Cheap Date

[Greg Amy]

Awful quiet around here...STL car is ready so I'm giving thought to showing up this weekend. I hear rumors of a special guest appearance in IT7...

[Eric Parham]

I'd love to go, but don't have a working racecar at the moment. Anyone have or know of a rental? Although I ran ITC and STU at NH back in May, any class would do.

[preparedcivic]

The car will be there in ITB with my kid driving. NER went way out of their way to get Robby signed off, so we're trying to do some payback with an entry or two. :happy204:

I'm on sabbatical this weekend just playing crew chief, since a double driver dip in STL would require one of us to run STL, in a group with Miatae and now apparently tGA :rolleyes:. This is also late in the day Group 6 as well and with a 6+ hour ride home on what will be the new RV maiden voyage weekend, I think I'll have enough to deal with without being pooped getting home close to midnight Sunday.

[nlevine]

Was hoping to make it, but in getting the car running after it had been sitting for three years, I uncovered more issues than I have time to fix. :(

[Raceman77]

And who is the guest apperiance??

[rthiele]

The STIG??! :happy204:

[RSTPerformance]

I am hoping to drive one of the Audi's if we can get one together, would love to challenge for the win in ITB but its been about 5 years since we ran the Audi's at NHMS in a sprint race... It is not their favorite track. None the less it would be nice to be back out on the track. I can't believe it has been about a year!!!

Stephen is bringing the RX-8 and we are hoping it is sorted out!!! We will be running that car in the test day to try and get it dialed in. It should be exciting getting lapped by my brother in something other than his Audi ;)

Tim Dugan is bringing back the Golf to challenge the ITB field... He couldn't resist trying to catch those old Volvo's!!!

Raymond

[RSTPerformance]

Just re-checked the entry...

15 ITA Cars
15 ITB Cars
7 ITR Cars
6 ITS Cars
2 IT7 Cars
1 ITC Cars

Its good to see 48 IT cars heading to NHMS!!! Should be a GREAT weekend!!!

[tom91ita]

The car will be there in ITB with my kid driving. ............

enjoy! should be fun.

[rthiele]

Does anyone know if dogs are allowed in the paddock of NHMS?

[Greg Amy]

Does anyone know if dogs are allowed in the paddock of NHMS?
They are, on leash, you clean up after them. We're bringing our GSD.

Group 6 (STU, STL, SSM, SM2) is the largest with 41 entries; Group 2 (ITR, ITS, ITB) next at 28 entries; Group 4 (ITS, IT7, ITC, SSB, EP, FP, GTL) has 27 entries...there's even 22 FVs comin'...

[rthiele]

Thanks Greg!

[Dano77]

Ummm Yeah,about the special guest driver. ummmm The owner of the special guest loaner car was extremly lazy and couldn't get it together for the SHOE to drive. Apparently life got in the way again.


Soooo No special guest,unless he is crewing for tGA.

On another note,the caveman math we use up here looks as though if JB Swan STARTS saturdays race,he is the 2011 IT7 Chumpion.

Dan,the lazy car owner.

[Eric Parham]

I just got tomorrow off to work on the car (the old Scirocco II), and registered it in ITC and STU. Now I just have to drive 8 hrs to get to the car, find the parts, fix it, and drag the thing up to NHMS.

As for the car, it needs a 1.7L 8V head as I think I cracked the SRS prepped head. That (plus my general rustiness) ought to slow it down enough to give Fred the edge ;) Fred, are you here?

If I can't find the right head, though, I only wish I had time and garage space to do an engine swap more suitable for STU. There's an Audi A4 with 1.8T hogging my garage at the moment, but I suppose I could pull that engine out and stuff it into the 'rocco if time permits. I have no idea if I could actually get it running, though. Would a 1.8T powered Scirocco fit the STU class? Greg? They came with basically the same block and displacement, but only NA with an 8V or 16V head. I'll probably just fix the ITC engine with a junkyard head, but it's worth knowing my options :)

[Greg Amy]

Yup, Dan-O's right: the guest driver's here at the house giving em the sob story...

Eric, change your entry to STL, you're legal and we need the numbers.

