Left-foot braking

[RedMisted]

How much of an advantage can this be in the types of cars we race? (I know much depends on track size and configuration.)

I might want to give LF braking a whirl next year... Problem is, it might take ME for a whirl off a racetrack. After decades of right-foot conditioning, I might be wasting my energy...

[tnord]

one day i just made myself start using my left foot to brake in the truck during daily commute. it maybe took a month to get the feel for it. how much it helps is more track dependent than anything. at Road Atlanta there isn't a braking zone that isn't accompanied by a downshift, so the only LFB i did was just to pump them up before T10 and T1. at Heartland Park however it could be useful in multiple places.

[Ed Funk]

Can help "adjust" understeer in a FWD car.

[CRallo]

I've been left foot braking an automatic since the day after I finished driver's ed... I'm totally ambidextrous when it comes to my feet while driving and don't even think about it. That said, a bunch of practiice on the street will help a lot, all that really changes at the track will be the pressure applied... Honestly have never left foot braked on the track, except like Ed is refering to... Mmmm...

[JLawton]

I had a ruptured Achilles on my right leg and spent 5 months driving an automatic with my left foot. This year is the first time I tried using my left foot. It was at Thunder in NJ in the octopus. A very, VERY tight corner. It absolutely helped the car rotate.

There are several tracks in the area that require only a quick stab on the brakes that I hope to try left footing next season.

[ner88]

If you're a karter you can't avoid it :shrug:

[Knestis]

Any time I don't downshift, which with the new final drive is fairly often. In fact, at Rollercoaster at VIR I downshift conventionally, turn left off the straight on power, then LFB before the flick right.

K

[Russ Myers]

LFB when autocrossing, LFB when racing, LFB when driving on the street. My wife still marvels at the practice. Front wheel drive, rear wheel, no matter.

Russ

[shwah]

I do it like Kirk. If there is no downshift, I can get on the brakes quicker, and back on the gas quicker using both feet.

And of course like everyone else, to correct after effing up a corner and understeering the fwd econobox...

I found it less hard than I expected.

[RedMisted]

So it seems from the feedback here that LF braking can be learned, that any old dog can learn this new trick.

I remember watching a F1 race on TV a few years ago. They were racing at Suzuka, Japan. An announcer remarked that Michael Schumacher was 0.5 seconds/lap quicker than team-mate Rubens Barrichello because Schuey uses the left foot to brake while Rubens does not. If this can be the difference at a track like Mid Ohio (where there are multiple corners to try LF braking), driving our cars, then that advantage is worth its weight in gold.

[quadzjr]

I LFB in everythign I drive, for pratice. Do it aroudn on the street for a while to prevent it giving you a whirl. I use it one some corners that I don't have to downshift. space is camped for my size in my car so I have to setup for it. (13" shoe in an old japanese car.)

Just like when driving the carts, you keep keep your foot into it and use the brake to slow you down. this alsoo helps rotation. The one place that I know that it works for me is the 5-6 at roebling. I plan on working on it some more. it can only help right?

[RedMisted]

Any time I don't downshift, which with the new final drive is fairly often. In fact, at Rollercoaster at VIR I downshift conventionally, turn left off the straight on power, then LFB before the flick right.

K

Not to change the subject, but before you enter Rollercoaster, are you downshifting 5th to 3rd? I was doing that a few weeks ago at the Goblins Go event, and I broke my input shaft because the car was being over-revved. I tried 5th to 4th, but couldn't get a good jump out of the right-hand flick. Maybe I should try 5-4-3, that would be quite a bit of pedal dancing on such a short stretch of track. But VIR being VIR, not much is supposed to be easy, and that's what I love about this track...

[Marcus Miller]

I LFB in everythign I drive, for pratice. Do it aroudn on the street for a while to prevent it giving you a whirl. I use it one some corners that I don't have to downshift. space is camped for my size in my car so I have to setup for it. (13" shoe in an old japanese car.)

Just like when driving the carts, you keep keep your foot into it and use the brake to slow you down. this alsoo helps rotation. The one place that I know that it works for me is the 5-6 at roebling. I plan on working on it some more. it can only help right?

