Battling Jeff Young's TR8 at VIR

[SPiFF]

That heap is fast!!! :D Had a great race with Jeff at the SARRC/MARRS this weekend, thought I would share the vid.

http://www.vimeo.com/23463053

[lateapex911]

It's got a V8!

needs 100 lbs. ;)

[JIgou]

Zsolt, looks like that new motor is treating you well. :D

What camera are you running? Looks good!

[mossaidis]

Zsolt has a hunda, it's fast, put in 100 lbs!

[benspeed]

Great race! Enjoyed the whole show!

[spawpoet]

Holy cow does your car make some top-end power! You always have great in-car vid, and that was a great battle with Jeff. Whose Z is that that was dicing with you guys in the first third of the race?

[JeffYoung]

I think it is as much top end aero as it is power.

What really impressed me with Zsolt's car vis a vis an RX7 is the mid range. I pull Ron's Z car WAY more in the mid than Zsolt's. Sme with good RX7s.

Had a lot of fun racing Zsolt that race. Cool, fun, clean battle.

The Z car was a guy named Nathan Lucas. Outside pole sitter. Dude was LOOSE. Set a blazing lap in qual but couldn't lay it down in the race.

Zsolt and I caught the ITS leader next to last lap (green RX7). In my opinion, we had the two fastest ITS cars, at least for the last half of that race.

[SRX-7#27]

[QUOTE=JeffYoung;321987]The Z car was a guy named Nathan Lucas. Outside pole sitter. Dude was LOOSE. Set a blazing lap in qual but couldn't lay it down in the race.
QUOTE]

Nate had a motor failure. The car was great in qualifying but as soon as we took the green it started to tighten up. Apparently was spraying oil on the rear tires in select corners which made for an interesting drive.. Then the oil pressure dropped so he shut it down..

[JeffYoung]

Al, good to see you posting. Sorry we didn't get a chance to say hello.

Nice lap in qual on Saturday. Not sure any S car has turned a 15 at VIR in a few years.

[SRX-7#27]

Thanks Jeff! The qualifying conditions were just about perfect Saturday AM.. Clean track and nice crisp air! Had a great time visiting VIR, looking forward to next time.

[chuck baader]

Dammit Spiff!!! when are you going to put a gear in that 4 speed car???? Chuck

[SPiFF]

What camera are you running? Looks good!

GoProHD


Zsolt has a hunda, it's fast, put in 100 lbs!

Fast!?!!? Har! Couldn't even pass a heap of a Triumph! I think I need a 100# weight reduction and a cam allowance!!! :026:



Nate had a motor failure. The car was great in qualifying but as soon as we took the green it started to tighten up. Apparently was spraying oil on the rear tires in select corners which made for an interesting drive.. Then the oil pressure dropped so he shut it down..

Ah. That would explain it. Sounds exciting to say the least!


Dammit Spiff!!! when are you going to put a gear in that 4 speed car???? Chuck

Chuck ... I paid a lot of money converting this thing into a 4 speed.

As Marcus Grönholm once said, "3 gears are enough!". :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsvJhdiDwYU

[chuck baader]

"As Marcus Grönholm once said, "3 gears are enough!". :D"

Yea, as long as they are third, fourth, and FIFTH:026::026: Chuck

[bamfp]

Hey Chuck when your engine is at the rev limit Zsolt's is just starting to get happy. Got to keep it between 6000 and 8500 rpm. And he doesn't need a 5th gear.

[chuck baader]

Blake, last time I checked the mechanical advantage in the context of accelerating a mass, the more gear you have the quicker you accelerate. He is leaving a lot on the table. CB

[bamfp]

We only changed the FD ratio by 4%. Trust me you do not want to use 5th in this car. Car is way faster this way. Zsolt has data to prove it.

[Matt93SE]

Nice driving. looks like a blast to run with those guys.

Just for some comparo..
4th gear in my car is 1:1. 5th gear is stupid-tall at 0.76
stock final drive is 4.08

at MSR-Houston, I used to hit 6500rpm (redline) in 4th at the end of the straights. in the short corners, I could come off them at 5800in 2nd or bogging in 3rd (stupid stock gearbox!!)

I stuck a 4.6 rear end in the car so I came off the corners in the meat of 3rd gear and would have to go into 5th halfway down the straight.
BUT
4.6 * 0.76 = 3.496
4.08 * 1.00 = 4.08 (obviously)

So I wound running half the straight with an effective ratio of 3.5 instead of a 4.1.

at the end of the day, I was 3 seconds a lap SLOWER with the 4.6 rear end. doh.

[CRallo]

Nice driving. looks like a blast to run with those guys.

Just for some comparo..
4th gear in my car is 1:1. 5th gear is stupid-tall at 0.76
stock final drive is 4.08

at MSR-Houston, I used to hit 6500rpm (redline) in 4th at the end of the straights. in the short corners, I could come off them at 5800in 2nd or bogging in 3rd (stupid stock gearbox!!)