GA, trying to "learn" people about STL as much as possible, especially small-bore IT cars that have no biz in STU unless they want to run Nationals...or get their ass handed to them by a BMW.

[ner88]

190 cars and still excepting entries! :026:
Registration is open til morning!:D

[Eric Parham]

Eric, change your entry to STL, you're legal and we need the numbers.

GA, trying to "learn" people about STL as much as possible, especially small-bore IT cars that have no biz in STU unless they want to run Nationals...or get their ass handed to them by a BMW.

Thanks Greg, I didn't realize that. Unfortunately, the 1.7 head I installed today barely runs, so I don't think I'm going to make it at all tomorrow (Sat -- actually today already). I've got a line on one more early head. If that pans out, I might still make it for Sunday.

If not, perhaps I'll do a full engine swap to something with more disp and/or valves. I guess now's as good a time as any to re-read those STL/STU rules... Did you see my earlier question:
Would a 1.8T powered Scirocco fit the STU class? The 1.8T is a VW/Audi 1.8L 5V/cyl turbocharged engine.

[Matt93SE]

sorry to hear the car doesn't run well. that's gotta be frustrating to spend all the time getting there and thrashing on the car only to have it half-run...

As for your questions.. turbo engines are not allowed in STL. They are allowed in STU though w/ appropriate inlet restrictor & weight.

For the car itself.. not familiar with your chassis- was that body style produced 1985 or later? earliest model allowed is 85, but if it was an 83/84 and they produced the same thing in 85 then you're OK..

[Eric Parham]

Thanks Matt. I think the chassis's fine for ST, as they were sold through at least '88 in the States.

EDIT: Up and running with a 1.8L 8V. :) Need to change classes from ITC and STU to ITB and STL. Can I do that at the gate tomorrow morning, or is there a better way?

[nlevine]

Results?

[Greg Amy]

Can't give you the details on all the races, but it seemed there was a higher number of flatbeds and crashes this weekend.

Tom Kelly comprehensively compressed the front end of his ITB Golf via the T2 wall; got his bell rung but he's fine (not so the car). An SSM (or SM2?) car did a similar maneuver near a bit upstream - this time the driver's side smacked flat against the wall after a tank slapper - and he was taken away in the ambulance for more checks. Again, last I heard, bell rung/driver fine/not so car. I saw Rob Thiele on the hook/flatbed at least twice, and I got flat-towed home once due to an ignition problem*.

Overall, another great event. Weather was absolutely fantastic, comraderie unsurpassed, and they even had a killer BBQ in a large tent in the campsite area. If you weren't there, you missed a good one!

Oh, as an epilogue, 9/11/11 was spent racing at New Hampshire with ~200 of our "closest friends"; a well-attended autocross was happening in one of the track's parking lots; a loud and obnoxious drifting session was going on in another parking lot, with crap cans tire screeching, smoking, popping/banging, and hammering off the rev limiters; and down the road in yet another NHMS outer parking lot they were having a soapbox derby. Were you at NHMS, you'd not find the automotive/motorsports community sulking around and feeling nostalgic and generally all bad for itself.

As Dick Patullo put it: "America, f**k yeah! I LOVE this country!"

GA

* Car died going through T3 during Saturday AM qually. With Dan's Sheppard's help we nailed it down to "no spark" (even though, somehow Dan managed to shock himself in the process...) Two car parts store trips later - and a new cap, rotor, ignition control module, and coil; probably was the ICM - we had it fired up for Saturday's PM race. Problem was, I didn't know that when you put the ECU into "timing mode" (via the computer), if you do not manually take it out of timing mode before you shut the car off it stays, even when you cycle the key. I ran Saturday's race with only 16 degrees total timing and was getting passed my Miatae at the start....again with Dan's expert help we diagnosed it, fixed it, and I started Sunday's AM race in 21st of ~40...and was P5 by T1... ;)

[rthiele]

I got two results lists in front of me, both Saturday:

Saturday Race Grp 2 ITB,ITR,ITS 1:59pm
Only 2 timed laps due to Rabbit crash in T2 and subsequent black flag and checkered. Lap times not worth a lot since the field was still bunched up and potentially warming up tires. bit of chaos during all course caution: cars going too fast under yellow, saftey car pulling out too late and missing leading cars.

