ITS Ford Mustang(s) Build - Stripper Stang Part II

[Ron Earp]

Attempt number two at running a Ford in IT. I present for your inspection Ford's finest level of Mustangness for the 1998 model year, a cherry two owner 71k loaded V6 5-speed Rustang.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/ITSMustang/98Mustang.jpg

This car drives extremely well and everything works. The Macpherson struts and rear shocks are shot but otherwise ok. It has the Mach 460 sound system, leather interior, power seats, ABS, cruise control, tilt wheel, and AC. Naturally it is equipped with the 3.8L "I don't want to rev past 4k" torquey V6 and a 3.08 or 2:73 rear gear which puts the top speed at somewhere over 210 MPH. Went that fast this morning on the way to work.

The idea is to whip this thing into shape and make a competitive ITS car out of it. I haven't dynoed it yet, but I did manage to weigh it. With my fat ass in the seat and my daughter recording weights we're at:

3129 lbs total
903 862

690 677

So it weighs less than the 2002 model I had last year, maybe 100 lbs less. We've got mission impossible to get down to a spec weight of 2480 lbs. But, there is a lot of weight lurking in this thing with the options and so forth. Not enough weight, but maybe enough to get the car down to the 2600 lb range and I think it could be competitive there.

If I end up building it I'll put it together as a build thread here. Step deux is to dyno it bone stock.

Ron

[Ron]

good luck on the build , I will follow with the hope you make weight. Our Fox body ITB was 2600 with me in it.

[Ron Earp]

I'm thinking we might be in your ball park but the spec weight is going to be next to impossible. On the upside I did lose 13 lbs tonight by removing the hideaway trailer hitch I didn't know it had so we're headed in the right direction.

[Knestis]

This is going to be VERY interesting. Thanks for sharing, Ron!

K

EDIT - is the Torino done?

[Ron Earp]

EDIT - is the Torino done?

No. The Torino got interrupted in early March with putting the new Z motor back in and then the Z got sold. And it is sold, the check has cleared, but the Z is still here. Packing up and shipping all the Z spares was a lot of work but that job is done. And the transport company is to pick up the car next week. Long live the Z!

So, despite Jeff Young's best efforts the Mustang will wait until the Torino is a driving automobile and rolling down the road. For now I'm enjoying driving the Mustang around. The 3.8L motor with the lazy rear end appears to get some great fuel mileage although I've got to see the first tank through to really figure out what's what.

[JeffYoung]

That car has the most stock torque in ITS I think -- 215. It gets to 170 whp and 200 wtq like mine and it gets to 2650 race weight like mine and you have a potential winner.

Ain't no reason we can't strip that car in a weekend and send it to Schimmel while we finish the Torino.

Best ITS racing in years is happening right now in SEDiv and you sold your car! Need to get your ass back out there.....

[Ron Earp]

Yes, the S racing is kicking it now. Hate I am missing it, but I can't make the remainder of the races with the car (CMP, RA, RRR, CMS) so there is no point in rushing it.

I might dyno it today at lunch of I can do a hit and run on the dyno shop. Be interesting to see what it comes up with. It has a lot of torque stock, but not so much horsepower. While driving it around I've learned that it will begrudgingly turn to 5200 RPM. I estimate that on the Dynojet it'll put down 130 hp and 185 ft lbs over a fairly broad range, peaking hp at 4500.

[CRallo]

Good to see! I hope you go through with it! They won't be able to group you with ITR though, it might spoil the look of the group... :p

[Ron Earp]

Good to see! I hope you go through with it! They won't be able to group you with ITR though, it might spoil the look of the group... :p

Yeah, if we do it then there might actually be a domestic car in IT. Whooo hooo! There are a few domestics but wow, walking around the VIR paddock this weekend you could just about rename the SCCA the Mazda Club of America.

[JLawton]

Yeah, if we do it then there might actually be a domestic car in IT. .


hey, hey, HEY!!! I am totally offended. I may now have to go cut my mullet!!

:lol:


I will be watching the build very carefully because I would love to run a Mustang in ITS or ITR.

[Ron Earp]

hey, hey, HEY!!! I am totally offended. I may now have to go cut my mullet!!

:lol:


Whoa whoa whoa, hold up. Flashback 90s. If you are wearing a mullet and driving a Saturn there is a problem already. You guys are supposed to be wearing a plaid flannel with a fanny pack and touting a new way of car companies, no negotiation, feel good marketing, and some such stuff. You don't do that in the paddock now?

[JLawton]

. You guys are supposed to be wearing a plaid flannel with a fanny pack and touting a new way of car companies, no negotiation, feel good marketing, and some such stuff. You don't do that in the paddock now?


I don't see the problem???




.

[Ron Earp]

I don't see the problem???
.

Probably not one. After shopping 30+ Mustangs on the interwebz and talking to at least twenty owners about theirs cars for sale I can tell you base V6 Mustangs are owned by a unique subset of the population.

[RedMisted]

Probably not one. After shopping 30+ Mustangs on the interwebz and talking to at least twenty owners about theirs cars for sale I can tell you base V6 Mustangs are owned by a unique subset of the population.

Secretaries? Lol.

[Ron Earp]

Secretaries? Lol.

Strippers, rednecks, and liars make up the bulk of them. Seriously, one owner offered to pose with the car if I bought it - stripper, Morehead City area of NC.

Another, when asked the condition of the interior of the car replied "that it was gutted and hard to determine because I've been using it for my painter truck. Driver seat is there though and the AC works".

And yet another claimed the car had never been wrecked although the carfax showed odometer rollback, some serious accidents, and one of the damn pictures he posted on Craigslist clearly showed left rear quarter damage. He didn't speak a lot of English so there might have been a miscommunication. Persistent guy though and liked to call me after 10pm at night to offer to sell me the car on the cheap, "I meet you tonight in Raleigh".

Dyno time is set for noon on Monday so we'll wind it up and see what its got. Did you ever dyno your 99 stock?

[RedMisted]

Strippers, rednecks, and liars make up the bulk of them.

I think that many strippers are secretaries moonlighting as such. Lol. Can't wait to hear what you might find when you gut the car. :D

[RedMisted]

Dyno time is set for noon on Monday so we'll wind it up and see what its got. Did you ever dyno your 99 stock?

Yeah. It was a pathetic 143whp stock.

[Ron Earp]

Yeah. It was a pathetic 143whp stock.

Was this on a Dynojet???

[Ron Earp]

Dyno pull today with a Dynojet, the same one we have been using for all of our race cars.

Any bets on the outcome?

I am guessing 126 rwhp and 182 rwtq. Not sure at what RPMs but it'll be low.

R

[RedMisted]

Was this on a Dynojet???

Yes. And on a hotter than hell/stickier than flypaper humid day, if that makes a difference.

The engine was the original, and I remember when I bought the car that its acceleration was anemic compared to previous rentals that I'd driven. The tuners were able to get it up to a respectable 158whp. Now with all the peripheral mods and the like, the replacement engine gets about 195whp.

I think your estimates are in the ballpark.

[Ron Earp]

The Dynojet spit out 125 horsepower and 189 ft/lbs of torque. The A/F was not so good at WOT and I bet with a bit of tweaking that it'd end up at 130hp and 192 tq, so that is what I'm calling it. Torque good, horsepower is a bit weak but the curves are broad so I think it has potential. Have to think about it.

[RedMisted]

The Dynojet spit out 125 horsepower and 189 ft/lbs of torque. The A/F was not so good at WOT and I bet with a bit of tweaking that it'd end up at 130hp and 192 tq, so that is what I'm calling it. Torque good, horsepower is a bit weak but the curves are broad so I think it has potential. Have to think about it.

I think your hp is just about right if you factor 15% driveline losses. That torque number looks pretty impressive, IMO.

[CRallo]

Wowsers that's a stump puller!!!!

BUILD it!!!

[Ron Earp]

Yes I think I will build it. It appears to be making an honest 140 crank hp and I'd expect a 72k mile car in good shape to come close to stated factory power. Interesting that it is "only" 17hp down to the ITR Mustang, but it is different Dynojets in different states.

Next step is acquiring a spare motor to be used at the IT base engine and start building. Engine build costs for this engine are insanely inexpensive. Parts are easy to come by. There will be "big money" spent on the exhaust but the other costs - pistons, valves, machine work - very affordable because it is a domestic engine and down here in NC there are many shops that thrive on this sort of work.

[RedMisted]

The engine was the original, and I remember when I bought the car that its acceleration was anemic compared to previous rentals that I'd driven. The tuners were able to get it up to a respectable 158whp. Now with all the peripheral mods and the like, the replacement engine gets about 195whp.


Tq on the original stock was 177. On the replacement, tq is 211. I think with a good IT build, another 15whp is not out of question. As for tq, the gain may not be as much...

[Ron Earp]

As advertised dyno plots for the engine. This is a bone stock example, still breathing through the stock air cleaner and out through the stock cat and single pipe exhaust. 72k original mile motor as well, with stock ECU and so on.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/ITSMustang/Mustangstocks.jpg

The torque peak is very low in the engine leading to a low RPM for peak horsepower. More ideal for a truck motor, or automatic equipped car that spends most of its life below 3000 RPM. But, we've seen engines just like this respond well to IT build rules. In fact, at the dyno shop they have a 97 Mustang V6 plot with some large primary long tube headers, dual exhaust via Ford Mustang GT, and cold air intake, with nothing else, that is up about 23 hp but more importantly the hp peak hits around 4700 RPM. Torque is close to the same at 199 lb-ft at around 3500 RPM. I bet with some real attention to all the IT-preps, particularily the exhaust side of things where Fords are generally challenged, we could shift the torque curve considerably.

All in all very promising. I think the engine will respond well to a full tilt IT build. And the chassis is a quite known quantity, which is to say, it isn't fantastic but the warts have long been exposed and it can be made to work reasonably well for what it is.

Might have to build it.

[benspeed]

Go for it! I was contemplating this car before selecting the 968. Could be a winner! Keen to watch the build. Heck, you can always drop in a V8 to race in another class if you feel like it :-)

[RedMisted]

I agree with your assessments, Ron. People have been telling me that my engine will probably make the 25% percent rule, or whatever it is, look conservative. Can't wait to build it.

[Ron Earp]

Go for it! I was contemplating this car before selecting the 968. Could be a winner! Keen to watch the build. Heck, you can always drop in a V8 to race in another class if you feel like it :-)

This flexibility is what creates some sense of security about the car for me. I’ve made the decision to race a Ford, the only Ford choice of interest to me is a Mustang, and this platform lends itself to a variety of venues.

SCCA AS
SCCA ITR as a V8 (5L)
SCCA ITR as a V8 (4.6L)
SCCA ITR as a V6 (would require sheet metal changes)
NASA CMC
NASA various classes

Many options from which to choose if the ITS V6 build didn't pan out.


I'm heavily researching the suspension options now and will start collecting parts soon.

[BullFish]

Ron,

Awesome to see the build, as I have been contemplating the same thing! I have successfully campaigned a '94 in AS since 2004. Feel free to email me at: asracer89 (at) sbcglobal.net I will do my best to point you in the right direction.

Kristian

[manny]

Yes build it . When done this season with my ITB mustang thats the one i was thinking of doing. It does give you so many options in what class too, also the after market and factory are filled with parts to use :023:. Please keep us informed and also post some pics with it.

[Ron Earp]

I've located a Mustang breaker about 40 miles from me in Henderson NC. All the guy does is buy Mustangs and part them, cheap. He's put aside an engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, brakes, and some other parts. Cost? Looking like $450. The tranny was just rebuilt and the engine still runs, no smoke. Turns out nobody much wants the 3.8L engines and 7.5" rear ends so you can get them on the cheap.

[RedMisted]

I've located a Mustang breaker about 40 miles from me in Henderson NC. All the guy does is buy Mustangs and part them, cheap. He's put aside an engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, brakes, and some other parts. Cost? Looking like $450. The tranny was just rebuilt and the engine still runs, no smoke. Turns out nobody much wants the 3.8L engines and 7.5" rear ends so you can get them on the cheap.

There's also a place in GA called Mustang Parts Salvage. I got some stuff from them dirt cheap. 770-867-2644. :023:

[seckerich]

I've located a Mustang breaker about 40 miles from me in Henderson NC. All the guy does is buy Mustangs and part them, cheap. He's put aside an engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, brakes, and some other parts. Cost? Looking like $450. The tranny was just rebuilt and the engine still runs, no smoke. Turns out nobody much wants the 3.8L engines and 7.5" rear ends so you can get them on the cheap.

If you need me to go by and check anything out Ron, just let me know. Live 5 miles away. You also have no excuse not to drop by the shop if you come to town.:023: OOPs, just saw Henderson, Not hendersonville.

[Ron Earp]

Lots of folks interested in seeing one built. Chris has his ITR version and it is pretty clear that it could be a contender. I think this ITS version has a shot too.

The amount of road racing knowledge out there regarding the chassis is pretty high. If you ask around at Maximum Motorsports and Kenny Brown you can talk directly to the guys who were doing the chassis setup back when the companies campaigned stangs in semi-pro efforts. Turechoice also has a fellow who's knowledgeable about making SN95s and Foxes work.

While a full tilt build won't be inexpensive, it will be less expensive than a BMW or Porsche ITS car.

[Ron Earp]

I just laid a 100 yard one wheel burnout. You other ITS competitors scared yet?

[Racerlinn]

When are you going to start stripping the stripper?

[Ron Earp]

Be later this summer once the Torino is fired up and together. It doesn't have to be "done", but it must run.

I am collecting parts though. Caymen inspecting the first round of parts in for the build.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/firstparts.jpg

[Chip42]

Be later this summer once the Torino is fired up and together. It doesn't have to be "done", but it must run.

I am collecting parts though. Caymen inspecting the first round of parts in for the build.



I'm glad you decided to take the plunge. did you chose the spool for lightness or handling? I'd figure a little bit of slip would be desirable.

[JLawton]

Be later this summer once the Torino is fired up and together. It doesn't have to be "done", but it must run.

I am collecting parts though. Caymen inspecting the first round of parts in for the build.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/firstparts.jpg


Are those <gasp> off the shelf performance parts?? I've heard rumor of such things but have never actually seen any!!

:D

[Ron Earp]

I'm glad you decided to take the plunge. did you chose the spool for lightness or handling? I'd figure a little bit of slip would be desirable.

