Pro IT Race - WGI - July 24-25, 2010

[dtanthon]

Pro IT Series Round 5 in conjunction with the
2010 July Sprints Regional (NYSRRC / double NARRC)

Registration is open on www.NeSCCA.com (http://www.NeSCCA.com)

7/24-25/2010

Hosted by the Glen Region at Watkins Glen International

Saturday - Qualifying
Sunday - First race of the day

Sanction Number - 10-R-1167-S (IT)
Supps (http://www.nescca.com/registration/Supps/10-R-1167-S.pdf)
Count (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount2.asp?ID=165483914)

[Kai Noeske]

Signed up - car and driver won't be too competitive but it will be so much fun :026: :eclipsee_steering:

[dtanthon]

23 days till the event and we have 26 cars entered. Going to be a great race!

I even see Tim K. registered, fast Acura, back from robbing the rich and giving to the poor, we need to hear some stories about Robin Hood. By the way Tim, I'm poor.

Send me a PM (darrell at darrellanthony dot com) if you have not received your prize checks. All have been mailed. Check under www.NJRRS.com (http://www.NJRRS.com) under Pro IT Series Points for your points and funds won. We will have the points updated on ProITSeries.com (http://www.proitseries.com)shortly, Matt Rooke of Propel Web Design (http://www.propelwebdesign.com/)is training the Administrator (me) how to update that on the Pro IT site.

Look for the NJMP race in August to be posted soon on DLBRacing.com.

[Tkczecheredflag]

23 days till the event and we have 26 cars entered. Going to be a great race!

I even see Tim K. registered, fast Acura, back from robbing the rich and giving to the poor, we need to hear some stories about Robin Hood. By the way Tim, I'm poor.

Send me a PM (darrell at darrellanthony dot com) if you have not received your prize checks. All have been mailed. Check under www.NJRRS.com (http://www.NJRRS.com) under Pro IT Series Points for your points and funds won. We will have the points updated on ProITSeries.com (http://www.proitseries.com)shortly, Matt Rooke of Propel Web Design (http://www.propelwebdesign.com/)is training the Administrator (me) how to update that on the Pro IT site.

Look for the NJMP race in August to be posted soon on DLBRacing.com.

Leaving the The Band Of Merry Men (and Woman) and coming back to my roots. Taking a hiatus from trees, telephone poles, boulders and potholes - the rally world - might need some help getting reaquainted - can"t wait. Hoping to bring some loot Darrell - KLEER Trim Board Lumber T's., this years new rally sponsor - best I can do.

I'm feelin' the love already.

[JLawton]

A little OT, sorry. Do they allow dogs at WGI?

[tdw6974]

A little OT, sorry. Do they allow dogs at WGI?
Yes Leashed under control, Clean up:blink: etc Owner assumes all liability. T W:eclipsee_steering:

[dtanthon]

18 days out and we have 38 cars registered. Going to be a great race.

If I don't have your W9 you can get it from the www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com) website under the Driver Resources tab.
If you have NOT received your prize checks yet please send me a PM at darrell at needmoreracing.com and I'll get it out to you.

[CRallo]

A little OT, sorry. Do they allow dogs at WGI?

not if they are named Jeff... and especially not if they are named Joe! :D

[gran racing]

Somehow Chris must have found a loop hole to get in.

[dj10]

How long is qualifying for the ProIT and will there also be a 7 lap qualifying race for it?

[dtanthon]

Should be the same schedule as last year.

30 minute qualifying just before lunch on Saturday. No qualifying race on Saturday.
Sunday's race is after hardship practice, first race of the day.

[dtanthon]

11 days till the event and we have 48 cars registered.

ITR - 10
ITS - 11
ITA - 6
ITB - 8
ITC - 0
SM - 13

I will not be at this event, give your W9 to Terry. You can get the W9 from the www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com) website under the Driver Resources tab.
If you have NOT received your prize checks yet please send me a PM at darrell at needmoreracing.com and I'll get it out to you.

Also, the final rounds at NJMP in August will be only Saturday and Sunday, same amount of track time (200 minutes) just in 2 days, no Friday. As of now it is just ARCA and Pro IT that weekend. Expect a lot of track time.
Joe Specht and his team from TreadZone.com (http://www.TreadZone.com) will be there for your tire needs. From looking at North East Racing Tire (http://www.northeastracingtire.com) website Smarty has us on his schedule as well.
We expect a call from the track tomorrow or Thursday to finalize all the details. Once we have that we will post the entry on www.DLBRacing.com (http://www.DLBRacing.com).

[Greg Amy]

Anyone from CT/eastern NY heading over to WGI with some trailer space? A Formula Continental buddy needs someone to transport some tires to the event, "4 FC rain tires; 13 x 7 and 13 x 9 or something like that. Clean and in plastic bags."

If you can do it, let me know and I'll send him to you...

GA

[supersmile]

All sorted, Greg, thanks to Mr. Fed-Ex.