ITB:
1. Nat Wentworth 1:20.838
2. Tim Mullen 1:20.901
3. Derek Lugar 1:20.853

ITS:
1. Robert Blake 1:16.353
2. Glenn Lawton 1:16.913
3. Joe Stadelmann 1:18.821

ITR:
1. Rob Thiele 1:15.467
2. Tyler Munroe (sen) 1:15.317
3. Ann Lamport-Hammitte 1:18.545


Saturday Race Grp 6 SSM,SM2,STU,STL 4:13pm

STU:
1. Tyler P. Munroe 15:570 - great job of Tyler's son winning the race
2. Jay Baier 16:808
3. Rob Thiele (me) 14:815, was in the lead when rear left tire lost air, crawled around 2 laps and was luckily saved due to early checkered (14 laps instead of 15, incident in T2). Hot tire wrapped around fender - Flat bed service no 1 that weekend.

STL
1. Brenton Piekarski 1:17.748
2. Clinton Chichester 1:19.113
3. Greg Amy 1:19.865

SM2:
1. Jimmy Locke 1:18.160
2. Phil Kogan 1:18.780
3. Jeff Collins 1:18.763

SSM
1. Peter Faill 1:18.827
2. Shelby Churchill 1:19.397
3. Quinn Kizis1:19.083

[preparedcivic]

This was the worst fire drill of a weekend ever. But we made it through…..

Thursday afternoon picked up the new RV. 220 miles southwest of home. Rolled in at around 8:30pm. Dealt with work stuff late into the evening and a good part of Friday morning.  Finally got outside to start packing and setting this up around 9am. Get to redoing the weight distributing hitch drawbar and ball mount, and yep, the one I have is too long and is going to drag everywhere. Off to the local trailer dealer, fortunately only 20 minutes away. $155 later I have the hunk of cast iron I need.

More real work interrupts. 

After several other calamities, we get all packed up and hit the road at 3:30pm, an hour after I had wanted to. But we were rolling. To avoid the 100 miles long traffic jam on 287 over the Tappan Zee to 984 to 84 east of Hartford, we took the scenic route north up the Thruway to the Mass Pike. An extra 50 miles but I’m sure the quicker route at that time of day. Got to the track at 9:45pm, just in time to at least get in the gate. Registration and tech painless in the morning, qualifying for the kid goes OK, (1:20.5 or so, good enough for the middle of ITB).

Well, then it was time for the Saturday Group 2 Qualifying race. A slow pace lap and early green made it interesting, and Preparedcivic Jr. said later he was never so glad as to be in 3rd when 2nd was really what was needed. The wrong gear meant he was a dog at the start, and lost 4 or 5 spots, enough to have a great view of Tom Kelly’s incident beginning, which was actually at about the T1-2 midpoint. Upstream in the race, there was also a loop and continue in T3, which may have delayed being able to relay just how bad the T2 situation was on the flag net. The FCY did not come out until almost lap 3, with the pace car rolling out way late, and then during that lap things went BFA. Soon after the race was called. Watching cars go through the incident at speed on lap 2, with just a waving yellow was not a pretty sight; Nat Wentworth managed to fit his Volvo though the gap between the wall and wrecked VW, and Paul Curran looped his car a full 720 going inside.

The group was just hugely lucky there was no significant collateral damage. We just had a nicked RR valve stem from running through the debris that was still holding air but cut about 2/3 through. One of the VW’s from Nova Scotia caught something in the windshield; we were directly behind and this piece of space junk flew over the roof.

Sunday was a somewhat tamer day, at least for Group 2. A few cars came in on the hook in the morning, but nothing terminal. We had to do a quick hub/bearing change right before the real race in the afternoon, as after the morning session the RR developed big play. But no biggy. The kid did good, finishing 6th in B, almost getting himself 5th at the flag, with if I remember right, getting down to a 1:20.2 at some point of the weekend.

It was a great way to spend the 10th anniversary weekend of 9/11. After some traffic on 93 in Concord which we detoured around by going through downtown, the 5:45 ride home wasn’t too bad either.

[tom91ita]

Rob, glad to hear his race went well.

