Help need to pick a car (ITA-ITR)

[rasperin]

So I've recently finished "Go Ahead And Take The Wheel", I've worked with my doctor to get myself medically fit for racing, I've got my novice permit, done a few HPDE's and now I need a car. As he says in "Go Ahead And Take The Wheel" not all cars are built equally. I'm good with an upper front midline runner with some speed(ITA-ITR). I saw the mercury cougar in the for sale and have sent a serious email to him about that though I fear losing my ability to also drive in a club.

Anyways, I am on a limited budget at the moment, and even though the book says that's it's cheaper to buy prebuilt then build my own, I don't have to pay up front (also I fall into the nutz category). So my question simply is: What is a good-cheap car to start out with? Something that can run midpack with minor modifications beyond safety to start with and can run front of the pack after some real work has been put into it? I'm going through craigslist for a car and have so many options I don't even know where to start.

I don't even have a tow vehicle or ramp yet :O (though I can barrow a truck and I'll grab a ramp for 600dollars off of craigslist).

Thanks so much! Also leads (I've been through the classified section below) on great deals on prebuilt cars would be nice. I absolutely cannot go over 4-5k right now and hopefully can wait a few months before coming down to the final decision.

[dhardison]

I have a ITA/STU/STL Focus available for sale in your price range. The car is 100% ready to race and comes with TONS of spares including three additional sets of wheels/tires (drys & wets). Give me a call and I can make you a seriously good deal. Delivery arrangements can also be made to meet halfway between our locations.

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28189

Thanks,
Dan
seven four zero - five one three - nine four two eight

[JLawton]

So I've recently finished "Go Ahead And Take The Wheel", I've worked with my doctor to get myself medically fit for racing, I've got my novice permit, done a few HPDE's and now I need a car. As he says in "Go Ahead And Take The Wheel" not all cars are built equally. I'm good with an upper front midline runner with some speed(ITA-ITR). I saw the mercury cougar in the for sale and have sent a serious email to him about that though I fear losing my ability to also drive in a club.

Anyways, I am on a limited budget at the moment, and even though the book says that's it's cheaper to buy prebuilt then build my own, I don't have to pay up front (also I fall into the nutz category). So my question simply is: What is a good-cheap car to start out with? Something that can run midpack with minor modifications beyond safety to start with and can run front of the pack after some real work has been put into it? I'm going through craigslist for a car and have so many options I don't even know where to start.

I don't even have a tow vehicle or ramp yet :O (though I can barrow a truck and I'll grab a ramp for 600dollars off of craigslist).

Thanks so much! Also leads (I've been through the classified section below) on great deals on prebuilt cars would be nice. I absolutely cannot go over 4-5k right now and hopefully can wait a few months before coming down to the final decision.

Dave knows what he's talking about, learn by his mistakes!! :)

Seriously, I know it seems to make sense building especially when you're on a budget and especialy as a new driver......... BUT DON'T DO IT!!

To build an upper level ITA/ITS/ITR car it will cost you in the $30K - $60K range. But what usually happens in these cases is the builder gets half way through, gets discouraged and gives up. Or does enough to get the car on track, is super slow, gets discouraged and gives up........

In the NE, SE and upper mid west you can't take a car, throw in the safety stuff and expect to be mid back. Way too competitive.

Wait an extra couple of months and save up some money to spend the cash up front, or get a second job, or sell body fluids.....ANYTHING to buy up front. Maybe consider an ITB car? They are great to learn on. No better teaching tool than trying to drive poor handling, front wheel drive, momentum car. (Most ITB cars do handle well but start out poor and take a lot of fiddlin' to get there)

You can buy a ready to go, competitive ITB car for $4K. To get a competitive ITA car it's gonna cost $8K+. Again, "competitive" depends on what region your in.

Check out the results from races and see what models are popping up. That's a good way to see what the good cars are.

I don't mean to sound discouraging. Just trying to keep you from making the same mistake a lot of us made!! :blink:

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions. It's a very supportive, knowledgeable forum.