[dtanthon]

52 entries and still time for more.

ITR - 11
ITS - 12
ITA - 6
ITB - 8
ITC - 0
SM - 15

[dtanthon]

Up to 60 entries! Some of the prizes will be BIG for this event.

Wish I could be at this event but a birthday party in Atlanta is calling.

Please post updates for the unfortunate ones that can't attend.

Look for the NJMP ARCA weekend to be posted soon, still working on the schedule.

Play safe.

[lawtonglenn]

I haven't raced WGI since I had the ITE P928, and was wondering
what top speeds the fast ITS cars are getting to before the bus stop
in an effort to choose gearing (trans, dif, tires)

for example....with 4:88s, 8500rpm in 4th is 119mph w/45's or 123mph w/50s,
and if I can avoid changing to the trans with the short 5th I'd prefer it.

TIA
Glenn

[gran racing]

My guess based on ITB & SSC cars is you'd be okay with the 50s and probably run out a bit with the 45s.

[ulfelder]

I haven't raced WGI since I had the ITE P928, and was wondering
what top speeds the fast ITS cars are getting to before the bus stop
in an effort to choose gearing (trans, dif, tires)

for example....with 4:88s, 8500rpm in 4th is 119mph w/45's or 123mph w/50s,
and if I can avoid changing to the trans with the short 5th I'd prefer it.

TIA
Glenn

In my RX-7 (5:12), we ran 45s. I suspect you'll need 5th gear no matter what tires you run.

Steve

[ulfelder]

Add another ITR car: the S2000 will be there (though I won't). Nick Leverone will test Friday and run Pro-IT if everything seems right.

Steve

[lawtonglenn]

thanks...I'll let you know what happens

[mazdagt3]

Add another ITR car: the S2000 will be there (though I won't). Nick Leverone will test Friday and run Pro-IT if everything seems right.

Steve

steve, can i knock the left rear tail light out of this one like the green car!:D

very cool....hope it all works out. we'll be there fri afternoon with ours.

[ulfelder]

steve, can i knock the left rear tail light out of this one like the green car!:D

very cool....hope it all works out. we'll be there fri afternoon with ours.

That's great, Marc, I know we want to compare notes on a few things ... and yes, the LR taillight is reserved for you! :)

Steve

[Jack Hall]

Steve.. FWIW... Nick set a track record at WGI today with your car. Gonna be tough to catch you...

[ulfelder]

Steve.. FWIW... Nick set a track record at WGI today with your car. Gonna be tough to catch you...

I heard about that. Track record on a hot July day during the car's third session ever - nice! (I do believe the driver had something to do with the equation, though ... :o)

Steve

[dj10]

What was the time?

[ulfelder]

what was the time?

2:13.408.

[dj10]

2:13.408.

Hey what's going on? Something about an illegal Honda ITR?;)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Hey what's going on? Something about an illegal Honda ITR?;)

Oh ya!!! LMAO. Protested for diff gears and trans gears. Not sure how it panned out but they were pretty sure it wasn't going very far.

I love the diff gear issue. I wasn't there so I am getting this all through texts but it still makes me chuckle.

[xr4racer]

diff gears?

[dj10]

I love the diff gear issue

Since diffs are open...:) Who and why did they protest?
Did they break my "weak" track record of 13.444 in the race?

[xr4racer]

Maybe the diff gears were lightened.

matt

[Andy Bettencourt]

Since diffs are open...:) Who and why did they protest?
Did they break my "weak" track record of 13.444 in the race?

The qual race yesterday was when the record fell. You have to admit, the ITR and ITS records should have a larger differential at that track!

Why? Who knows? Obviously thought something was askew. Hopefully he got what he needed for information. I do not know him (and I hope he ends up posting here) but it's the gentleman in the Supra that runs at the Glen.

All in all it was a great weekend for the car. Wouldn't have been nearly as productive if Nick wasn't driving!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Maybe the diff gears were lightened.

matt

Huh? Any final drive is permitted provided it fits in the original unmodified housing...

[xr4racer]

Andy, I did not think a lightened ring gear was legal but I must be wrong.

matt

[dickita15]

The protest was withdrawn by the protestor. The protest was a laundry list about procedure and as far as I know the only legitimate mechanical point was if the car had the right tranny for the engine.

I think the guy was just blown away by the car showing starting from the back in the regional and running through the field.

It was interesting to watch in the Pro IT race. The car (or Nick ) seem to have a advantage in corner speed rather than horsepower.

The car is very sweet in person. The level in ITR has been raised. Doc Bro has already responded, very impressive in the afternoon regional.

[ulfelder]

The level in ITR has been raised.

I will do my best to lower it when I get in the car. :D

Steve

[hondaman321]

the s2000 is going to be a great car in ITR, with Nick driving I am sure the corner speed was significant, however you have a car that has 240hp stock and redlines at what 9000-9500. It is going to be an extremely competitive car- maybe to competitive with how the rule are written for this thing. Compare it to an e36 with a stock hp of 192. That is a huge difference.

