In the market for a new race car [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

RacerBill

10-12-2010, 12:14 AM

OK, I'm ready to bite the bullet and jump into the market for a different race car. This one will be a ready-to-race. I have already had the build-it experience. Budget is extremely limited. ITA, B or C is ok, got lots of friends to race with in all classes.

Classified on IT Forum and Racingjunk.com look very thin.

Anybody know of anything on the market?

cjb25hs

10-12-2010, 12:40 AM

If you are interested in dark beer and kraut
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28398

If you want to be loyal to the MOPAR roots
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28408

RacerBill

10-12-2010, 02:29 AM

Thanks. I looked at both of those, and a little out of my price range (victim of the recession that was supposed to have ended before I lost my job).

dickita15

10-12-2010, 06:15 AM

Well various first gen rx7s show up on mens room walls from time to time for around $3k. Can’t get much cheaper than that.

Knestis

10-12-2010, 07:34 AM

What are your goals, Bill? What do you want to accomplish by the switch?

K

cjb25hs

10-12-2010, 09:55 AM

Bill, a friend of mine is selling an ita acr hillclimb car here in pgh. It was recently repainted and would need second door bars added and a killswitch to be legal. It currently has k sport coilovers that are crap, but he has koni yellows and an assortment of mopar springs that would go witj the car. The add can be foind on racepa.com as well as he has it advertised on roadraceautox. You can get it for under 3k

tnord

10-12-2010, 10:11 AM

Classified on IT Forum and Racingjunk.com look very thin.

really? because i see all sorts of stuff out there for silly cheap. what exactly are you looking for?

Russ Myers

10-12-2010, 11:25 AM

I bought a Pinto. If yor're going to get your ass kicked, do it real cheap.

Russ

rsportvolvo

10-12-2010, 01:05 PM

Buy cheap and win:

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28391

CRallo

10-12-2010, 01:23 PM

I bought a Pinto. If yor're going to get your ass kicked, do it real cheap.

Russ

this forum needs a "like" button! lol

that's my plan too, someone gave me the stock, 20 year old engine that is in my car now!

dhardison

10-12-2010, 02:02 PM

Buy cheap and win:

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28391

If I were in the market for an ITB car, I'd be ALL OVER this deal. (or a Honda.... :))

ITA_honda

10-12-2010, 02:52 PM

If I were in the market for an ITB car, I'd be ALL OVER this deal. (or a Honda.... :))

+1 for Honda :D

Z3_GoCar

10-12-2010, 03:05 PM

Bill,

Just wanted to say sorry about your motor blowing. How's the rest of the chassis?

924Guy

10-12-2010, 03:21 PM

Yeah, you need something very reliable and easy to drive, Honda would certainly fill that bill.

Al Stephenson (username Ned Stevens?) has his ex-Bildon GTI up for sale too - that's not only reliable and easy to drive, it's fast - is up here at Waterford. You just hafta like Orange. Then again, maybe that's a prerequesite for ITB Hondas too. ;)

Might be a bit more coin than a Honda though...

I do suspect you'd be better off with FWD for now, though, given your experience...

Best of luck buying and selling!

gran racing

10-12-2010, 03:24 PM

Yeah, you need something very reliable and easy to drive, Honda would certainly fill that bill.

The Swift is a nice deal but not what several consider easy to drive. Not so sure that's the car for Bill.

rsportvolvo

10-12-2010, 04:12 PM

benspeed

10-12-2010, 04:45 PM

I'd keep my eyes open for an ITS RX7 - second generation. You can get a good runner for $5K and these cars are proven winners, super reliable and fantastic fun to drive.

Here's a potential ITS 944 on Craigslist that is a pretty nice deal for $2700 but needs some finishing. Has the cage, camber plates and lots of goodies. I was told divorce was in the cards if I bought it for a winter project. I'd finish it up and sell for profit if approved by my 'supervisor'. :-)

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/1988548287.html

(I'm an old ITS guy, don't know much about A, B, C)

924Guy

10-12-2010, 05:14 PM

The Swift is a nice deal but not what several consider easy to drive. Not so sure that's the car for Bill.

110% agree.