I stuck a 4.6 rear end in the car so I came off the corners in the meat of 3rd gear and would have to go into 5th halfway down the straight.
BUT
4.6 * 0.76 = 3.496
4.08 * 1.00 = 4.08 (obviously)

So I wound running half the straight with an effective ratio of 3.5 instead of a 4.1.

at the end of the day, I was 3 seconds a lap SLOWER with the 4.6 rear end. doh.

Good food for thought Matt! I've been figuring out what to do about that stuff myself... What size tire/wheel do you run? I currently have 45r15's and have to go to 5th at 88 or something like that :/ At LRP I shift to 5th going down the hill!

So yea, to the OP I don't like my 5th either! lol

[chuck baader]

I have been schooled...CB

[bamfp]

This goes against everything people have been doing for years. Zsolt's box will only work at few tracks like this. At Daytona there is no way it would work.

[SPiFF]

CMP isn't the greatest either. But, damn, it is awesome at VIR and RA. Just need to have 3 boxes for this car.

* RA/VIR/RRR (and probably AMP)
* CMP and other mickey mouse tracks
* Daytona/Lowes

[Matt93SE]

Good food for thought Matt! I've been figuring out what to do about that stuff myself... What size tire/wheel do you run? I currently have 45r15's and have to go to 5th at 88 or something like that :/ At LRP I shift to 5th going down the hill!

So yea, to the OP I don't like my 5th either! lol
Chris, I run 235/40/17 on my car in STU. it's a pretty short tire.
At the TMS race two weeks ago I was running 245/45/17 hoosier wets. I was at redline in 5th with the 4.6. doing the math, that was like 134 or 136mph. in the rain!


This goes against everything people have been doing for years. Zsolt's box will only work at few tracks like this. At Daytona there is no way it would work.

Eh? what you mean? the issue is the horrid spacing between stock gears in tons of street cars. In my case at that track, I can use gears 2-3-4 with the 4.1 rear end or I can run 3-4-5 with the 4.6 rear.

with the 4.1, my final ratios in each gear are: 13.55, 7.76, 5.34, 4.08, 3.10

With the 4.6, ratios are: 15.28, 8.75, 6.02, 4.6, 3.50

So if I use the 4.1, my USED gear ratios in 2,3,4 gears are: 7.76, 5.34, 4.08
If I use the 4.6, my USED ratios are: 6.02, 4.6, 3.50

My overall ratios are shorter with the 4.1, which means more revs/mile. that means more power pulses put to the ground and overall more speed.

It sounds counter-intuitive to run a taller final drive, but in my case it makes sense when you do the math and it works.

[bamfp]

Chris, I run 235/40/17 on my car in STU. it's a pretty short tire.
At the TMS race two weeks ago I was running 245/45/17 hoosier wets. I was at redline in 5th with the 4.6. doing the math, that was like 134 or 136mph. in the rain!



Eh? what you mean? the issue is the horrid spacing between stock gears in tons of street cars. In my case at that track, I can use gears 2-3-4 with the 4.1 rear end or I can run 3-4-5 with the 4.6 rear.

with the 4.1, my final ratios in each gear are: 13.55, 7.76, 5.34, 4.08, 3.10

With the 4.6, ratios are: 15.28, 8.75, 6.02, 4.6, 3.50

So if I use the 4.1, my USED gear ratios in 2,3,4 gears are: 7.76, 5.34, 4.08
If I use the 4.6, my USED ratios are: 6.02, 4.6, 3.50

My overall ratios are shorter with the 4.1, which means more revs/mile. that means more power pulses put to the ground and overall more speed.

It sounds counter-intuitive to run a taller final drive, but in my case it makes sense when you do the math and it works.

Meaning people always think they need a shorter FD. You need what works for the tracks you run and the RPM range the engine makes the most power. Keeping Zsolt's car above 6000rpm is key to making it go fast.

[CRallo]

Thanks for the info Matt! I need some taller tires short term and will start looking for an FD...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Really a great job with the power development on that car. It really seems to be able to keep pace with what should be one of the fastest ITS cars in a straight line...

[tnord]

add 100lbs!!!

[JeffYoung]

Actually, I think most of the cars up front are now pretty equal top end. I certainly have more mid range but as you can see I'm working on some handling issues.

GSR is what, 2600 and about 175ish whp.

I'm at 181 whp (peak best, most plots are high 170s), and a spec weight of 2560 but running at 2650 right now. Trilink and other stuff added about 40 lbs.

Top RX7s are high 170s/low 180s and 2680 (I think).

Z cars are low to mid 170s and 2430 or so.

Only car out of whack if the numbers I've heard are right is the Miata at 165 whp and 2380 or so. But that's just sour grapes on my part...lol...


Really a great job with the power development on that car. It really seems to be able to keep pace with what should be one of the fastest ITS cars in a straight line...