[Andy Bettencourt]

the s2000 is going to be a great car in ITR, with Nick driving I am sure the corner speed was significant, however you have a car that has 240hp stock and redlines at what 9000-9500. It is going to be an extremely competitive car- maybe to competitive with how the rule are written for this thing. Compare it to an e36 with a stock hp of 192. That is a huge difference.

It is...totally stock. The way weights are calculated is based on estimated hp in IT prep. The numbers for an E36 325 are well known. Sqeezing more out of a NA 2L that already produces 120hp/liter is going to be slim pickin's. Process power for one of these is about 226whp or 276ish crank hp. Many doubt it's there.

215whp is a very reasonable and achievable number for the E36's - and they weigh 220 lbs less with a torque advanage. On paper, I see the BMW still as the best car in ITR...and I stick to my favorite - an E46 325 Coupe. Love that car. We chose this car because it WASN'T a BMW, WASN'T a Mazda and we were used to higher revving, excellent-handling type cars. Plus it's got the VTEC Yo! LOL.

Edit: We fully understand a preliminary outing like this will raise some eyebrows about the potential of the car...but you have to see it to believe it. You also have to understand all the research we did on equipment and set-up before just bolting stuff on. The S2000 community is quite large and there are a ton of these things being raced. Not many with open springs and bars in the SCCA, but with NASA you bet. It's a VERY solid effort. We are already in the 'tweaking' stage. Maybe someone can dig up some posts on when this car got classed at 3005lbs in ITR. I don't remember many thinking it was even a legit choice for the class at that weight. Either way, it's an effing cool car and Steve is going to love it. Hell,we already do!!!

[gran racing]

Hey, does this mean it's no longer spec BMW? I'm quite happy about Nick & Flatout's showing and it will help the class. Watched the beginning of Sunday's sprint race and Nick was pushing hard! Think I even saw a dust of blue paint come off the soft wall preceeding the front straight. Too competitive? The car is still heavy relative to cars in ITR and not the car to have in the class.

The ProIt race was nuts. When it started pouring with everyone on dry tires, tons of cars went spinning and off course. I even followed Nick into the grass in the bus stop. lol After multiple cars stuffed it into the tire walls, three cars were off together in the gravel trap, I thought for sure they'd go full course yellow, black flag everyone, or just checker the race. Going down the front straight my car would just dart back and forth, get towards an early braking point, hydroplane and the engine shut off. Was interesting trying to get the car to start again while hoping to somewhat make the turn. Several cars pulled into the paddock and called it a day. I had a decent gap between Ken in 2nd place, but eventually saw saw him in my rear view and pointed him on by which he deserved. Even at slower speeds I was concerned about stuffing it into a wall, no less racing him. I just didn't feel safe out there. It was a nice drive by Ken.

Two groups later, it was time for the sprint race. Due to yet another hub failure, I started DFL among SSC, ITC, and the 22 ITB cars. But this time I had rain tires. Wheeee! That race was soooo much fun. The car wasn't shutting off at the end of straights, no more massive hydro planeing. They did a spit start with SSM cars in front. Later in the race a double yellow was thrown. Sweet!! This allowed me to catch up to Nat who was in 2nd. We had a nice battle going side-by-side, but I just couldn't get him although seeing Steven who was in first just ahead was more than motivating. Finished 9th overall, 3rd in class and was more than pleased with that.

What happended to you Ken? Engine end up going I assume?

I owe a huge thanks to Ray, Tim D., Jeff L., Dick, and others for getting me out there on Sunday after all of the issues I encountered. Thanks guys!!

[dj10]

The qual race yesterday was when the record fell. You have to admit, the ITR and ITS records should have a larger differential at that track!

Why? Who knows? Obviously thought something was askew. Hopefully he got what he needed for information. I do not know him (and I hope he ends up posting here) but it's the gentleman in the Supra that runs at the Glen.

All in all it was a great weekend for the car. Wouldn't have been nearly as productive if Nick wasn't driving!

Actually I did the 13.444 & avg. 100.00 mph + on the short course with a weak engine. I do believe there is a lot more to go.

I know of the gentleman in the Surpa.

[hondaman321]

I agree with Andy that flatout builds great cars, I am sure the research that has gone into the car is tremendous. I am not calling anyone out or saying the car is not legal. I am strictly saying its a great car for the class, however it seems that with more wheel time the car will be outstanding and there will be no competition for it. E36's are great and again the only reason they got moved to itr was because of lots of illegal activity years back. It is good however to see ITR growing in the northeast.

[hondaman321]

Also to Dan, I know I come off as an ass always ranting and raving about E36's. But exactly my point you did low 13's with a weak motor. I have worked on and in conjunction with bmw north america and after every possible calculation, even with this excellent suspension knowledge everyone tells me you have, to get to those numbers is a far cry without a built motor or again something is wrong with the rules.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I agree with Andy that flatout builds great cars, I am sure the research that has gone into the car is tremendous. I am not calling anyone out or saying the car is not legal. I am strictly saying its a great car for the class, however it seems that with more wheel time the car will be outstanding and there will be no competition for it. E36's are great and again the only reason they got moved to itr was because of lots of illegal activity years back. It is good however to see ITR growing in the northeast.

