HD VW axles

[Flyinglizard]

I am getting into building race axles for the MK 1 , 2,and 3.
They will have 4130 cages and special balls. They should last a lot longer than the hard chrome cages.esp with the welded diffs.
Price should be around 125$.
Please email me if interested. MM

[Sandro]

Not going to play IT police, but I think we all know the answer to that.

$125, what joints are you starting with? Two Lobro joints are more than that alone.

[Flyinglizard]

I am trying to buy the 4130 cages and 002 undersize balls. I have found a source. just need all of the design numbers and get an order going.
I have lots of 8V/16V mk 1 and 2 parts. I wiil do them first. After I get these going I will look for VR 6 cores to do. It looks like some guys will buy them.
The specs will be ; 4130 cages, new balls, new boots, new Synthetic grease. The outer and inner drivers ,are good used, at this point. I hope to have them done for about 125$.
The new Lobro CV are hardened/chrome. They break due to the harmonics, and the snug fitment. The 4130 should not shatter, just wear out at around 20,000 miles.
As far as the rules are concerned; stock appearing replacement parts, in the same size and weight as the OE should be good. Maybe not.
MM

[Andy Bettencourt]

IAs far as the rules are concerned; stock appearing replacement parts, in the same size and weight as the OE should be good. Maybe not.
MM

????

Build what you want, but lets not represent as IT legal.

[Flyinglizard]

So, cheap "Discount auto parts"' axles are legal because we dont know what their specs are?
Do you think that all of the winning cars have stock, OE German axles in them?
Any FWD cars with camber plates, will have axles that are too long, when the struts are tipped in for camber. Is cutting off the axles ends to allow for a legal mod, a legal mod?
I propose that any front running IT car with camber plates has "massaged" axles.
Or ,Is it a fact of life that we just dont want to talk about?
The more racers that finish the race, the more often that they race. Good for all.

Maybe the rule needs to be addressed to match reality,
"Axles shall be funtionally the same as OE and within 5% weight and lenght." " These axles shall fix the same way as OE,on both ends."
Andy , can you handle that? TIA,. .MM

[shwah]

The IT issue is that .002 smaller CV balls are not 'stock replacement' parts.

Same deal as the shorter driveshaft solution that some use on these cars.

I have not ever broken a CV (knock on wood), nor have many other guys I race with that run lockers. The only time they break for us, is if someone tries to turn too sharp when backing up.

[Knestis]

... I propose that any front running IT car with camber plates has "massaged" axles.
Or ,Is it a fact of life that we just dont want to talk about? ...

You can propose that but it doesn't make it true. We had a rash of CV joint failures - like three in a 2-month period - but we chocked it up to either a bad batch of parts or boots getting damaged first. (These were in enduro stints.) We've since gone to NEO grease and high quality boots.

We're confident enough with our current situation that we've gone to a spool this year.

K

[lateapex911]

Maybe I should get a special bearing for my live axle rear end, you know, so I can get some camber in there. It's not fair that others can get more rear camber than I can. If I make special bearings, and use diffent materials, I can solve my issues AND get the camber I so richly deserve.

[shwah]

I propose that any front running IT car with camber plates has "massaged" axles.
Or ,Is it a fact of life that we just dont want to talk about?


No they don't. And they don't need to.

There is no fact of life in IT that justifies prepping outside the rules.

[Sandro]

I run camber plates, and only use OEM Lobro/GKN Joints.

Every since I stopped running, reman axles, I have not had axle problems.

If you want to legally solve the problem, run offset bushings.


Mike, I know you and your book are all about budget racing, but some parts you just have to spend the extra money on. Such as the CV's, auto part store reman axles are a joke, I wouldn't even put them on a daily driver, beater car. Also you will never find me putting generic brand grease in my joints, even Mobil 1 doesn't cut it, it just turns to water, I strictly use SWPECO.

Same goes for the boots, cheap boots just become hard and then crack.

[JLawton]

Warts and all.................


"everyone else is doing it" really isn't a good argument. Personally, I don't give a crap. If you want to run illegal stuff, fine...... how ever you want to justify it........

I ran a GTi for a couple of years......with camber plates.......and legal axles......... and had no problems.....

[Lael Cleland]

I make my guys watch E-bay for NOS stuff... I Like Old Lobo, GNK is ok so far.. I had a new Meyle last one race... We use Red Line CV2... I also have a year of track days and 10+ races on my current left CV, The right side lasts forever on our tracks...