[coutzen]

I had a pretty good start. Then on lap 2 the car just went around on me in turn 2. I recovered from the spin and then had some car to car connect in turn 6. This took a chunk of my from my right front wheel. After 2 more laps the tire went flat and my race was over. I pretty sure the ITB Volvo just did not see me. Here is the video. Don't mind the sound it got out of sync for some reason. It was a fun 1st lap for me at least.

bUQYMRVbpRQ

[lawtonglenn]

.

great three races for both Bob Blake and myself! Thanks everyone
for making the weekend spectacular :happy204:

Here is a link to the race with the best video, race 2/3 Sunday am.
Chasing Tyler Munroe and Rob Thiele is definitely motivational,
and I was able to snap off four consecutive laps in the 14's
including a personal best 1:14.388

The video gets interesting as I catch them in lap 5, and then
after Rob drops out for mechanical problems, I make at least
three plays for race lead....lap 9 is particularly close racing...
it was more exciting and tense in real life than it may appear in video.
My celebratory fist pump in lap 14 was for finally setting a pick
between me and Chris Outzen behind. :)

Once again, if the video seems choppy (due to your internet connection
or graphics card), cycle the HD off

http://vimeo.com/lawtonglenn/videos

Also, watch after the checker, when Eli Garrett (in the yellow scirocco)
does a passable Joey Chitwood impression

Highlights of the other races to follow, from both Bob's and my camera,
including Chris Outzen's spin in 2 directly in front of Bob,
my taking the SUV line in 11 to lap James Carlson's yellow volvo,
and Tyler and I splitting to pass Michelle Yaiser' Black Golf
on the left and right at the entrance to turn 3...I'll bet that
was exciting for Michelle!

Thanks Tyler for some great CLOSE racing!

.

[rthiele]

Glenn, thanks for the video and congrats for an outstanding 1:14.388 - you forgot to mention it is also the new ITS track record - hard to beat, great job!!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Glenn, thanks for the video and congrats for an outstanding 1:14.388 - you forgot to mention it is also the new ITS track record - hard to beat, great job!!

That is a very quick lap!

I was told that with the timing mark in a different spot, this year should have ALL new track records. So Glenn probably lowered his own again!!!

[NATW]

I had a pretty good start. Then on lap 2 the car just went around on me in turn 2. I recovered from the spin and then had some car to car connect in turn 6. This took a chunk of my from my right front wheel. After 2 more laps the tire went flat and my race was over. I pretty sure the ITB Volvo just did not see me. Here is the video. Don't mind the sound it got out of sync for some reason. It was a fun 1st lap for me at least.

bUQYMRVbpRQ

I was in the Volvo and not only did I not see you, but until I saw this video I thought contact was made by Tim Mullen ( he came over after race and apologized for hitting me). He did say there was a BMW inside him, but I never realized the contact that put me in the gravel trap was with you.

Nat Wentworth
ITB Volvo #2

[coutzen]

I was in the Volvo and not only did I not see you, but until I saw this video I thought contact was made by Tim Mullen ( he came over after race and apologized for hitting me). He did say there was a BMW inside him, but I never realized the contact that put me in the gravel trap was with you.

Nat Wentworth
ITB Volvo #2

I was as low as I could get, following the inside curbing. I hope your car didn't get too much damage from the hit.

[lawtonglenn]

That is a very quick lap!



thanks Andy!... I am still pumped from the weekend :D

to answer a few questions I've had:

Hankooks (not Hoosiers) 32psi front/30psi rear cold
right side (outside) tires 3rd heat cycle, left side (inside) 6th heat cycle
stock Mazda S4 computer (no Haltech, no Microtec, no Rtek)
Tokico Illumina (not $$$ Konis) set to 4/5
Hawk Blues Front/ Blacks Rear
post race weight 2704 - 2680 min = 24 lbs over
post race fuel 4 gal (weight set at min when dry: 4gal x 6lb/gal = 24)
manual steering rack (not disabled power rack)
washer bottle installed: YES
.