Please - I hope I never made it sound like you thought it was illegal. No issues there.

I have to 100% disagree with you that the S2000 is an overdog...FAR from it really. And the reason the E36 got moved (it's actually dual-classed) has nothing to do with illegal cars. If you run the math, you will actually see that the E36 is VERY conservatively classed - almost to a fault IMHO. 205whp gets you to the target weight. Think about that and apply what you know about these motors in legal IT trim.

[hondaman321]

no you did not make it seem illegal, i was just stating that I was not inferring that. I do agree that the e36 is very competitive when built to the max, just that if you look very closely at it in its fully built(legal) configuration it is going to be very hard to be competitive with some other ITR cars.

[tnord]

no you did not make it seem illegal, i was just stating that I was not inferring that. I do agree that the e36 is very competitive when built to the max, just that if you look very closely at it in its fully built(legal) configuration it is going to be very hard to be competitive with some other ITR cars.

what in the world makes you think that?

if i was building, and made the decision purely based on what i thought gave me the best opportunity to WIN, it would be some BMW variation. no question.

[Andy Bettencourt]

no you did not make it seem illegal, i was just stating that I was not inferring that. I do agree that the e36 is very competitive when built to the max, just that if you look very closely at it in its fully built(legal) configuration it is going to be very hard to be competitive with some other ITR cars.

Couple requests. 1. Who are you? 2. Run some numbers for us here. What ITR cars would be better and why? What are you using to base that off of? Help us know what you are talking about.

[dj10]

Also to Dan, I know I come off as an ass always ranting and raving about E36's. But exactly my point you did low 13's with a weak motor. I have worked on and in conjunction with bmw north america and after every possible calculation, even with this excellent suspension knowledge everyone tells me you have, to get to those numbers is a far cry without a built motor or again something is wrong with the rules.

I wished we could meet face to face so we could talk rationally about these issues. You coming out and calling me or every other e36 driver a cheater doesn't help your image, whether you care or not that's another question. Remember I was torn down at last years ARRC and I was legal. I'll be at Mid Ohio next weekend if the cars tests ok tomorrow. If your around please stop in.

[benspeed]

Great racing this weekend - VERY competitive field. Once I get the final results I'll do a ProIT story. We didn't stick around because of the rain - it was pouring right after the ProIT. I felt bad for the SRF guys - they looked soaked down big time, helmets all fogged up.

Marc C - you should throw your video link over here too - that was some great Pro IT footage. Trying to convert my video into something that will run on the web.

[gran racing]

Ben, weren't you grouped with ITA? That was a dry race and beautiful outside.

[jcmotorsports]

It is...totally stock. The way weights are calculated is based on estimated hp in IT prep. The numbers for an E36 325 are well known. Sqeezing more out of a NA 2L that already produces 120hp/liter is going to be slim pickin's. Process power for one of these is about 226whp or 276ish crank hp. Many doubt it's there.

215whp is a very reasonable and achievable number for the E36's - and they weigh 220 lbs less with a torque advanage. On paper, I see the BMW still as the best car in ITR...and I stick to my favorite - an E46 325 Coupe. Love that car. We chose this car because it WASN'T a BMW, WASN'T a Mazda and we were used to higher revving, excellent-handling type cars. Plus it's got the VTEC Yo! LOL.

Edit: We fully understand a preliminary outing like this will raise some eyebrows about the potential of the car...but you have to see it to believe it. You also have to understand all the research we did on equipment and set-up before just bolting stuff on. The S2000 community is quite large and there are a ton of these things being raced. Not many with open springs and bars in the SCCA, but with NASA you bet. It's a VERY solid effort. We are already in the 'tweaking' stage. Maybe someone can dig up some posts on when this car got classed at 3005lbs in ITR. I don't remember many thinking it was even a legit choice for the class at that weight. Either way, it's an effing cool car and Steve is going to love it. Hell,we already do!!!

OK I'll throw my two cents in as a driver of a T3 S2000. These cars are TOTAL momentum cars. Flatout's car is a top notch build and the car performs well with a great driver. Just for comparison, I turned a 2:14.1 in qualifying in the October(Last Chance)regional at the Glen and backed it up in the race with a 2:14.401 during the race in a T3(fully built with no expenses spared) car. The ITR record should be at least in the twelves! So those that think the S2000 is an overdog are very mistaken.

[hondaman321]

Well if ITR should be in the 12's then alot of people are in trouble and have no chance of winning. Again as I said before back in 06-07 or around there top prepped e36's ran around high 14's or low 15's and since then times have dropped. These are the same cars that are classed in itr now. So if an ITR s2000 should run twelve's that proves my point that it is not classed correctly.

