Noob here few questions on my options.

[servanter]

Hello IT
I currently own a 4wd 91 civic wagon and I would love to build it for use in some type of amateur racing.
What options to I have on the engine/drivetrain and what class would I be put in?
Engine:
Is any type of motor swap legal?
Is any form of boost legal?

Drivetrain:
Would I be better off with a 2wd?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f118/thagreenteam/Wagon/DSC01806.jpg?t=1297196252

[ddewhurst]

If your serious with your request please go to the following site. This is what the SCCA calls the General Competition Rules. For the Improved Touring Category Specifications go to page 383, read & follow through to the car class specification lines & see if there is a place for your car.:023:

http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%20Tech/2011%20GCR-printed%20version.pdf

[gran racing]

Welcome!

Have you done any HPDEs yet? If not, I'd suggest starting there.

If you're ready for Club Racing, I'd strongly recommend that you look at purchasing an already built car. Especially in this economy, there are some amazing deals out there. Basically, I personally wouldn't build that particular car into a race car.

[Knestis]

Your best bet would be to buy an already-built Civic or CRX. It's going to sound like an expensive proposition - think $4000-7000 for a solid starter car, depending on details - but it will be cheaper than building your own.

K

PS - Love those wagons!

[Chip42]

1 - definately go read the rules. the GCR lists all of the required safety stuff toward the front, and the various classifications toward the rear. this is a good site to ask Impoved Touring and Super Touring questions (ST has a subforum here (http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80)).

curently, your wagon is not classed, but the Civic EX, Civic Si, and CRX Si of the same generation and motor (the wagon has a D16A6, right?) are, all in ITA. AWD cars were recently allowed, so you should be able to get a classification for yours if you ask (go to www.crbscca.com and fill out the request form. include copies of factory manual pages showing all of the major specs for your car). this is a great category with a relatively simple set of rules that is restrictive, so you have less to do, buy, etc... to get on track. the category is competitive, and the sister cars to yours are among the best in the class.

if you prefer motor swaps, then check out Super Touring (STL or STU). I don't know what you could do with the AWD wagon (maybe a B-series with B20 CRV driveline?) but that's the place where you could do it.

[servanter]

I'll check that out.
Thanks for the quick response.

[mossaidis]

Sweet ride btw. Love it! have you swapped motors already? Do you run boost? Can you converted from 2wd to 4wd?

For the group, are wagons even allowed to club race? I don't think so.

[Simon T.]

Definitely check out the GCR first then decide what class interests you.

As said, do some track days if you haven't yet. I will say BUY a car. Sadly it took me too long of a time to learn that despite what people said. It's cheaper and so much easier.

If you want to build your wagon, I would start off with the mandatory safety gear first (cage, seat harness, kill switch, etc.) and then worry about go fast modifications but I have no idea what class that would even run in.


Sweet ride btw. Love it! have you swapped motors already? Do you run boost? Can you converted from 2wd to 4wd?

For the group, are wagons even allowed to club race? I don't think so.

Yeah I always thought wagons weren't allowed but I've seen a couple. I guess they aren't as welcomed because of the extra glass or something?

[tnord]

if you like the ruleset of IT but you don't see your car listed on the classification pages, don't get too concerned, we can work with you to find a class for it to race in.

[servanter]

Wow.. thanks for the overload on responses. I wasn't sure how much traffic this site has.
I have been browsing around and buying a car would be the smartest (inexpensive) way to go.


..and the questions on the wagon. It is still a rt-4wd but I have had a IT-R, B20vtec in it. Bought a k20 a while ago and never got around to doing the swap, now its back to stock form, d16a6.

[mossaidis]

If you want opinions, you came to the right place ;) Also, where are you located?

[pitbull113]

I'd like to add that dave (gran racing) has a great website with alot of info on getting started in racing. hint it's in his sig.

[tom91ita]

the awd wagons are great;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZzqBPz4sY

since you are well versed in the hondas, the 88-91 crx would be great. there was one well prepped ef 4dr a while ago. that platform has some interesting advantages (longer wheelbase, same engine and so weight as the crx and larger brakes).

or look into the integras as well.

if you are into the engine swaps, then STL might be more to your liking.

