Brake flaring tool options, plus how to block ports?

[marka]

Howdy,

I have a '95 Neon in ITA. I want to fit an adjustable proportioning valve.

The neon uses the modern double diagonal system, with OEM prop valves threaded into the master cylinder on the two right side outputs that go to the rears. I'm planning on plugging the two right side ports, then "un-diagonaling" the master cylinder by running the left rear port to the prop valve, then to a T, then to the rear calipers. I'll run the left front port to a T, then to the front calipers. I'm figuring on using regular steel 3/16" brake line and brass T's.

First, anyone know where to get block off fittings for 45 deg inverted double flare ports? The stock prop valves have one with a 3/8-24 thread output and one with a 7/16-24 output, both with 3/16" lines. The input side of the prop valve is some big thread diameter, with an o-ring that's capture in there. I'd love to block off directly at the M/C, but if that's not possible, I'd like to block off at the brake line port off the stock prop valves.

Second, I'm going to need to make my own lines for this, and I'm having trouble figuring out what flaring tool to buy. I need 45 deg inverted double flares. Most folks say the cheap $50 and under kits are junk and the pros seem to use MasterCool setups that are way out of my price range. Are there any intermediate range tools? Will I get reasonable results out of the cheap tools if I'm willing to spend a little more time and throw away some brake line?

Appreciate any help. Sorry if these questions have come up before. I searched, but didn't see anything.

Mark

[JeffYoung]

Mark, I replumbed my whole car. Amazing enough you can get almost all fittings at a "high end" auto parts store -- a good NAPA or here, the Carquest headquarters. If not, I think pretty much anything is available from Pegasus.

Second, you are correct in using regular steel. DO NOT use stainless. Way too hard to work with and is way more show than go.

Third, the cheap tools will work, but ain't the best. You will end up with some leaks and have to redo some stuff, and you will throw away a few sets of line cutters and flare tools before you are done (they bend easily).

I have a nice Eastwood flare tool kit that works great. It wasn't cheap, but I rarely use it and more than happy to mail it to you to borrow for a few months. PM me and I'll get your address and get it up to you.

Jeff

[Matt93SE]

I've been using the flare tool I bought at Autozone for several years now.
I basically did the same thing you're talking about on one car, Made a half dozen or so other lines for friends, and last weekend was using it to flare some 1/2" steel tube for another project.

so far I've only had one fitting leak that, and it was abotu the 3rd one I'd made- was still figuring things out.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Double-flaring-tool-set-includes-5-pcs-adapter/_/N-26gg?counter=1&filterByKeyWord=flaring+tool&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=864647_0_0_

Not bad for $20. :)

[benspeed]

I just re-did a bunch of lines on my motorhome. Bought the cheapo flare kit and I had to reflare two fittings - they failed visual inspection, but all the stuff I installed has been dry. Great skill to teach yourself.

[marka]

Howdy,



Second, you are correct in using regular steel. DO NOT use stainless. Way too hard to work with and is way more show than go.

Yeah, I saw your post on here during my search. That plus my cheapskate tendencies were all I needed. :-)



Third, the cheap tools will work, but ain't the best. You will end up with some leaks and have to redo some stuff, and you will throw away a few sets of line cutters and flare tools before you are done (they bend easily).

I have a nice Eastwood flare tool kit that works great. It wasn't cheap, but I rarely use it and more than happy to mail it to you to borrow for a few months. PM me and I'll get your address and get it up to you.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff! I'll give the cheapo set a shot first, and if I get frustrated with it I'll hit you up. I saw that Eastwood tool and thought it looked awfully good. You don't want to just sell it to me do you? :-)

Mark

[rsportvolvo]

Use copper nickel lines. Volvo introduced them to the automotive market and they are THE best solution. Cost is not much more than steel.

http://www.austinhealeywood.com/brakestory.html

For plumbing I always stick with Imperial, Ridgid, and Sykes-Pickavant. I never waste money on cheap tools. Inevitably I need to use it again and/or someone needs to borrow it.

[JeffYoung]

Mark, no problem. I would consider selling it.. just don't use it much anymore but I guess I may again in the future if I build a new car.