[SPiFF]

GSR is what, 2600 and about 175ish whp.

Don't forget the 125 torques! :D

[Andy Bettencourt]

Only car out of whack if the numbers I've heard are right is the Miata at 165 whp and 2380 or so. But that's just sour grapes on my part...lol...

About a 45% increase? :happy204:

[Butch Kummer]

CMP isn't the greatest either. But, damn, it is awesome at VIR and RA. Just need to have 3 boxes for this car.

* RA/VIR/RRR (and probably AMP)
* CMP and other mickey mouse tracks
* Daytona/Lowes

Just got back from VIR and saw this, but we run the same rear gear at Charlotte (Lowe's) as RA/VIR/RRR, but then maybe you guys carry more speed into NASCAR Three than we do!

[SPiFF]

Butch, I think our 2 cars are just a little bit different .... :023:

[JeffYoung]

Zsolt your car has better aero and may be different, but I run a 3.45 at Roebling, VIR and Daytona -- and do not run out of gear. I think our cars are going to be aero limited around 140 tops, and Charlotte will be the same. But we will see.

[SPiFF]

Jeff, I was talking about Butch's "thing" and my GSR. I had my street GSR at 140 indicated up there on I40 going to Raleigh, so we will see. :D I do need to start doing gear dev for Daytona and Lowe's before I run out of time.

[Chip42]

Zsolt - nice vid, thanks for posting it.

what is your FD gear? I've a friend down here in CFR (you know him) who keeps getting super-short, custom built gears in his GSR and they keep having problems (mechancial) - evidence supporitng the case to abandon the direction would be helpful, though I want to crunch the numbers with him as his may be the right course for a box suited to certain tracks (he relaly only runs daytona and sebring on a regular basis).

[Butch Kummer]

Jeff, I was talking about Butch's "thing" and my GSR. I had my street GSR at 140 indicated up there on I40 going to Raleigh, so we will see. :D I do need to start doing gear dev for Daytona and Lowe's before I run out of time.

You need to leave my "thing" out of this :blink:, but in our cars we see the same top end (just shy of 160) at CMS as we do at Road Atlanta or Roebling. Even if I don't do a confidence lift into NASCAR Three (which I've not worked myself up to yet) the corners are tighter at CMS than Daytona so the car binds up and limits the top speed more than I thought it would. At Daytona we'll gear the car for 178-180 and just let the big dog eat.

As always, YMMV...

BTW (and I'll post this on the other thread as well), the CS has agreed to split grid qualifying and a split start for Group 3 at Road Atlanta this weekend (SRF & Other "things" :rolleyes:).

[JeffYoung]

That's what I was tryign to say -- we have the same terminal velocity in the S cars at Roebling, VIR and Charlotte.

Daytona, differently animal, but not by much. I think I got up to 138 or so with the "old" motor, so interested in what the new one will do down there.

[Bryan88]

That's a good video.......good racing.....

I have to agree with the other guys in this thread......add 100 lbs. to both cars......LOL

[Mazmarc63]

And for another datapoint, I use a 5.13 gear in my Rx-7...period. Shift at 8500.

Zsolt, great video. While you guys were battling at VIR, we were battling at Daytona. The new pavement is spectacular. Its a different track.

Looking forward to seeing you guys race there...in my mirrors:D

[Ron Earp]

That was a damn good race and video. A couple of us watched it last night in more detail and it was very entertaining. Zsolt, I wanted to hold your foot the the floor a couple of times! Jeff Young drove a damn good race there as well, very strong showing in the TR8. Ditto for Chuck Hines, he was rolling out in the green machine. One more lap and one of you two might have been in first, too close to call.

[JeffYoung]

Now, in my experience, people don't start talking smack unless and until they being to worry they may lose......lol.....

Will try to make it this year. I'd say it's 50/50.


And for another datapoint, I use a 5.13 gear in my Rx-7...period. Shift at 8500.

Zsolt, great video. While you guys were battling at VIR, we were battling at Daytona. The new pavement is spectacular. Its a different track.

Looking forward to seeing you guys race there...in my mirrors:D

[seckerich]

It's not that hard to defeat a british car. All you do is set an open can of 10w30 on the pit wall and after 5 laps the ol bloodhound smells it and goes in.:D

[Russ Myers]

Castrol "R" is far more effective. Smell the heady fumes of castor oil.

Russ

[Chip42]

I thought they had a taste for MMO?

anyhow, from the research I've done, they are also attracted to hay bails with "ferrodo" and "dunlop" banners on them.

[CRallo]

Lol

[Matt93SE]

I thought they had a taste for MMO?


My Nissan LOVES that stuff.
especially when I still had my valve cover recir'd into the intake. smoky goodness on every left turn until the car was 1/2 quart low.
Corner workers loved it when I fogged for mosquitos my first session of every track day. :)