MARRS I - April 16-17 [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

dj10

03-30-2011, 11:27 AM

I'm registered and noticed that ITR is running in Big Bore. Does anybody know who to contact to see if ITR can be moved in with ITS?

Thanks

Ben,
I'm with you on this, it sucks and they don't care what we think! As for screwing up the ITS race, the only time I see ITS cars down there is when I'm lapping them. They really need to get us out of big bore.

erlrich

03-30-2011, 12:30 PM

I'm registered and noticed that ITR is running in Big Bore. Does anybody know who to contact to see if ITR can be moved in with ITS?

Thanks

Ben, this has been an issue for the past couple of seasons. ITR ran with ITA for a season or two, but (due largely to the actions of one driver IIRC) it was decided that the class needed to go somewhere else. Due to the small number of entrants (I think we were getting 3-4 cars per race at that time) the group didn't have a lot of pull with the CRC, and I think Big Bore eventually drew the short straw. Considering we now have T3 cars running with ITA, I see no reason why ITR couldn't run there also - but then, my opinion doesn't matter.

benspeed

03-30-2011, 01:47 PM

Chris - you got me "doh"! I've got the sups and will find out who to bribe...

CRallo

03-30-2011, 01:54 PM

like how "polite" my answer was? :p

I always wondered why ITR was not put with A... Especially now that its not just ex ITS cars.

benspeed

03-30-2011, 01:57 PM

I sent a request to Kathy McCleod, Chief Steward. No offers of bribery yet - what should we offer if denied??? :-)

Earl - what does she like to drink??? Chris said he'd do some kind of chippendale dance for her....

benspeed

03-30-2011, 02:19 PM

Here's another question - any problems taking my RV/trailer which is about 55 feet long into the track with these directions? For some reason I remember on the back roads a rail road crossing that would high side my RV on the crown. Been about 4 years since I've raced Summit so the memory is foggy...

0.3 mi

2. Turn right at Split Rock Rd

0.8 mi

3. Continue onto Rockaway Valley Rd

0.7 mi

4. Turn left at Valley Rd

0.7 mi

5. Continue onto County 618/Powerville Rd

0.6 mi

6. Turn left at N Main St

1.5 mi

7. Turn right to merge onto I-287 S

23.5 mi

8. Take exit 21B to merge onto I-78 W toward Easton Pa Partial toll road
Entering Pennsylvania

108 mi

9. Merge onto I-81 S Passing through Maryland
Entering West Virginia

121 mi

10. Take exit 5 for W Virginia 51 toward Inwood

0.2 mi

11. Turn left at W Virginia 51 E

0.6 mi

12. Turn right at Winchester Ave

0.2 mi

13. Turn left at W Virginia 51 E

4.7 mi

14. Turn right at Co Route 1

0.4 mi

15. Continue onto Queen St

0.2 mi

16. Continue onto Co Route 1/Leetown Rd Continue to follow Co Route 1

4.7 mi

17. Continue onto Leetown Rd/Pub Rd 19/530 Summit Point Continue to follow Leetown Rd

1.4 mi

18. Turn left at Co Route 1/14/Pack Horse

JamesB

03-30-2011, 02:44 PM

ITR was with ITA, the differntial in lap time was astounding and 3/4 of the ITA field was being lapped or their races broken up by the 3-5 ITR cars in the class. After this ran for 2 seasons and the ITR car average was that low, a massive shuffle happen putting ITS with ITB/C and SSB/C, while ITA got SRX7 and the T3 class (which the frontrunners of ITA never seem to loose visual on.) ITR ended up with big bore, in the end, ITR was the only group that was very unhappy with the change, the other groups where OK, and workers where thrilled on the fewer groups and earlier end of the day.

benspeed

03-30-2011, 02:54 PM

JamesB

03-30-2011, 03:23 PM

Ben - yeah, its ulikely and I dont know what came out of this years CRC discussion if there was any discussion. But I do know this was as of last year after reshuffling the groups to offer more time, but reduce from 10 to 8 run groups. In all drivers got more time on track, workers are happier because the days are not running so late as they did with 10 groups. As a person who worked and race, I was pleased with being done earlier in the day, as a driver the format had me concerned, but seems to be working out well.

