NARRC Entry Fees

[Andy Bettencourt]

I would enter a second class and double dip if the second fee was 50% of the first.

Anyone else?

[lawtonglenn]

.

with Andy, I would also run a second group for half price

.

[Tkczecheredflag]

I would third that on the double dip.

[rhygin]

I might shift my work travel and show up and then register for 2 classes. Not bothering at present...

Kinda not goign to try for the Glan because 16 hours of towing for the very real possibility of 5- 8 green flag laps is not super-duper attractive... especially at $275 (guess) in towing gas alone. Now a NER-style double dip might...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Also, this event pay at the track or not? Usually it's not an option if it 'isn't an option'...but the supps read:


REGISTRATION AND FEES

Entry and Timing forms must be completed and returned with appropriate fee to the Registrar: Susan Ferretti-Lapham,
68 Taxter Road, Irvington NY 10533 or you may register online www.nescca.com/registration. Online entries are confirmed once
payment is received. Phone entries will not be accepted. A $50 late fee may be charged for entries not postmarked by September 25,
2010.

So - anyone who can make this happen? 2nd entry for $185? Revenue opportunity!!!

[lawtonglenn]

From the registration page:

"Complete Race Details
View my Confirmed Registration
Download this Event to MS Outlook
Or, Submit... entry for another car.

…Blah blah blah…

NARRC Runoffs New York Region LRP 10/1/2010 10-R-1292-S 365 375 0 0 0 50

…Blah blah blah…

Payment for this race can be paid at the track or mailed prior to the Event. (Emphasis added)
Garages are not available at this Event.

Return to the My Races Page"

.

[dtanthon]

Andy - contact the race chair - David & Susan Lapham. Sue is the Registrar as well.

216 so far, going to be some good racing!

[benspeed]

I'll double dip if it's 50% savings...

[raffaelli]

I have double dipped but sure would like to get some cash back.

[gran racing]

So is it pay at the track? That's what I planned on.

[tdw6974]

Andy - contact the race chair - David & Susan Lapham. Sue is the Registrar as well.

216 so far, going to be some good racing!

I do believe David is Elkhart Lake at this point. Although the F500 was thia am I think!

[Raceman77]

I read it as send it payment or pay at the track. So I would say as long as you registered before the deadline no added $50 correct

[Andy Bettencourt]

I'll double dip if it's 50% savings...

If we can get it done I will race you for beers in STU.

[CRallo]

If we can get it done I will race you for beers in STU.

with which car? :p

[Andy Bettencourt]

with which car? :p

The only one he would have a chance winning...the ITA car. :)

[benspeed]

If we can get it done I will race you for beers in STU.

The Bet is ON bro! Sort of a lose lose for me though. I should win and if I don't I never hear the end of it :blink:

[CRallo]

The only one he would have a chance winning...the ITA car. :)

Haha, ouch!

If the trash talking has commenced, does that mean the engine is done?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Haha, ouch!

If the trash talking has commenced, does that mean the engine is done?

No, it's only conceptual trash talk. dang!

[jpvonoy]

I'd love to double dip for half price!

[Tkczecheredflag]

Got a note from Susan Lapham - She asked me to post this.

The confusion is on my part. I specifically stated in the building the entry on the nescca site that pay at the track was not an option. This is where the confusion lies. The supps state that payment is to be mailed in. So if you can post a note on the IT board that the registrar will not penalize anyone who will be paying at the track. It is our fault.
Thanks,
Susan

[Andy Bettencourt]

Got a note from Susan Lapham - She asked me to post this.

The confusion is on my part. I specifically stated in the building the entry on the nescca site that pay at the track was not an option. This is where the confusion lies. The supps state that payment is to be mailed in. So if you can post a note on the IT board that the registrar will not penalize anyone who will be paying at the track. It is our fault.
Thanks,
Susan

I knew it read both ways.

How about a half price option for double dip?

[Tkczecheredflag]

I knew it read both ways.

How about a half price option for double dip?

Stay tuned I guess. I asked but I did not hear back on that issue.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Stay tuned I guess. I asked but I did not hear back on that issue.

I asked and she responded. I quote,

If the discount is offered, it will not be anything that good - 1/2 off.

