.40 over pistons for 1.8L

[S2_ITBVW]

Hello, everyone! Where do you all recommend I purchase pistons for my ITB engine build? I'm having some difficulty sourcing these. I would also be interested in hearing your recommendations about the type of piston to use.

As always, thanks!

[T Broring]

Dave, for the VWs it was always easy to get German made pistons through a European part supplier and know you would be getting a good part. It seems some of the older pistons are being dropped from stock in many places. Summit Racing had some pistons that do not appear in their standard catalog if you search by vehicle. The reason I did not try these last time I was shopping was the listings were not 100% clear as to what compression/engine code each was for. A call to them may help clarify. Techtonics Tuning usually lists what you are looking for but they are not cheap.

[S2_ITBVW]

Tom, thanks a bunch. I had not checked Summit. I am in a dialogue with Techtonics. They may end up cutting down another piston to create the piston I need with the right compression. I see that Wiseco has a .40 over piston at 11.5:1. I assume these could be cut down . . . Right?

I hope sourcing this important element does not become a problem.

[evanwebb]

Finding pistons for older VWs is already a problem, that's why you are considering using an illegal piston (a cut-down Wiseco would not be legal unless it is identical to the stock piston, which I'm 99% sure it wouldn't be.)

[Bill Miller]

Check w/ our gracious forum host, he may be able to help. www.bildon.com:023:

[S2_ITBVW]

Sigh. Well, I read the GCR again and am inclined to agree that the Wiseco piston's probably do NOT match closely enough to be legal. I was focused on making sure that the compression was legal and did not realize that the pistons had to match that closely. Dangit. I'm stuck for the moment. The fellow building the engine sent an email to Bildon several days ago. I sent an email to Bildon yesterday. We haven't had a response. I have called Techtonics and they don't have any stock pistons either. Techtonics suggested cutting down a VR6 piston. I now suspect that this is illegal too.

Is there a readily available LEGAL piston that can be modified to produce the proper compression? Any other ideas/suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks for the help!

[Flyinglizard]

Boring the VW block has very little return. 040 over is hard to find, look for 020 or 030 and you may find something.
Turning the dish into the 16v piston will not work.
You can only take off about 040 (1mm) off of the top , the crown gets thin.

[evanwebb]

How about trying a dealer?

[Dave Zaslow]

Go here and try to find the part you need:

http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/mahle/query/vehicle/byParams?cocoon-xmlform-view=VehicleParamsCriteria&%2Fcriteria%2Fmanufacturer%2Fvalue=VOLKSWAGEN&%2Fcriteria%2FproductionPeriod%2FminMonth=&%2Fcriteria%2FproductionPeriod%2FminYear=&%2Fcriteria%2Fname%2Fvalue=golf&%2Fcriteria%2FproductionPeriod%2FmaxMonth=&%2Fcriteria%2FproductionPeriod%2FmaxYear=&%2Fcriteria%2Ftype%2Fvalue=&cocoon-action-886a5a465b3f56283f62427b6256541332366e4e%3AVehicle ParamsCriteria%3AqueryExec=Start+Search

Then find a Mahle dealer to see if they can source here or abroad.

http://www.pweuroparts.co.uk/volkswagen-parts.html

DZ

[Lael Cleland]

.50mm over are much easier to find than 1.0mm... VW blocks have so much nickel they dont taper much... I used stock new Kolbenshmidits pistons in my engine.$385 set. We have found .020 or .50mm pistons on e-bay.. But the hunt needs to start 6 months before ya build the engine..

There out there, find some one with an account at World Pac or IMC.. They supply the parts stores & German repair shops..

[shwah]

I bought .020 over for my build, but the block I was using needed .040. It was hard to find, but I ended up getting them from Bildon, but they did not appear to be easy for them to get.. It is completely legal to have Weisco or another aftermarket source make forged dimensional duplicates to VW pistons, and entirely possible that someone else has already done this, so they have the design in hand already. I would call around to aftermarket piston manufacturers.

[S2_ITBVW]

Is anyone familiar with this piston?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-9078-1-0MM/

I spoke with the tech line for Keith Black and they indicated that this was an OEM replacement cast piston. So I think the specs are right from a "legality" standpoint. However, the tech folks could not provide the exact compression ratio, only that it would produce the "stock" compression for the engine.