Contact the ITR/ITS rep or big bore and see what they can say as far as if you must be on the paved area of the paddock. If you don't mind the back woods, it can take the trailer and power is there. The earlier you get there the easier it is to stay away from the low points. Lots of power back there.

erlrich

03-30-2011, 03:42 PM

LOL - OK, sounds like I might be SOL...doesn't look like a heavily subscribed big bore group anyway. How many cars does BB turn out?

Also, looking at the paddock map - will a 55 foot rig fit in the ITR/ITS paddock area? Or, where is the best place to paddock?

Thanks again

Ben - you should be fine in the ITR/S paddock, assuming it is the same as indicated on the paddock map on the DC Region's website (dated 2009...). As to the directions, I can't help there, as I come in from the south.

As to the groupings - as you can see, everyone is going to have their own opinion. I'll just toss this out there - the current ITR track record at Summit is 1:23.04, the ITA record is 1:24.48. I personally think ITR would be fine with ITA, or small bore...but again I don't make the rules. One thing I do feel pretty certain about - with the current groupings they aren't going to be attracting a lot of ITR drivers.

Kai Noeske

03-30-2011, 06:39 PM

Planning to go, hoping to get the car ready in time...!!!

Definitely SSC, pondering double dipping in ITS - where can I find the supps to see what the rungroups are made up of? :eclipsee_steering:

Edit: found it - http://www.wdcr-scca.org/ClubRacing/MARRS/EventSuppsCR/tabid/353/Default.aspx?EventID=4578

SSC runs with ITS - so no double dipping, I will just be the rolling chicane for everyone...! :)

OOOohhh, there is even another SSC car, same model and color as mine :) !!!

StephenB

03-30-2011, 07:27 PM

thing I do feel pretty certain about - with the current groupings they aren't going to be attracting a lot of ITR drivers.

+1 I most likely will not make the trip with that run group. (Not ready for this season anyway, but I wouldn't in the future) I like how NER does it with ITR being in with ITS. Eventhough they are in a different classes it is fun to RACE and some of the ITS cars are quick enough to stay up with most of the ITR cars around here.

Stephen

ajmr2

03-30-2011, 08:33 PM

ITS will run with ITB, ITC, SSB & SSC in the MARRS series. The ITS front runners are good clean lappers, and if they're alone they'll even hold up a bit if you're in a close battle with another ITB guy. :023:

benspeed

03-30-2011, 09:18 PM

Thanks for the tips for paddocking. Got the site map and sure don't want to be in the woods. Likely will be pulling in after 10 pm Friday night.

Kathy sent me a reply on the groupings and said she needs to look into the request which was very nice.

Looking forward to running with all the SP regulars. Been awhile but the track is one of my favorites.

Thanks for the help

JamesB

03-31-2011, 09:15 AM

Ben, as an RV driver/owner I recommend this route to the track. Take I81 past inwood and get off at Rt7 Eastbound. Take a left at Crums Church, there will be a nice 7-11 on your right (newly built), take that to the end, and make a right, that road turns into hardesty road. There are a couple of 25mph sharp corners but even that long of a rig you can clear it even with oncomming traffic. Take Hardesty to the end and make a right, just over the hump/hill are the entrances, you want the main entrance which is your second right.

Alternative would be 95S-695W-70W-340S, through harpers ferry and Charlestown, and make the left onto Race Track Road and take that 7 miles to the main gate on your left.

benspeed

03-31-2011, 09:32 AM

Thanks James - most appreciated and putting those notes in the travel file.

Best,

Ben

JamesB

03-31-2011, 11:02 AM

No problem ben, believe me with my DP, I wouldn't use any other way. Even without the highsiding route, the others have some nasty tips and I don't have a LOT of clearance between the ground and my transmission.

dave parker

03-31-2011, 11:27 AM

Ben
I would agree with James that a better way to come would be to continue on I-81 south to Virginia exit 317 (Route 7 east).
Follow Route 7 east to the fifth traffic light. Turn left onto Crums Church Rd. Follow Crums Church Rd. to the stop sign and turn left on Old Charles Town Rd. Follow to the stop sign and turn right onto Summit Point Rd. Go up the hill and use the second entrance on the right. It has a large sign that says "Summit Point Raceway".