Caymen wanted the spool because this particular one is extremely rare for a 7.5" and it was available for a good price. Always good to have options as unused parts can be moved on. It would definitely bring the lightness, probably 20 lbs lighter than a clutch pack / carrier setup, maybe 25 lbs lighter than torsen / carrier.


Are those <gasp> off the shelf performance parts?? I've heard rumor of such things but have never actually seen any!!

:D

Everything is a phone call away, except for that spool. Z's are pretty good for parts supply but nothing like this. A large range of parts exists for the SN95 platform; from low quality to high quality pieces. The low quality stuff is very cheap and the high quality stuff is affordable. Even "specialty" items like spherical bearings are available as kits, all you gotta do it call. That's what volume does for you in the aftermarket.

Service parts are also inexpensive but from reading the Mustang boards it appears you should sometimes spend the "big money" for the good stuff. For example, instead of the front sealed bearing cartridge for $39.50 you should get the Ford piece for $89. Twice as much money but it'll last for a year of racing instead of a few weeks, or so I'm told.

It really might be that you can have "Good, Inexpensive, High Performance" - pick three instead of the usual two. At least, it seems inexpensive when you've been exposed to race car prices involving Jensen Healeys, TR8s, Zs, Porsche, etc.

[Ron Earp]

I've done a bit more work on the ITS Mustang build. Jeff and I went to the Mustang breaker man that is semi-local and picked up the entire running gear of the Mustang - engine, tranny, rear axle, front suspension, sway bars, computer, brakes, uprights, and hubs. The plan is to build each of these sub-assemblies up so that when it comes time to assemble the car it'll go smoothly.

I've got the engine on a stand now (pictures are from hoist) and have learned a few interesting things about this little motor. Based on what I've seen so far it should prove to be a decent performer. One refreshing change for "modern" automobiles is that they appear to have "real" oil pans that are designed to keep oil around the pickup. This engine has a very deep rear sump pan that incorporates some thought toward oil flow and containment. Vastly different from what Ford was putting on run-of-the-mill engines from the 70s/80s.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/ITSMustang/frontengine.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/ITSMustang/sideengine.jpg

The engine itself is pretty small but the front dress adds a lot of length to it. The top of the engine looks like a mess but around 30% of that is the EGR plumbing and routing - EGR feeds, bypass, controller, connectors, and then wiring for the controller valve. The rest is pretty simple - fuel injection harness, coil pack, cam sensor, crankshaft sensor, then TPS, MAF harness, starter, and oil pressure/water temp senders. Interestingly enough the fuel injectors insert directly into the head. The injectors are closer to the valve than they are on the fuel injected 302/5L motors and, while not having an architecture similar to this engine, they have a very similar upper and lower intake design for the 86-95 years.

And, its got headers from the factory! Man, this thing is already optimized and no more power is to be had. We better run it back through the process and give it a weight break. Yeah. Headers. The inside of that collector is a joke with each of the three pipes coming into a triangular pie shaped merge. It is if someone cut the circle into thirds and each pipe gets a wedge shaped third to come into, no merge, just empties into space. The design of the 99-04 header is different and looks less impressive, more of a log with pipes going into it, but I suspect neither flow very well at all. There are some off the shelf V6 headers from the usual Ford suspects like Hooker, JBA, etc. but they frankly all look like crap and have large primaries, literally no merge collectors, and are not the correct lengths of anything according to PipeMax and Burns. Custom headers will be needed to extract maximum power.

[Ron Earp]

I started the ITS build in earnest this past weekend. Drove the car to work on Friday, drove it back home, parked it in the garage, and started the dis-assembly process. I must say it was a relaxing weekend of parts pulling, parts selling on Craigslist, sawsalls, grinders, and other assorted tools.

The car has a lot of weight in it, no doubt about that. I weighed most everything I took out and put it into my ITS Mustang spreadsheet. A few weights off the top of my head:

Driver seat 43 lbs
Passenger seat 38 lbs
Passenger air bag 14 lbs
Rear seat back 28 lbs
Rear seat Cushion 5 lbs
Mach 460 under deck speakers/amps 29 lbs
AC compressor 13 lbs
AC evaporator 4 lbs
etc.

I've got the total weight removed at home but that figure doesn't really matter a lot. I'll weigh the car on Wednesday and see what our starting place is for the cage, seat, and other needed items.

The build on the rear axle has started too. Jeff Y was in charge of taking it apart and made some progress there. Parts are on the way to be installed - LSD to go with my brand new off Ebay $45 Ford 3.45 R&P.

You absolutely cannot the beat parts cost on a Mustang. No way, no how. There are simply so many of these cars out there that new factory parts are very inexpensive and the aftermarket support is probably not duplicated on any other car in the US, maybe in the world. If you want it, can think it up, it has probably been made already.



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/inside1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/inside2.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/inside3.jpg

[Racerlinn]

Find any loose change? Or condoms?

[Ron Earp]

Couple of bucks in change, some hair bobbins, Lance cracker package, potato chips, and that was about it. Pretty clean actually.

What I did learn is things don't weigh as nearly as much as we'd like or think they do. About the only item I can remember pulling and weighing that lived up to expectations was the windows and mechanisms. Tracks, motor, runners, and glass came in right at 22.4 lbs on my certified UPS scale here at work.

Door locks were surprisingly light. Just right at one pound each for the motor/rod, and you know these things are pretty strong.

But the old "seats weigh 60 lbs each" and "sound deadening is 50 lbs" is BS. This car has some heat/sound mats on the floor which are glued in place that I calculate weigh just shy of 2.9 lbs total, based on a 1cm x 1cm sample I took and weighed, then ran the area calculations with. I'm not bothering with them because they are a bitch to scrape off.

The rest of the sound deadening in this car looked like pillows - plastic bags stuffed with some sort of matting that weighed next to nothing. These were squirreled away in various recesses of the car and easily removed.

[seckerich]

Have you tried the dry ice on the sound mats?

[Ron Earp]

Have you tried the dry ice on the sound mats?

I have not but might give it a go. Dry ice is available here and it'd be nice to get those pieces out, even though they don't weigh much at all.

[seckerich]

Makes for a cleaner interior. Put the ice in a big thick plastic bag and break it up with a dead blow hammer. Lets you get better contact with the surface. After you see frost on the underside hit the area with the dead blow softly to break it loose. It took 15 minutes to strip the entire RX8. If you have a lot of melt strips and liner to remove just go by the welding supply place and get a dewer of liquid nitrogen, it is really fast with that.

[Knestis]

A guy out in the NW built what he called the "death ray..."

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,6465,6493

K

[Ron Earp]

Thanks for the tips fellows because I'll have to go after that weight. No death ray is available but 25 lbs of dry ice I can get on the way home from work.

We were able to scale the car up tonight and see where we're at. I have to say we're better off than I thought we were, but not where we need to be.

We're essentially at 2510 lbs with the stock tank and about 12 gallons of gas. So I'd feel comfortable calling it 2440 lbs. There are still things left to remove - cruise control, some airbag crash sensors, and a few other odds and ends like comparing a fuel cell to the stock tank. But there is a lot to put back in - cage, race seat, harness, fire system, and other racing related items.

So in addition to those dampening pads, which isn't going to be fun, I'm going to need to attack the wiring harness and remove optional circuits that we can legally remove. There are a lot of them - ABS, anti theft, power windows/mirrors/locks, AC, and so on. The harnesses are very heavy. Tonight we spent time separating the metal from from the dash so we could get to the dash harness - just the dash harness weighed in at 9.7 lbs and the door harnesses were a bit over 1.5 lbs each. In this respect it would have been nice to have obtained a five speed manual non-power window non-ABS non-AC car that never had all the options, but the single example of that I found, which took almost a year, was in very poor shape. Ford quit make the stripper cars in 95 so if you're inclined to find one look for 1994 and 1995 models, after that they all had quite a bit of options regardless of trim. Anyhow, I'll need to be thinking about very light rear suspension components as well as a light ($$$$) seat.

I have to say I'm encouraged. I know we'll never make the 24XX spec weight but if we could score a 2700 lbs weight with driver I feel we could make the car competitive. I don't think it'll ever be one of the "cars to have" in ITS but I think it can be a contender and add some flavor to the class.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashstripping.jpg

[Ron Earp]

..washer .....washer bottle....Must.....must not remove.....washer bottle......

Not a whole lot under the fenders to deal with. Cruise control, washer bottle, ABS stuff, and the controversial carbon canister, which in a race paddock is more rare than rocking horse poo.

One thing that is notably absent is rust and undercoating, a welcome change from the Z.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/washerbottle.jpg

[joeg]

Forget the dry ice...sort of an urban legend and very much material dependent. For Fords you need to get the cold under the material and you therefore need to be on a rotisserie.

The N2 death ray is the nuts.

For me it was a acraper and a Dynazip. Hardwork but it gets the job done.

[tim240z]

plastic/aluminium hardware time?

[Ron Earp]

I am not sure the dry ice will work either, but it is cheap and I have 25 lbs ready to go. Removing those mats is more for aesthetics than anything else because there is precious little weight involved with them.

[shwah]

I always removed that stuff with a propane torch and a putty knife. Heat it to just bubbling and it comes right off, leaving clean primer underneath.

[Ron Earp]

The dry ice myth is busted, at least on a 1998 Ford Mustang sound deadening removal. I used dry ice in various ways - direct on the material, in bags, taped to the bottom and nothing worked. Had 25+ lbs on hand too and allowed it plenty of time to get to as low of a temp as possible. Wouldn't crack and wouldn't chip off.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dryice.jpg

What works really well is a heat gun and a couple of metal scrapers. About 45 mins and Jeff G and I had the driver's side about 90% done. Tomorrow we'll have two heat guns and also give it a go with the torch. There seems to be happy medium where it isn't too cold, nor too hot, and it comes off in nice large sheets.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/scrape.jpg

I calculated that one square centimeter of this junk weighs 5.5 grains. At 7000 grains to a pound and with a re-calcuation of the square area we come up with 7 lbs of material. A lot of work for 7 lbs, but with a car like this that is severely weight challenged you have to do it. Besides, leaving it was going to piss me off. I envision a nice tidy white interior for this car and having those deadening mats painted over would always remind me that I "didn't do it right".

We've also already separated a couple of wiring harnesses and removed non-required circuits that we can legally remove. Man, there are a metric assload of circuits on this car and I suspect we'll be 10-15 lbs lighter on wiring when we're all through. Be a lot of work though, but again, something that is needed. All these little pounds add up and put us closer to that unobtainable 2480 lbs weight.

[Matt93SE]

It's a bit late to add, but I've found that the dry ice is much less effective in summer. When it's nice and cold outside, the dry ice works wonders. I started when it was about 40 deg outside and pulled the entire floor of my Nissan out in 30 min and about 6 pcs. I got busy with life and came back about May to finish the rest of the car. OMFG I couldn't get anything to come loose!
Finally I wound up packing towels under the bottom of the sheet metal, and then put the dry ice down on top and covered it in more towels. that finally did the trick and got it cold enough the glue finally froze.

[Ron Earp]

I think the dry ice working is going to depend on the type of sound deadening material that is in the car. Essentially you're looking marked change in the material with respect to a lower temperature. This stuff that is put into the Mustang doesn't appear to do that.

Got a lot of work done on Saturday. Jeff G. disabled the steering lock and attacked the wiring harness. The Ford PATS (Passive Aggressive Anti Theft?) system is a pain in the ass and has miles of wiring in the car. All that stuff there on the floor is part of it and the remote access / locking system. While we've identified it we can't remove it yet because we have to be certain that we can re-program the EEC-V to cope with it being missing. Jeff G is considering his Mustang work as classroom experience since he's mildly considering building one.

I spent hours in the car with a torch removing the deadening material. The torch and scraper are the most effective means we've found. And, I've collected every last scrap of it in a box so it can be weighed. So far I'm up to 4 lbs. Yay. I also finished up work putting the AC box back together and getting it back into the car. Ditto the dash board frame.

Jeff Y. popped by too and finished up taking the rear end apart before the "Scotch Educational Break" ended work for the day. Rear end gears, traction device, and rebuild kit are all here. Need to sandblast the housing and paint it for re-assembly.



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/pats.jpg

[ITEGT]

Brings back so many memories....

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/99cobra2881/006-4.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/99cobra2881/004-2.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/99cobra2881/032.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/99cobra2881/008.jpg

End result is a bag of black tar and foam seam sealant that weighs 5 lbs.

Best thing to remove the tar? A pneumatic gasket scraper, takes the tar paper off like warm butter and doesnt damage the sheet metal underneath. Hence the name gasket scraper, if itll work on an oil pan then it wont damage sheet metal. Watch out on aluminum cause the blade will go right through aluminum too. Finish off the job with a cup brush on an electric grinder.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=pnuematic+gasket+scraper&FORM=HURE

This was my first build, first time taking this shit off and I figure out a better way that doesnt involve a torch, dry ice or hand held scrapers. Better lucky than good. Give the pneumatic gasket scraper a shot it works!!

[Ron Earp]

End result is a bag of black tar and foam seam sealant that weighs 5 lbs.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=pnuematic+gasket+scraper&FORM=HURE


Thanks for the recommendation. I'll call Harbour Fright and see if they have one. I'd pay $25 for one but that is about it since I'm 80% finished. I thought to use my air chisel but I'm afraid I'd rip holes in the car with it.

[Ron Earp]

Mucho work accomplished today with both Jeffs stopping by. Jeff 1 disassembled another engine while Jeff 2 and I worked on the harness and scraping the interior.

We have separated the door harnesses and the anti-theft stuff, shown in the picture below. The wiring amounted to 7.5 lbs. We still have a bit more to go to remove optional things from the car but we've got the bulk of it. The end result will be a factory OEM harness with high quality wires and connectors that has the necessary feeds to run the car, plus lights etc. I plan that this car will remain street legal since I find the option of driving on the road to test things out really valuable.

The sound deadening is now completely gone and came in at 9 lbs even. So it is a worthwhile thing to do, although it is painful to squat there in the car for hours.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/insidedone.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/wires.jpg

[ITEGT]

From looking at your pics some of the sound deadening tar paper was already removed from my car. Lucky me.

What is the harness that runs under where the front seats used to be? I see the plugs that used to be for the power seats but is there any wiring of any importance contained in that bundle?