Bill - remember the red Prizm that took out my teammate last weekend?? If I'm not mistaken, that's the same or similar platform. That guy hasn't yet managed to keep it under himself for a whole weekend without spinning out, hitting others etc. :mad1:

fornetti14

10-12-2010, 05:58 PM

My ITB '83 GTI is for sale $2k takes it.

plymouthfirearrow

10-12-2010, 08:40 PM

How about a brand new ITB Plymouth FIre Arrow? This car is race ready and has all the good stuff. It IS BRAND NEW...I ran it at the time trials in Atlanta to shake the car down and it was fast. This car was built by Doug Smith a 5 time Atlanta Pro It champion and it has every trick to go fast. I have his championship car and would be willing to part with the new one with plenty of spares. Check it out at www.plymouthfirearrow.com

tac911t

10-12-2010, 08:50 PM

My 1984 Nissan 200SX is still available. Lots of spares, price is negotable.

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26832&highlight=200sx

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 10:31 AM

What are your goals, Bill? What do you want to accomplish by the switch?

K

Good, reliable car, mid-pack would be fine, good upgraded suspension, at least presentable - does not have to be drop dead georgous. VERY limited budget.

Asked my the guy who did my engine (I would not call it 'built') for an engine that would last but be a little better than stock, and it lasted not even three complete weekends.

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 10:39 AM

Bill,

Just wanted to say sorry about your motor blowing. How's the rest of the chassis?

The rest of the car is in great shape. Frame rails could use some jacking plate....Oh I mean repairs. And I am not the world's best body man so the panels don't line up exactly, but I was doing the work all by myself with no experienced help (read didn't know what I was doing!!!). I was careful enough to put packing tape on both sides of the passenger door glass so that if the door got hit, the glass would be easier to clean up.

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 10:59 AM

I would think an engine rebuild is much easier than a new race car. The existing knowledge and spares should account for something.

I would use the MOPAR 2.2/2.5 FWD manual and regroup.

http://www.southeastrt.net/catalog/index.php?cat=15&item=468

When I blew a head gasket last year, I decided to try that route. Found a local race engine builder that seemed to know what he was talking about. $2300 later, I had an engine that lasted three weekends (never got over 200 degrees, or over 6000 RPM) and did not seem to have any more power than the old engine. It sounded great, though. However, when I first tried to start it, we found that the timing gears were so far out of alignment that the only way it would run was to rotate the plug wires one position on the distributor.

I have enough skill to change the head gasket, but other than that, no experience bulding/rebuilding engines. I chased a leaking thermostat housing for two days before the nut behind the wrench figured out that a stud that located the oil dip stick tube was put in backwards and was bottoming out in the head, preventing the housing from getting drawn up tight and sealing. BTW, I've had the MOPAR manual since before I got the car home.

I was hoping to be able to put some money into the suspension, but that would have to go on the back burner until the engine was made right. Now, if the builder would make the engine right, like he should have done the first time......

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 11:00 AM

My ITB '83 GTI is for sale $2k takes it.

You don't know how hard I am thinking about it!!!!!

What times did it run at Mid-Ohio?

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 11:03 AM

110% agree.

Bill - remember the red Prizm that took out my teammate last weekend?? If I'm not mistaken, that's the same or similar platform. That guy hasn't yet managed to keep it under himself for a whole weekend without spinning out, hitting others etc. :mad1:

Is that what happened to the 55? Yeah, looking at the results sheet, I see it there.

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 11:08 AM

My 1984 Nissan 200SX is still available. Lots of spares, price is negotable.

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26832&highlight=200sx

Thinking about this one, too.

downingracing

10-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Good, reliable car, mid-pack would be fine, good upgraded suspension, at least presentable - does not have to be drop dead georgous. VERY limited budget.

Asked my the guy who did my engine (I would not call it 'built') for an engine that would last but be a little better than stock, and it lasted not even three complete weekends.

Bill, if you spent the number You told me on Sunday for that motor - we really need to talk. I'm on season 3 or 4 with my built motor and it is still awesome! All the fail my car has is the driver!!! You should be able to get a solid and reliable car on the cheap! I know of an ita neon for sale and another one that is very close to showroom stock (but running ita) that will be available soon... Child's neon for the price is a smoking deal. Consider spending a bit more up front for a truely race ready car. Will save you money in the long run!!!

Knestis

10-13-2010, 12:39 PM

lateapex911

10-13-2010, 01:27 PM

Yea, I've been reading this thread, with the same "baby with the bath water" concept Kirk seems to have.

Now, you might decide the Dodge isn't the 'thing" to have, and that by the time you redo the suspension etc etc to make it a more competitive ride, you could have easily just bought an existing car......(see, Improved Touring advice to newbies #1: Buy, don't build)...but, there WILL be costs associated with a changeover.