Now for the important part. Paddock spaces in the ITR corral are 40 feet by 20 feet. So you may have some struggles with a 55 foot long rig in that corral. The other struggle that you may have is that in arriving around 10 pm on Friday most of your fellow ITR corral members (and the surrounding corrals) will be fully embedded and maneuvering room will be limited at best.
This is not to say that it cannot be done, but you will have some struggle.

I would suggest that you contact Pam Richardson (the big bore group rep) and see if she can help with this. You can get her at pfr at erols dot com.

I can tell you that Kathy Mcleod rarely drinks.

If I can help please feel free to contact me.

cheers
dave parker

Ron Earp

03-31-2011, 02:18 PM

We (NCR/CCR) always run ITR with ITS and I've only seen it be an issue one time, at Roebling Road May 2010. ITR BMW driver held up four ITS cars that couldn't pass and make it stick in a straight line but could pass (dangerously I might add) in T3, T4, T5. The driver of the ITR car should have let the ITS boys through because he was so far back in the ITR race it didn't matter.

All the other ITR/ITS mixings in the past couple of years have been fine.

dj10

03-31-2011, 07:19 PM

Ron, I hope you had a good talk with that ITR driver afterwards. I have the same problems with AS & some other fast cars in big bore they have caused me thousands of dollars of damage.

benspeed

03-31-2011, 09:13 PM

JamesB

04-01-2011, 09:27 AM

Thanks Parker for giving the Rt 7 details. I don't take that route often enough to know the light count. Either way, its one of the better routes for you and that rig. I think if you can, over behind the B corral in the woods is not that bad of a place to be....you power does have to run across the road, but the area is fairly level and gravel is everywhere.

But like I said, I perfer back there, quieter and less traffic....that is when I am not down by worker camping.

Trussell

04-01-2011, 05:36 PM

Thanks Dave

This is what I remember about Summit - super helpful and welcoming group who run some great races!

Anybody who hasn't been to this track is missing the real deal both on and off the track :-)

And dont forget to check out Summit's new go kart track on Saturday evening
www.summitpointkart.com (http://www.summitpointkart.com)

benspeed

04-12-2011, 09:50 AM

So I received some feedback on the request to move ITR into group 4 with ITS. Both Marshall the ITR driver rep and Pam the Big Bore driver rep gave good reasons why Summit likes to run ITR in Big Bore and they've got my support.

Group 6 and watch the mirrors for the GT1 and SPO cars and give room in the braking zones. The BB guys have also been asked to show courtesy to the cars that make their time in the corners.

Seems like Summit has pretty good communications between the different classes using the driver reps.

Can't wait for the weekend and our first race

Kai Noeske

04-12-2011, 05:04 PM

I know it sounds retarded, but... if I suddenly felt I wanted more racing, an SSC car should be legal in STL, right? :eclipsee_steering:

04-13-2011, 08:07 AM

I know it sounds retarded, but... if I suddenly felt I wanted more racing, an SSC car should be legal in STL, right? :eclipsee_steering:If it's classed somewhere in IT it would. But if it isn't, it would have to have full ST rules (fire system, drain plug safety wire etc).

Strange rules, but they are what they are...

Kai Noeske

04-13-2011, 10:14 AM

If it's classed somewhere in IT it would. But if it isn't, it would have to have full ST rules (fire system, drain plug safety wire etc).

Strange rules, but they are what they are...

It is classed ITS, so that would qualify, thanks :)!

dj10

04-13-2011, 10:38 AM

04-13-2011, 10:44 AM

It is classed ITS, so that would qualify, thanks :)!
9.1.4 B says "GCR listed IT cars, 1985 and newer, under their current IT
specifications shall compete in STU.
Note: While IT cars may not be competitive in the ST category,
their inclusion in the category will allow regional competitors to
participate in national events."

Welcome to STU, maybe even STL, but i'm not sure about STL rules... :)

benspeed

04-13-2011, 01:27 PM

Pretty sure you'll be in STU - ITA cars run STL...