My ITE car is sitting in around 2800# empty. Im going to try and take 100# more off this winter but Im running out of weight reduction ideas. Also have to add some weight back in with a fire system and an accusump.

Pass side door inner sheetmetal, and the rear package tray should take off some decent weight. May also go to tubular front and rear bumpers.

Very nice work on the wiring harness. Im getting my nerve up to take on this now that the car is running. Figured I was asking for trouble messing with wiring on a car that wasnt already running.

Anthony

[Ron Earp]

What is the harness that runs under where the front seats used to be? I see the plugs that used to be for the power seats but is there any wiring of any importance contained in that bundle?

What year car do you have?

On the SN95 cars that bundle is about 1.5" thick and has at least 60+ wires. The majority of the wires are for the keyless entry system, the stereo (this car has the Mach 460 so many wires), cigar lighters, parking brake switch, cross harness that connects both door harnesses, the passive anti theft system, defroster, lights, backup, brake lights, fuel pump, fuel sender, immobilizer, and that is about it.

All I wanted was the brake lights, tail lights, fuel stuff, defroster, and signals. You might want less.

The harness is done now and I'll take pictures of it. Very slim and svelte with probably eight wires going to the back. Now the harness will cross and route under the dash instead of over the tunnel, another reason to clean it up as you can get rid of the mid-branches and get them out of the floor pan. Weight is coming out of the car. A few pounds at a time, but it is coming out and will add up.

The door skins were surprisingly light. I suspect you'll find the package tray is somewhat similar, maybe five to six pounds. If you have a Fox car there were some plastic bumpers you could use but I don't know where and what year models those were. The SN95 bumpers don't weigh much at all and even if I could toss them I probably wouldn't.

[ITEGT]

What year car do you have?

On the SN95 cars that bundle is about 1.5" thick and has at least 60+ wires. The majority of the wires are for the keyless entry system, the stereo (this car has the Mach 460 so many wires), cigar lighters, parking brake switch, cross harness that connects both door harnesses, the passive anti theft system, defroster, lights, backup, brake lights, fuel pump, fuel sender, immobilizer, and that is about it.

All I wanted was the brake lights, tail lights, fuel stuff, defroster, and signals. You might want less.

The harness is done now and I'll take pictures of it. Very slim and svelte with probably eight wires going to the back. Now the harness will cross and route under the dash instead of over the tunnel, another reason to clean it up as you can get rid of the mid-branches and get them out of the floor pan. Weight is coming out of the car. A few pounds at a time, but it is coming out and will add up.

The door skins were surprisingly light. I suspect you'll find the package tray is somewhat similar, maybe five to six pounds. If you have a Fox car there were some plastic bumpers you could use but I don't know where and what year models those were. The SN95 bumpers don't weigh much at all and even if I could toss them I probably wouldn't.

2000 Mustang GT

Thats what I was afraid of,,, that there are some wires with use hidden throughout the bundle.

How did you isolate what wires were for what? Start at the end say tail lamps and back track?

[Ron Earp]

2
How did you isolate what wires were for what? Start at the end say tail lamps and back track?

It is a time consuming project. You WILL need a Ford factory wiring manual. This lists all the wires, colors, and connector types. The rest is sitting down and understanding what is going on. Sometimes wires will splice, go to multiple connectors, and/or change colors so it takes time.

The job is helped by the fact that the factory connectors are fantastic. On most of the connectors you can flip the back open, push a tab, and you can extract individual wires from the connector. That way you don't have cut wires in the connectors and it is easy to remove them properly.

[JoshS]

Okay, I understand the need to be thorough with weight savings on this car.

But I don't think it's legal to remove individual wires from the harness in most cases, unless there was a harness available that didn't have those individual wires and you are merely turning one factory harness into a different factory harness. The harness itself is the part that needs to stay stock, at least, that's my interpretation.

[Ron Earp]

But I don't think it's legal to remove individual wires from the harness in most cases, unless there was a harness available that didn't have those individual wires and you are merely turning one factory harness into a different factory harness. .

This is the case. My car was a fully loaded example that had all the options (see posts) that were not on all cars.

For example, shown below is the Mach 460 sound harnesses out of the rear of the car. These were carefully extracted out of the harness intact because they are worth decent money on Ebay.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mach.jpg

[Knestis]

That's precisely what we did with Pablo II, untangling all of the smaller assemblies from the bigger assemblies.

The whole exercise was of course predicated on the assumption that when we have permission to remove [whatever] all of the parts associated with [whatever] can come out. And [whatever] was operationalized as either something that the rules specifically allow to be removed OR something that some example of the model of the car, as listed in the ITCS, came without (so under update/backdate).

We then re-wrapped the resulting harnesses the same way the stock ones were, not incidentally finding and fixing a few faults (e.g., rubbed insulation) in the process...

K

[Ron Earp]

That's precisely what we did with Pablo II, untangling all of the smaller assemblies from the bigger assemblies.


It is a pain in the ass but I think it is worth it. In the end you know what you have and you have made it simple to troubleshoot. You can still use the factory manual to troubleshoot it too.

I also bought 1994 and 1998 MY Ford Mustang brochures off Ebay so I could show what was optional on the various years I can cross pollinate from. 1998 MY had a lot of stuff as standard, but in 1994 you could get essentially a stripper that didn't even have AC. The wiring manual shows these optional harnesses too as subassemblies.

Back to the building part, I took a 1998 V6 15x7 stock Mustang wheel and weighed it to see how that shook out. The wheel in question is this one:

http://www.iautobodyparts.com/images/products/crashparts_new/%28aly03172u%29_1998_ford_mustang_15_x_7_alloy_whe el.jpg

And they are just about free from Mustang owners since they invariably take out a loan and upgrade to some blingy 17" or 18" wheels when they put the drop on their hooptie.

Anyhow, they are not serious light weight wheels but they aren't so bad either. With OEM durability and Craigslist availability, they come in at 15.1 lbs. I think they'll be great for rains, intermediates, and/or street tires (yes, the car will have tags/title, got to uphold that IT vestige from double duty days). Heck, at only 4 lbs heavier than the best wheel I was able to find for the Mustang that isn't too shabby. But, on a car that is severely weight challenged they aren't a dry racing option.

[JoshS]

But just because the equipment was optional doesn't mean that the wiring for it was optional. Plenty of cars come with wiring for equipment that isn't actually installed on the vehicle. But if the Fords really came without wiring for optional equipment, then you are good.

[Knestis]

15 pounds for those wheels is not bad at all. I want to think the stock wheels on the Golf were about 19, and they were a 14x6.

K

[Ron Earp]

15 pounds for those wheels is not bad at all. I want to think the stock wheels on the Golf were about 19, and they were a 14x6.

K

No, not bad at all. And they are the 5 on 4.5" (114.3mm) bolt pattern that fits RX7s too. I read something about some RX7s guys use them for rains also.

VW 14x6s at 19 lbs seem really stout. VW equipping you for some off road excursions?

[dickita15]

Even if you are right Josh there is a fair amount that can come out. there is language about ignition, emissions and gauges that gives you some room. I was amused by the wording on dome lights, I think it says operating mechanisms.

[Ron Earp]

Good news - the wiring parse worked fine and the car functions as normal. There were a few hiccups along the way but it cleaned up nicely and is working as it should.

I also did some poking around in the front of the car and removed everything forward of the wheel wells. Not too interesting up there, but I did notice the bumpers are of good design and not overly heavy. They are essentially rectangular tubes, maybe 0.060" thickness, and the inside is filed with a molded piece of foam. In front of that is a foam piece that is the shape of the bumper and give shape/support to the bumper cover. Definitely much more robust than the old Z setup, and infinitely more available with respect to parts.

[Knestis]

...which is good because, you know, a Mustang in ITS is going to turn the class into a smash-up derby. ;)

K

[Ron Earp]

...which is good because, you know, a Mustang in ITS is going to turn the class into a smash-up derby. ;)
K

In light of the recent destruction at CMS it is like that now.

[Matt93SE]

Just throwing it out there, but if the harness isn't worth it's weight in gold and you have male and female connectors, you may find it worth your while to keep it and use it for other things..
all of my gauges are electronic. I modified the OE radio harness with all of the gauge wiring. Power to the gauges comes through the old radio power and ground wires, then all of the sensor wires are plugged into the connections for the antenna and speaker wires.

I molested the dash harness and was able to move the wipers and headlights down to the center console as well and used a DPDT switch for the high/low beams.

Now, when I need to remove my center panel, I just unplug the OE radio, headlight, and wiper plugs and all the electricals are out. I just wish the fire bottle and brake bias knob had quick disconnects!

[ITEGT]

Need brake cooling ducts by chance?

[Ron Earp]

Need brake cooling ducts by chance?

I do need to make or buy some. If you have some in aluminum that are the center of the hub type I'd be interested.

Lots more work today, probably about eight hours total starting around 6am and rolling on most of the day. External pulls for the trunk and hood made, interior stripping finished and cleaned, wiring harness finished and checked, lots more odds and ends tidied up. It is ready for the cage installation.

[Matt93SE]

While you're on the subject of brake ducts, any hints on attaching them to the spindle? Never seen it done properly before- lots of zip ties that melt or don't hold anything in place.

[Ron Earp]

While you're on the subject of brake ducts, any hints on attaching them to the spindle? Never seen it done properly before- lots of zip ties that melt or don't hold anything in place.


The way to do it is to make a plate that includes mounting holes that mate up to existing bolt holes on the spindle. If I build some for the stang I'll copy something like this:

http://store.kennybrown.com/files/imagecache/product_full/05%20Mustang%20Brake%20Duct_0.JPG

It mounts onto the spindle using the dust shield attachment points. Seals off the inside of the rotor and insures the air passes through the rotor vanes as it should.

http://store.kennybrown.com/files/imagecache/product_full/71200_small.jpg

[Matt93SE]

Must be nice to have a bolt-on dust shield from the factory. All of my Nissan stuff presses onto the knuckle around the stub. I guess I could have some tabs bent up and hose clamp it around there or something (since I know I can't cut sheet metal w/ close enough tolerances to press-fit over anything!)..

That at least gives me some ideas though. Thx!

[Ron Earp]

It wouldn't be too big of a deal to drill and tap a couple of small diameter holes in the knuckle to accept screws. They would only need to be maybe a 1/4" in.

Or, just toss that car and come on over to the domestic side!

[Matt93SE]

Or maybe I should race a Mazda like almost everyone else in TX....

http://blehmco.com/pics/track_pics/tws/2011%20May%20Lone%20Star%20Dbl%20Nat/DSC2926.jpg





....Now back to your regularly scheduled Mustang discussion.

[Ron Earp]

Or maybe I should race a Mazda like almost everyone else in TX....

One of the reasons I'm doing a domestic. We were walking around the paddock at VIR and fully 50%+ of the race cars there that weekend were Mazdas. Mazda Sports Car Club of America.

[Ron Earp]

Lots of car work today - Mustang, Lola, and some of those pesky every day driver cars.

Got the dash installed into the car and it is now ready for the cage. Interior is completely gutted and is as light as it'll ever be. We'll be using the factory gauges and augmenting them with a mechanical water temp and oil pressure gauge, along with a wide band O2. You can see the special bezels that will cluster those around the driver, two in the instrument area and one on the column.

The factory gauges work pretty well as indicators and there are additoinal lights that illuminate for low oil, high water temp, and no alternator charging. Therefore we'll be keeping them intact and functioning.

The center console area will house the Traqmate, remote tire pressure monitor, radio, and a few switches for camera and cool system.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashin.jpg

[titanium]

Here are the ducts that I'm using on my Mustang.
http://www.lapponline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78_79_82_86&products_id=202&zenid=d3773a30d1b85603fe7f1cc83dfbc962

[shwah]

For all the effort to remove a few lbs of asphalt, why no Dash2 display and ditch all the guages and cluster? It must be lighter that way.

[Ron Earp]

For all the effort to remove a few lbs of asphalt, why no Dash2 display and ditch all the guages and cluster? It must be lighter that way.

The asphalt is finally all out, a bit more in the back, and it came to 10.4 lbs.

I considered an electronic dash but the Ford piece weighs 2.1 lbs with the bezel, pretty light for what it is. I'll pull it out an take a picture, but it is very flat and thin, all plastic, and there isn't much there. So I could save a pound or so, but I like factory dashes. The other three gauges that will fill the holes are all light Autometer gauges that don't weigh 1.4 lbs all together.

[manny]

Ron, very nice work. I also have been thinking of the V6 platform, just so many parts out there for the taking. Keep us informed as you progress :023:

[Ron Earp]

The car is somewhat of a challenge. Weight is coming out of it but unless the driver weighs zero, and the cage too, it'll never make 2480 lbs weight. But the engine will also respond better than 25% so I'm thinking if I can get a racing weight around 26XX lbs, and all signs point to that being possible, then the car might be competitive in S. I think it could probably hit the 25XX pound zone, maybe, but time will tell.

I don't think it'll be the car to have in S, but if you want to race a particular brand of car, as I did, then you take what you get. I'd not advise someone to strike up a build just yet unless they are dying to race an IT Mustang.

Now the ITR Mustang, I think that one is a full on go. It'll make a lot of power and I know that is can make weight in ITR if the builder is careful. Prices for 1999-2004 Mustangs are dirt cheap too, so if you want a safe bet the ITR V6 Rustang is the way to go.

[Ron Earp]

Busted out the vinyl cutter and did a little stripe work on the Mustang so we'd have a change of pace in workflow. Getting large stripes cut and affixed to the car with no bubbles or runs is not a trivial task. After two false starts and about 12 feet of wasted vinyl I got the hang of it and put the orange stripe with silver trim on the hood. Looks not half bad.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stripe1.JPG

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stripe2.JPG

[Ron Earp]

Quite a bit has been happening in Mustang land over the last week or so. We've torn into the transmission for a rebuild and the rear end. Both of these are new builds for me and I've a question for the Ford guys.

The rear end in the car is of course the 7.5" unit. I've prepped the axle and now we're ready to re-install a new R&P, LSD device, and new bearings.

Have a look at this picture:

Hatch Pattern on Bearing Shells (http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/hatch.JPG)

One bearing shell and one bearing race, the driver's side, has a match pattern. The other side does not, it is smooth. I have found no mention of this pattern in the shop manual or other sources.

Q: Is the pattern there to mark the bearing cap so that it doesn't get mixed up, or, was it there to help grip the bearing and one side is wiped out? Any Ford 7.5" rear guys here have some knowledge they wish to share?