[StephenB]

I had a great weekend out with the RX8. thanks to a few others I learned a little bit about droop and solved that wheel spin issue! I now need to read up on how to make the rear end stick to the ground. It feels like its on ice which is actually probably a good thing as I learn Rear wheel drive Vs. Front wheel drive. Considering this was only my 2nd weekend with the car I am very pleased with getting into the 16's. I am still having an issue with fuel pressure but I think Dave Maynard may have helped us figure that issue out by explaining the vent system on the tank. I hope he is right and we will easily have that fixed!

Worst part of my "transition" to the new car is that I actually have to slow down for turn 1 and 2. In the Audi I barely lifted and could stay around 95 or so through the turn. Now with the need to brake I was slowing down to 88 or so and getting passed by my old ITB buddies! ARRRGGG... By the end of the weekend I was going about 93ish and starting to feel more and more comfortable with the car.

Most exciting part of the weekend was the race sunday afternoon when I pulled up almost to first overall on the start. This car does have some great power! But I quickly fell back as I hit the brakes and chickened out going into turn 1...

I sadly may be done for the year with the RX8($$$). But next year I hope to have a real swaybar in it which should help handling a lot. (Currently I have stock front and rear bars) I will also feel way more comfortable and ready to go fast!

Attached is a short video of me bumping Michelle Yaiser as she slowed down more than I expected. I felt really bad since she was renting the car and will probably have a bill. I also felt bad after my wife said my cracked bumper cover is staying cracked... :( On the very next lap I have an exciting spin coming out of 3 that allowed Ann Hammitte to pass and take the 3rd position away from me :( I came so close to making that top 3 list by Rob above!
Enjoy...
http://youtu.be/wBJ19GwAAL4

[JLawton]

I was in the Volvo and not only did I not see you, but until I saw this video I thought contact was made by Tim Mullen ( he came over after race and apologized for hitting me). He did say there was a BMW inside him, but I never realized the contact that put me in the gravel trap was with you.

Nat Wentworth
ITB Volvo #2

Nat, is that your form of an apology?? LOL Cause it was all you buddy!! You at least owe him a beer for hitting him so hard.

[Russ Jones]

Glenn Lawton: Thanks for always posting your in car videos. For us retiree's it's fun to watch, with the hopes one day the kids college funds will be full, the mortgage paid off and the wife retires from Show Jumping - I'll get to drive a race car again.

Russ Jones

[coutzen]

.
My celebratory fist pump in lap 14 was for finally setting a pick
between me and Chris Outzen behind. :)

It was a fun race. Our cars are pretty close - we just make time in different areas of the track. Again I'm sorry for the "love-tap" coming out of turn 3 on lap two. Once I learn how drive I'll try to put up a better fight for you.

[NATW]

Nat, is that your form of an apology?? LOL Cause it was all you buddy!! You at least owe him a beer for hitting him so hard.


No it was not an apology, based on this video perhaps there should have been an apology. If I could figure out how to post some of my video it may look different. I am not blaming him for incident I think it was racing but I was ahead of him going into turn, got passed by green VW that was ahead of him and went through the turn on normal exit leaving room for VW ( looks like I'm coming down on him in video) when contact occurred. I was under assumption that the passing car has an obligation to make a safe pass also.
Bottom line was I left the track thinking it was Tim Mullen that had contact with me because he did come over to discuss and I had no idea the BMW was involved at all. I don't feel blameless but I'm not sure it was all my fault either.

Nat

[Andy Bettencourt]

BMW had made his pass, was at the apex and Volvo didn't see him. He can occupy that space all day long. Tough call on 'blame' as the Volvo was concentrating on the VW that had just passed him and not on the other cars. Remember when you pass a faster car that has spun, that car will be coming through.

Volvo should have know he COULD be there, BMW should have realized that is a tough sight line...

[raffaelli]

Thanks for posting these kinds of videos and comments. I learn alot from them.