Kai Noeske

04-13-2011, 03:03 PM

Pretty sure you'll be in STU - ITA cars run STL...

I thought STL's major eligibility criterium was: engine <= 2.0L, while STU was <= 3.0L capacity...? :shrug: Have to admit that I have not looked much into the STL rules, though. Will have a look at the GCR.

Edit: Really not clear to me after reading ST regs again - it says that all 85 and newer IT classed cars "shall" run STU.

However, my 1.6L Honda definitely fulfills all STL criteria by a mile - I mean, it is stock. On the other hand, the 2011 GCR does not list *any* STL eligible cars (except Spec Miata per 9.1.4) - does that mean that, in fact, currently *NO* cars are eligible for STL, or *ALL* cars that fit the STL rules??? Or is it that because STL is regional only, the regions have to decide which cars to allow?

GCR is really meagerly worded on that topic.

Marcus Miller

04-13-2011, 03:24 PM

Kai,
Any car under 2.0 liters that fits the STL ruleset runs STL.
Any car under 3.0 liters that fits the STU ruleset runs STU.

Any IT ruleset cars (specifically, those that are running IT rules, *not* ST rules) newer than 1985 run STU

You can't mix and match the rules, and say that my IT prepped car is less than 2.0 liters therefore runs STL instead of STU.

I think that is right, and should make sense when read that way.
(If not, I'm sure one of the ST guru's (tGA, Childs, etc) will correct me.

edit: So... for you, doesthe SSC Civic fit in the ST rules, as you are racing it? If not, you have to run in STU, claiming the IT ruleset. If you aren't IT legal, and plan to run to the ST rules, you must be legal for the ST class you re running.

Marcus

Kai Noeske

04-13-2011, 03:50 PM

Thanks Bill, Ben, Marcus!

The car being SSC, it *seems* to be a special case allowed to double-dip in both ITS and STL.

The one thing that may prevent STL is the B16A2's valve lift - will ask tGA about this.

Thanks for your help!

Kai

Kai Noeske

04-13-2011, 04:09 PM

Ugh...!!! Registered for my 2nd class (STL) and got slapped with $50 late reg. fee... FALE on entrant's behalf to read supps carefully ... !!!

erlrich

04-13-2011, 05:23 PM

Ugh...!!! Registered for my 2nd class (STL) and got slapped with $50 late reg. fee... FALE on entrant's behalf to read supps carefully ... !!!

I think you'll probably be ok - per the supps "At-Track subsequent entries for a second class will be eligible for a rebate (see “Multi-Entry Rebate” below) and will have the $50 late registration fee refunded." I can't imagine they won't also waive the late fee if you registered online...but then, this is the DC Region...

dave parker

04-13-2011, 06:05 PM

Kai Noeske

04-13-2011, 06:16 PM

Kai
When you go to registration on Friday night try to get this resolved. If you can not get a resolution ask to speak with Beth Mills (chief registrar). If it is still not resolved with Beth come and find me on Saturday morning. I will be in the King Rat paddock directly across from the gas pumps.

Please be polite and non-confrontational (i know that you will but I have to say it anyway).

cheers
dave parker

Thanks a lot Dave. Will do. I actually feel a bit bad about causing the registrar or her helpers extra trouble - I mean, it's a ton of work to process 200+ drivers + 130+ workers as it is...

benspeed

04-14-2011, 03:12 PM

Actions speaks louder than words....I guess we'll see.

C'mon Dan - you gotta show up! Sounds like your going to skip!

benspeed

04-14-2011, 03:17 PM

However, my 1.6L Honda definitely fulfills all STL criteria by a mile

Kai - I know nothing about Honda and didn't realize the 1.6 was in ITS (sorta seems a little outgunned there???)

But at 1.6 you are solid for STL from my read of the rules. As long as the car complies to IT rules you can run in ST and are classed by motor size.

I'm going to keep my car in IT trim for STU. If I ran true ST rules I'd be 3300 lbs. so better to keep her in IT and occasionally double dip.

Kai Noeske

04-14-2011, 05:37 PM

Kai - I know nothing about Honda and didn't realize the 1.6 was in ITS (sorta seems a little outgunned there???)