[benspeed]

OK - here's the race up until I dive bomb the gravel trap. Didn't even TRY to get out. It ended up looking like a used car lot - 4 folks stuck and at least another 3-4 who visited the beach but were able to leave.

I'm glad I got to say, "sorry" to Tyler for tapping him - no damage to either car. Marc C. get's the gold for best start.

Tidbits - I heard Rob Nimkoff was able to finish but had bad damage. Marc C lost clutch hydraulics and had to retire. My son said the bus stop was a spin fest once it started raining. I saw Miatas blowing past ITR/ITS cars once the rain came down. John Stewart was parked in the beach with me for awhile and a Miata pounded his trapped car in the rear bumper pretty good - John was not happy at all...

Hoping to get the official results. Ran a 2:14.4 on the in-car timer and wonder where that stands up to the other times.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7960563/21083482

[jcmotorsports]

I didn't say an ITR S2000. I said an ITR car. ITS cars run in the 14's shouldn't ITR be at least 2 sec faster? I really don't think that the S2000 can go that much faster than what Nick did at that weight. I feel the BMW's have more in them and we will see that now that the gauntlet has been laid down.

[hondaman321]

sorry about that thought you had been referring to the s2000, again though as I said how can you expect ITR 36's to be in the 12's if when they had been classified as ITS they did not reach that and nothing has changed in the car since those days.ITR and ITS e36's are almost identical again it was because so much cheating years ago and all the e36's winning.

[jcmotorsports]

Remember the E36 was restricted in ITS around 2006/2007. In ITR it is unrestricted and if I am not mistaken it also has more tire in ITR.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Well if ITR should be in the 12's then alot of people are in trouble and have no chance of winning. Again as I said before back in 06-07 or around there top prepped e36's ran around high 14's or low 15's and since then times have dropped. These are the same cars that are classed in itr now. So if an ITR s2000 should run twelve's that proves my point that it is not classed correctly.

Tough talk time here. Beware.

The ITS record is a 2:14.1. Has been since July of 2005. Logically, ITR should be faster, no?

Dan is FULLY where he is supposed to be with a soft motor. You haven't answered my question about producing numbers and supporting your assertion it is missclassed. All you have done is suggested that just because some guys didn't do it 'then', actually means something. Who was it? What is top prep? The Autotechnic guys are running low 2:14's in 323's at 3000lbs. You have suggested Dan is illegal (don't believe it)...how about these top 323's?

You need some more than that. Oh ya, can you let us know your name?

'A lot of people' will need pro motors and a continued focus on driving and top prep to compete in ITR now in the NE. Doc Bro, Ben P., Nimkoff, Thiele, Fox, etc are really making this a great class. The more popular it is, the higher the prep level that will be required to win. What times would Driscoll be running if he dropped a 325 or 328 motor in his car? Yikes! A great class that just had it's ante raised...and it is gonna rock.

[hondaman321]

x

[hondaman321]

Andy you make great points. I guess the bar being raised is a good thing and it will keep things competitive. If the autotechnik guys went to ITR, what is the weight difference from the current class. Breualt and Nimkoff along with ben are really putting on a show out there in ITR and i am sure your s2000 will add to the mix. top 323's should be running with the top e36's, I do not know much about the e46 or s2000 or porsche 968, just that the e36 seemed to get the bad end of the stick. But you make a very good point
Ben

[Andy Bettencourt]

top 323's should be running with the top e36's

Why do you say this? The E36 weighs 215lbs less, has more tire and more HP. I can't fathom the reasoning.

As to the rest, ITR is a huge guess for us all. That is one of the great things about this class IMHO. You want a real treat? Lets have Kip VS come up here in his 944S2. Just because we haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nothing I have seen has shown me that the top dog on paper is anything but the E36. The rest of us are using that as a bogey.

[tdw6974]

[QUOTE=benspeed;309392]OK - here's the race up until I dive bomb the gravel trap. Didn't even TRY to get out. It ended up looking like a used car lot - 4 folks stuck and at least another 3-4 who visited the beach but were able to leave.

Ben, The radio net was an interesting call on the incident/incidents!!! Hope any damage was not too bad for those involved.

[mossaidis]

Another VERY mixed weekend for me and a whole lot of others. I hope everyone else get to visit the wineries as we did on Sun/Mon. This is not shaping to be a good year for me.

1) Canceled LRP due to bad tranny reassemble... can't shift into 5th/rev and then we get trailer tire flat on the way to LRP midnight before the race.
2) Made it to sun NHMS, started last in qual race. in the race, we went from 13th to 4th to DFL after a spark wire dislodged.
3a) Sat Morning at WGI, qualified 6th after Lawton though car was squirmy during the last 2 laps. Well, early afternoon we discovered that the end of the axle(incl nut) had simply sheared completely off - nothing like riding on unpacked bearings. hmmm.... went to NAPA and changed parts in under 70 min.
3b) Sat afternoon at WGI, I am tailing (within inches) lawton, wheelen, frederick until the middle of lap 3 when the pack pulls away (so I think). What's really happening is motor is starting to fall apart though I don't realize it. I dialed back knowing I won't be able to catch up... I shift into 3rd going into the laces and... BANG!!!! white smoke files cockpit and the rest is history.