Maybe the seller will include such unique things with the deal. Something to be aware of.

rsportvolvo

10-13-2010, 01:56 PM

When I blew a head gasket last year, I decided to try that route. Found a local race engine builder that seemed to know what he was talking about. $2300 later, I had an engine that lasted three weekends (never got over 200 degrees, or over 6000 RPM) and did not seem to have any more power than the old engine. It sounded great, though. However, when I first tried to start it, we found that the timing gears were so far out of alignment that the only way it would run was to rotate the plug wires one position on the distributor.

I have enough skill to change the head gasket, but other than that, no experience bulding/rebuilding engines. I chased a leaking thermostat housing for two days before the nut behind the wrench figured out that a stud that located the oil dip stick tube was put in backwards and was bottoming out in the head, preventing the housing from getting drawn up tight and sealing. BTW, I've had the MOPAR manual since before I got the car home.

I was hoping to be able to put some money into the suspension, but that would have to go on the back burner until the engine was made right. Now, if the builder would make the engine right, like he should have done the first time......

If money is the issue here your best bet is to get a junkyard engine and rebuild it yourself. It may take some time and might not be a 10/10ths build, but with help from racer's around you you'll have a reliable engine for several seasons.

And... boycott that engine shop in the future if they fail to help you out.

gran racing

10-13-2010, 02:13 PM

What did the engine shop say when you spoke with them? I realize that there are no guarantees, but a reputible shop typically would at least make some allowance or see how damage the engine truly is.

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 02:40 PM

Guys, Thanks very much for the support you have given me. All of you have given me fresh insight into issues I am facing which ever path I take. I am still composing myself and the communication I am going to have with the engine builder. The good thing is that I have until next April or May to get something done. Keep those ideas comin!

gran racing

10-13-2010, 03:48 PM

So you haven't spoken with the engine builder yet?

rsportvolvo

10-13-2010, 04:30 PM

When I blew a head gasket last year, I decided to try that route. Found a local race engine builder that seemed to know what he was talking about. $2300 later, I had an engine that lasted three weekends (never got over 200 degrees, or over 6000 RPM) and did not seem to have any more power than the old engine. It sounded great, though. However, when I first tried to start it, we found that the timing gears were so far out of alignment that the only way it would run was to rotate the plug wires one position on the distributor.

I have enough skill to change the head gasket, but other than that, no experience bulding/rebuilding engines. I chased a leaking thermostat housing for two days before the nut behind the wrench figured out that a stud that located the oil dip stick tube was put in backwards and was bottoming out in the head, preventing the housing from getting drawn up tight and sealing.

The two items you mentioned above in bold are GREAT reasons to stop everything and take the engine back to the builder. In hindsight don't assume the shop did the right thing and band-aid the setup to make it work. In the end you'll lose, case and point.

Z3_GoCar

10-13-2010, 10:34 PM

For what it might - or might not - be worth, Bill, I think you're proposing a solution that doesn't match your problem.

If you blew up an engine in three races, that's an "engine builder problem," unless there's something WAY odd about those MOPARs that I don't understand. Replacing the entire box that the engine goes in isn't going to fix that, particularly since regardless of what you buy you're getting an unknown quantity in the NEW powerplant.

The "transactional costs" of changing marques is going to be a huge impact on a small budget. Special tools (got the VW-necessary rear caliper adjuster? Double square drive for the CV joints? Big thing for the head bolts?), wheels, spares, and most importantly know-how... They all cost $$.

K

While that's a good point about changing horses mid-stream. Having been a motor builder in a previous career, and having rebuild several odd-balls. Many GM, Chrysler, and even some Ford motors of this era have unique problems that may prohibit them from being successfuly rebuilt like their predecessors from the 60's. Try finding a torque plate/ring gear for a '76 Capri II, I was in the biz when I went looking and what I found was a gear that matches the domestic starter, not the Bosh starter. How about head bolts that bottom out when the block or head is decked. Or there's the rocker arms wearing out in the 2.2 chrysler. The fact is Bill's choosen an unusual car and there comes a point where it's no longer supportable because the numbers just aren't there to keep it rolling. In the interest of his having fun I think he should consider the ITC GTi for $2k sounds like a deal...

RacerBill

10-13-2010, 11:48 PM

So you haven't spoken with the engine builder yet?
No, I wanted to really go over in my mind just what I am going to say and what I want him to do. Don't want to cause any more problems. I was angry enough at him the last time I saw him after the incident with the timing.