But at 1.6 you are solid for STL from my read of the rules. As long as the car complies to IT rules you can run in ST and are classed by motor size.

I'm going to keep my car in IT trim for STU. If I ran true ST rules I'd be 3300 lbs. so better to keep her in IT and occasionally double dip.

Well, turns out the only question was the STL valve lift limit - but my VTEC engine is within the limits. :)

Yes, the Si is in ITS with a competition weight of 2430 (?). The car is an ITA/S tweener; I get lots of contradictory opinions whether it would make a quick ITS car. Still undecided whether to go IT when it expires this winter.

Re. your car - that's right, any IT car is allowed in STU - I stopped for a sec and thought "what? STU??? that's gotta be way more than a 3L engine...":lol:

mossaidis

04-14-2011, 05:58 PM

Kai - as an aside, do you know of anyone that has built a 8/10ths or greater ITS Si?

Kai Noeske

04-14-2011, 06:06 PM

Kai - as an aside, do you know of anyone that has built a 8/10ths or greater ITS Si?

I have gotten a few replies from people over at the sandbox who either have built one or know people who did. AFAIK, no ITS Si has yet been fully developed, but I have heard encouraging things from people who did basic (or a bit more) IT mods. Others argue that because of FWD and the low torque, the car won't be competitive and not worth the $$$ to build it into IT. Then again, I am just looking for a car that can run in the middle or front of the pack regionally right now - so I can enjoy some racing with matching cars. I am not at the point where I worry about winning championships or going to the runoffs.

mossaidis

04-14-2011, 06:36 PM

If a RSX-S can be competitive in ITR, then an 99-00 Si can compete in ITS.

Kai Noeske

04-14-2011, 07:38 PM

If a RSX-S can be competitive in ITR, then an 99-00 Si can compete in ITS.

There is an almost endless (and heated in the usual way) thread on the topic of RSX/GSR/99 Si competitiveness in ITS on teh sandbox that is partially my fault:

http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=33556

The upshot is that those who have already built a basic ITS 99 Si, some with bolt-on engine mods only, found the car to be quite competitive, unless some highly developed bimmers / rx7s showed up. Then again, as I said, none of these ITS SI cars were apparently fully developed.

gran racing

04-15-2011, 08:05 AM

Regardless of whether it could be competitive or not, you could buy a front running car for as much as you'd spend building a mid-pack ITS si and not have all of the time spent along the way.

Kai Noeske

04-15-2011, 09:02 AM

Regardless of whether it could be competitive or not, you could buy a front running car for as much as you'd spend building a mid-pack ITS si and not have all of the time spent along the way.

If I was in your situation, yes - house, truck, trailer. My situation makes <5K in Civic mods a much better option than buying a ready-built IT car. We can talk about this in private.

benspeed

04-15-2011, 12:27 PM

Loaded and ready for battle :026:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5305/5621909400_5ac44f031d_m.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/5621909730_46b2dfbcba_m.jpg

Kai Noeske

04-18-2011, 12:09 PM

Thanks all for a great weekend. Got so much help from the Tristan, Kirk & the Brimtek Crew, Rob, Jean and Lee when my camping project failed Saturday night due to a tent that was unwisely placed in a flash flood:

https://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=10150561077870634&id=567560633&aid=656796&l=460959b565

Everyone was great on the track and cut my rookie driving some slack. I tried to stay out of faster cars' way, but may not always have succeeded. Racing in the rain was insane fun. Also, it's incredible how good it feels to avoid the spinning car ahead down the chute and find enough traction in the wet dirt to juuust manage to stay clear of the tire wall. :026:

dave parker

04-18-2011, 12:41 PM

Kai
I thought that you handled yourself just fine while running with the Small Bore group. You were heads up and aware of what was happening and gave me more than enough room when I came by. Thanks.

Please come and run with us again. Hopefully more people will figure out that STL is a viable place to run and with it being in the Small Bore group there is opportunity to "double dip" if you are running in one of the IT classes as well.

cheers
dave parker

benspeed

04-18-2011, 01:49 PM

Great weekend at Summit! This was my third visit and the first in five years. Tough to remember the track and run it in a IT instead of the GTA/GT1 car. Had to unlearn what I did with the point and shoot monster and get the lines down for momentum. Not sure I got the lines but definitely had a ton of fun! The rain qualifier was a blast.