As others have said, anytime I'm not downshifting, its LFB.
My opinion only, its a needed skill.

[joeg]

I only LFB on the pace lap to warm things up.

This is racing; not rally.

[betamotorsports]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEqOGejlrw

[gran racing]

Even with the talented pro drivers, you'll hear guys that swear by it and others that are not in favor of it. I play around with it a little bit but rarely do it in a race.

[JohnRW]

For some reason I don't fully grasp, I automatically start to LFB in the wet. It's a reflex....probably something from the "lizard brain"...my feet just move over a bit and the left foot gets more to do. Doesn't matter whether it's fwd or rwd, front engine or rear engine. Very weird.

Probably due to a supressed childhood trauma.

[erlrich]

I've been telling myself for a while I need to practice LF braking, but with the little bit of track time I've gotten this year (no practice days) I haven't had the time to dedicate to it. I feel pretty certain that it could save some time in corners where there is no downshifting (e.g. T3 at Summit, T10 at VIR), but also believe the difference would be measured in hundreths of a second.

Kirk - at VIR are you talking about LF braking at the end of the straight going into Roller Coaster (top of the hill), or the section leaving Roller Coaster going through Hog Pen?

[miketrier]

I found left foot braking to be helpful in on turns that do not require downshifting. You can LF brake lightly (or more) while staying on the gas to avoid upsetting the balance of the car. This can be a very big thing if you driive a car that tends to spin if you lift in a turn. LF braking is especially helpful in carousel or sweeper type turns because you can reach and exceed the adhesion limit then drag the brake a bit, without lifting, to restore traction. It can help rotate the car by bringing the rear around in a controlled manner and can be effective at controlling understeer, all while staying on the gas. You can also stop a lateral slide by lightly dragging the brake to slightly slow the car while still on the gas.

[lateapex911]

Some people have issues when they first try it, if they have driven manual transmissions for a long time, where their left foot decides to do the clutch thing, except on the brake pedal. Much hilarity ensues. Practice on the street with no traffic around. ;)

[RedMisted]

Some people have issues when they first try it, if they have driven manual transmissions for a long time, where their left foot decides to do the clutch thing, except on the brake pedal. Much hilarity ensues. Practice on the street with no traffic around. ;)

That's good advice. When I taught myself heel-and-toe, I started out on country roads. No way was I going to force myself to learn a complex skill at speed on a racetrack! The heel-toe thing came pretty quick for me. Hopefully, I'll adapt just as fast to LF braking. :)

[Chip42]

heel and toe is easier to DO in a racecar because of the heavier braking forces applied. street will teach you the technique but you'll need to recalibrate for the harder braking and, eventually, longer pedal in a race car.

LFB is a lot more consistant street to track. definately practice up before trying it at the track.

[tac911t]

I would LFB while autocrossing all the time when driving front wheel drive cars. After autocrossing some rear wheel drive cars, I started to also LFB those. When I started racing, it was an easy transition to LFB at times for some corners.

I definitely LFB at VIR turn 4 and Hog Pen (bottom of the Rollercoaster). I like the idea at VIR turn 10, and I may try it at 14. At 14 I found myself trailbraking, LFB may be another option.

[iambhooper]

I started LFB'ing b4 I got the 1st race car. I LFB everything, minivan, Land Rover, street car's, race cars. However, I think I let it get the best of me the last time I was at the track... and driving like I was on the street, and lifting while braking. Then again, so much went wrong I can't be certain.

hoop

[JeffYoung]

One useful technique when your brakes fail is two foot braking.

[DoubleXL240Z]

Thats BFB!!!

[mf285284]

It would be more practical if these cars had dogs instead of synchros. Watch a foot cam of montoya at a road course all left foot.

But if your going to try it at any track it would lime rock, one turn for downshifting.

[boywonder]

Some people have issues when they first try it, if they have driven manual transmissions for a long time, where their left foot decides to do the clutch thing, except on the brake pedal.

I had this issue...thankfully was first trying it out on the street w/o traffic around, but I nearly ejected myself through the windshield.