I told her, PERFECT! I told her my second entry, in SPU, was contingent on that discount. If they don't chjoose to do it, I will only run ITA. Hopefully we will hear something and try and get it out to the masses

[benspeed]

I better call Susan. I spoke to her several weeks ago and she said I could pay at the track, no credit cards, but preferred it being mailed...:-(

[Greg Amy]

The Lapham's have historically always been "pay in advance". Don't know why; seems to me dealing with "pay at the track" is far preferable to "refund after the fact for no-shows"...but what do I know, I've never been a registrar.

I'm guessing if anyone thinks about it they can see the value in half-priced double-dips, but some folks truly don't understand the concepts of marginal revenue and profit, versus "costs" and "price"...

Good luck to all, I'll see y'all Saturday..."plenty of sunshine" according to the forecast...

[benspeed]

Yo Greg! We all want to hear about the Runoffs! Gotta post us an "Adventures of running and IT car in STU" story. I was really thinking about the Runoffs until funds began to diminish as result of having to divert racing dollars to wedding anniversary planning...

(OK it is a rainy Monday and I'm not doing much work here-I think I've going to brake my one day posting record)

[Greg Amy]

I've got daily reports I sent to a few people via email; I'll have to clean those up and post it on the Kakashi web site.

Cliff's Notes version: excellent event but way too long calendar-wise for the limited track time you get (about an hour-and-a-half for the whole week); shat-tons of awesome machinery and scads of money oozing down the paddock roads; great food, great beer, and great people (both within and without the track); highly amusing to have folks do double-takes of your car in Tech sitting next to cars like the Real Time World Challenge TSX (or when they go to use the no-go gauge to check your brake rotor size only to realize the gauge is a bigger diameter than your wheels); losing oil pressure 6 laps in ain't "priceless", it sucks.

But it's worth it. Everyone should do this track and event at least once before croaking.

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Can't wait for the details. Sounds like it was fun. Sorry to hear about the motor.

Estimate on cost for the adventure?

[Greg Amy]

Estimate on cost for the adventure?
Not too much.

- $450 entry fee;
- $100 paddock fee (required if you reserve a spot; I shared a third of three spots);
- ~$450 in travel fuel costs (I used an open trailer behind the Excursion, got 15 mpg);
- ~$350 accommodations (I shared a travel trailer at the track, delivered and picked up from a local RV place);
- $1M in beer and brats. Mostly beer*;
- A week of vacation time;
- Oh, and an engine. Which may cost me a lot more than I think...**

Honda paid $500 to start the race (and fed us lunch each day), and $100 for the paddock fee. So other than the entry fee and accommodations, I came out okay...

Good times.

GA

* Food costs wasn't bad, we did some grocery shopping and made sandwiches and had snacks around. As noted, Honda had lunch for its entrants each day and there were usually parties available each night (the welcome party was a nice combo of sausages/brats/dogs and a choice of Spaten Octoberfest or Busch Light...believe it or not, the Busch kegs kicked first...) So the only food we had to spend serious money on was breakfast (did you see my photo on Facebook of the "Brat Egger"?) and any extracurricular dinners we chose to do.

** Giving thought to installing a K20A2 in the front of the 'Teg for STL/STU. Seems like a better long-term strategy than building up another B18C1...

[JeffYoung]

Sounds like good times.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Cheaper than a trip to the ARRC! Honda money is awesome.

[benspeed]

Way cool Greg. I looked into a full on STU motor from Lindsey. Over $12K - gulp...ITR seems to be where I'll be sticking for awhile

[Greg Amy]

Ben, Super Touring is all about World Challenge; if you can afford to be competitive in World Challenge GTS, you have a decent shot at winning an STU national championship. This was dramatically illustrated as Real Time's Acura TSX exploded past me on the straights....quickly followed by an ex-Stasis Audi A4 turbo...

The STL proposal offers a minute ray of hope for under-2.0 liter cars, but this is generally not a cheap game... - GA

[dpc]

Hey Greg, you were there and a lot of racers wish they were, great job...dave

[benspeed]

Greg - I've got my ebay search reminder set for World Challenge cars. I figure it'd be WAY cheaper in the long run to buy a race ready WC Touring BMW to run STU than converting my 968.