Parked at the front of the paddock and wondered why this great spot was available. Uh, it was by the drain that emptied out the flash flood....car nearly washed away. Two feet of water in less than 20 minutes

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=1943795604425

Kai Noeske

04-18-2011, 02:07 PM

Dude, I *did* look like a fisherman with the yellow on :D !

Now I understand why they included that WWII German amphibian car in Gran Turismo 5...

dave parker

04-18-2011, 02:12 PM

Parked at the front of the paddock and wondered why this great spot was available. Uh, it was by the drain that emptied out the flash flood....car nearly washed away. Two feet of water in less than 20 minutes

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=1943795604425 (http://www.facebook.com/#%21/video/video.php?v=1943795604425)

Ben
That great spot was available because the drivers rep. reserved it for Big Bore class cars(your welcome!). Since I had to "stand in" for the Big Bore rep. Pam Richardson while she was at VIR for the Double National.
The drainage issue happens only when we have epic rain like on Saturday.
I have not seen it rain like that at Summit in ten years.
cheers
dave parker

JamesB

04-18-2011, 02:41 PM

Ben,

I thought about you while sitting out the storm at Baker (temporarilly renamed lake baker.) I was happy to see you where able to move out of the deepest of the waters, but I saw Kai's tent under water. This was some serious rains, weather stations nearby reported 2.44" of rain on Saturday and I am going to guess most of it fell in a 2 hour window.

wundergound reports 2.04....either way, record setting rain for 1 day.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMRB/2011/4/16/DailyHistory.html

benspeed

04-18-2011, 05:33 PM

Ben
That great spot was available because the drivers rep. reserved it for Big Bore class cars(your welcome!). Since I had to "stand in" for the Big Bore rep. Pam Richardson while she was at VIR for the Double National.
The drainage issue happens only when we have epic rain like on Saturday.
I have not seen it rain like that at Summit in ten years.
cheers
dave parker

Thanks Dave - I think I met you at the drivers meeting - you pulled double duty with little bore also?

Some great folks at Summit - a fellow also tried to reserve me a spot in the ITR area, which has moved and is now different than the paddock map? I thought ITR and Big Bore were pretty close - and when I pulled in around 9PM was relieved to have a place to park - mucho thanks again!

PS - I have great video of the race but not posting......I'd be inviting a 100 critiques of where I could improve my line!

Kai Noeske

04-19-2011, 06:55 PM

Saturday ITS/B/C race...

http://vimeo.com/22624789

Splish Splash. :eclipsee_steering:

dj10

04-19-2011, 09:45 PM

Anyone take pictures @ Marrs 1?

dave parker

04-20-2011, 09:17 AM

Thanks Dave - I think I met you at the drivers meeting - you pulled double duty with little bore also?

Ben
Yes, double duty and I have the double duty paycheck to prove it. :happy204:
It was not really a big deal to do other than having twice the amount of paddock spaces to mark off on Thursday evening. There was no drama as far as the Big Bore group was concerned, so not much for me to have to deal with.

Please come race with us again.
cheers
dave parker

PDoane

05-03-2011, 12:07 PM

Anyone take pictures @ Marrs 1?

You should have gotten a Ken Brown mailing with snapshots of any he got with your car. I don't know of any others, but would be interested.

If you mean other competitors, I didn't.

05-05-2011, 08:17 AM

.....It was not really a big deal to do other than having twice the amount of paddock spaces to mark off on Thursday evening....

And from what I remember, you should have been more diligent in keeping them marked off :mad1:

dave parker

05-05-2011, 10:02 AM

And from what I remember, you should have been more diligent in keeping them marked off :mad1:

Can you explain that statement? Since this is the first I have heard of any problems.
A PM is fine.
cheers
dave parker

05-05-2011, 10:32 AM

Can you explain that statement? Since this is the first I have heard of any problems.
A PM is fine.
cheers
dave parker

Lol. I was commenting on all the trouble you had keeping people out of your paddock space while you were on track. Had you put up some crime scene tape on your departure to th grid, perhaps you would have had a space to return to :)