Other than that things are going well. Motor got shipped out to the motor guy and the car is ready for the cage pending the builder being free to do the job.

[Ron Earp]

Lots of things are happening with the build but I'm not doing all of them. Rear end is being assembled, cage being installed, and engine being built. The engine builder is about half way through the build and sent a few pictures. Heads are rebuilt and parts are all about ready to go back in.

I hope the rear axle will be done this weekend and I suspect the cage is a few weeks out. I've got the transmission apart and will rebuild it myself. So in theory sometime in November I should have lots of sub assemblies to reassemble.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/motor1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/bottom.jpg

I've collected a great many of Mustang parts via the second hand market - numerous camber/caster plates, multiple intakes, heads, shocks, struts, bearings, and the list goes on. Typically fairly inexpensive but good quality parts. Having a large number of different items available allows you to pick and choose for your criteria.

For example, I had the standard issue Maximum Motorsports camber/caster plates and they are nice pieces, but, VERY heavy. All steel. A Mustang strut isn't like a standard McPherson strut car because the spring isn't on the strut itself, therefore you can use a lighter piece. The Hotchkis parts are all ally and much lighter than the MM plates which are really designed for a full coilover conversion, which I can't do.

[Ron Earp]

Still waiting for the cage to be finished up and that should be done next weekend. However, in the meantime Jeff G procured another ITS Mustang and it is in my garage being prepped for cage installation. Invasion of the domestics into ITS has begun.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffstang.jpg

Unfortunately it is exactly the same year and color - 1998 Ford FU, a dark green color. He's going to have the entire car repainted though. White or yellow are the current choices.

2012 might see three new Mustangs debuting in the NCR SCCA. Two ITS Mustangs and one ITR Mustang (V8, not V6). Should be interesting.

[CRallo]

LOVE it!! Keep up the good work!

[FLATKITTY]

Just a couple of pennies worth of thought here ... 1) The dead pedal is retained w/3 sheet metal screws. You might consider replacing them w/larger (grade 5) nuts & bolts; 2) The more weight you remove, the worse your F/R weight distribution becomes. Kind of a odd Catch 22 for prepping a race car. Factory spec (SN95 Mustang w/V6), based upon a weight of 3,071 lbs, is 56.4/43.6 (F/R). After removing everything from the trunk & interior (except the OE driver's seat, door panels & dash), the weight distribution was 59.1/40.9 (F/R) w/out driver. It will be interesting to see how much your roll cage will factor into this. Anyone looked at FIA approved carbon-fiber roll cages for IT? Maybe it can be approved along w/the requested C/F hood & fenders for the ITS Mustang. :D

[Matt93SE]

Or maybe they could just build a car that wasn't a nose-heavy pig. ;)

[Russ Myers]

Remember, they laughed at IT Volvos, too.

Russ

[Ron Earp]

You never know how it'll turn out unless you try. We're not sparing any effort in the build as I know if it doesn't work out for ITS it is really simple to move the car into a bunch of other SCCA or NASA classes. I like SN95s so it is a platform I can work with for years to come and be happy.

I'm hoping to have the car back with cage in the next week or so. I'll be interested to see how much weight we've added with the cage.

[Ron Earp]

Finally, a GOOD second stang has been acquired. False alarm on the other one. The tub was whacked so bad we completely stripped it for parts.

Now we have the Christmas duo, red and green.




http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang0.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Last weekend the green Mustang came back from Competition Cages with a nicely done roll cage. It is fairly minimalistic to cut back on some weight but still well-designed and safe. Yesterday Jeff Y and I painted the cage and it went well despite being only my third or fourth time using a spray gun for automotive work. We shot a two part lacquer on, a medium silver color, with the $15 HF gun.


Wiped everything down with lacquer thinner and used abrasive wire brushes to remove as much sound residue as possible.
Wiped everything dry.
Vacuumed the car.
Wiped all metal surfaces with oil/residue remover that we bought with the paint.
Sanded bare metal (cage) with 400 grit
Wiped the cage down again, did a bit of vacuuming
Let it dry in the sun and sprayed the inside at about 45 psi and somewhat of a medium coverage/pattern from the gun.


So now the real fun can begin. We've got a number of parts/projects that are inbound or sitting here waiting for work - engine, transmission rebuild, rear axle, shocks, roll bars, etc. and I suspect progress will be fairly repaid from here on out.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cage5.jpg


http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagepaint1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagepaint2.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagepaint3.jpg

I set the dash and seat in place just for pics, still much work to do on the firewall with wiring and the heater box. Man this car has a lot of room inside! You are far away from the door bars which is a good thing. I have a passenger seat for the car too in case my daughter gets interested in getting on track.

[SPiFF]

I spy with my little eye, something beginning with RaceTech ..... :happy204:

Looking good.

[billf]

Ron,

That thing looks soooooo good!!! Sorry to see that you placed te dash in for the photo shoot...I'd have liked to see the tubing you used behind the dash.

If I had seen this car before I bought the prospective ITR car, I'd still be working on a Mustang!!

keep up the good work!!!

Bill

[Ron Earp]

Ron,

That thing looks soooooo good!!! Sorry to see that you placed te dash in for the photo shoot...I'd have liked to see the tubing you used behind the dash.

If I had seen this car before I bought the prospective ITR car, I'd still be working on a Mustang!!

keep up the good work!!!

Bill


Thanks for the RaceTech suggestion Zsolt. I like that seat, very nice. Very.

The dash will be in and out lots over the next few weeks so I'll take some pictures of the area. I already put the gutted heater box back in and will be making a holder for the ECU off the roll cage.

It is coming along nicely. I'll weigh it once everything gets back in the car. I really think we'll hit 26XX lbs with driver and using the stock tank. About where the car should be classed if the engine performs like I think it should.

RE: comments on weight and CF - the hood is fiberglass and is a bit heavy at around 23 lbs, but the fenders are steel and as light as can be for steel pieces. No extra heft there.

Ron

[benspeed]

Keep the updates flowing, fantastic build. What do you expect the wear items will be? At 2700 ish that's pretty light so maybe brakes won't roast...

[Ron Earp]

Wear items? Now, you need to understand my point of reference as I don't view it as "what will wear on this Mustang" but more from the viewpoint of "what won't wear compared to my old Z".

This car has modern inventions like:

Vented rotors!
Large rotors!
Rear disc brakes!
EFI!

So that means no more rebuilding carbs, drum brake assemblies, or replacing pads every two races. For me that is a 100% bag of win.

With an OHV valve train and hydraulic lifters no more adjusting the valves - more time to relax, win!

Low RPM slightly over-square motor means low mean piston speed and less wear - less time swapping motors, win!

Solid axle with few moving parts and no joints means a long lived assembly - set it and forget it, win!

Seriously, I suspect front pads will be worn at a rate similar to other 2700 lbs ITS cars which will be manageable. But I do anticipate maintenance on the car should be substantially less than the Z.

[JLawton]

Wear items? Now, you need to understand my point of reference as I don't view it as "what will wear on this Mustang" but more from the viewpoint of "what won't wear compared to my old Z".

This car has modern inventions like:

Vented rotors!
Large rotors!
Rear disc brakes!
EFI!

So that means no more rebuilding carbs, drum brake assemblies, or replacing pads every two races. For me that is a 100% bag of win.

With an OHV valve train and hydraulic lifters no more adjusting the valves - more time to relax, win!

Low RPM slightly over-square motor means low mean piston speed and less wear - less time swapping motors, win!

Solid axle with few moving parts and no joints means a long lived assembly - set it and forget it, win!

Seriously, I suspect front pads will be worn at a rate similar to other 2700 lbs ITS cars which will be manageable. But I do anticipate maintenance on the car should be substantially less than the Z.

Hell, even if stuff wears it's gonna be cheaper than most of our other cars!! And easier to source! For the cost of them you could probably drive a running parts car to the track every weekend! ;)



.

[Ron Earp]

For the cost of them you could probably drive a running parts car to the track every weekend! ;)
.

Or use one nearby. Believe me, I've made note of how many SN95s are near VIR, CMP, and RRR. A very common car and I suspect that some of the observed examples could be had for a couple of Benjamins.

[Ron Earp]

Made a bit more progress last night. Fitted the dash about a hundred times and got a good bit of the factory harness back in place along with the heater box. The ECU is located in the stock housing and a-pillar location and the pared down wiring harness for that is installed put in place. The good news is the car fires right up just like stock, which it is except for all the disentanglement of non-essential systems that have been removed.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagedetailasmall.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagedetailbsmall.jpg

[benspeed]

Ron - I thought as much - so inexpensive to run.

Keep rockin on that project

[red986s]

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/cagepaint1.jpg


Really nice work! I spy the RCR! Another impressive ride!

[Ron Earp]

I'm away for some R&R and work but Mustang work continues. Stang number two is officially under construction with a 1996 red coupe being the donor.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang2start.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang2start2.jpg

Reports thus far indicate the car is sound and will be a good basis for Stripper Stang 2. We're hoping to get both of these rustangs out on track by March but it'll be a challenge for sure.

[Ron Earp]

More progress, stang2 is ready for a cage with all the floors being scraped up and the interior gutted.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang2start3.JPG

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang2start4.JPG

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stang2start5.JPG

and apparently my garage got a bit cluttered as well!

[FLATKITTY]

Ron ... It's been awhile since I have run IT, so a # of new rules have been written. However, my son is tearing apart his '96Mustang GTS for drag racing so I have had a chance to peek underneath. One thing that popped up was where do you plan on placing the now mandated towing eyes (GCR 9.3.48). Obviously, this rule came down thru the GT/Production classes where the full cage offers easy mounting for towing eyes. As IT cages don't run as far to the front/rear as a GT/Production car, where does one attach them? The Mustang bumper is your basic 2.5 mph crush bumper that is 'protected' by the bumper skin & about 6" of styrofoam. Forgetting that the design concept of these bumpers has no provision for pulling (only collapsing under impact), running an 'I' bolt long enough to reach from from the metal bumper to the front/rear of the vehicle would really create some damage if pulled the least little bit off center. I am not questioning the rule as I do understand why it was put into place, just the application of it as it applies to your Mustang (or any other IT car). Talk to me, Ron? :024:

[titanium]

I'll pop in on this one for Ron.
The bumper support is stronger that you think.
I have been using it as the anchor for my ISC Racing Tow hook since 2006 and it has been used on multiple occasions. :(
(I even use it to hook the cable to when I have to winch it on the trailer)
It may have a problem if your axle-deep in gravel, but they would most likely be pulling you out from the back at that point anyway.
http://www.iscracing.net/images/12_towhooks.jpg

http://www.titaniummotorsports.com/image/Race/daytonaMay2011_18.jpg

There is a zip-tie that keeps it tight to the bumper, and from blowing backwards.

[Ron Earp]

One thing that popped up was where do you plan on placing the now mandated towing eyes (GCR 9.3.48).

As you have observed, the Mustang doesn't have dedicated towing bosses/hooks. Mustangs don't break, crash, wreck, or die like imports do so there wasn't a need to include provisions for towing.

I think the bumper is strong enough for light towing duty. We planned on using nylon straps wrapped around the bumpers that would pull out 24" when hooked up and the zip tie was broken. The straps have 2" eyes that would protrude through holes cut in the bumper cover. In fact they are probably on my doorstep right now.

It isn't ideal but will meet the letter of the law and allow towing for offs that aren't in a berm or tree. If in a berm or tree I don't care if the bumper gets pulled left or right a bit. Other bad shit has occurred.

If metal tow points need to be used we'll use aluminum parts from:

http://www.racecartowhooks.com/

And mount them to the front of the bumper bolts.

[FLATKITTY]

Whoa ... Mongo like Titanium's pretty red tow straps. What is the OA length?

Ron, asuming that your straps did arrive today, how similar/different are yours from Titanium's?

[titanium]

It's about 10 inches overall.
Mike does not list the length on his website
http://www.iscracing.net/accessories.html

[titanium]

Ron, your car is coming along nicely.
My car, while not built as an IT car, may have some SN95 features that you can copy.
I do not know if you plan on reusing the stock tilt column setup, but I did see in your parts pile the metal dash structure that it bolts to.
I reused my stock column by cutting out its mounting structure and welding that to the cage crossbar behind the dash.

http://www.titaniummotorsports.com/image/Race/chassisbuild30.jpg

http://www.titaniummotorsports.com/image/Race/chassisbuild52.jpg

You can see all my build pictures on my website.
http://www.titaniummotorsports.com/image/Race/Race03.html

[Ron Earp]

Cool stuff with your cross bar, but we've got to use the stock steering column and supports. The tow straps I have are not 24" long like we thought, but very much like yours. A bit shorter although we've got an adjustment piece in there. Your car is looking good!!

We got a bit more done over the last few days. Fixed stang2's radiator support issue from some bozo hooking a tow rope up to it and about pulling the front end off. A bit of welding and metal fixed that right. The motor is finished up and shipping this week. Things are moving along.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/twins.jpg



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/fixing.jpg

[Ron Earp]

The stripper twins are off to get some serious exhaust work. Burns Stainless collectors, Burns speced exhaust, and some lightweight components.

http://gt40s.com/images/Mustang/strippertwins.jpg

[CRallo]

I like the way you guys take care of business! Looking good!

[Andy Bettencourt]

I like the way you guys take care of business! Looking good!

+1

[Steve35]

I'm really enjoying this build. Out of curiosity. What wheels are you going to use? I'll bet the factory ones are close to 20lbs each.

Steve

[Ron Earp]

We work a lot. Lots. Took apart a transmission last night and will be building one up tonight, as well as starting fab work on our traction bars.

The factory V6 Pony wheels weigh 15.1 lbs each. 15x7s, suitable for rains for sure.

We are going to use the Spinwerks wheels, 11.2 lbs each at $210 each. They are the only wheel we located in the 15"x7" five on 4.5" pattern that came in at that low of a weight. We did find lighter 15"x7" wheels, some in the high 9 lb range, but they required those blasted adapters since they aren't a native five on 4.5" pattern, thus driving the weight up and over the Spinwerks weight.

[Steve35]

Wow, 11.2lbs each? And that's not a terrible price.

[bhudson]

Looking forward to seeing these cars in 2012 - but only in a good way!