[Flyinglizard]

I have orders for 8 sets.
FWIW, the rebuilt axles are often not OE sizes, not OE specs in any way. Neither are water pumps, pistons, rod bearings. Are they effectively the same? yes.
The Lobro is GKN. watch where they are made..
I always use the best stuff where it matters. The Mobil one synthetic grease and or sweptco is the best . That is all that I use. . Using camber plates for all of the camber will bottom out the stoc k axles. The offset bushing will move the axles about 1/4 in and may be enough.
Does the IT rule require that any replace ment parts are the same sizes as OE?? yes, Are they ? no.
Do all of you VW racers have the 5# subframe weight on the car?
Jake, thanks for your helpful input.
MM

[shwah]

Do all of you VW racers have the 5# subframe weight on the car?

You mean the one that was added to the latter half of the A2 production cars? No. The spec lined includes years of cars that do not have the resonant frequency band aid weight, so neither does my race car.

[lateapex911]

So, Micheal, answer me this: the extra tabs I welded onto my water pump are OK? The car cavitates badly at high revs and overheats, the tabs solve that. I've decided that I am a replacement part manufacturer.

[Flyinglizard]

That is a good case, Jake. There are many water pump specs, most are not OE spec. Some are plastic , some are stamped, etc. Just like half of the replacement parts.
Wheel bearings, tie rod ends, rack boots, wheel cylinders, . None of the replace ment stuff would pass the OE spec test.
Maybe it is time that the IT rules reflect the actual world.
MM

[JLawton]

Mike,
No one is arguing that it's minor and helps keep expenses down and probably would never get protested. The issue is you are standing on a soap box saying "it's OK for me to do this because everyone else is doing it". It's like the guys who use the safety card for illegal modifications. If you're going to do it, don't advertise it.

[Lael Cleland]

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/images/M/1473.JPGI want these! Totally not legal, but cool!

[lateapex911]

MM, you can sugar coat it and justify it all you want, but the bottom line is that you are custom making a part with with non stock components and dimensions, and the express intent of giving yourself more performance than you can get otherwise.

You can tell me that other replacement parts don't exactly match the original part all you want, but the bottom line is those parts would fail a protest as well.

You can tell me that it's harmless, and that the rules suck and need to be changed. Actually, you have told me that*.

And have told me that it's not fair, because you're getting a worse shake than other cars.

Those are all rationalizations, I'm sorry to say, to cheat.

You said my example didn't help. Of course it didn't...it was another example of an illegal part.

The bottom line here is you are drawing a line in the sand where YOU want to. Others in this thread have suggested methods for you to have your cake and eat it too...legally. But you're not interested.
I'm sorry to say it, but from a outsiders point of view, it calls to question the overall legality of your car. Did you decide to just put a cam in instead of the traditional approach to save yourself money and time, bearing in (your) mind that replacement cams aren't exactly the same as a stock cam in some cases? Or pistons? etc etc.

Sorry if you think I'm being rude, but ......

* If you think that, instead of just ignoring them, act as an agent to change and propose a solution to the area you find problematical.

[shwah]

Jake - there are a lot more racing applications for VW cars than IT. Don't assume that any sold sets will be here. It is more likely to chump, lemons or another endurance series IMO.

[lateapex911]

Good points Chris. My reaction was based on the implied (in my mind, I guess) justification aspect.
To be fair, I'll edit that part out.

[Flyinglizard]

Some rules need to change to match reality. (IMHO)
Yes, we race VWs at 4-5 venues.
Our soon to race Rocco will have old worn out Lobro joints. It has the offset lower solid bushings, no camber plates tops, and at least two log books now.
I have taken apart many VW race cars from the Florida area. None have been legal; Re comnpression, cam, flywheel, These parts go on the Chumpcar.
The same person that built those cars bitched about my cam, I took out the 100$ bill and said to pull both cams. Shut him up , my cam was legal,stock. ( control pressure is way low on this car) and it rumps until it warms up well.

[Knestis]

...I have taken apart many VW race cars from the Florida area. None have been legal; Re comnpression, cam, flywheel

That's not a rules problem. That's a culture and compliance problem. Full credit to you for forcing the issue!

K

[Flyinglizard]

I now have axles for sale. All are 100mm drivers, 90mm outers, All have 4130 inner cages; (no where is the spec of the OE cage).
IT legal are 400$ per set,( stock ball size)
Non anal, endurance axles are 350$ per set, on your cores.( loose fit cages/balls/ on both ends.
FWIW, many replacement axle cores have had many different ball sizes. Only The VW Oe axles( 20yrs old by now) may have the true size balls.
Purchase one set and also get the FWDracingguide that tells how to center the engine/axles to reduce the axle's bottoming. The axles need some clearance at full bump, or the cage will shatter.
The first 2 sets have run 20+ hrs in the Chumpcar and the rental Golf. I recommend a regrease @ 20hrs. Open diff, and 10hr welded diff.
MM