[gran racing]

Several of us form this form are helping people out through a mentor program which is totally free to join. It's a nice compliment to posting stuff on this chat forum. As Steve said, there's a link in my signature where you can join it.

[raffaelli]

I'd like to recommend that you don't buy a car, built it. For me, the money spent and respent on the car that I built does not come close the the experience value gained by building it. I would not build a car where the money spent comes from credit.

If you are looking to get into racing in a 'right now' kind of way or cash is not on hand (double, at least, what you think it will cost you to built it) then buy one.

[servanter]

I am located in south east Texas.
I'm not looking to just jump in right away, I am being very patient about getting into racing but I want to start planing ahead and know what I'm getting into.
I have never been big into any form of racing, but I have always had a soft spot for road racing.
I am a naturally a car guy, if that transfers into any real world racing ability IDK, but I would like to take a shot.
There is a school in Austin called Driveway Austin that I considered looking into, anyone know of the place?


Also while I'm thinking about it, why don't I see any impreza RSs? Didn't they allow old school imprezas last year?

[Matt93SE]

What part of Southeast TX? that's a lot of acreage. ;)

there are road courses all over the place down here. Angleton, San Marcos, Austin, Fort Worth, Decatur, Cresson, Hitchcock, and supposedly one coming near Katy and another in Weatherford.

There's lots of stuff going on at Harris Hill Road in San Marcos, as well as at MSR Houston. the other tracks aren't quite as busy, but they're not as close to huge cities either.

[tnord]

Also while I'm thinking about it, why don't I see any impreza RSs? Didn't they allow old school imprezas last year?

AWD vehicles were just added to IT last year.

[servanter]

Beaumont, Tx

[Matt93SE]

I'm sorry. ;)
In that case, you can also toss in the track they're building in NOLA right now as well as No Problem Raceway south of Baton Rouge.

[servanter]

I'm sorry. ;)
In that case, you can also toss in the track they're building in NOLA right now as well as No Problem Raceway south of Baton Rouge.

So you know Houston is closer. I used to live in Austin and I still have family there so I have more of an excuse to go. I avoid going east any way I can.

[Matt93SE]

oh yeah. I know that section of I-10 real well. I work as a contractor for the oil industry, so I spend a ton of time going to Loserana to catch a chopper. I avoid going east of Baytown at all costs too, but when your boss tells you to go......

[servanter]

Who do you work for, and what is it that you do exactly?

[TStiles]

I am located in south east Texas.
I'm not looking to just jump in right away, I am being very patient about getting into racing but I want to start planing ahead and know what I'm getting into.
I have never been big into any form of racing, but I have always had a soft spot for road racing.
I am a naturally a car guy, if that transfers into any real world racing ability IDK, but I would like to take a shot.
There is a school in Austin called Driveway Austin that I considered looking into, anyone know of the place?


Also while I'm thinking about it, why don't I see any impreza RSs? Didn't they allow old school imprezas last year?

It's been said , but I'll offer something a little more specific ... Get yourself signed up for some HPDE's ... In Texas you can check out :

The Driver's Edge
Texas World Speedway PDS
Revolution Precision Driving School

Great opportunities to gets some , classroom instruction , lots of track time with instructor in the car and can review your car options. I'll be instructing at most of the Driver's Edge events , feel free to ask Rick to assign me as your instructor.

Or , you could just buy a Spec Miata and come race with us in ITA , as you go along you can decide to develop as an ITA , STL , STU , GTL , FP , EP

Enjoy the ride

[Matt93SE]

I'm a field engineer (read: flunkie that does everything from sweep the floor to design instrumentaton) for an oceanography firm. Most of business is monitoring water currents for the deepwater oil rigs. We do tons of other stuff, but that's our bread and butter. it's the expensive equipment that needs the most maintenance.

As for what Trey said, there are tons of HPDEs in the area with all kinds of car clubs. That's the best way to get to learning if you want to eventually road race. Autocross (solo II) is another good way to learn car control skills and is much more affordable to get started. only drawback is that you have very limited seat time and you're in a parking lot going 50mph vs. on a road course going 100mph.

