ITB Jetta Suspension HELP!

[S2_ITBVW]

First, sorry for the two junk posts on the exhaust thread. I truly had not thought of needing earplugs. But, I also need 4 posts in order to create this thread with a link. Would have been nice to know that before I spent the time writing (and losing) a message.

I need help. I am making fixes/upgrades to my ITB Jetta so that it will be ready for my school in the spring. The car currently has old Bilstein struts on the front. One of these is broken, so I was going to replace it. However, the new Bilstein does not match the Bilsteins currently on the car. One big difference is that the diameter of the shaft that goes into the camber plate is smaller. So, the new Bilstein does not fit my camber plates. I do not know what kind of camber plates I have, so I do not know how to change the bushing to fit the new strut. I have included a link with photos of all the parts involved.

http://cid-fb91f1a5880ec4df.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/ITB%20Jetta%20Build?nl=1&uc=3

Please take a look at these photos and let me know how you think I should proceed. My current plan is to get another new strut and figure out a way to get a new bushings for the camber plates. But, I do not know how to do this since I do not know what kind of camber plates these are. Thanks very much!

Happy new year!

Dave

Plese

[Ralf]

Not sure if these are them, but here is a link for some that look similiar.

http://www.eurosportacc.com/camber_caster_adjustment_kits_bolts_plates.htm

[Knestis]

Had the identical problem with a set of used camber plates I bought, and just had a machine shop press and ream a sleeve into the spherical bearing in the plate.

K

[S2_ITBVW]

Excellent! These are the things that I don't know . . . I will talk to a machine shop and have the spherical bearings modified.

If anyone has any other advice, I would appreciate hearing it.

Thanks very, very much for your assistance.

Dave

[Lael Cleland]

Picture #3 looks like a stock strut housing and a sport insert, the other strut is a super spendy threaded body....
I have not run in to any bilsteins the were not 14mm for the front of a vw.....

[Joe Camilleri]

I have those camber plates, I think that they are Carrera. I've had both Bilsteins and Carreras in them. The pressed sleeve idea sounds good.

[S2_ITBVW]

Thanks, everyone, for the help.

I should have mentioned that the new struts are Bilstein VE3-4406. These seem to be a commonly recommended strut for the VW A2 chassis. Is anyone else using this strut??

Dave

[GTIspirit]

You might also want to consider Ground Control for strut rod bushings. Measure the ID of your camber plate spherical bearing and the OD of your new strut shafts and call Ground Control. They have bushings available in various sizes to that different strut types can work with their camber plates. I know from experience that they will sell the bushings separate from the camber plate and they might have something off the shelf that will work for you.

[joeg]

Goog idea.

In the trade, the Camber/caster plate has the slots. It is the "slider" (they call it ) that has the sperical bearing in the center of it (along with the studs that fit into the plate's slots). Sometimes the sperical is referred to as the "pillow" for some reason.

[S2_ITBVW]

Well, one of the nuts on one of the sliders is stripped and will not come off. So, I think I am going to have to replace the camber plates too. At this point it would cost more to fix all the little things that are wrong with them. I'll ask if the spherical bearings come in different sizes or if I need to use a bushing.

Thanks for the tips, everyone.

[jimbbski]

Bearings come in US SAE sizes and metric. What you get in a camber plate depends on who makes the plate. Some will use metic bearings and some SAE. In this country SAE bearings are easier to find in good to high quality at a resonable price but I have been able to buy metric bearings sometimes for a good price as well. Aurora Bearing is one company that makes both. I try to buy their brand when ever I can.

http://www.aurorabearing.com/product-catalogs/default.html

I prefer to use a bearing as large as i can and then use a bushing to fit the strut rod to it. A larger bearing will last longer. Remember, we're using these bearings in a way that's not ideal. The capacity of a bearing used this way is it's axial capacity and it's usually only 25% of the radial load.

Hitting a curb, dropping a wheel off the track can subject a bearing to a much greater load then it's rated capacity and can damage the bearing and cause it to wear out faster. There is no give in these bearing and that's what we'er after.

[Sandro]

did you solve the spacer problem yet?

I have some spacers that should work. Let me know the size of the bearing(probably 5/8") so I can double check they will fit, if they do, you can have them.

[S2_ITBVW]

The new camber plates arrive next week. The inner diameter of the spherical bearing in plates is supposed to be 5/8 inches. But, I will measure to be sure. I'll provide the specs when I have everything here and let you know. I truly appreciate the help.

[S2_ITBVW]

The EuroSport camber plates arrived and they are pretty. Not exactly like those that were on the car. They are beefier and of better all around construction. The inner diameter of the spherical bearings is indeed 5/8", but the mystery ends there. EuroSport included bushings that fit the Bilsteins perfectly. Nice!

This brings me to my next question:

The old camber plates were mounted on a 1" think aluminum spacer. Why? Can't you just adjust the ride height of the car by adjusting the spring perch on the strut? Why would you want to raise the level of the camber plate on top of the strut tower using a spacer like this?

Thanks again to all that have been providing "technical support."

[racer_tim]

Dave, you might be at the far end of the strut range of motion, so maybe that's where there was a spacer there.

[S2_ITBVW]

Yes, I just compared the old struts with the new Bilsteins and the new struts are MUCH shorter than the old struts. I don't think I will need the spacers. I think the new camber plates and the new struts will work together quite nicely.

So, now to put everything back together . . .

Thanks!

[S2_ITBVW]

Hello folks! We are making progress. I am re-assembling, painting, etc. Had to have some work done to the strut towers as they had been cut to pieces by the former owner when he installed the old camber plates. Now it is perfect and ready to put back together. I have a question . . .

My new struts (Bilstien: VE3-4406) did not come with and kind of upper spring perch. Do my springs simply sit on top of the strut's perch and rest against the under side of the camber plate/strut tower?

Seems like the camber plate is certainly strong enough, but wanted to check and make sure. As always, thanks for your help.

Dave

[joeg]

It should not, Dave. There should be a perch that fits on top of the spring that acts as a bearing under the plate.

[Chip42]

Usually there's a "top hat" (upper perch) on this type of setup, such as this:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/8510_fs.jpg

some of the ground control setups have a spherical shape milled around the spherical bearing ("pillow ball"), and the top hat has the concave match, to the spring force is NOT directed to the bearing (damping forces are, still). it doesn't look as though this set does - this style would load the "pillow ball". these are GC's MkI Jetta coilovers.

the thing you DON'T want is the spring to be supported by a surface that is not perpendicular to the strut. both types of top hats Imentioned above will get you in the right place.

[S2_ITBVW]

Got it. These did not come with the struts or the camber plates, so I need to source them somewhere else . . .

I thought I had everything I needed. Hopefully these will not be hard to find.

Thanks very much for the help!

Dave