Fine rieslings at Chateau Lafayette Renau though... simply delicious. Burp...

We stayed for the Sunday races, it was awesome viewing. Nick is in flight around the bus stop and Rob did his best to hunt him down - great race! ITA saw it's fair share of action too between Klava, Wheeler changing places and Braumscoum in hot pursuit! Sorry to hear lawton lose his brakes.. :(

[JLawton]

Some crappy video from the qualifying race.........

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7961569/21087045

The ITA leaders had a tough time all weekend with the ITS cars. I was lucky and it worked to my advantage most of the time. But a Saturn should really, REALLY not be passing a Porsche in the esses........... (race #2)

Disappointing race #2 as others mentioned. Got a great start, was in second when the brakes went. I mean NOTHING! Tried to to tough it out for a lap but for once I did the smart thing and pulled it in.

[Khammitte]

More video from the Pro-IT race. This is from Ann's car (red e30 M3)
http://vimeo.com/13673538

Keith Hammitte

[wepsbee]

Another VERY mixed weekend for me and a whole lot of others. I hope everyone else get to visit the wineries as we did on Sun/Mon. This is not shaping to be a good year for me.

1) Canceled LRP due to bad tranny reassemble... can't shift into 5th/rev and then we get trailer tire flat on the way to LRP midnight before the race.
2) Made it to sun NHMS, started last in qual race. in the race, we went from 13th to 4th to DFL after a spark wire dislodged.
3a) Sat Morning at WGI, qualified 6th after Lawton though car was squirmy during the last 2 laps. Well, early afternoon we discovered that the end of the axle(incl nut) had simply sheared completely off - nothing like riding on unpacked bearings. hmmm.... went to NAPA and changed parts in under 70 min.
3b) Sat afternoon at WGI, I am tailing (within inches) lawton, wheelen, frederick until the middle of lap 3 when the pack pulls away (so I think). What's really happening is motor is starting to fall apart though I don't realize it. I dialed back knowing I won't be able to catch up... I shift into 3rd going into the laces and... BANG!!!! white smoke files cockpit and the rest is history.

Fine rieslings at Chateau Lafayette Renau though... simply delicious. Burp...

We stayed for the Sunday races, it was awesome viewing. Nick is in flight around the bus stop and Rob did his best to hunt him down - great race! ITA saw it's fair share of action too between Klava, Wheeler changing places and Braumscoum in hot pursuit! Sorry to hear lawton lose his brakes.. :(


Some crappy video from the qualifying race.........

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7961569/21087045

The ITA leaders had a tough time all weekend with the ITS cars. I was lucky and it worked to my advantage most of the time. But a Saturn should really, REALLY not be passing a Porsche in the esses........... (race #2)

Disappointing race #2 as others mentioned. Got a great start, was in second when the brakes went. I mean NOTHING! Tried to to tough it out for a lap but for once I did the smart thing and pulled it in.

Really sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Sounds like our cars over the last few races. Hope to see you at NHMS in Aug.

[benspeed]

Link to the race results for the weekend. I didn't stick around so I was surprised - what happened to Nick? I'll take second fastest time - 2:14.5 - but Nick still had a second on me at 2:13.5

Congrats to AutoTechnic - you guys just keep putting it on the podium. Big kudos to RidgeRacing and Matt Rooke - 10th to 3rd - way to go.

The ITS guys put shame on the ITR guys

http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/crrresultswgi1.pdf

[FastM3]

Anybody have video of me in the Silver # 38 Miata showing how it gets done in the rain.

Full story later




Phil Kogan #38 Silver Miata

[lawtonglenn]

More video from the Pro-IT race. This is from Ann's car (red e30 M3)
http://vimeo.com/13673538

Keith Hammitte



sorry keith but this video is from the Sunday Group 5 race where I'm on intermediates (stupid stupid stupid)

[lateapex911]

Why do you say this? The E36 weighs 215lbs less, has more tire and more HP. I can't fathom the reasoning.

As to the rest, ITR is a huge guess for us all. That is one of the great things about this class IMHO. You want a real treat? Lets have Kip VS come up here in his 944S2. Just because we haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nothing I have seen has shown me that the top dog on paper is anything but the E36. The rest of us are using that as a bogey.


NO offense to anyone running in ITR, but....let's have Kip VS call Blake or Sunbelt and get himself a motor, and put his effort into an E36 in ITR, and bring it up. What say you ITR guys? Doe the thought of that make you nervous?

Hondaman, (Ben? Ben who?) I'm with Andy on this.