[TimM ITB]

Hey all;

IMHO, here's the deal:

Nat was on the outside of me going down into the bowl T6, about 3/4 car length ahead of me. BMW came down fast on MY inside going down the hill into T6. Now we are three wide going into T6. Prior to the BMW occupying the furtherest inside space on the track in T6, I was going to do an "inside out" move on Nat......that is what I was thinking as I was barrelling down into T6, but as the BMW came inside of me, I could NOT move any further inside or I would have taken him out. I put on hard braking hoping that Nat would stay on the outside of the track and we would all "sort it out" as we three-wide went up into T7 and T8. But, after talking with Nat, he only saw the BMW in his mirror, but not me, tucked up next to him about at his rear driver side door. He turned in, I was on the brakes, but nudged him around his driver's rear wheel, which turned the nose of his car furhter "in" and then, IMHO, the BMW couldln't slow enough going inside into T6 and came out "high" .....hitting Nat as you see in the video.
I don't really put blame on anyone in this instance. I felt badly that it all ended up the way that it did, but???? I talked to Nat after the race, which I think is the least that we can do in a racing incident like this.
Anyway, I don't have any answers to a situation like this one - only the insight to suggest that it's always good to see the folks involved afterwards to clear the air if at all possible.
later,
Tim M

[lawtonglenn]

Glenn Lawton: Thanks for always posting your in car videos. For us retiree's it's fun to watch, with the hopes one day the kids college funds will be full, the mortgage paid off and the wife retires from Show Jumping - I'll get to drive a race car again.

Russ Jones


:) .... ahhh it's the Show Jumping!!.... I am lucky that Jacqui
only takes her horses trail riding..... show jumping is $$$$$$$$!

I hope to see you on track again soon!

[lawtonglenn]

It was a fun race. Our cars are pretty close - we just make time in different areas of the track. Again I'm sorry for the "love-tap" coming out of turn 3 on lap two. Once I learn how drive I'll try to put up a better fight for you.

:)

yes, fun indeed!.... no prob on the love tap.....it just
surprised the hell out of me at the time!

:)

[Andy Bettencourt]

But, after talking with Nat, he only saw the BMW in his mirror, but not me, tucked up next to him about at his rear driver side door. He turned in, I was on the brakes, but nudged him around his driver's rear wheel, which turned the nose of his car furhter "in" and then, IMHO, the BMW couldln't slow enough going inside into T6 and came out "high" .....hitting Nat as you see in the video.

Tim M


Tim, that isn't what I see in the video at all. You may have nudged Nat that changed his direction a bit but I would hardly call this the 'BMW hitting Nat'. He was at the curb when he got clobbered!

Either way, lots of cars in there at weird angles, going for an apex that is on the back side of the turn. Recipe for contact as all.

[JLawton]

Don't get me wrong Nat. I fully understand how it happened and it wasn't the usual "not paying attention". The BMW was hidden behind Tim, and you saw Tim back out so you figured it was clear. Like I said, a strange circumstance but the BMW had made the pass. If he's side by side, he's got the corner.

Tim, it looks to me like the BMW was on the inside curbing when he got hit. Not sure I see your perspective of him tracking out and hitting Nat.

But I'm only looking at one video................. but that's what it seems to be showing to me as an arm chair quarterback. :shrug:

[Andy Bettencourt]

But I'm only looking at one video................. but that's what it seems to be showing to me as an arm chair quarterback. :shrug:

I was just thinking that another video would show more!!!

[StephenB]

I had a pretty good start. Then on lap 2 the car just went around on me in turn 2. I recovered from the spin and then had some car to car connect in turn 6. This took a chunk of my from my right front wheel. After 2 more laps the tire went flat and my race was over. I pretty sure the ITB Volvo just did not see me. Here is the video. Don't mind the sound it got out of sync for some reason. It was a fun 1st lap for me at least.



I would love to see the video going into turn 3 Saturday! That must have been a "hold your breath moment"!

Stephen

[Harvey]

It appears to me to be a prime example of someone being a little over zealous trying to make up for a mistake and getting in the middle of another classes race at the wrong spot.

[StephenB]

Here is a link from my point of view on the start. Almost into first overall but then WAY to chicken to stay 3 wide up on the outside.... OK to chicken to go that fast anyway :) I then tried the over/under move in turn 6 on Ann but she wasn't having any of that! Great racing with her!

Stephen


http://youtu.be/G7F9XZcwKpQ

[lateapex911]

It appears to me to be a prime example of someone being a little over zealous trying to make up for a mistake and getting in the middle of another classes race at the wrong spot.