This is the application information:

Make VOLKSWAGEN
Engine Type L4
Liter 1.8
CC 1780
Engine Size 1.8L/1780cc
Beginning Year 1983
Ending Year 1987
Engine Family Volkswagen 4-cylinder
Application Notes Replacement for original equipment numbers 026107103Q or 027107103O.

Does this look right?

As always, thanks for your help.

[Flyinglizard]

The specs note the dish as .360 deep. I have a pile of pistons. I check the p[istons with pennies in the dish. 3 pennies are 10/1, 5 pennies are 8.5 to one.
It sounds strange but is a good visual.. Measure 3 pennies.
I think that .360 is 8/1 dish.

[Ralf]

Make sure to let us know what you find out about the compression. That price is a steal since it says its a set of four.

[T Broring]

I've been trying to help Dave off line in his search. I have seen three different stock pistons as far as the recess in the top that determines compression. Unfortunately the ones I know to be 10:1 are inside my motor so I cannot measure. These seem to have the most shallow indent on the top. I also have a set of new Mahle pistons that have the deep indent but the diameter of the indent is less than on the 8.5:1 stocks I took out. I think I will have to cc all the different indents in the off season. It is a shame that we never had to do all this work in the past as ordering them was easy. The European manufacturers will sometimes make a batch if there is demand.

[S2_ITBVW]

Thanks, everyone.

Mike, I do not have a stack of pistons to measure. If you have a moment could you check the diameter of the dish on the 8.5:1 and 10:1 pistons. I suspect that the Keith Black pistons are 8.5:1. The depth of the dish on all the KB pistons is over "6 pennies" so I doubt it is going to be 10:1. Thanks very, very much for your help!

I have contacted every domestic resource I can find, including folks I found on eBay. I have talked to several piston manufactures and they all say that the .40 over pistons are not available and that no one wants to pay for a production run because the demand is just not high enough to justify it.

:shrug:

I called Mahle to talk to them about maufacturing the .40 over pistons. The motorsports folks told to me check one last time with the Mahle OEM folks. The Mahle OEM folks told me to talk with the Mahle Europe folks. I talked to the Mahle Europe folks (AmBoss??) and they have sent an inquiry to Europe to find out if there are any .40 pistons laying in warehouse in Germany somewhere.

I'll let you know if they find anything. We are "officially" looking in Europe now.

[Flyinglizard]

The penny sizing is just because of trying to buy pistons online and over the phone before. Most parts salesmen dont have a vernier in their pocket , but may have 4 pennies..
Place 4 pennies on the piston. Drag a ruler across the pennies. If one penny is scrapped off , youhave 10/1 pistons, . If the ruler clears the 4 pennies, you have 8.5/1.
The measured dish is about .182 for the 10/1
The dish is about .348 for the 8/1.
The OD size is very close to the same.
Now, if the car is a MK 2, the 8/1 engine came in the car.
The max compression is 10.5 to 1. Those pistons are legal. The min head thicness is maybe 132.5 mm?
Deck the block about 032. The Felpro gasket is 054 tight,
You should come up with about 10/1. maybe a little under..
Jake, help me out here...
MM

[S2_ITBVW]

The Mahle Europe folks (AmBoss) have located four .40 over cast OEM pistons in the United States and over 100 of the same pistons in Europe. They quoted me a price of $55 per piston. They are emailing me a link to the specs tomorrow. I'll post the link as soon as I get it. They do sell to the public and I will provide the contact information as soon as I confirm that this is what we are all looking for.

Cross your fingers. Thanks for the help.

[S2_ITBVW]

OK, here is the link to the piston that Mahle has available. It is a .40 over OEM piston, but I am not sure of the compression. Please take a look and share your thoughts . . .

http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/mahle/query/product/byArticleNum?cocoon-action-0f3831593c5000383c415a75781a332c4d70563d:queryProd uctResultView:queryRelatedEngines&%2Fresult%2Fselector%2FnodePath=%2F89996#spa-1263393457

Can anyone read German?

Thanks!

Dave

[Bill Miller]

I have a friend that regularly brings containers of stuff over from Europe (mostly VW stuff). If you can't source them locally, lmk and I'll see if he can get some for you.

[mossaidis]

Wiseco, CP, JE, etc will all make legal IT forged pistons for you, albeit at the custom piston price of ~$550-$650/set. Just need to send them the specs or find a VW race shop that has done it before and ordering will be snap.