I've considered ITR hard. I keep coming back to the E36 - a car that I KNOW can make 220 WHP, handles pretty well, and weighs 2765. Nearly 300 less than the S2000. On the same tires/wheels. (or nearly the same).

Now the S2000, I've researched too, and I'm thinking that it's going to make 230 or so at the wheels. For it to equal the E36, it needs 240. (strictly speaking lbs/whp).

If Costello is going 2:14.1 in a T3 car, (within 20lbs of the ITR car)well, then we know the ITR record hasn't really 'gotten there' yet.

I bought a Porsche 944S to build into an ITR car, when I found one for a steal. When I really looked into it, research showed it could make nearly process power. But the cost. ugggg. While any car costs a lot to build into a front running racer, it's scary to do when the numbers suggest you'll be behind the 8 ball compared to other choices. If the Porsche had been a cheap build, it would have been worth the gamble if the $$ was reasonable. Kip told me what he's gone through, and the $. I'm glad it's him, not me. He's done well with the car, but, I still wonder where he'd be if he had chosen another route.

The RX8 is another consideration. 212whp, but, 2850lbs. And transmissions that go down like french whores. So, 8 hp less than an E36, and 100 lbs more. Pass.

And after all that, if lb/hp are equal, development is equal, drivers are equal, the lighter car handles better, is kinder to components and tires, and is often the winner. So, I've yet to have anyone convince me the E36 isn't the best choice.

(Andy likes the E46, too, but I haven't seen the real poop numbers on that so I can't say)

We haven't seen a top ITR car yet, sorry to say guys,

[Greg Amy]

...let's have Kip VS call Blake or Sunbelt and get himself a motor, and put his effort into an E36 in ITR, and bring it up....

We haven't seen a top ITR car yet, sorry to say guys,

Yes we have...but prior to '05 or so we called them "ITS".

GA

[Doc Bro]

We haven't seen a top ITR car yet, sorry to say guys,


Don't know if I fully agree Jake. I think Dan Jones's car is pretty close....Stickley power etc. And I think Nimkoff's car is pretty close...Motec etc. Are they Kip's, no...but I'd be careful about holding a single 944 data point as the gold standard. In either case Rob and Dan haven't left much on the table.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Yes we have...but prior to '05 or so we called them "ITS".

GA

When they didn't have to build to 10/10ths to win...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Don't know if I fully agree Jake. I think Dan Jones's car is pretty close....Stickley power etc. And I think Nimkoff's car is pretty close...Motec etc. Are they Kip's, no...but I'd be careful about holding a single 944 data point as the gold standard. In either case Rob and Dan haven't left much on the table.

R

So we take Dan out of it because he admits to a soft motor even when he set the record. Nimkoff's car is wicked for sure - and it shows at his home track where he runs in hallowed ground...:59's. Data is everywhere you want to find it!

Again, the bottom line here is that ITR is full of cars that can win - and do around here. E36's, 968's, 944S2's, S2000's...not to mention stuff nobody talks about. I bet a full-tilt E30 M3 would rock Lime Rock at 2650lbs!

I don't see any real overdogs in ITR, and that is what the real debate is about here. I would love to see Sunbelt build a 3.0 Supra motor however.... :)

[Greg Amy]

You kiddin' me, dood? You were there back then, weren't you? That's where Bimmerworld (Clay, Thomas), ISC (Kip and Mike vS), and even AutoTechnic made a name for themselves! You really think those cars weren't top-notch builds...?

Now, you can legitimately argue that they were 100 pounds heavier and had smaller tires than they do now in ITR, but to argue they weren't top builds means you were either still autocrossing or simply not paying attention...

[Andy Bettencourt]

You kiddin' me, dood? You were there back then, weren't you? That's where Bimmerworld (Clay, Thomas), ISC (Kip and Mike vS), and even AutoTechnic made a name for themselves! You really think those cars weren't top-notch builds...?

Now, you can legitimately argue that they were 100 pounds heavier and had smaller tires than they do now in ITR, but to argue they weren't top builds means you were either still autocrossing or simply not paying attention...

The contect of the conversation was LOCAL. Ain't nothin' touched those Southern cars at the time. Hence the change in prep level and re-class. As with everything, shocks, tires, development...things go faster. To think those guys couldn't be faster now with todays equipment is foolish.

[hondaman321]

I agree with Greg, they had been top builds then and they got re classed with a lot of cars that are faster. Also the cars down south, i don't care who you are and if you believe it or not but they had been straight out illegal. I looked at the old sunbelt cars and know for a fact the motors had been extremely illegal. When they had been for sale, I inquired and was told you could rev them to 8400 rpms if necc. Tell me is that realistic in a legally built e36. NO WAY. With the stock valve springs it would never hold up, and that is what you could run legally. So again they are still competitive in ITR, however they received a change in class because of illegal modifications and yes the northeast has seen fully built e36's for years. I also agree with Andy with development and newer equipment and software they could def be faster.

[lateapex911]

Yes we have...but prior to '05 or so we called them "ITS".