I'll ask a question for Greg Amy, LOL. (And me, playing devils advocate)

So what is he supposed to do? he's way faster, was completely alongside, and was way on the curb, and appeared to not be sliding.
A pass can't get much more 'complete'.
So, yea, I get that sometimes you have to assume the other guy sees, or doesn't see you. I get that. pick your spots. But, when you're going for an overall trophy, and your laps are very similar to the leaders, you can't hang back and see how it pans out if you are going to challenge for a position.

Nat's a good driver, has a good reputation, has no history of not seeing traffic, blocking or any other hooligans. If it were me, from what I see in that video, I don't see any big evidence that would make me do different that what the BMW did.
Also, if the BMW doesn't go for that move, with a flock of other cars on the outside, where do you draw the line?? He was completely alongside, maybe even ahead at the point of contact.

Early laps, lots of two and three wide, guys sorting it out. Gotta have your wits about you and expect the unusual, especially with an ITR car that just spun and in the middle of an ITB flock.

I have a hard time placing any blame on the BMW.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Volvo guys sticking together! LOL

I probably would have been exactly where that BMW was if I was in the same position, but I would have thought that there was a real possibility that the Vulva was not focusing on a faster car on the inside. Not sure I see anything he (BMW) did wrong but more vids would be cool.

[lateapex911]

Volvo guys sticking together! LOL

.

haha

[Harvey]

Yeah well I most likely would have done the same as well just saying.

[JLawton]

My first post about it was just to bust Nat's ass. My second was just explaining my position. Nat's an excellent driver and I can fully understand he couldn't/didn't see the BMW. The BMW was probably outside of Nat's mirrors and if Nat has any sort of HANs device probably couldn't turn his head enough to look back that far. So yes, I would chalk it up as a racing incident........... But not one without a little blame. As i said above, a strange situation.

Nat, Tim, post up those videos!! :eclipsee_steering:

[RSTPerformance]

I should have a video from the second row of three wide cars (right behind Nat & Tim) The lap prior the exact same thing happened to me and I went off driver right of turn 6 but was able to power through the gravel. You just can't go three wide in that turn :). I will post more later when I get a chance to see my video and type on somethng other than my phone!!!

Raymond

[jimalley]

While we are looking for videos to post, does anyone have any of the first lap at turn 3 in the ITA race?

[TimM ITB]

OOPS. Did not mean to assign blame to the BMW! My comments only meant to shed light on the "3 cars in a 2 car space" situation! If I was in the ITR BMW I would have probably trying the same pass.......if I was Nat I would have been turning in not knowing that I was on his rear quarter......I was trying not to be where I was in the "sandwich"...........a true racing incident in my opinion.

[StephenB]

I should have a video from the second row of three wide cars (right behind Nat & Tim) The lap prior the exact same thing happened to me and I went off driver right of turn 6 but was able to power through the gravel. You just can't go three wide in that turn :). I will post more later when I get a chance to see my video and type on somethng other than my phone!!!

Raymond

Here you go Raymond... Lookes like you had a great race! This is a GREAT couple of laps that looked like a lot of fun. I can't wait to run the NARRC-offs in the coupe :)

Stephen

http://youtu.be/4ZNINVhd8JY

[JLawton]

Arm chair quarterback, video II

From Raymond's video it looks like when Nat hooked Tim's nose (or Tim jammed his nose into Nat rear quarter :D ) it pushed Nat into the BMW......... So yes, a second video shows a little more perspective....... It was Tim's fault!!!! :p

[NATW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkKcHlxMgGU

I think I just posted my view of the race, (took a while to find my VHS to internet adapter). I think after reading above posts that Tim's description is probably pretty close. This video shows everything I remember from the race (some of us cottonheads don't have such great short term recall). As I said before I never saw the BMW even after contact.

Nat Wentworth
ITB Volvo

[lawtonglenn]

.

well that absolutely clears it up, you were in full opposite
lock trying to correct for the pick maneuver Tim dealt you!
You had been spun; you didn't drive into anyone :(
and I can also see why you never ever saw Outsen!

also, I have a new appreciation for how fast you manage to
get that rolling brick around the track Nat!.... what is the steering
ratio on that? it looks like you have 100 turns lock to lock!

also, sounds like you need a gear between 2nd and 3rd!