[anthony1k]

Ben, Super Touring is all about World Challenge; if you can afford to be competitive in World Challenge GTS, you have a decent shot at winning an STU national championship. This was dramatically illustrated as Real Time's Acura TSX exploded past me on the straights....quickly followed by an ex-Stasis Audi A4 turbo...

The STL proposal offers a minute ray of hope for under-2.0 liter cars, but this is generally not a cheap game... - GA

In the August Fastrack,references to World Challenge have been crossed out. If I read this correctly all cars will have to comply with ST rules beginning next year. I think that's a good thing for club racers. No?

Another point worth thinking is that, as the rules stand at the moment, several turbocharged cars look attractive even with inlet restrictors.

[Greg Amy]

In the August Fastrack,references to World Challenge have been crossed out. If I read this correctly all cars will have to comply with ST rules beginning next year.
The current STx rules are pretty much a copy of the World Challenge rules (in fact, they had a World Challenge tech inspector at the Runoffs leading the STx scrutineering team), but it is very awkwardly written. The STx advisory committee did (IMO) a nice job on the re-write, keeping the concepts the same while leaning less on WC rules (did you notice the one where headlight use is REQUIRED in the rain?) and making it more along the lines of Club Racing format without having to refer to numerous other rulesets (you can imagine the hassle of dealing with innumerable rules options and VTS sheets.)

In the end, however, make no mistake that the general concepts are the same, and you'll need World Challenge level of prep to win.

Even with the restrictor turbo cars can - and will - win. And I really like the option of choosing your weight by restrictor size.

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

UPDATE ON TOPIC:

Those who are registered should have received an e-mail this morning with the entry list and a reminder that credit cards are not being accepted for payment at the event.

Also, Susan confirmed that there will NOT be a discount for a second entry. I repeat, will NOT.

[mossaidis]

^^ Andy - "Not" in this case, is a NOT a good word. Sorry to hear that... LRP just got more expensive.

tGA - can you fit a K24 (from a TSX) in your Teg?... I will speak no more. :)

[Greg Amy]

...Susan confirmed that there will NOT be a discount for a second entry. I repeat, will NOT.
Very short-sighted. I dare them to complain about lack of revenue while effectively rejecting free money...


tGA - can you fit a K24 (from a TSX) in your Teg?... I will speak no more. :)
Sure, it'll pretty much bolt right in! But that puts it in STU instead of STL, at 2640#. It would most certainly be a rocket ship (that's what's in that TSX that won...) - GA

[StephenB]

No credit cards... no bank cars either! Everyone must where their I love the 80's shirts!

On a more serious note I plan on only racing Saturday afternoon. Does anyone have the contact info on who I need to call to ask for permission to run. Normally if you don't qualify you need permission from the chief Stewart. (Dave Periman) I don't want to drive all the way down and be told " You can't run"

Thanks,
Stephen

PS: wow I am choosing to do 32 laps for 365 bucks plus travel! Yikes! Probably about $20 bucks per lap. Don't tell my wife or her entire family.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Very short-sighted. I dare them to complain about lack of revenue while effectively rejecting free money...



I feel the same way. Maybe I am part of the problem but I am withdrawing my STU entry because the Region won't offer a discount and try and help itself.

With 246 electronic entries, I guess they feel like they have enough money to cover costs. Make it 245.

I will make sure the NARRC Committee knows this is a potential source of revenue and try and get the Regions to develop pricing structures. Regional Executives will want to know if there is any real incremental revenue. How could there not be you ask? There are some people who will double dip regardless of cost. So you have to find double the amount of people that want to run two groups in order to net one dollar more.

I think there would be.

[Greg Amy]

Big thumbs-up, Andy.

[benspeed]

Ditto the thumbs up - sorta hard to believe that the Club don't want more entries and club revenue without taking on any additional costs...

[ner88]

Not sure what the NARRC comittee could do about a regions pricing??

Not taking credit cards has been an issue, it envolves a thrid party credit card company.
As many of you know we at NER do not accept credit cards on line because of a huge refund problem but then again we don't require payment in advance.

Why prepay? Probably because if it rains, as it did a few years ago, 30%(or more) of the entries won't show up and the region (NY in this case) can't afford to take the loss.

This is my opinion not necessarly the facts.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Not sure what the NARRC comittee could do about a regions pricing??