RacerBill

10-14-2010, 12:07 AM

The two items you mentioned above in bold are GREAT reasons to stop everything and take the engine back to the builder. In hindsight don't assume the shop did the right thing and band-aid the setup to make it work. In the end you'll lose, case and point.

The first issue I had with the engine was the timing. The builder did not have the shop to fix the issue inhouse, and I did not want to have to pull the engine out of the car. So, he arranged with another auto repair shop to re-time the crank, cam and intermediate (distributor) shafts. And you're right, with that kind of mistake, there are a lot of other things that could have been done wrong. That is why, at a minimum, I am going to insist that he disassemble the engine, in my presence, to find out what happened.

I can only guess what the issue is, but there was still three qts of oil in the pan, and no external holes anywhere. Also, once a long time ago, I had a piston disentegrate, so I know what that sounds like, and there were no real loud sharp sounds - the engine just kind of went flat and then there was smoke. I suspect rings, but I guess I could have dropped a valve. Anyway, I hope it's in the bottom end as I have a good block that I can put the new head on, and be back in action reasonably soon.

The issue with the thermostat housing was my error, not the engine builder. I only mentioned it to point out how new to this aspect of the game I am. Hey, this thing is only 1.5in long, has a bolt head in the middle instead of on the end and the threads on both ends are the same. Who would have thought that one threaded end was longer than the other! But I will never make that mistake again!

RedMisted

10-14-2010, 01:00 AM

I've been following along here, and I just wanted to ask, what might be the usual percentage gain in horsepower for an IT-built engine?
I'm running around with a "junkyard" motor in my car, and it seems to be doing really well. The previous motor lasted for 7 seasons before the bottom end went, and it was a stocker as well...

gran racing

10-14-2010, 05:53 AM

Depends on the car but the classification process assumes around 25% gain.

JLawton

10-14-2010, 07:07 AM

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here..........

Bill's got a car that needs a lot of development. It needs a new engine, it needs a suspension and it sounds like it needs some frame work. Add up those costs. All that money in a car that may not ever be competative.

Sometimes you need to cut bait.

We always say, "Buy, buy, buy, don't build!!". Even though Bill is not a newbie and knows what he's getting into, he is almost starting from scratch.

Chris's car seems like a deal. I don't think you can buy a faster car for the money. Everyone knows that Chris doesn't do things half assed. (Chris, you can send me 10% of the sale price once it's sold! :D) AND, you've got a car that's ready to race tomorrow. No assembly needed.

This is a tough decision Bill. I think we've all been there at one time or another so we feel for ya! Hang in there and good luck!!

joeg

10-14-2010, 07:51 AM

Bill--Did you ever put that car on a Chassis Dyno to tune it??

RacerBill

10-14-2010, 09:50 AM

Bill--Did you ever put that car on a Chassis Dyno to tune it??
I had all the best intentions of doing that, but time got away from me (I swear that I had more time to do things before I retired!). But I will put away the time and money to do that as soon as I get running again. :)

steve b

10-14-2010, 02:29 PM

My ITB '83 GTI is for sale $2k takes it.

I'm NOT in the market for a racecar and that sounds like a good deal. Jump on it.

If in fact you are a glutton for punishment... I think I know where an MR2 can be had for about $3K.

RedMisted

10-14-2010, 03:37 PM

Depends on the car but the classification process assumes around 25% gain.

Wow. I thought the expected bump might be around 15%. Better get that race motor built!

CRallo

10-14-2010, 05:11 PM

Wow. I thought the expected bump might be around 15%. Better get that race motor built!

25% is the total gain that IS expected from a TYPICAL full IT engine build, but this includes all the external bolt-ons including exhaust, intake, computer/tuning, etc. A portion of this I assume you already have done...

fornetti14

10-14-2010, 06:23 PM

You don't know how hard I am thinking about it!!!!!

What times did it run at Mid-Ohio?

Never ran Mid-Ohio with it. Just test and tunes at Gingerman the last 3 years.

Car dyno'd at 83 hp at the wheels.

RedMisted

10-15-2010, 12:11 AM

25% is the total gain that IS expected from a TYPICAL full IT engine build, but this includes all the external bolt-ons including exhaust, intake, computer/tuning, etc. A portion of this I assume you already have done...