[Streetwise guy]

I used to lfb autocross in my 82 Camaro, mostly to quicken the transition from go to stop. Stock car(fwd), I've really improved my corner exit speed- easy to modulate the brake to set the car on corner exit. Roadrace, I've thought about it, but my home track I think I'd be stretching a bit to find a place to do it- might try the chicane this year....

Every now and then my stock car jumps out of gear. First few times it did that with my left foot on the brake was not good in any way.

[Kai Noeske]

I started trying it when I drove along the windy Great Ocean Road in Australia for a few hours - car was an automatic. I continued in my daily driver (also automatic) and after a few weeks, I had gotten so used to it that I would always drive like that. I feel a lot more in control, having brake and throttle accessible at the smae time, and it feels so much smoother. This was especially helpful at autocrosses.

With the track car (standard 5 spd sync'ed), I am trying because it feels just wrong having to take your foot all the way off the brake to transition to the throttle. Especially with the soft stock suspension, the "rocking period" during which the car is not well balanced feels long and jerky.

Regarding downshift braking zones - talked to an open wheel racer the other day who suggested I try left foot braking in those too, and downshift without the clutch, by just blipping the throttle correctly (gear-> neutral-> blip -> lower gear). Will try that one when I am alone on the road...

[Steven McWilliams Jr]

remember every single open wheel car, besides FV and F500 have a dog ring gear box, the only time the clutch is used is when they take off. It is possible for us to shift without a clutch but we have to do things a lot smoother. I can downshift without the clutch in the Honda, I actually started doing this on accident b/c I would pull the car into the lower gear before I had my clutch pressed in.

There really isn't anything wrong with trying this stuff on track, I learned how to drive a manual (well) and heel toe during my drivers school. It makes things more interesting.

Steven

[lateapex911]

I kinda disagree with the last point. Trying stuff on track that you can try elsewhere is the expensive solution. Every session costs money, and I'd prefer to be 'fine tuning" my skills as opposed to "hmm, I wonder what happens when I do THIS". Then there's the issue of driving like an idiot when others are close by and screwing their laps. Heel and toe? yea, practice on the street as much as possible. It will become second nature, and when you're on the track, you'll just need to adjust to the speed of the situation.

As for LFB while downshifting, Umm, yea, good luck with that. CAN it be done? Sure. Will the car like your learning period? Doubt it.* In the grand scheme of things, I think that's a technique that might result in very slight...at best...improvements in lap times. I bet most of us have far larger areas to concentrate on which will yield much greater returns.

* People (not us bright racer types ;) often ask me, "Does downshifting my car to lose speed save wear on my brakes?" "Why, yes, it does, it saves you wearing out brake pads that cost $50. While increasing wear on your clutch which requires $500 and the removal of the drivetrain to replace".
Shifting without a clutch, on a non dogring trans is possible, but not kind to the transmission synchros and gears unless it is done just so.

[Flyinglizard]

LFB is required to get a good big motored car to tun in. The AS Camaro, Busch car, Vette, all are fastest when setup to push, so that more throttle can be applied. This does require a pedal dance to downshift , brake , and squeeze some power. Basically if the car turns in well, it cant take as much power on the way out.
For the FWD small cars, LFB can also be used to rotate the car a bit and I sometimes use it as a saftey button, esp in the rain. If the car gets too far sideways in the rain, I just pound the brake with the LFoot and spin straight up the track, Hopefully (and so far always) off of the wall. I love the rain..
If traction is very weak and you find the inside front tire spinning, jabbing the brake will slow the spin, applying more power to the more loaded wheel. MM

[Steven McWilliams Jr]

One thing I saw a driver do on Youtube. Right foot brake while downshifting, move his LF over and continue braking with his LF then get on the gas with his RF. This technique has the same characteristics as LFB (more control, turn the car better, on the gas sooner) but he can still downshift. I'll probably start trying this technique this year.

Steven
trying to find the video

[raffaelli]

Some people have issues when they first try it, if they have driven manual transmissions for a long time, where their left foot decides to do the clutch thing, except on the brake pedal. Much hilarity ensues. Practice on the street with no traffic around. ;)


LOLOLOL.:happy204:

I have done this when jumping from the M3 into the minvan. Makes life interesting in the back seats when loaded up with kids and MickeyD's after we have just pulled away from the drive thru.....