The Eastwood is Imperial brand. It's nice. The ratchet is high quality -- nicer than the Craftman top of the line stuff I have in the tool chest! never had any issues with it. Just solid, well made tool. Feels like it was made in the 60s.

[GTIspirit]

I've been using the flare tool I bought at Autozone for several years now.
I basically did the same thing you're talking about on one car, Made a half dozen or so other lines for friends, and last weekend was using it to flare some 1/2" steel tube for another project.

so far I've only had one fitting leak that, and it was abotu the 3rd one I'd made- was still figuring things out.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Double-flaring-tool-set-includes-5-pcs-adapter/_/N-26gg?counter=1&filterByKeyWord=flaring+tool&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=864647_0_0_

Not bad for $20. :)

I use a similar looking tool bought from NAPA, works great for the double bubble flares used on VW's and I've also used it for the more common inverted flares. Just make sure the brake line is clamped tight into the block because you don't want it to slip back when forming the flare.

Personally I prefer using the coated tubing, nygal/plastic?, which I bought years ago in a bulk roll from the VW dealer. The parts guy probably isn't aware of it so I'd have to look up the part number in my records if you're interested.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the tube nuts should match to the tubing. There are slight differences in the tube nut ID depending on if the tube nut is for coated or bare tubing, or metric or equivalent standard size tubing. You can always buy a section of straight tubing, with flare nuts, from your local parts place and cut and reflare the tubing to size.

Instead of blocking the ports, how about running two separate lines and prop valves to the rear? We did that on an ITB Rabbit and while it doesn't really offer any performance advantage of adjusting right/left rear bias, it did simplify the brake line routing a bit, i.e. keeping all four ports hooked up.

[marka]

Howdy,



Instead of blocking the ports, how about running two separate lines and prop valves to the rear? We did that on an ITB Rabbit and while it doesn't really offer any performance advantage of adjusting right/left rear bias, it did simplify the brake line routing a bit, i.e. keeping all four ports hooked up.

I thought about it and if I can't find the proper fittings to block the ports I might do it, but its another prop valve to buy and another thing that can get imbalanced between the two sides of the car. Blocking the ports and using T's just seems to be a cleaner overall approach.

Mark

[jimbbski]

Most folks say the cheap $50 and under kits are junk and the pros seem to use MasterCool setups that are way out of my price range.
Mark

I have used both the cheap and the great and prefer the great tool. I purchased a MasterCool flareing tool that does all SAE tube sizes up to 3/8 and does fuel line crimps as well. I got it for the low price of $250 from Eastwood on a close out price.
Using the cheap tool it takes me up to 10 minutes to make a double flare. What with the cutting, deburring, etc. that is requred to make sure the tubing gets flared correctly.
With the MasterCool I only need to deburr the cut end of the tube. The blance of the process takes me less then a minute to make a brake flare that matches factory made ones.

This is a tool that I will keep for lifetime and I have no fear that it won't last that long, it is that well made!

I can buy an add on kit that will give me the metric dies but found that the 3/16 SAE die does just fine. I'm not sure what the equivalant metric tube size it to 3/16 but it's so close in saze that I uaually buy SAE tube and use metric fittings. Never a leak.

[marka]

Howdy,

I ended up saying the heck with it and ordered the Eastwood $220 version that has a ratcheting head and seems to do single flares, double flares, and the bubble iso flares. We'll see how it goes.

Mark

[JohnRW]

Best option - Make friends with someone who has a Mastercool flaring tool.

15 years ago, I went nuts for about 3 weeks trying to get one of the "old, reliable" flaring tools (the ones like in the link above) to work correctly, as I was completely re-plumbing an old Z race car. Results looked really ugly, and wouldn't seal worth a crap.

Finally figured out that the little round die thingys were machined off-center, one side vs. the other. Well, howdy and wtf!. You could hold the little nib on one side, spin it between your fingers, and the dimple on the other side would wobble like a drunken frat boyl. Wtf! again. Apparently, I was the manufacturer's quality control staff, as they were quite surprised when I called them to bitch. Bite me, O#d F*&ge.

At present, that tool is tasked with popping open those "hard to crack" pistachios in the shop. That's all it's good for, imo.