Anyway, look into some of the Driver's Edge events as well as the TWS Motorsports Club or whatever they're called now. msrhouston.com texasworldspeedway.com and thedriversedge.net

[lateapex911]

I'm a field engineer (read: flunkie that does everything from sweep the floor to design instrumentaton) for an oceanography firm. Most of business is monitoring water currents for the deepwater oil rigs. We do tons of other stuff, but that's our bread and butter. it's the expensive equipment that needs the most maintenance.

As for what Trey said, there are tons of HPDEs in the area with all kinds of car clubs. That's the best way to get to learning if you want to eventually road race. Autocross (solo II) is another good way to learn car control skills and is much more affordable to get started. only drawback is that you have very limited seat time and you're in a parking lot going 50mph vs. on a road course going 100mph.

Anyway, look into some of the Driver's Edge events as well as the TWS Motorsports Club or whatever they're called now. msrhouston.com texasworldspeedway.com and thedriversedge.net

Autocross can be limited seat time-wise, but certain smaller clubs can sometimes offer lots and lots of runs. Also, some guys will have cars registered in two different classes for more runs. Autocrossing teaches you to look ahead, and to get your homework done. It's certainly different than roadracing, (An distinct sport, really) but there are lots of benefits to be had for the cheap entry fees.

[EV]

I'd like to recommend that you don't buy a car, built it. For me, the money spent and respent on the car that I built does not come close the the experience value gained by building it. I would not build a car where the money spent comes from credit.

If you are looking to get into racing in a 'right now' kind of way or cash is not on hand (double, at least, what you think it will cost you to built it) then buy one.

I disagree. Yes you learn a lot when you build you own car, unless you have the skills to do it right you may buy yourself more problems than you gain. The SCCA rules are often difficult to understand and honestly confusing at best. I beleive it's better to start out with an already built car, race it for a few years, and then after being in the club for a couple of years tackle a build at a later date if you really want to.

Even starting with a free donor car, a friend of mine spent 11K on a build to end up with a marginally performing car because the funds wouldn't permit buying the best of anything. After he was done, he may have been able to get 6K for the car. Over time he improved the car, and it ended up being quite quick, but by then close to 20K was spent. Had he started with the 6K built car, he would have had an extra 4K to spend on improvements. I have seen front running winning cars in ITA sell for 10-12K.

In my case, I bought fully caged showroom stock (SSC) race car with a winning history for $1800, spent a couple of thousand on some cheap suspension and upgrades to convert it to ITA, and went racing.

To me a scratch build when the finished product is worth pennies on the dollar keeps you from spending money on the most important thing in racing, track time.

YMMV

[240zdave]

I have done both. I bought an already built car when I started racing for $3000. I'm now finishing building it's replacement for north of $10k.

When I was just starting, I did not know enough about racing, the SCCA, or the car to know how to build a race car. Buying an already built race car that meets the rules took that part out of the equation, and let me concentrate on learning to drive. Once you get some seat time and (hopefully) some more cash, you can then decide if you want to build your own car, and by then you will know what you would change if you chose to build the same car again. The reason I chose to build this time was because of all of the time, knowledge and money already invested in my first 240Z. I'm using the engine, tranny and mechanical bits from the first (wrecked) car in the new car, and still spending over $10k.

[raffaelli]

I disagree. Yes you learn a lot when you build you own car, unless you have the skills to do it right you may buy yourself more problems than you gain. The SCCA rules are often difficult to understand and honestly confusing at best. I beleive it's better to start out with an already built car, race it for a few years, and then after being in the club for a couple of years tackle a build at a later date if you really want to.

Even starting with a free donor car, a friend of mine spent 11K on a build to end up with a marginally performing car because the funds wouldn't permit buying the best of anything. After he was done, he may have been able to get 6K for the car. Over time he improved the car, and it ended up being quite quick, but by then close to 20K was spent. Had he started with the 6K built car, he would have had an extra 4K to spend on improvements. I have seen front running winning cars in ITA sell for 10-12K.

In my case, I bought fully caged showroom stock (SSC) race car with a winning history for $1800, spent a couple of thousand on some cheap suspension and upgrades to convert it to ITA, and went racing.

To me a scratch build when the finished product is worth pennies on the dollar keeps you from spending money on the most important thing in racing, track time.

YMMV

To me, the money is just money, and I will make more. The resale value of the car is completly not a consideration for me. The skills gained and the value of the experience and problem solving makes the money part of it far less of a not a consideration.