[Flyinglizard]

I have a seto f the 8.5 pistons coming. I think that I can get the compression back up to about 9.8 to one, with .026 off the block and the head @ 132.5mm,and a 054 head gasket. I will CC the setup and let everyone know. Is it IT legal?, maybe.
Not as fast as the 11/1 cars running, but it may run on pump gas.

The Chumpcar thing is getting so big that I need more cars. The engine parts are very scarce for the Mk 1 and Mk 2 VW now. Try to buy a 1.6 block??
Try to buy any 20 yr old engines or parts..

[S2_ITBVW]

Everyone, I think these pistons are exactly what everyone is looking for. However, they could dry-up at any moment. None of these pistons exist in the U.S. (I bought the last 4) and only 100 or so exist in Europe. But, the AmBoss guys will get them for you from Europe as long as they exist. Here is the information that you need to order them:

Mahle Piston Number: 0347513
.40 over, 10:1 Cast pistons
Distributed by AmBoss: (203) 380-2466
Talk to Tristan or Brian

The pistons are $55 dollars each. Mike, these are "3 penny" pistons.

I have included some pictures . . . Good Luck!

[Bill Miller]

I have a seto f the 8.5 pistons coming. I think that I can get the compression back up to about 9.8 to one, with .026 off the block and the head @ 132.5mm,and a 054 head gasket. I will CC the setup and let everyone know. Is it IT legal?, maybe.
Not as fast as the 11/1 cars running, but it may run on pump gas.

The Chumpcar thing is getting so big that I need more cars. The engine parts are very scarce for the Mk 1 and Mk 2 VW now. Try to buy a 1.6 block??
Try to buy any 20 yr old engines or parts..


Yep, I scrapped 4 complete 1.6 FI motors like 3 years ago. Bought them to have as spares for the HP car, and they were just taking up space.

[Yingchun]

Summit Racing had some pistons that do not appear in their standard catalog if you search by vehicle. The reason I did not try these last time I was shopping was the listings were not 100% clear as to what compression/engine code each was for. A call to them may help clarify. Techtonics Tuning usually lists what you are looking for but they are not cheap.

[Flyinglizard]

Pistons came. 8.5 to one. "Silvolite" made in MX. no rings.
Deck the block 032, deck the head to 132mm. Should hit right about 10/1 done.
MM

[Flyinglizard]

"Topline Auto" makes pistons for VW and lots of others. It so happens that I am 1 mile form there huge shop. I am now a dealer.
I will have a price on the 10/1 pistons real soon. MM

[Eric Parham]

I've been trying to help Dave off line in his search. I have seen three different stock pistons as far as the recess in the top that determines compression. Unfortunately the ones I know to be 10:1 are inside my motor so I cannot measure. These seem to have the most shallow indent on the top. I also have a set of new Mahle pistons that have the deep indent but the diameter of the indent is less than on the 8.5:1 stocks I took out. I think I will have to cc all the different indents in the off season. It is a shame that we never had to do all this work in the past as ordering them was easy. The European manufacturers will sometimes make a batch if there is demand.

The 10:1 CR 8V pistons have the same diameter dish as the 8.5:1, just shallower. The ones with the smaller diameter but deeper dish are probably 8:1 Corrado G60 pistons (which take 136 mm instead of 144 rods, IIRC).

[BlackVR6GTI]

I sent you an email regarding some pistons factory overbore pistons that I have BNIB for a build that changed directions. let me know if you're interested and we can work something out.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0614.jpg
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0613.jpg
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0612.jpg

[Flyinglizard]

http://gallery.oracool.net/v/album82/protech/autox/Ignition_+510+001.jpg.html
Look at the penny pic, do the same and repost the pics please. TIA, MM

[BlackVR6GTI]

Hey there - check out the following and let me know if you might be interested. These are sitting on a shelf in my garage as I went a different direction on the project I was working on.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0612.jpg?t=1317908169

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0613.jpg?t=1317908191

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/dkosse/IMG_0614.jpg?t=1317908208

[Flyinglizard]

Those look like 8.5 to 1.

[Sandro]

BlackVR6GTI whats the part number on the box of those pistons?

[BlackVR6GTI]

I'll check the box for a part number when I get home. They are in fact 8.5:1 pistons though - that much I know.

As an aside I'm running almost 11:1 on 93octane pump gas without issue...