[RedMisted]

OK. Interesting discussion here. But as somebody noted above, not every hot shoe is a believer in LFB. Why is that?

Is it because not everybody is similarly ambidextrous? Do we all have the same motor capacity for the task but possess different levels of patience to learn new skills? Is it lack of confidence?

[JLawton]

OK. Interesting discussion here. But as somebody noted above, not every hot shoe is a believer in LFB. Why is that?

Is it because not everybody is similarly ambidextrous? Do we all have the same motor capacity for the task but possess different levels of patience to learn new skills? Is it lack of confidence?


I think it's just driving style. Some guys like their cars loose, some like them tight. Some down shift 4-3-2, some go 4-2.

[Kai Noeske]

One thing I saw a driver do on Youtube. Right foot brake while downshifting, move his LF over and continue braking with his LF then get on the gas with his RF. This technique has the same characteristics as LFB (more control, turn the car better, on the gas sooner) but he can still downshift. I'll probably start trying this technique this year.

Steven
trying to find the video

I saw the rally drivers' pedal dance on youtube too and figured that this had to be what they were doing; started trying it out in my car and it does not feel too unnatural. The most critical point is the hand...uh, footover of the brake pedal from the right to the left foot. Practiced with my automatic street car first because it has a much broader brake pedal, trying to not change pedal pressure while changing feet.

[Steven McWilliams Jr]

Yeah, I do it in my automatic street car too. The transition between the braking foot isn't as hard as it would seem.
Awesome driving accompanied by awesome 80's beats

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGIiarIrUCI

Steven

[Simon T.]

I honestly have trouble braking with my right foot. In an automatic I CANNOT brake with my right foot or everyone goes through the windshield. In a manual it's fine on downshifts and stuff but I primarily use my left foot. I think it's because I ran karts so much growing up you get use to it.

I'd say practice on the street, such as coming to stops, etc. In an automatic you can easily learn quickly. I think it's a good advantage to have in any car on the track really.

[joeg]

Great Video--once again a rally car, however.

It would be neat to ask Walter Rorhl whether he LFB'd the Trans AM Audis he raced here in the States.

Probably one of the greatest driver's ever and I had the privilege to watch him (win) at the Niagara Falls Grand Prix.

[Knestis]

One thing I saw a driver do on Youtube. Right foot brake while downshifting, move his LF over and continue braking with his LF then get on the gas with his RF. This technique has the same characteristics as LFB (more control, turn the car better, on the gas sooner) but he can still downshift. I'll probably start trying this technique this year.

Steven
trying to find the video

Yup. I do that in several places (e.g., top of Rollercoaster @ VIR, as above). It's subtle but I like having both pedals doing something. The worst situation is when the car gets static in a corner, where the car's attitude is such that neither the brake nor throttle do much to change the balance.

K

[shwah]

Great Video--once again a rally car, however.

It would be neat to ask Walter Rorhl whether he LFB'd the Trans AM Audis he raced here in the States.

Probably one of the greatest driver's ever and I had the privilege to watch him (win) at the Niagara Falls Grand Prix.

Hans Stuck said that this was key to getting the TA Audis to work. They had to keep the turbo boiling to get out of the corners fast. There is a pretty long video out there somewhere that talks about that program and includes comentary for Hans and maybe the Rohrl Wind himself...

[RedMisted]

Great Video--once again a rally car, however.

It would be neat to ask Walter Rorhl whether he LFB'd the Trans AM Audis he raced here in the States.

Probably one of the greatest driver's ever and I had the privilege to watch him (win) at the Niagara Falls Grand Prix.

That was some really fancy footwork in that video. If I didn't know Rorhl was driving a racing car, I would've thought he was dancing... Or had to go use the rest room in the worst way...:D

[Eagle7]

Wow, that vid drives me absolulely bonkers. Anyone else think it's totally insane to line the track with people? The race organizers should be in jail.

[joeg]

Euro rally Spectators are pretty nuts; but they are a bit better policed these days.

In Portugal in '86, I beleive, a bunch were killed by a Ford RS 200 and that was the end of those fire-breathing Group B Rally Cars.