[Knestis]

It is SO going to confuse the crap outta people when these things are pretty good, too!

K

[Ron Earp]

It is SO going to confuse the crap outta people when these things are pretty good, too!

K

True that.

The project thus far has been a pleasure. The most perplexing thing to me is people who state "that car can't race in IT, it won't handle." or "that car won't have enough brake". There is much self-professed armchair lore about Mustangs in road racing that isn't worth a damn, but there is real knowledge out there about racing the cars if you pick up the phone or draft up some emails.

Yes, you can make a Fox/SN95 Mustang handle in IT-trim. There are entire businesses built around Mustang suspensions and parts are plenty. Yes, you can make power, competitive IT-power from a domestic engine as there are many builders who know their stuff. Jeff Young's car is the closest actively racing analog that I know of and I don't think anyone can argue with the results. The TR8 kicks ass. The Mustang might not be that good but it'll be fun and racable.

I'd say most people are extremely supportive but some of the long-time SCCA folks offer up some quizzical expressions when I tell them my new car isn't a Mazda, Honda, or Nissan.

[JeffYoung]

A car is a car is a car. Most can be made to race, and race well (well, not a Jensen-Healey).

These cars were planned out incredibly well. I have no doubt they will be competitive out of the box with really only suspension tuning keeping them from the front of the field and that will come. Quickly too since Jeff G. knows his stuff.

ITS next year is shaping up to be STRONG in the SEDiv. I know of an MX-5 (the 170 hp one) being built, plus Steve E.'s new RX7, Harold Corbin's new RX7, and these cars. You add that to me, Zsolt, Chuck Hines, Steve Parrish, Kent Thompson, Ron Munnerlyn's improved Miata, and others and you are going to have 15-20 car fields with 10 cars that can win.

Should be a blast.


True that.

The project thus far has been a pleasure. The most perplexing thing to me is people who state "that car can't race in IT, it won't handle." or "that car won't have enough brake". There is much self-professed armchair lore about Mustangs in road racing that isn't worth a damn, but there is real knowledge out there about racing the cars if you pick up the phone or draft up some emails.

Yes, you can make a Fox/SN95 Mustang handle in IT-trim. There are entire businesses built around Mustang suspensions and parts are plenty. Yes, you can make power, competitive IT-power from a domestic engine as there are many builders who know their stuff. Jeff Young's car is the closest actively racing analog that I know of and I don't think anyone can argue with the results. The TR8 kicks ass. The Mustang might not be that good but it'll be fun and racable.

I'd say most people are extremely supportive but some of the long-time SCCA folks offer up some quizzical expressions when I tell them my new car isn't a Mazda, Honda, or Nissan.

[cjb25hs]

A car is a car is a car. Most can be made to race, and race well (well, not a Jensen-Healey).

These cars were planned out incredibly well. I have no doubt they will be competitive out of the box with really only suspension tuning keeping them from the front of the field and that will come. Quickly too since Jeff G. knows his stuff.

ITS next year is shaping up to be STRONG in the SEDiv. I know of an MX-5 (the 170 hp one) being built, plus Steve E.'s new RX7, Harold Corbin's new RX7, and these cars. You add that to me, Zsolt, Chuck Hines, Steve Parrish, Kent Thompson, Ron Munnerlyn's improved Miata, and others and you are going to have 15-20 car fields with 10 cars that can win.

Should be a blast.

Plus my soon to be freshened ex travers tapper rx7.

[Ron Earp]

2012 is looking like a lot of fun. I know we've lost a few ITS racers in the SE but we've picked up a couple of news ones too. I'm excited and looking forward to being out in a new, somewhat modern race car.

Long day on Saturday in the garage that started around 8am. both Jeffs came over and despite around nine hours or so working out there about all we got done was the first T5 rebuilt and a bit of cosmetic dash work along with garage cleanup. I'm sure T5 rebuild #2 will proceed at a much faster rate.

I pickup the engine tomorrow and the rear end on Tuesday. I hope the exhaust gets finished up by Friday so that I can start the re-assembly work.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginedonesmall.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Got the motor home and uncrated, I like! good attention to detail and complete information down to part numbers for bolts, gaskets, etc. as well as all the important clearances and operational info. Obviously there is much work to be done on the motor with the front dress and all, but at least we've got a motor in house. Engine #2 for the second stang has been received and torn down already so I expect we'll have that one back in half the time of this one. Damn good chance we'll get both cars out for VIR in March. Might not be sorted, but I think the chances are high we'll at least run them.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginehoist.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/intake.jpg

[benspeed]

I will be coming out to VIR to see these beasts - I need to sort out my car so this will be a great opportunity to meet you folks and congratulate you on a great build and hopefully some congrats on admirable race results!

[Ron Earp]

I will be coming out to VIR to see these beasts - I need to sort out my car so this will be a great opportunity to meet you folks and congratulate you on a great build and hopefully some congrats on admirable race results!

Bring it. I love 968s, always have. Just as long as you aren't afraid of some domestics ruining the look of your run group.

Got some more parts in today, the Burns collectors displayed with the Christmas cookies. Now, I like what Burns does, no doubt, but their collectors are overpriced. Our local shop did a 90% accurate job of replicating the Burns collectors for that Z at about 1/6th the cost. Now that he has an actual set of Burns collectors I am certain he'll be able to duplicate them for a fraction of the cost.

We're going to run an experiment - one stang will get 100% Burns speced exhaust and Burns collectors, stang two is getting off the shelf long tube headers with knock off Burns collectors. Otherwise the two motors will be identical and we'll see where the chips fall.

Stang $2's wiring harness got pared down tonight so some actual work did occur.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/burns1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/burns2.jpg

[benspeed]

Looking forward to running with the Blue Ovals - whoever got to hating the domstics missed the fun of powering out of the corners with a little torque. Heck, my favorite car is still my ASA/GTA stocker - 450hp and 2550 dry - uber fun but nobody to race in that class. IT is where it rocks in the NE...

Save me a cookie...

[Racerlinn]

No cupcakes?

[Ron Earp]

No cupcakes.

Yeah, I hear you on larger engined cars. The thing is, the SCCA seems to be largely dominated by folks who grew up on imports and hating on domestics, or so it seems. I like both kinds of cars, Mustangs AND Camaros.

Stang two is now getting the homebrew Earp-ghetto exhaust. For a couple of benjamins we can put our TIG/MIG skills to work and make an exhaust. We're going to do that and compare the results with the superdooper Burns custom special. Turns out off the shelf long tubes (certain ones) are the same length as the fourth order harmonic for this engine, which isn't bad. The third order harmonic is typically used for best tq/hp but the fourth is good, so one my achieve decent results with $159 headers and some attention to detail on the collectors and post-header exhaust.

[Steve35]

Turns out off the shelf long tubes (certain ones) are the same length as the fourth order harmonic for this engine, which isn't bad. The third order harmonic is typically used for best tq/hp but the fourth is good, so one my achieve decent results with $159 headers and some attention to detail on the collectors and post-header exhaust.

Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

[JeffYoung]

Might get the terminology wrong but it is the length of the sine wave for the exhaust gas pulses.

If I remember correctly you want the length of the primariy to match one of these lengths. Stops feedback/backpressure.


Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

[lateapex911]

Ron,cage and interior look great. Nice job with the silver paint. Very sanitary looking.!
Enjoying the thread.

[Ron Earp]

Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

I can't do the mathematics any longer (maybe I can, but I haven't done any simple wave calculations in 20 years and I'm sure there is an engineer here that is more up on this than I am) but what you've got is oscillating pressure waves in your exhaust that depend on a variety of factors, but engine RPM (piston speed, gas velocity) & tube diameter are of importance to us. These pressure pulses can either help your exhaust scavenging or hurt it, and you can tune your header to help in the RPM ranges you wish.

The waves will be of various orders will have different tuning lengths based on the order, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., just like a open pipe resonance (flute), certain discrete values constructive interfere and other destructively interfere. For this engine the first and second order harmonics at the operating RPM are too long to be of practical use for a header primary, the third is fairly long, and the fourth order is shorter and very close to some off the shelf 3.8L long tube headers. That is why a couple of the 3.8L racers I've spoken with get pretty good results from a aftermarket long tube.


Ron,cage and interior look great. Nice job with the silver paint. Very sanitary looking.!
Enjoying the thread.

Thanks much. We've been working hard on these things as a lot of the work is behind the scenes and not shown, or done a couple of years ago while collecting data and amassing information.

[joeg]

Yes--I too very much enjoy car building threads.

Especially for Fords!!

[Steve35]

I'm a project car junkie... need... updates....need fix...help...:wacko:

[JeffYoung]

Tranny rebuilt. Cracked oil pan on the motor that was delivered last week, had to replace that. Old motor out of the car. Work started on fabbing the panhard and tri-link mounts. Steering rack rebushed. Plan of work for brake lines and ABS removal begun.

Ron may have gotten some pictures over the weekend. Car still looks great.

[Ron Earp]

There has been significant progress on the build but some of it is sort of behind the scenes.

The transmission was rebuilt and is ready to go. Ditto on the rear end. Old engine and transmission were both removed and the engine bay was cleaned up. Lots of parts gathering has taken place. Much thinking has gone into the rear end situation but no metal has been cut or fabbed up. Steering rack was rebuilt, all new parts there. Ditto on the power steering pump, water pump, and the engine was dressed out. All new injectors, and lots of other new parts.

As Jeff mentioned the oil pan was cracked during shipping and not immediately noticed. So, while the engine and tranny were assembled that had to come completely apart. And, the oil pan had to come off. Since the oil pan was off, and I pulled the front cover as the shop manual advised (don't do it, not needed), I went through and checked out the intake and valve train to see if it was as expected. It was. Bottom line is a lot of work was done for an oil pan replacement but all is well now.

Here are a few pictures.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/engine.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginefront.jpg



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginebay.jpg

Damn shame the front dress and harness really covers the motor up. It was nice and simple before all that crap went back on.

Everything takes time though, more time than you'd expect. Three hours tonight to dress the motor back out - chasing threads, prepping parts, messing with getting the right size injector o-rings, and so on to make sure it goes together correctly and will come apart if needed.

[SPiFF]

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginefront.jpg



Damn shame the front dress and harness really covers the motor up. It was nice and simple before all that crap went back on.

No kidding. Are you sure you got all the pulleys put on? Maybe you missed a few? http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif

[Matt93SE]

You might need an extension for the crank pulley- looks a bit short.

[Ron Earp]

No kidding. Are you sure you got all the pulleys put on? Maybe you missed a few? http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif

Sheeet, you'll be wanting to buy some pulleys from me when I motor by you on the back straight at VIR.

Seriously, the front dress is a mess. I'd like to lose the AC bracket on the left hand side of the motor but I don't see a way I could legally make the belt routing work once it was removed. And of course it sucks to have the dreaded power steering pump too, but that is legally required.

A lot of things I do like about the motor though - simple, high quality OEM harness, good fasteners, large displacement, low revving, and easy to work on. Oh, did I mention fuel injection, yeah, that is a new one to me. Very different from the Z motor, although the good ol Z motor works well, let's just say I'm looking forward to no more valve adjustments.

[shwah]

D.3.e. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

Seems that the relevant pullys/brakets/belt drive are a part of the whole of the AC system. If the car was delivered without AC from the factory, you are limited to that configuration. If it was not, I read that rule to let you remove the accessory drive part of the AC system. IISYCYBWC

[Ron Earp]

D.3.e. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

Seems that the relevant pullys/brakets/belt drive are a part of the whole of the AC system. If the car was delivered without AC from the factory, you are limited to that configuration. If it was not, I read that rule to let you remove the accessory drive part of the AC system. IISYCYBWC

I think I'm 100% legal in removing the AC compressor AND the bracket based on D.3.e as the year model Mustangs in question had AC as standard equipment. In fact, I think I'm 100% legal to remove the entire box on the inside of the car, but leave the heater core, because Ford refers to that box as the AC System. But, before people get up in arms over it I kept the entire box because I want a functioning defrost. Weight penalty was around 11 lbs.

But, while I think I am legal to remove the AC bracket once it is gone and its associated tensioner, the belt routing becomes impossible without adding additional idlers or tensioners elsewhere.

The water pump is a reverse rotation pump, that is, it turns in a direction opposite of engine rotation. It is driven back the backside of the belt and the pulley has no groves on it.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginebelt.jpg

[Ron Earp]

A few more hours of work last night resulted in the dash getting in, wiring harness tidied up, injectors re-installed, water pump off and measured, and a few other things.

Still have a bit of cosmetic work on the airbag cover on the dash but otherwise it looks pretty good. All stock gauges are functional and will be supplemented by a couple of mechanical gauges (oil P, water T) and one of the Aeroforce CAN bus reading gauges that will also have two analog inputs, wideband and oil pressure. The Aeroforce gauge can signal alerts based on threshold values and serve double duty as a warning light.

In fact, not only are the stock gauges functional but the other street required items are functional too - signals, lights, horn, etc. so we'll be keeping that street registration for engine break in and checking out problems over the years. An exhaust with cat will be fabbed to pass emissions when needed and the OBDII system is still functional since we're using the Ford computer.

Another milestone was passed a couple of weeks ago when we uploaded a program that I made using the SCT Advantage III software. The Ford HHU1 computers, which the 98 cars use, has been cracked and you have 100% access to all parameters in the ECU. For my first round of changes I disabled a lot of stuff we don't need like the passive theft system, EGR, secondary O2s, corrected for gear ratios, and so on and the program worked. I'm developing the second version now that will have modified timing and fueling curves and take advantage of some other really neat features built into the ECU.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashclose.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/pumps.jpg

[Ron Earp]

And yet more work accomplished. I think we've worked on the car/garage/components every day since the 26th. Going to need a night off.

Pressed bushing into the rear end and mocked it up at ride height. Also got x-y-z coordinates for all the suspension pickup points (was a day of work a couple of weeks ago) on the rear and fed them into our suspension simulation. The rear is a scary thing on this car, but with some careful considerations it can be made to work well. Bushings did well, panhard mounts mocked up too.

Also mounted the seat in the car to get a feel for how everything lines up. First off, this car is huge inside. Chris at Competition Cages did a great job of pushing the cage out to the outside dimensions of the car at every opportunity. Lots of room and that is a welcome change from the Z. Not for everyone I'm sure, but I like it. However, being a large car with a large interior volume, I look like a midget sitting in it. Lots of space for components and an extra seat if one wanted to use the car for DEs, track days, instruction, etc.