Welcome to the madness!!!

.

[gran racing]

Another thing I've learned the hard way is get a car that still has parts available. It's a major PITA racing a car where even fairly basic things can't be found easily, and quickly gets frustrating. I know in the book I stressed buying a car, but that was before this economy. Now, you can get even better deals and building seems even more crazy. Build your second car if you'd like to. Even if money weren't a factor, it is simply amazing how much time and stress building a car can be. I know, I know. I built my cars and still don't regret it. lol

If you're looking for a car, attend a couple of events before this season is over and approach some of the ITA - ITR drivers, ask them if they know of any cars for sale that fit what you're looking for. Word of mouth will probably be your best way to find something good, although there sometimes are good deals to be found here.

When you find something, feel free to post it up here. We're not bashful of giving our honest opinions. lol

On the http://www.GoAheadTakeTheWheel.com site, there's a new (free) mentor program where you can speak directly with people such as Jeff through e-mail / phone. In addition to posting here, it might be helpful for you to sign-up for that as well. But do feel free to post up questions as you have them. (Thanks for buying a copy of the book!)

[tnord]

rasperin -

i see you're in Olathe KS, i'm right up the road from you in Overland Park and would be happy to help with whatever you need. to start with i'll give some idea of what the different classes are like around here....ITB has seen a couple more VWs pop up and last race i think had 8 entries, though i'd say typical is more like 3-5. ITA is the biggest group by far, and not just because of SM crossovers, most miatas in ITA are real ITA cars...last race i think we had 16, but 11-13 is more normal. ITS doesn't have much of a field anymore, with sometimes zero entries, and i can't remember seeing more than 4. ITR is about the same, though there is one guy in a BMW who attends every race.

i think realistically you're looking at ITB or ITA. is your 4-5k number for a donor car before building into a race car, or is 4-5k your total budget right now? if 4-5k is your number for a donor vehicle then there are a BUNCH of really good options out there of already built cars in the $7-8k range Jeff mentions.

i'll leave it at that for now, but feel free to email me with whatever questions you have.

[email protected]

[tom91ita]

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28213

those are decent times for those tracks. those are the two closest tracks to me.

the final drive and limited slip are worth nearly $1K each.

[gran racing]

Umm, check out the car Tom mentioned. Looks nice.

[tnord]

i'd want to see the cage, but i agree it looks like a good place to start.

[erlrich]

Agree w/the last 3 - the CRX is one of the two cars I would buy for ITA if I were looking for another ITA car. Try to find someone who knows what to look for r/w/t general IT build requirements as well as CRX-specific items, and go look at that car. It should be a good mid-front pack car right off the bat, and has the potential to be a winner if fully developed and well driven.

[rasperin]

4-5k is my total budget unless someone knows of a place willing to give a loan :). tnord I really need to get with you sometime. I'd be willing to buy you lunch if you have sometime soon(I'm actually out in Shawnee now but same thing basically). Tom, let me talk to my wife about that crx si, I thought about that a lot but wasn't sure how well it would do since the holy book rates it as an ITB car. It may be a month or two before I can get those funds upfront but I'm def. interested since everyone says it'd be a great car :)!

[gran racing]

Isn't that the same CRX gen as the Moslers and Ajah? (Asking others.) If it is, that's model is a great ITA car.

Why not get some additional pictures? Several cage pics among those.

[rsportvolvo]

I've also read Mr. Gran's book (however I began my build WAY before reading the book) and my current detailed build budget is over $25k. That doesn't include labor for a lot of tasks beyond my skillset nor the little bits that can add up rather quickly (I can send you a copy). The end result will be exactly the car I want, but at a price. Also I already have several spare cars so it works out for me.

Since you don't have car(s) in hand and are interested in the higher levels of IT you are definitely better offer buying a car. There is a nice ITR S2000 in the classifieds section along with the other cars mention. I also recall someone looking for a new home for his fast ITA Integra.

[gran racing]

You'll have $25K for your ITB build? Wow.