.

[benspeed]

Talk about a long shift throw on the Vulva!

[rthiele]

Results are available now: http://www.nescca.com/nescca%5Fmain/clubrace.html#results

[coutzen]

First off let me apologize to Nat for talking to him after the race. I went to tech after the race to look for you but never found you. At the next event I will definitely find you and we can talk about this. Second I do not place blame on Nat or Tim or anyone for the contact. I spun in turn 2 and put myself in the situation. From all the videos it is clear that Nat was correcting trying not to spin when the contact happened. Had he seen me I don't think he could have done anything differently to miss me. When I came into turn 6 I saw the inside open and went for it. I tried to controlled my speed so that I would not track out into the cars outside of me. Anyway these things happen on to the next race.

[lateapex911]

Talk about a long shift throw on the Vulva!

I just had to quote that, LOL. Not sure I need to even make a comment...

[Eric Parham]

BMW had made his pass, was at the apex and Volvo didn't see him.

Not so from my full-screen viewing of the only video posted here. The BMW *may* have had the VW in the braking zone before turn-in, but not the Volvo by a long shot. The Volvo had the corner (see him turning in while still at least a full car length in front of the BMW), and probably would have crossed the apex before the BMW even got there had it not been for the VW tagging the Volvo first (apparently because the BMW took the VW's line away). Even at the apex, the BMW was not yet even with the Volvo and only instantaneously at the point where one could be expected to see him (i.e., nose at driver's door). The BMW should have backed out of it -- it was an ill-advised pass to begin with. I hope he learned or will learn from the experience. Telling him that what he did was okay is counter-productive.

Sometimes those in a faster class improperly expect the leaders in a slower class to make room for them no matter what. A pass of a hotly contested battle in a slower class can be made with the assumption that the slower class car will make extra accomodation only where such giving will not hurt the slower class car's race with others in its class. Moreover, if only out of etiquette, such a pass should not be attempted where it slows others down unnecessarily. Here, attempting to pass the ITB leader in an ITR car at the apex of 6 was simply ill-advised, and wedging between the first and second cars in that slower class was poor etiquette by any standard. The pass of both could have easily waited until the hill (judging from the apparent power advantage of the BMW), which probably would have been faster for *all*. IMHO, the BMW driver owes an apology to the Volvo driver for the contact.

[lateapex911]

I ALMOST posted that it seemed like this would be the first incident where we discussed the fault etc and all agreed on in the end....

-but I knew better, LOL

[Andy Bettencourt]

The perspective matters. For the most part, I have been in the 'faster' class in run groups. We all look at it from where we would typically be.

In Nat's video, I can see the BMW making the pass and coming inside. Is it unreasonable to think that (if Tim hadn't clipped him) that he would have left some racing room (he might have been seeing as how there was a 3rd car in there)?

And to add, when Nat sees the BMWin T-1/T-2, he probably has no idea he spun because he is rolling pit-out. Noticing an ITR car there would have me extra focused on the mirrors in the short term.

But like Lawton said, it's all arm-chair at this point knowing Tim bumped Nat. God, video is cool.

[FastM3]

On the BMW vs the "Rolling White Shed"....

Not upset with anyone as I have been on both sides of this before but here are my thoughts.

1 There is no way that Nat could see the BMW from where he was on the track. His view was blocked by the VW and also by the angle and side distance of the BMW.

2 Any car that is riding the rim (Nat) with a car underneath (Mullen) should ' Hold there line' and not aim for the apex curb. Mullen should have been left some room as Nat (by his own thoughts) could not see who was alongside him. Meaning if he could not see who was there some room should have been left. We all need racing room. Please!

3 From the BMW perspective. There is some responsibility (or self preservation aspect) here. When approaching slower cars racing each other (especially one that is 2 lanes over from where you are ( the White Shed)) anticipate that the other car cannot see you. A little holding back at that point to "see" what the traffic was going to do would be better racecraft.

4 All that said...OK I have also done this crap (hit and been hit) as well so it is easy for me to blab about it. I am trying to let the paint be shiny for longer periods of time.

Phil # 38 ITA at Cheap Date