Up next will be spare motor dis-assembly and a lot of parts organization upstairs in the garage. We need to build some shelves and get stuff in their proper places. We've got so many parts of stairs - three subframes, axle, engine block, heads, hoods, fenders, doors, two complete Mustang suspensions, stacks of rotors, piles of calipers - the list goes on and on. We have an electric winch tied to a huge beam that we use to hoist up the heavy bits. At some point we need to say no to more parts.

Did some more work on the ECU programming so I could understand that. Man, coordinating all these tasking for building a new race car is a full time job. It is a lot of fun but it sucks up some time.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/ecutuning.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Lots accomplished on Saturday with the engine getting fully dressed and finished, one engine broken down and hoisted to the attic. We also did a big job in reversing the pulldown attic staircase so we could go upstairs with a car on the lift. Been dreading that job but it was only a couple of hours.

Mucho work done Sunday starting around 6am and finishing up in the afternoon. All brake lines fabbed, bias valve in, engine in, tranny in, and that was enough.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginein.jpg

Also helped my daughter on her science project, helped a neighbor fix a four wheeler, and grilled dinner. I'm bushed.

[Ron Earp]

Three hours of sitting around and looking at the rear. Not much accomplished. But a plan is formulating....

Excel sheet from johnny
http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mustangrear.xlsx

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/Snap1.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Quite a bit has happened over the last few days - lots of parts ordered, a plan for the rear put in motion, kill swtich wired up, air intake fitted, lots of wired tidied, PS pump plumbed and tested for leaks, Some bearings installed, tranny aligned, rear installed a few times, roll bars tested and checked, gauges plumbed, seat installed, and the main instrument panel cut and fitted.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginehookedup.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashprogress.jpg

[lateapex911]

Wow. I've been out of town and you've been at it!! Nice job!!
When you say "we", do you mean "jeff?"

[Ron Earp]

Wow. I've been out of town and you've been at it!! Nice job!!
When you say "we", do you mean "jeff?"

There are two Jeff's around the garage - Jeff Y whom you know and Jeff G who is building stang #2 in the same garage as mine. Jeff Y pops in and helps when he can, and Jeff G and I work on the cars about every night for a couple of hours and most all weekends. Jeff G lives in my neighborhood which makes it more practical than most situations. So yep, we means "Jeff".

Exhausts for the two cars are still not done, although car #2 does have a complete cage. I have some work travel for the next week thus there will be no updates, but Jeff G will be continuing with sub assemblies for his car. I've said it before but after spending four hours on the phone in the middle of a business day coordinating parts orders and so on I'll say it again, building a damn car is a full time job. Especially if you want it done correctly.

[lateapex911]

Yea, it's time consuming for sure. Smart play on the two for one deal!
Like your approach with the software for suspensions, etc.
I figured that was a lot of work for Young, since he's always in Amsterdam smoking pot....and stuff....
;)

[JeffYoung]

80,000 air miles last year....it was brutal.....

I help when I can, have maybe 40-50 hours in that car. Ron and Jeff G. probably have done that in a week before. Plus, they are the competition, and I have to get my car/trailer/shop in order to do battle with the Evil TwinMustang next year!

Seriously, just read Ron's post and he's dead on. No way I win the championship last year without those guys, and no way I ever get the car to where it is now without Ron. I built the car by myself and raced it by myself in 2003-04 and while I enjoyed it, it was overwhelming and never afforded me the opportunity to get better.

Having a group of guys sharing ideas and work loads is the only way to do this.


Yea, it's time consuming for sure. Smart play on the two for one deal!
Like your approach with the software for suspensions, etc.
I figured that was a lot of work for Young, since he's always in Amsterdam smoking pot....and stuff....
;)

[Ron Earp]

No Jeffs, no car. We all work together on each others cars and make sure that we'l all be present for the weekend's racing. Having friends around to help out with racing is essential. I don't know how you Lone Rangers find the strength to carry on. Racing is hard work.

[lateapex911]

I'm jealous of you dudes. First, you're all nice guys. Second, you are local to one another. And Rons pretty smart, so that's handy too!

I'm not very close to any of my buds. (and they're all FWD fanbois anyway! ;) )

[Russ Myers]

Evil twin Mustang. Does that make it an F-82 instead of 2 P-51's???

Russ

[Steve35]

Evil twin Mustang. Does that make it an F-82 instead of 2 P-51's???

Russ

Oh I like that!!!

http://www.strategic-air-command.com/aircraft/fighter/f82_twin_mustang.htm

[Mike Mackaman]

Man I am loving this thread! I am going into the shop tonight after my daughter goes to bed and finishe up the frame repair on the 260Z so I can get back out there this year. Haven't touched the car since late Sept. so it is missing me! Your thread really got me going. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see it on the track!

Mike

[Matt93SE]

No Jeffs, no car. We all work together on each others cars and make sure that we'l all be present for the weekend's racing. Having friends around to help out with racing is essential. I don't know how you Lone Rangers find the strength to carry on. Racing is hard work.

This Lone Ranger uses hard tires leftover from the last race, sometimes doesn't even take the car out of the trailer between races if I didn't break anything, has a crappy alignment, and finishes mid-pack.
But I'm out racing and that's what makes me happy. :)

[Ron Earp]

Man I am loving this thread! I am going into the shop tonight after my daughter goes to bed and finishe up the frame repair on the 260Z so I can get back out there this year. Haven't touched the car since late Sept. so it is missing me! Your thread really got me going. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see it on the track!

Mike

Great, a positive result from this thread then! Get that 260z out on track. Didn't see much 260 representation last year from you or I. But Ed has his 260z back up and running can use a 260z brother out on track with him.

I'm back in town for more Mustang work. Headers are done and car #2 is headed back to the Earp homestead. Plan is to paint the interior of Mustang #2 tomorrow as the temps are supposed to hit around 70F, perfect outdoor painting weather. Motor #2 is done also so I suspect we'll be really busy in the next six to seven weeks. I'll get more pics since car #2 is light on coverage here.

[Ron Earp]

Lots more work over the last few days: oil cooler mounted, blueprinted water pump on, hoses attached, sensors routed, and the dash panel is mocked up for fitment.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dash.jpg

Mr. Dave Brown is paying a visit this afternoon to learn us some suspension and rear end. And, he'll be taking a rear end to rebuild and put a 3.73 gear in with a spool so that we'll have a spare and something to test out.

Did find out that I have the clutch fork in wrong and the tranny will have to come out. Bummer. But better now than before the exhaust gets on.

[Ron]

Is that Dave Brown as in Dave Brown racing cars? That is quite a gift. That man has done a ton of work to make that car turn well.

[Ron]

Also, did you speak with Global West about the rear control arms?

[Ron Earp]

Hey Ron,

I appreciate all the tips you've given us with the car. You guys have a fast Mustang and there isn't anything fundamentally different between yours and these save the engine. I'm still playing phone tag with Global West but I ahve sourced some spherical bearings for half the rear arms, the small end is available for $25 each!

Dave Brown as in Charlotte Dave Brown, used to work with some IMSA cars, NASCAR teams, AS guys, and most recently tends to some SRF's for a group of guys. I think there is another Dave Brown, working around Winston Salem maybe, that you're thinking of? I've heard he is really good. Either way, Dave Brown who we're working with really knows his stuff with the stangs and had a lot of wonderful ideas. He dropped off one axle and picked up another to rebuild, this second one being done with a shorter gear and a spool. The spool knocks a ton of weight off the rear end when compared to the TruTrac or clutch pack.

Got a lot more done today. Put the TIG and MIG to work fixing the floor up from the driver's seat installation. The floor of a Mustang is the most convoluted piece of sheet steel I've seen in a car, the result of which the seat installation requires hacking a section out and replacing it with something you can bolt a seat to. Otherwise the seat ends up about 4" off the floor and tilted way back. Fortunately it is all good now but the end result is a bit heavier than just a stock floor pan, but that is the price to pay to have the seat securely mounted.

[Matt93SE]

Ron, what's your opinion of handling on a spool vs. a clutch pack or a helical?
My car has IRS, but I'm too cheap to buy a clutch type diff. I'm considering welding one of my old open diffs up, but want to decide if it's worth the hassles before I do..

[Ron Earp]

Ron, what's your opinion of handling on a spool vs. a clutch pack or a helical?
My car has IRS, but I'm too cheap to buy a clutch type diff. I'm considering welding one of my old open diffs up, but want to decide if it's worth the hassles before I do..

I'm no expert on diff setups. Far from one. I raced my Z for 1.5 years with a locked clutch pack. Locked, as in our torque wrench gave out at 275 lbs and it wouldn't budge. So, it was effectively welded. I also had a 3.56 ratio in the Z that was really welded and both of these rear ends acted the same.

Pros:

*Had great rear traction. Mat the gas and go.
*Very predictable, you knew it'd stick
*When the front bar was set to work with it all was good
*Won't break (real welded/spool/locker that is)

Cons:
*Was a bitch to push around in the paddock. Don't underestimate how often you move your car via pushing it.
*Undoubtedly, a welded diff has to suck some hp in turns or anywhere except going absolutely straight.
*Turn in isn't as sharp as with a clutch pak or torsen (ran both of these too).

If you are running an open diff now and have nothing else then certainly weld one up. I don't know FWD though, so don't have a clue if this is a good idea or not.

I'm going to try a welded in the stang, although not for the first iteration. Dave says I'll like it and I haven't found anything he's been wrong on yet.

[Matt93SE]

My car is RWD. Think a more modern version of your Z. rear suspension is a bit better, but front is still a McStrut.
I have a dead/dying VLSD with a 4.08, and a helical with a 4.6. The 4.6 is too short for just about everything around here, so I use the 4.08 everywhere I currently race.
I have a couple spare open 4.08s just sitting in the garage, so I figured I'd try to weld it up and see what happens. can't hurt, right? :)
The problem is limited track/testing time on my budget. Had I known I was going to go 3 sec/lap slower with the 4.6 rear diff, I wouldn't have spent the money on it. Hoping to not make that mistake again!

[Ron Earp]

My car is RWD. Think a more modern version of your Z. rear suspension is a bit better, but front is still a McStrut.
I have a dead/dying VLSD with a 4.08, and a helical with a 4.6. The 4.6 is too short for just about everything around here, so I use the 4.08 everywhere I currently race.
I have a couple spare open 4.08s just sitting in the garage, so I figured I'd try to weld it up and see what happens. can't hurt, right? :)
The problem is limited track/testing time on my budget. Had I known I was going to go 3 sec/lap slower with the 4.6 rear diff, I wouldn't have spent the money on it. Hoping to not make that mistake again!


Ooops, sorry about that. I know about 240sxs but I got you mixed up with my domestic brother here with the Saturn. Both of you have red car icons for avatars.

I think you'll enjoy the welded. Give it awhirl, pretty easy to do and swap out if you don't like it.

[Ron]

our early rear ends were welded and they were easy to drive, in the dry. We went to a geared limited slip and the car was very easy to drive mid corner throttle changes and corner exits were so easy. Like I told you Ron I have not spun our car in years. It always seemed that I could catch it before it went around.

[Ron Earp]

All the cage and header work is done, finally. Pimpin headers are headed off to JetHot to get coated up. Burns collectors, stepped pipes, great port transitions into the primaries. At Burns' recommendation we went for a straighter primary instead of bending to make them exactly equal length. The difference is very slight in length but it is there.

More inbound packages for suspension and other parts are coming today and tomorrow so this weekend will be a busy one. I'm hoping that the majority of the green car will be built in a few long work day sessions.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/primary.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/headers.jpg

[Matt93SE]

Purdy!!
That exhaust prolly cost more than my whole car......

[Ron Earp]

Purdy!!
That exhaust prolly cost more than my whole car......

Unfortunately it might be pricey! I haven't paid for them yet as they're bundled in with Jeff G's header work. I expect the bill will be expensive. On the other hand, R&J always do a great job, exactly what you ask for, and generally get it done on time.

[Ron Earp]

Whoa what a marathon work session we had today! Jeff G and I went at it pretty hard and got much work accomplished. His car just came back from the welding shop from headers and a cage so we prepped it up for interior paint. We used the same paint as on the green car and I have to say it came out pretty good all things considered. Painting isn't that difficult and after doing two interiors I think that I could do an exterior job pretty easily. A nice 65F day here in NC didn't hurt.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffpainted1.jpg

We also received most of our rear end setup and trial fitted it. We have much work to do on the rear but at least it is coming together and we now know where we've got to go with it. Forward links off the axle, axle mounts, and panhard rod. Seems like it'll work out pretty well.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/rearfit1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/rearfit2.jpg

Jeff's race motor is done and should arrive this week. Got to get he old stuff out and in with the new. Still a long road to go to have these two on track but we're making progress.

[Ron Earp]

Got a bit more stang work done today with sorting out rear spings and perches. However, most of the time was spent on the T70. I've got a fellow flying in from CA that is looking to buy it so it needed to come out of storage and get checked over. In order to make room we've got a stack of stangs in the garage that will impede Mustang work for a few days. Hopefully the T70 will find a new home and free up some cash/time for other projects.

R

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/stangstack.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/sydwithlola.jpg


http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/frontcage.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/rearcage2.jpg

[evanwebb]

Why? Why do you torture us with no update?

[lateapex911]

interior looks sweet! Love that silver! Is the drivers floor modded for a seat?

[Ron Earp]

interior looks sweet! Love that silver! Is the drivers floor modded for a seat?

No. It is cut out so that we can fit ten bags of fine Columbian to the right of the driver.


Why? Why do you torture us with no update?

I figured folks didn’t have much interest so stopped updating.

A lot has happened in the last few weeks. Jeff’s car is back and the engine is back from the builder. We put the engine in last week and Jeff and Jeff installed the tranny and rear axle.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffengineincar.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffgrinding.jpg

Jeff G has been taking a lot of vacation since his company is forcing him to do so, therefore he's getting a lot done on week days.