[tom91ita]

but wasn't sure how well it would do since the holy book rates it as an ITB car.........

what do you mean it is an ITB car?

dave g., yes appears to be the same basic platform as the ITA car the Moser's run. the '88 is considered the best from a weight viewpoint but update/backdate can fix most anything.

tom, who has had an 88 in his various garages since 1996 and thought twice before posting up the link to this thread.............

[rasperin]

I could have sworn I read it as an ITB in the rules pdf. Gimmie a few minutes I'll double post with a correction. I am curious if certain modifications upgraded it to an ITA.

[rasperin]

Whoops, wrong year that's why. I overlooked it in ITA and saw 84-87 in ITB :O. Sorry about that, though I had no doubt yours was an ITA I was just wondering if certain changes that push a car to max changes might cause it to move up a rank.

Which still stands as a question, but I'm going to guess probably not on that.

[erlrich]

I was just wondering if certain changes that push a car to max changes might cause it to move up a rank.

Which still stands as a question, but I'm going to guess probably not on that.

The only thing you could do to the car that would cause it to change classes would be to do an engine swap - in this case the '88-'91 CRX is actually classed in both ITA and ITB, and unless I'm mistaken the only difference is the engines. I believe the '94-'00 Integra is in the same boat, classed in ITA and ITS, with engines being the only (or primary) difference. It's a Honda thing actually...

[rsportvolvo]

You'll have $25K for your ITB build? Wow.

So far it's in the $25k range. I'm keeping tabs on everything purchased down to nuts and bolts as my budget also doubles as my bill of materials. Since my car is now a bare shell and getting built up I'm using mostly new and rebuilt parts so as not to have any issues with parts of unknown history. This budget also includes personal safety equipment too. I'll send you a copy to look over.

[Steven McWilliams Jr]

I'd take a look at the focus above, and look for a CRX/Civic. I bought my Civic for 3800, and after my 3rd race in it, it's running mid-front pack pretty well. ITR cars are expensive to maintain because they are high performance cars, look for something in ITB/A

Good Luck,
Steven

[rasperin]

So far it's in the $25k range. I'm keeping tabs on everything purchased down to nuts and bolts as my budget also doubles as my bill of materials. Since my car is now a bare shell and getting built up I'm using mostly new and rebuilt parts so as not to have any issues with parts of unknown history. This budget also includes personal safety equipment too. I'll send you a copy to look over.

I'd actually be interested in this, but a big price tag like that would keep me away from that. I've sent an email about the crx but fully well I'm still looking a few months down the line which doesn't help someone whose motivated to get the thing moved :/. Deals come and go either way I can't wait to get out there next spring :) ! Thanks everyone!

[rsportvolvo]

I know many folks who refuse to count it all up because they don't want to know how much it actually costs. Plus it gives them plausible deniability when confronted by their wife/girlfriend. Once I'm finished you could build a replica of my car using my budget.

[Miata49]

I know many folks who refuse to count it all up because they don't want to know how much it actually costs. Plus it gives them plausible deniability when confronted by their wife/girlfriend. Once I'm finished you could build a replica of my car using my budget.
Quoted for truth!
I stopped counting at $18k on my ITA Sentra.

[worthyking]

For a budget car you might look at a Neon. I paid $2850 for mine (DOHC ACR), fully prepped and ready to race. I have run it all season so far (8 or 9 race weekends, including two enduros) and the only thing I have had to spend money on is tires & brake pads. They are super reliable and parts are abundant and, most importantly, CHEAP! Like a sewing machine she just runs and runs and doesn't complain.

It is a mid-pack car with me driving (first season) but there are a couple guys who run near the front in their Neons (Daryl Pritchett and Mark Montero). Both of theirs are SOHC engines though, so they run 200lbs lighter than I do.

The platform is not the best, so we will probably never be able to compete fully with the Acura Integras and some of the better built ITA Miatas, but we get out there and have fun. Best finish in class this season was third though in an enduro so you never know...