Why do you have to be argumentative Jerry? Tell everyone who makes up the NARRC committee.

The RE and Comp Chairman/Drivers Rep of each of the participating Regions. The people who have significant infulence into the pricing structure of each NARRC event - all on one e-mail list.

Geez.

[ner88]

Wasn't trying to be argumentative??? Give me a break will you....GEEZ

[StephenB]

Not sure what the NARRC comittee could do about a regions pricing??

Not taking credit cards has been an issue, it envolves a thrid party credit card company.
As many of you know we at NER do not accept credit cards on line because of a huge refund problem but then again we don't require payment in advance.

Why prepay? Probably because if it rains, as it did a few years ago, 30%(or more) of the entries won't show up and the region (NY in this case) can't afford to take the loss.

This is my opinion not necessarly the facts.

When dealing with OVER 85k in entry fees I would think they would WANT to use credit cards rather than carrying around all that cash and checks for the weekend. In the retail world we get less than 10% cash and less than .5% in checks. As far as pay at the track or in advance it has no impact on my decision to bail or not so that argument is pointless. Susan is in the banking business (vise president of a bank) so she must know something about why this region does it the way it does. I would think she is doing business in the most cost effective way...

As far as the double dip controversy I think it should be 1/2 entry BUT if the class becomes oversubscribed you don't get to race.. only the full paying customers get to race even if your faster and out-qualify the full paying customer. Seems simple to me and honestly has no impact on the other classes since track time isn't reduced like in other examples of 1/2 entry revenue that regions are trying.

Stephen

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jerry,

I just didn't know why you would ask that question. The NARRC Committee is made up of the people who make these dicisions for their respective regions - the ones that make up where we race most of the time. Coming from you, a NARRC committee member and guy who infuences pricing at all NER events, it didn't make sense.

Stephen,

Credit cards represent a loss of revenue for the privledge of their use. This event remember has traditionally been a pre-pay event. It's not this time simply due to a clerical error so they really never planned on hangling the cash/checks at the event. I bet this year they will see 90% checks and 10% cash at the window.

I agree 100% on your philosophy on the double dip. Your PRIMARY entry is 100%, your SECONDARY entry is 50% and available only as space allows.

[Greg Amy]

Why prepay? Probably because if it rains, as it did a few years ago, 30%(or more) of the entries won't show up and the region (NY in this case) can't afford to take the loss.
That doesn't follow: there's nothing in the supps that says you don't get a 100% refund if you don't show (unless I missed it?)

Therefore, the only additional revenue the region would get doing it this way would be from those competitors stupid enough to not request refunds after the event. On the other hand, if 30% (or more) competitors do bail on the event, by requiring payment in advance you're creating a shat-ton of work after the event via servicing all the refund requests...

From my perspective, doing it this way just requires a whole lot more effort, both before and after. - GA

[dickita15]

Jerry,

I just didn't know why you would ask that question. The NARRC Committee is made up of the people who make these dicisions for their respective regions - the ones that make up where we race most of the time. Coming from you, a NARRC committee member and guy who infuences pricing at all NER events, it didn't make sense.


Honestly Andy I think it is you that is being argumentative. The Narrc Committee has no authority over a region’s operations. A new guy might not understand that but I thought you would. NYR has always required prepayment. I agree it is not how I would do it but if you have an issue with NYR’s policies tell NYR.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Honestly Andy I think it is you that is being argumentative. The Narrc Committee has no authority over a region’s operations. A new guy might not understand that but I thought you would. NYR has always required prepayment. I agree it is not how I would do it but if you have an issue with NYR’s policies tell NYR.

Dick,

I think you may be combining two issues. I don't care about the requirement of prepayment, credit cards or how a Region collects it's money. The issue at hand is a discount for a second entry, or, 'double dip'.

The reason I said the NARRC Committee is that it is made up of the people who govern these issues for their regions. Am I wrong in saying that? The RE and the Competition Chair from the regions that make up the NARRC series are these people.

As a committee, sure, technically they have no authority. I get that. But submitting this idea to the NARRC committee is CERTAINLY getting it to the people who need to hear the idea in one stroke of the keyboard. AND, working together as a group to develop a program that runs concurrent with multiple regions would benefit the members.

If it's not, correct me so I can get it to the proper people.