Last weekend I plumbed the entire car for new brake lines (did mine a few weeks ago) and rigged up a nice proportioning valve in the cockpit.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/brakevalve.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Most of our work over the last few weeks has focused on the rear suspension. We have finally settled on some proper spring spacers from the roundy round world and fabbed them up into our control arms. Nicely adjustable pieces with spring detents and they don't add much weight. Actually it is a wash since they use shorter springs.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/springperch.jpg

That picture above sort of shows the detail, this one might do better.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/rearunder.jpg

And quite naturally we've been taking extensive use of the rear axle language that allows the addition of a panhard rod and addition or substitution of traction arms. We're pretty happy with the rear ride height and adjustability now, particularly with the ability to easily adjust pinon angle. Pinon angle adjustment is critical and can be 1-3% of your horsepower out the window if incorrect. Given that about the only advantage we have with this car is 3.9L of unbalanced mean V6 with good power potential we can't squander our sole advantage.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffrear.jpg

So both cars have rear suspensions under them, engines installed, and various stages of prep work on the inside.

[Ron Earp]

We've started on the front suspension as well. Actually, we have tons of parts around - perches, bearings, bushings, struts, shocks, and springs, we just haven't finished all the installations.

We've got some cool hollow sway bars for the front that are very adjustable and knock some weight off as well. This picture shows the mounting point on the frame for the bar that was welding on this weekend.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/swaybarmount.jpg

And this one shows the bar.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/swaybar.jpg

We've started prepping the front arms and getting ready to mount everything for the front suspension installation.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/arm.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffsuspensionsetup.jpg

[Ron Earp]

And, both cars have exhausts. Jeff's was on the car, mine is just back from the ceramic coating process. The exhausts are not identical and I've already got some changes in mind for mine, but I think they'll both be pretty good examples. Mine is all "burnsed up" with their collectors and design. I suspect Jeff G's is going to be just as effective at half the cost. In the end though mine didn't cost as much as I thought it might. R&J Welding in Apex NC did a great job on the fabrication and provided a 20% racer discount. Gotta like that.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/earpexhaustcoated.jpg

I'll wrap mine up and and install it on the car.

Time will be short this weekend though as I'm proud to say my daughter won first place in the 5th grade science fair at her school and has been invited to the state competition this coming Saturday. Be a nice break from car work.

[lateapex911]

Good update Ron. I've been reading along, but not commenting too much. I do have a question. Not to be a jerk, but I'm confused on the sprig perch stuff. Springs are free, so you can do anything you want there, like spacers, adjusters, etc. But wholesale replacement of the perches?? I didn't think you could do that, Can you shed some light on what I'm missing?
thanks. BTW, I can only dream of building a car like you are...the right way,

[Ron Earp]

Good update Ron. I've been reading along, but not commenting too much. I do have a question. Not to be a jerk, but I'm confused on the sprig perch stuff. Springs are free, so you can do anything you want there, like spacers, adjusters, etc. But wholesale replacement of the perches?? I didn't think you could do that, Can you shed some light on what I'm missing?
thanks. BTW, I can only dream of building a car like you are...the right way,

5.3.b.


Spacers, including threaded units with adjustable spring
seats, may be used with coil springs.

We have coil springs. We're using spacers, spacers with threaded units and adjustable spring seats. The car has coil springs at each corner so I read this rule to mean that each corner can have an adjustable spacer. The original perches are there. However, there is going to be a spacer on the perch on a threaded rod. Sits right on top of the perch in fact.

The net result is we gain some weight, about 2-3 lbs per corner realistically, but we gain the ability to actually corner weight the car without using shims under the spring by using an adjustable spacer.

[lateapex911]

Yea, I used those on my car. I thought you had replaced the stock perches or something craaaaazy like that.

[Ron Earp]

I know that some of the ITB Mustangers use them. I think they are legal and will stand a protest should it come to that. If I'm wrong then so be it, we go back to using shims under the springs.

Getting suspension parts from roundy round places is an education.

Me: What length 1000 lb springs 5" OD do you have in stock that are flat ground on both ends?

Them: We sell front springs and rear springs. Which do you want?

Me: Well, on your website you've got a picture of a spring that is squared off on both ends. That's flat ground. I want it that way on both ends.

Them: Where are you puttin' them springs, on da front of the car or back?

Me: Look, I'm a road racer and I'm putting the springs on the front of the car but....

Them: Then you needs front springs. We has got 10.5" and 8" 1000 lb springs on the shelf. How many do you want?

And so on. Eventually we learn that REAR springs are flat ground on both ends, while FRONT springs are flat on one side. This company wasn't happy with me buying REAR springs to go on the front of the car, but since I was paying they compromised their principles.

Once the preliminary work was out of the way the beauty of the situation emerges - you can get coils springs in about any pound rate you want between $40 to $65. New. On the shelf, available now. Spring dyno checked and guaranteed to be the rate specified or they'll replace them. Used they can be had for as little as $50 for a BOX of springs from a local racer. Here are a couple of sources:

http://www.webpage-design.biz/bluecoil/index2.htm

http://www.landrumspring.com/main.html

Both family owned and nice folks. I got rears from these guys, fronts came from another company, I think AFCO or coilsprings.com.

Some aspects of this Mustang development have not been inexpensive, but mainly with time. However one underlying truth is always present - once you find out what you're going to use the parts are cheap.

[Racerlinn]

Keep it coming Doc, we're all following along in a state of jealousy...

[Robbie]

Indeed. This is one of the best threads on this site. Continue bringing the updates!

[Steve35]

Indeed. This is one of the best threads on this site. Continue bringing the updates!


I agree please update whenever possible. Make it a book and I'll buy it!

Steve Coe

[CRallo]

This


Keep it coming Doc, we're all following along in a state of jealousy...

[Ron Earp]

I agree please update whenever possible. Make it a book and I'll buy it!

Steve Coe

Heck, I didn't think all you import drivers would give a rat's ass. Anyhow, a book probably wouldn't be that helpful as much of the real info is missing. It's a build thread, but not a how to thread. On surface I thought the Mustang would be a simple car to build and that most things would be straight forward, but that hasn't been the case on many of the sub-assemblies.

There was a ton of learning to do on the engine as Ford had a lot of minor mid-year changes from 1994-1998. 1998s are even more complicated as it is a transition year that actually has some unique parts, and some shared parts with 99-04. These nuances are important when you're trying to extract maximum power form the engine. And we haven't even tuned one up yet.

The chassis/suspension is another area that requires some forethought, as does the cage structure and attachment points. Some things that seem normal to do might not work out so well for the Mustang.

But on the whole it'll be a simple car to maintain. Its easy to work on, uses inexpensive components, and everything for the car is readily available now and probably will be for the next 50 years.

[benspeed]

My favorite thread - Heck! I even had the interior of the 968 painted silver because I like yours so much :-) Gets back from the shop on Saturday hopefully

[Steve35]

Heck, I didn't think all you import drivers would give a rat's ass. Anyhow, a book probably wouldn't be that helpful as much of the real info is missing. It's a build thread, but not a how to thread.

I love race cars, I don't care if its' a Pinto, Porsche, Miata or Mustang. I love "project cars" and you write very well and are entertaining.
Add the references and your reasoning to build, and go. The book will be a "How I did it" not a "How To".
My buddy Kurt built a Honda powered Mini and sold a few books on the build. http://kimini.com/Reference/index.html

Keep up the great work!

Steve Coe

[Ron Earp]

I love race cars, I don't care if its' a Pinto, Porsche, Miata or Mustang. I love "project cars" and you write very well and are entertaining.
Add the references and your reasoning to build, and go. The book will be a "How I did it" not a "How To".
My buddy Kurt built a Honda powered Mini and sold a few books on the build. http://kimini.com/Reference/index.html

Keep up the great work!

Steve Coe

In general I'm the same way. I like race cars. If it is unique, cool, and races I'm okay with it. Even some of the FWD Honduhs.

I do think the SCCA is import heavy and there are certainly some industry reasons why this is the case. But, on the other hand, we're going to give it an honest college boy try in maybe changing that a tiny bit, at least in the localized region where we race.

A pioneer in the SE ITS region is Jeff Young. He's taken a large-displacement-chassis challenged car with horrible brakes (worse than any stang or Camaro) and with good driving has turned it into a winner. Maybe his efforts, and efforts showing cars like this can be competitive, will get more folks to consider the domestic options. I'd love to see some of these cars in ITS and ITR.

Nice job on the book, you're far more industrious than I am!.

[Ron]

It took us a while to sort out the Mustang. But you are correct, once you have the big things figured out it is cheap. Of course I have two big shelves full of stuff we built and tried that did not work. Sway bars, panard bars, bushings, cut up shocks, engines, bent pieces that I should have never tried etc..

[Ron Earp]

It took us a while to sort out the Mustang. But you are correct, once you have the big things figured out it is cheap. Of course I have two big shelves full of stuff we built and tried that did not work. Sway bars, panard bars, bushings, cut up shocks, engines, bent pieces that I should have never tried etc..

We've got the same. Right now we have a pile of bushings we're not going to use and two panard rods. And of course, we're no where near as far on the development as you are......

[lateapex911]

Pffft, I have a similar shelf. And I race a "known" vehicle.

[Ron Earp]

I haven't been much help as of late, but Jeff G has been moving right along on the suspension side of the builds. Four front lower control arms have been prepped with adjustable spring spacers and some really nice bushings have been installed in the arms which are a combination aluminum/plastic/steel unit with grease fitting and lubrication channels. A lot of work went into these pieces, not to mention some cash as well.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/armsonfloor.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/armonground.jpg

The arms mounted up well and with the various bushings and adjustments afforded to us I think we'll be able to make the front suspension work pretty well. Installation of the arms worked out and we've got them all bolted up with the Konis along with rotors and calipers. I'm really liking these brakes. I know most of you readers won't think much of them, but coming from a Z car and having spent a lot of time working on a TR8's braking system, these things look pretty good!

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/armoncar.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/frontarmcomplete.jpg

[Ron Earp]

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/springonground.jpg

Springs have been a bit of a pain in the ass. I believe we've got the correct length front springs ordered now and they should arrive later this week. The stock Mustang springs are very large when compared to the proper length (about 1" too long actually) race spring. We'll be starting out with some 1000 lbs front springs, 5"x8", and 500 lb rear springs, 5"x8.5". Before you pass judgement on those rates you've got to consider the motion ratio of the Mustang suspension. I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head but what it boils down to is the wheel rate is lower than these values and we are probably going to need to swap out these springs for sure. But I think they'll be good for a starting place and at $40-$50 a spring you can't go wrong.

A couple of more front pictures showing some detail of the arm.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/armperch.jpg

And of course, the rear is never left out of the work. We were most concerned with getting the rear sorted out and I think we're to the point now where we feel the rear is going to work pretty well. Quite well in fact. Many hours were spent over the last few days aligning the rear, adjusting the pinon angle, and making the springs and spacers all line up correctly.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/armprep.jpg

But, line up correctly it did and we've got the proper rear springs now and the brakes mounted up on the axle as well as the correct wheel spacers. We got word that sixteen race wheels are on the way to us and we're looking forward to trying those out.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/reararmcomplete.jpg

Still have yet to mount the Konis on the rear. We've got a shock back ordered for the rear.

[Ron]

Your setup is an improvement to ours. Hope my thoughts helped. Did i give you the proper spring length? and are those front bushings from that company I told you about?

[Knestis]

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/springonground.jpg



Looks to me like you got rear springs in the front there, son.

K

[Ron Earp]

Hey Ron,

Your info helps tons! I think our springs come out to be different lengths than yours because of the adjustable spacer setup is different. But, they are probably close.

We got more done today with the exhaust and fixing a spark plug hole that we thought was fookered and would require engine removal. With the plug I put some rope down into the cylinder that was soaked with oil. Then we chased the threads with a tapper, being careful with any chips of metal. Then pulled the rope out through the hole and the oil soaked rope did its job and made sure to catch any pieces and clean the threads up on the way out.

Here are a few pics from today.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/headerandplate.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/wrappedfromunderneath.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffsystem.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/wrapping.jpg

[RacerBowie]

Why are you using header wrap?

[JLawton]

I would have thought the American Sedan guys would have figured this stuff out already, no?

I would love to build one of these bad boys but have neither the time or energy. I'll have to wait until you guys decide to sell them and move on to the next project! :) Then I'll hit the easy button!

[Ron Earp]

Why are you using header wrap?

I find it reduces under hood temperatures better than the ceramic coating alone and if keeps you from getting burned badly if you're working around the headers. The fellow at Jet Hot in Burlington agreed with me and wraps his ceramic coated race exhaust too. Actually, my exhaust is ceramic coated and Jeff's isn't. I have no data that would indicate it produces more power, but I know from working with the Lola the wrap definitely lowers temps and reduces those burns.


I would have thought the American Sedan guys would have figured this stuff out already, no?


We got some ideas from the AS cars for sure since the cars are similar. But, no, AS guys haven't figured everything out, at least not with IT issues in mind. They have this stuff figured out for 3300+ lbs cars with 400 hp and not a huge concern for weight in the way that we are, i.e., we'll never make spec weight.

Time and energy - this car is consuming a lot of that. Money too, although to a lesser extent.



Looks to me like you got rear springs in the front there, son.

K

True that! I'll tell what, in my limited experience with buying roundy round parts for this car I have noticed that they are inexpensive and of high quality. Brackets, perches, joints, springs, and so on are extremely well made and probably 1/5th of what they'd cost if Pegasus or other traditional road racing outlets sold them. A roundy round outfit needs to make fuel cells and give ATL etc. a run for their money.

[Ron Earp]

Very frustrating day. We learned Jeff's headers were fouling on the steering column so we had to remove them, and the entire exhaust, and fix the issue.

Also learned that the 98 radiator we have didn't fit his 96 chassis, so we had to make modifications there. And Lots more modifications on fitting up a 98+ fuel tank with proper flowing pump to his 96 chassis. Those considering builds take note - there are many, many little differences with some critical components across the 94-98 years. On paper there appear to be none, but when you get down to building a car they emerge and they are important.

[lateapex911]

Super impressive Ron. Look forward to seeing shots of the rear suspension solutions when it's done.

[ITA_honda]

Ive been following this thread since it originated. Very nice build! :D

[CRallo]

impressive... most impressive...