GA

So they weren't full ITR builds, were they? Subtract weight, add 20% tire....= go slower? Should be faster, right?

[lateapex911]

I agree with Greg, they had been top builds then and they got re classed with a lot of cars that are faster.
No. Wrong. They got weight removed and tires added, and were put in another clas. That is NOT being "reclassed with a lot of cars that are faster".

Also the cars down south, i don't care who you are and if you believe it or not but they had been straight out illegal. I looked at the old sunbelt cars and know for a fact the motors had been extremely illegal.What did you SEE (you said you LOOKED at them). What were the illegal parts, and how were they illegal? Pistons that were not of stock shape? Valves too big? What?

When they had been for sale, I inquired and was told you could rev them to 8400 rpms if necc. Tell me is that realistic in a legally built e36. NO WAY. With the stock valve springs it would never hold up, and that is what you could run legally. Well, you were TOLD something in a sales pitch, and did they say they'd hold up? ;)

So again they are still competitive in ITR, however they received a change in class SIR restrictor because of (alleged) illegal modifications and yes the northeast has seen fully built e36's for years. I also agree with Andy with development and newer equipment and software they could def be faster.Would be interested to hear the documentation of, or even specifics of the illegal mods.

test

[Greg Amy]

To think those guys couldn't be faster now with todays equipment is foolish.
Sure they'd go faster! 100# less weight and wider tires. But what "today's equipment"? Hoosier R6 tires, which are...from 2006 (and many argued at the time of the switch that the '05 was faster)? Those cars EXPLODED around the track, and were a primary factor that led directly to The Great Realignment.

But you are right that if any of these guys did this today, they'd kick butt. - GA

[anthony1k]

I bought a Porsche 944S to build into an ITR car, when I found one for a steal. When I really looked into it, research showed it could make nearly process power. But the cost. ugggg. While any car costs a lot to build into a front running racer, it's scary to do when the numbers suggest you'll be behind the 8 ball compared to other choices. If the Porsche had been a cheap build, it would have been worth the gamble if the $$ was reasonable. Kip told me what he's gone through, and the $. I'm glad it's him, not me. He's done well with the car, but, I still wonder where he'd be if he had chosen another route.

I agree. BMW's can draw from a vast pool of accumulated knowledge. Hardly anyone in the Porsche performance community bothers with the S2 anymore. After a complete .040 rebuilt that ran into serious $$ our S2 is so down on RWP compared to the e36's, its no wonder we were 3-4 sec off the pace. By the way, I'd love to know what Kip has done to his motor.

[kjh6576]

Dave/Mr. Dirt stockers, LOL, no it was a VW backing on to the track after spinning at the exit of the heel directly infront of me. Just clipped him with my left front in his left rear, sustaining heavy damage. I had a killer start from the back with you, but kept getting slowed by traffic. Nice race Dave,Nat and Stephen. The Pro IT race was a blast. I cant recall ever driving that slow and still be completely out of control. The straights were almost as challanging as the concrete layden corners. I once rode less than a foot away the entire lenth of guard rail in the carousel, understeering at a very slow speed, sayin come on baby atleast 20 times on that little adventure. LOL Anyways, I was glad to see you had fixed your car. Just wished I could have given you guys a hard time at the pointy end of the field. Both Nat and Stephen are very fast in the wet. Well, I'm off to the frame straightener and calling all over the planet for rare and elusive body parts this week. Hope to see all of you again soon.
Ken

[Tkczecheredflag]

Here's a little Vid from Pro IT Qualifier - Had a problem with the camera for the Reional - Steve Wheeler - if you have video I would love to see it. Enjoy!
http://www.vimeo.com/13691433

[lawtonglenn]

.

ok, I will add my video link to the bunch .... I had a BLAST racing with John Stewart
(#41 ITR Red E36) and Ann Lamport-Hammite (#1 ITR Red E30)
thanks to both of you for the fun!!! :happy204:

http://vimeo.com/lawtonglenn

I may not have had the best race, but I'm competing for the best quality video

If you have older equipment and it looks choppy, click on the "HD off"
button to the right of the screen...PS...FULL SCREEN looks great!

The video had to be split into two parts to meet the 1GB limit, so
the first 10 laps are up now, and laps 11-19 (including the rain)
will be up later this afternnon....it is uploading now.

.

[rhygin]

That is some really, really good video... clear, good sound, can see the rear mirror. i love the passes that take 3 corners. Good stuff.
Brad

[robits325is]

.

ok, I will add my video link to the bunch .... I had a BLAST racing with John Stewart
(#41 ITR Red E36) and Ann Lamport-Hammite (#1 ITR Red E30)
thanks to both of you for the fun!!! :happy204:

http://vimeo.com/lawtonglenn

I may not have had the best race, but I'm competing for the best quality video

.

Great video. Where is part 2?

[lawtonglenn]

Part 2 is uploading .... 97% at 3:15pm....should be viewable by 4pm or so...same link