Well, I've done all the peripherals and given theoretical 15% driveline losses, I should top out at 203hp at the wheels. I'm already at 195 or so horsepower... Does this mean that if I have the motor itself optimized for performance I'll only gain 8 more hp? :(

lateapex911

10-15-2010, 01:13 AM

Well, I've done all the peripherals and given theoretical 15% driveline losses, I should top out at 203hp at the wheels. I'm already at 195 or so horsepower... Does this mean that if I have the motor itself optimized for performance I'll only gain 8 more hp? :(
Maybe. Maybe less. Maybe more. Your car might be an overachiever. The Process is a big picture view, but each individual car has no guarantee of hitting exactly 25%..

There are a myriad of tricks and details that yield HP at the rear wheels. Some cars respond well to some of them. Some cars respond very well to a balance and blueprint, others, not so much. Sniff around and see what the experts on your engine have to say.

But, just off the top of my head, folks have done things like this to chase 'full build" power.

Test multiple heads to find the stock examples that flow best.
Test Multiple intakes to..." " " ".
Buy buckets of stock pistons to find the lightest and balance to that.
buy Buckets of XXX part, to find the lightest and ..." " " ".
Build may headers looking for the best toque curve and Hp.
Build extravagant cold air boxes to pull the most volume of the coldest air.
Tweak engine oil pumps for proper pressures.
Install crank scrapers.
Spend days dyno tuning with the ECU to build the best fuel/timing curves.
Tweak fuel pressures and control fuel temps.
Reduce rotating masses wherever possible.
Improve cooling and flow efficiency.
Flow bench all porting mods.
Reduce driveline rotating mass.
Reduce internal engine drag.

And on and on....that's just off the top of my head...and a good engine builder has a far far better list. (But, he keeps his mouth shut, no doubt)

gran racing

10-15-2010, 08:03 AM

25% is the total gain that IS expected from a TYPICAL full IT engine build,

Ohhh! Thanks for clarifying that. Yeah, not 25% from just the build - sorry about that. For my particular car, those extra bolt ons helped but it was the engine build portion that really brought it all together and is when I saw the gains. My engine saw about 12 hp gain, more in torque which to me is huge especially when talking at the wheels. Like Jake said, every engine will respond differently. Maybe your engine responds well to the simple improvements like a good header, exhaust, and intake?

RedMisted

10-15-2010, 02:46 PM

Thanks Dave and Jake for the replies.
I've been all around the car but the engine is basically virgin territory for me. A problem with my car is that nobody else that anyone knows of is road racing a 3.8 liter V6 Mustang. Now, while there are drag race engine builders out there who may have constructed a few of these motors for the quarter-mile, I'd doubt that I'd use their help. I'd hate to be the guinea pig here for anybody else that is thinking of building a car like mine, but I guess that's the price of being an oddball...

gran racing

10-15-2010, 03:09 PM

Time for you to do some research. Speak with people are familiar with your Mustang. American Sedan drivers? NASA? GrandAm? Call a few shops up to see what types of gains they'd estimate. You should be able to get a general feel for things.

shwah

10-15-2010, 03:16 PM

My machine shop AMT Racing Engines does mostly drag stuff. They have done a decent job for me, Mathis and Albin over the years. In my case they did all the machine work and Chuck did the building.

Don't be so quick to discount those types of shops, just make sure they know what you are trying to accomplish and what the restrictions of the class are.

ShelbyRacer

10-18-2010, 12:56 PM

The Swift is a nice deal but not what several consider easy to drive. Not so sure that's the car for Bill.

One could say the same about his current car. While I would not consider my car to be 100% developed, it's pretty darn close. It is most certainly a task to drive, and at times can be downright scary.

At the same time, I can tell you that we could probably get Bill's car significantly faster for less money than swtiching to a new car, and make it not so much of a "ragged edge" car.

I always recommend the buy-vs.-build for newer drivers, but I'm not sure in this case that it would be the best way to go. In the price range you're looking at, Bill, you might be buying someone else's problem, or something that'll take more work then yours to make reliable. I don't know the cars in question, so please don't anyone take that as a cut on their car that may be for sale.

RacerBill

10-18-2010, 01:53 PM

Matt: Thanks for the note. You are right - the devil that you know is more likely to be better than the devil you don't know! I have plenty of time to get something together for next year, so I think this will be my plan of attack:

1) I have the engine that came out of the car at the end of last season, at minimum I know I will have to replace the head gasket which is a job that I know that I can do. So I think that I will tackle that and see if the block or head have to be decked. That will get me to where I was maybe two years ago, but at least with a reliable car.

