than charging down the chute at night towards a 30 foot high bonfire :023:
Sigh, now Elvis lives.

[dave parker]

Chuck
We appreciated you doing it to. Along with everyone else that risked the loss of their night vision charging into our fun zone.

Last report from the Labor Day Double was that Reverend Elvis was completely off his chain on Saturday night with respect to campers and bonfires. Even Reverend Elvis' security guard partner said he was "out of control". Complaints were made to the region RE and to the track manager. Sunday night Reverend Elvis was not seen anywhere on the facility. Maybe the powers that run Summit have finally figured out that this clown needs to go away.

Free Turn Five! tm.

cheers
dave parker