[Ron Earp]

What a day. Jeff G and I started up around 830 and didn't knock off until after 6pm. Main tasks were fabricating more lower control arms as the geometry of the ones we made last week didn't work out so well at ride height and with any sort of normal springs we had available. So, the front of the red car had to be taken apart.
http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/frontaprta.jpg

After much time measuring, cutting, fabricating, and grinding I think we've got two pairs of arms that have good geometry for the spring and will take a spring in the 9-9.5" range. Heck, I know it doesn't look like we did much but we're beat. The problem with the original arms we doctored is that we should have angled the adjustable threaded portion in a little to point toward the top perch at ride height. The Mustang in street trim uses a super long and soft spring that they simply allow to curve, something you don't want in a race car.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/weldingnewarms.jpg

We also tried fitting up some brake ducts that we bought which were "race proven" and "guaranteed to fit". They don't. We had to cut those up and once the TIG is repaired we'll stitch the pieces back together they way they should be. Kenny Brown ducts don't fit for squat on a 94-98 V6 car, despite what they claim. They foul the caliper and are clearly made for a larger brake rotor. But, we'll make them fit.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/nonfittingducts.jpg


Super impressive Ron. Look forward to seeing shots of the rear suspension solutions when it's done.

It is done. But we charge admission for some views!

[Ron Earp]

There are also a bunch of Mr. Young's TR8 parts lying around the garage, including brake rotors on spindles. I trotted a Mustang rotor over to it for comparison - wow! Mr. Young makes the TR8 rotors work, which are 9" in diameter, non-vented you can see how the thickness of his rotor isn't even as thick as one side of the Mustang rotor.

So all you boys complaining about bad brakes or components say no more. I don't there there is a worse setup in ITS, but Mr. Young gets them to function. Attention to detail, and a lot of trial and error, is key. And no, the TR8 isn't very light as it races around 2700 lbs with driver.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/jeffrotor.jpg

[lateapex911]

Sorry, Ron, I'm confused. You seem to be saying that you're showing a TR8 disc compared to yours, but I see nothing resembling a disc in that picture. Just some rusty something or other.....

[Ron Earp]

Yeah, that little rusty pie tin there attached to the hub. That is the brake disc.

One thing is for sure - the entire TR8 front end, struts, sub-frame, arms, discs, etc. weight only a fraction of what the Mustang front suspension weighs. Probably around 1/4 to 1/3 as much. Something to be said for minimal weight components that still get the job done.

[lateapex911]

Yeah, that little rusty pie tin there attached to the hub. That is the brake disc.

One thing is for sure - the entire TR8 front end, struts, sub-frame, arms, discs, etc. weight only a fraction of what the Mustang front suspension weighs. Probably around 1/4 to 1/3 as much. Something to be said for minimal weight components that still get the job done.

Kinda like Honda does it... ;)

[Ron Earp]

Kinda like Honda does it... ;)

On the other hand, Honda doesn't have a chassis that supported 88hp to 390hp engines in a production car - oh, wait, Honda hasn't ever had a 390hp engine in a production car. My bad.

[lateapex911]

On the other hand, Honda doesn't have a chassis that supported 88hp to 390hp engines in a production car - oh, wait, Honda hasn't ever had a 390hp engine in a production car. My bad.

they didn't NEED a 390 hp engine. Their chassis and componentry were elegantly engineered and carried no excessive weight.
;)

[JeffYoung]

Honda skimped out on the motor thought....

That's actually a TR7 brake disc, slightly smaller diamteter but you get the picture.

Ron, I will try to get by this week and get that stuff out of your garage. Last week/weekend got crazy.

Sorr you guys had so much trouble this weekend. I'm pretty much tied up on my car this week and net finishing it for VIR. Hopefully it will just need brakes for CMP and I can help you guys make the push for the test day at CMP.

[Ron Earp]

The front isn't all bolted together yet, but the spring geometry is much better. Now the perch sits on the pin cocked at an angle and directly points at the upper perch.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/muchbetter.jpg

Furthermore, the new threaded inserts allow the use of a locking nut on the adjustment pin which improves the strength of the system. We do need slightly longer pins for good adjustment, but only 2" longer and it is only a $13 part.

Good news is that the original springs that I thought could not be used at ride height can be used, yay.

[Ron Earp]

Recent dyno plot I picked up from another dyno operator that had done some Ford 3.8L V6 work. This engine hasn't been opened and had some long tube headers, cold air intake, minimal mufflers but still cats, and some timing / fuel work. Not too shabby. 219 ft-lbs of torque and 148 hp, Dynojet at the wheels.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dynowithcaiheaderstiming.jpg

The torque curve rolls off fast thus the power takes a hit, but, I believe that with some serious header work plus all the normal IT-go-fast stuff we do we can get the torque curve to hang on longer and boost that power number. The torque and low-end power is clearly sufficient, the top 1000 RPM is where it needs a lot of work.

[lateapex911]

revs? Thing hasn't even done the 5250 cross yet!

[Ron Earp]

No, it hasn't. Been sitting on that one awhile actually. The hp peaks around 4100-4200 RPM. But I think we can shift that and designed our system to do just that. Mr. Young's TR8 was of similar output and RPM peaks way back in the day (maybe six years ago). I think some of the early dyno plots with it were peaking at 4XXX and the torque peak was on the way down at 3000 RPM.

I started researching these Mustangs in 2005/2006 and you'll find old posts of mine on Mustang forums during that time. I laid off it as I got convinced they'd never make the needed power, mainly due to the typically "Ford think" around the engine that convinced me they couldn't do the job. I picked it back up again in 08/09, bought a Mustang in early 2010 for ITR, sold that one based on a bunch of information I'd accumulated, did a bunch more research in 2010, and bought another Mustang in 2011. Here we are.

I still might not be doing the "right" thing building the car, but my research shows it has a legitimate shot. Ironically, the issue I thought I'd have, making enough power, isn't what I'm worried about now. I'm pretty sure we'll have the other heavy hitters in S covered with power and torque - 240/260/280Z, RX7, 240sx, 325, and on par with the TR8. I'm concerned about handling, mainly balance and turn in as well as front suspension travel. I feel the rear will be an advantage compared to many S cars, but the front, nope, not so much. It is an interesting experiment and one I hope doesn't end badly.

It fits with my theory though that I think others have also used, so it really isn't mine: get the largest lowest specific output engine in the class and build that car. Based on experience with other non-racing car activities and intimate hands-on work with the TR8 I'm convinced these engines, which are typically two valve large displacement low revving designs, are "growers, not showers", and have the best chance of seeing large gains in IT trim. For ITS that means the TR8, 300Z, and Mustang, and maybe the 280Z. These are the largest motors in the class with relatively low outputs. If I were a NISMO man still I'd be on the 300Z. I don't think I've seen even a 90% effort on one of these engines and suspect it could do really well with the open ECU rule, ditto the 280Z.

Incidentally, the rule seems to be what Andy and them have dopted in ITR with the Corvette, no?

[Ron Earp]

Good news, Ron's arms are done and wheels are here.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/wheelarrive.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/ronsarms.jpg

The Spinwerks wheels come in at 11.2 lbs on the certified scale, exactly as advertised. Sixteen of them all told. I think they've got the best deal going for a light wheel at an "affordable" price.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/wheelweight.jpg

[Ron]

Stop copying me. Large displacement (2.3 L in ITB) motor that has possible big IT gains. Alomst the same suspension setups, and now the same wheels.
People are going to think we are dating or something!

[Ron Earp]

You run Spinwerks too? I used to run them on my Z as well. Good wheels. Yep, find big motor with low specific output and build it. A lot of stuff can be forgiven with enough horsepower.

[Ron]

Yes our bolt pattern (4x108) is tough to come by. They are great to work with, any offset you want, light, strong.

[MSPERBER]

Ford stuff is so weird, 2.3 liter but mine is front wheel drive, with the same bolt pattern but front wheel drive offset and I am in ITA at a very heavy 2680. It still is fun developing a new car but I am no where near as capable as what is being shown in this post. My goal was to run what I sell, Fords should be all over IT, 2.3 in ITB,ITA, and ITS . Maybe Ford is the new Mazda:)

[Ron Earp]

Ford brothers unite! We need to have more domestic terror out on the track. I'm hoping some of our long lost GM brothers will join us in IT as well.

You guys interested in taking a F250 in on trade for a new F150 Ecoboost?

[Ron Earp]

More work work work work.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/swaybarfit.jpg

Still haven't got the swaybar mount situation correct but we're a lot closer. I think with one more iteration of spot welding the pads on the chassis we'll get the distance correct, the lever ratio we want, and get it to function. Might require a bit of tweaking on the arms but we're close.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/fitupclose.jpg

You can see where we've got about one more place to try there on the chassis where we haven't welded to it yet.

Clearly, we're not bringing the cars to VIR. CMP at the end of March is really iffy, but RRR in April is fairly solid at this point, although motors are yet to be started, tuned, and of course problems will arise there as well.

[JeffYoung]

I can help post VIR.

I'd suggest pushing on one to get it ready for CMP, take it down and split the test day and the SARRC.

CMP is a great place to test and RRR is a long way to go to fail.

[Ron Earp]

Won't ever turn down help, but we're entering that slow phase of lots of fabrication. Hopefully we'll be out of it soon, maybe by the end of this weekend. One thing we've got to do is build shelves upstairs. The Kingdom of Mustang is overflowing with parts and there is no method to the organization. That drives OCD Ron crazy.

[chuck baader]

Ron, I sure would like to see that sway bar rod end in double shear...easily done on the bottom of the frame rail. Chuck

[Ron Earp]

Ron, I sure would like to see that sway bar rod end in double shear...easily done on the bottom of the frame rail. Chuck

Oh there are lots of things I might like to see or change, but finite analysis showed it was plenty strong. That is a 5/8" rod end and accompanying G8 fasteners.

[lateapex911]

yea, thats interesting, Ron. To my eye, I went "Huh? That looks like its gonna fail". But, I know you ARE an engineer, and I am NOT. So yea, very interesting.

I always assumed the pivot point was the bar center. It would have never even occurred to me to do it the way you're doing it. I'm impressed! (and learning)
How much does that whole setup weigh??

[Ron Earp]

I'm the scientist and Jeff G's the engineer, and we bring in Jeff Young for the heavy legal and bolt stripping, therefore we're one of those synergistic fabrication teams that can do it all. We didn't design the bar but were impressed with the design. John and Bruce Griggs used it on their ITE road race cars with the same mounting design and they didn't fail. Their attachment of the bar to the arm is different from ours though as their race cars used tubular arms where as we have to use the stock piece, but the concept is the same. Just requires a bit of adaptation.

It is "reasonably" light. What is interesting is that the V6 Mustang front bar is hollow already thus it isn't overly heavy. The new bar is a pound or two heavier, but much stiffer, than the stock bar. The mounting hardware vs stock is about a wash. We've got some heavy heim joints but the stock parts had some damn heavy bushings that we don't have. The stock mounting brackets were very weak looking but worked, so if you don't like the looks of these do not drive a Fox car with a roll bar, you'd be scairt!

You know, maybe it doesn't work well but I think it will. One thing is for sure, if you do the same old thing everyone else does don't except to get a better result than they do. It is good to try new things.

[SPiFF]

I'd suggest pushing on one to get it ready for CMP....

Yes, I would agree. Probably 75% chance the SPiFF uber motor v.3 won't make Road Atlanta, so I have signed up for CMP.

BTW, Ron, you get more done in a weekend then I have accomplished my entire life. Amazing. I am glad Hondas pretty much work out of the box or I'd never make it out there at my level of fab skill .... :D

[lateapex911]

yea, Ron, don't take that as a criticism...I KNOW you've done your homework. I applaud your research and agree 100% with Spiff about your fantastic work ethic.

[Ron Earp]

Thanks for the kudos fellows. We have worked tons on these cars but I'm sure we have made, and will continue to make, mistakes. Just part of doing it.

Today is clean up the Kingdom of Stang. I'll get some before and after shots of the storage above my shop. We've got more parts than we'll ever need, but scant little organization. That will change.

[lateapex911]

When you're done my garage attic...and basement...await your touch. ;)

[Ron Earp]

Long day today but it was very productive. We started out with this:

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mess1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mess2.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mess3.jpg

And within about seven hours went to this:

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/fixed1.jpg

[Ron Earp]

And further improvements:

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/clean2.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/clean3.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/clean5.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/clearn4.jpg

We built multiple shelves along two walls, one 16 ft long, one 12ft, and a couple of 6 footers. We also built two lofts.

Up in the attic storage space is a lot of stuff, probably more than you realize:

*Three cross members
*Three trannys
*Two engines
*Lots of heads
*Lots of intakes
*Two bumper sets
*Two doors
*Two front clips

And that is just the big stuff. There are brakes, axles, rear ends, springs, flywheels, pressure plates, etc. and now everything has a place and is pretty well sorted.

Successful day. Win for all.

[lateapex911]

So Ron, I see you have lots of heads, intakes, etc. Did you flow them all to find the best? Have you done the same thing with pistons and rods to find the lightest, then match that??

[Ron Earp]

So Ron, I see you have lots of heads, intakes, etc. Did you flow them all to find the best? Have you done the same thing with pistons and rods to find the lightest, then match that??

How shall I answer that? Yes. However, what makes this thread different from a "How To" thread is that this thread doesn't contain all those little details....

:)

[CRallo]

Forum needs a *like* button for posts.



I'm the scientist and Jeff G's the engineer, and we bring in Jeff Young for the heavy legal and bolt stripping, therefore we're one of those synergistic fabrication teams that can do it all. We didn't design the bar but were impressed with the design. John and Bruce Griggs used it on their ITE road race cars with the same mounting design and they didn't fail. Their attachment of the bar to the arm is different from ours though as their race cars used tubular arms where as we have to use the stock piece, but the concept is the same. Just requires a bit of adaptation.

It is "reasonably" light. What is interesting is that the V6 Mustang front bar is hollow already thus it isn't overly heavy. The new bar is a pound or two heavier, but much stiffer, than the stock bar. The mounting hardware vs stock is about a wash. We've got some heavy heim joints but the stock parts had some damn heavy bushings that we don't have. The stock mounting brackets were very weak looking but worked, so if you don't like the looks of these do not drive a Fox car with a roll bar, you'd be scairt!

You know, maybe it doesn't work well but I think it will. One thing is for sure, if you do the same old thing everyone else does don't except to get a better result than they do. It is good to try new things.

[lateapex911]

How shall I answer that? Yes. However, what makes this thread different from a "How To" thread is that this thread doesn't contain all those little details....

:)

Hey! You edited that!!

I saw what you REALLY did.
I'd expect nothing less.
Guess thats saying enough, eh mr Secretive? ;)