2) Disassemble the new engine and see exactly what went wrong. If the head/valves were not damaged then they could go on the old block, which would then be an improvement there.

At least that would give me a car that would be a turn-key if I decide to go out and purchase a different car.

At this point I would need to decide to keep or sell.

If I keep, then I think that the next step would be to upgrade the entire suspension with camber plates, coil-overs, and shocks.

BTW, Matt - I don't remember, does your Shelby have a bar between the front shock towers?

If I decide to switch, then I can start looking seriously at options. Right now there doesn't seem to be too much out there.

Thanks again to all for all the great input. I value your ideas and am taking all of them into consideration.

rcc85

10-18-2010, 06:32 PM

Someone once said "The cheapest race car is the one you already own".

Bill, did you say that the engine went flat and it was smoking?

If it just went flat that could mean that the timing belt jumped a tooth, not unusual on the 2.2, but that wouldn't cause it to smoke. You might want to make sure the timing marks are aligned on the cam, crank and auxiliary shaft sprockets. I can check the cam/crank/auxiliary shaft timing with the engine in the car on the Daytona. I know the engine compartment is tighter on the Charger so that may not be easy.

If it's missing, you could have broken a lash adjuster (lifter) or displaced a cam follower (rocker arm). I've had both of the happen and it's a pretty easy fix. You might want to pull the valve cover and look.

If it's smoking badly, though, that's never good. It could be a broken ring (damaged during assembly), or a broken valve. You might get lucky. I broke a rod on a 2.2 once due to a spun bearing and didn't damage the block or the head. Ruined the crank, though.

Bob Clifton
#05 ITB Dodge Daytona

RacerBill

10-18-2010, 06:52 PM

Bob: Thanks for the note. I will check the timing on Thursday when I can bring the car back to the garage. Witnesses said that there was a bunch of smoke from the tailpipe. Examination of the plugs revealed lots of oil on plugs 1 & 2, oil and a piece of foreign matter (looked like gasket material or gasket sealer). Plug 4 could not be removed.

Thanks.

rcc85

10-18-2010, 07:07 PM

Bill, if the #4 plug won't come out, I'm pretty sure the piston has smashed a valve into it. Been there, done that. It's not pretty. Sorry.

Bob Clifton
#05 ITB Dodge Daytona

RacerBill

10-18-2010, 07:22 PM

Bob: Well, pulling the head will tell the tale. It's hard to believe that this would happen with only about 5 hours on the engine. However, the track record for the engine builder (not me) with this engine is VERY suspect.

924Guy

10-19-2010, 07:41 AM

My take on that bit of debris on the plug, I still stand by it being RTV. Doesn't belong in there though...

Seems like the engine repair should pretty much be free at this point...

Which means time to focus on getting that suspension replaced. You're not going to learn anything or get any faster till you can keep all 4 close to the ground; time for springs and shocks. Regardless of what engine goes in that car; I'd probably have a tough time breaking a 1:58 down there in that car...

So if you're going to expend any time/effort on doing anything more than just getting it to run again (to sell), you really need to have a serious plan to completely overhaul the suspension. Not by halves.

RacerBill

10-19-2010, 05:19 PM

I'm with you, Vaughn.

ShelbyRacer

10-20-2010, 03:06 PM

Remember Bill, when you're read to move on the suspension, talk to Matt and I. We can discuss several setups, AND (if my dealer accounts are still active- and they should be) I can get you really good pricing on the pieces you need.

As far as the engine, send me some pics when you get it apart. I have a shop around here that I really trust, and if need be, I can get you in on my tab there also. Perhaps we can meet up halfway to save on shipping. I also have spares (read- cores) here if needed.

Only bad thing is that when I come to MidO again, I don't want you kicking my ass out there. My first day on that track was pretty dismal, so I have a lot of work trying to tighten up the nut behind the wheel...

On your question Bill- we have no tower brace in the front. I actually believe that if you were going to do one, you'd get more benefit from a lower than an upper. I can also tell you that the suspension will give you MUCH more bang-for-the-buck than the motor will. I went down on power at two events this season, and at both I continued to turn very respectable times. Your current suspension is a much bigger issue than that old motor.

rsportvolvo

10-25-2010, 01:21 PM

Bill,

I noticed in another thread that you have "Phillips Racing Engines" in your signature. Now either you are trying to tell us the shoddy shop who built your engine inadvertently or you are foolishly supporting someone who built you a junk engine. Which one is it?

RacerBill

10-26-2010, 02:52 AM