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Greg Amy
06-07-2010, 11:17 AM
We are at a massively critical juncture in NEDiv, and I'm sure we're not alone. We are simply running out of volunteers.

Now, I'm not talking just about the long-standing shortage of F&C workers; that's a given that will never go away. I'm talking about all the other people that help to "run the show". I'm talking race chairpersons, tech stewards, SITs (Stewards in Training), Timing and Scoring, Registration, etc. I'm talking we're in a situation where we may not have enough people to actually put on an event at all!!!

I got to see this first-hand this past weekend at NHMS. As you may know, I "got volunteered" to be Chief of Tech for the event. Plus, I attended the Club Racing Board meeting Saturday night (the only "regular driver" -- someone that's not usually part of the inner workings -- to bother to attend. And, since I was a chief that weekend, we could even conclude that that number was ZERO). All this gave me insight into the inner workings of the group, who is doing what, and how things happen.

You have no idea how bad this is getting. Seriously, you don't.

Did you know that I was the only person committed in advance to working Tech Friday night? When I opened Tech at 7:00 PM I had a couple of guys waiting to get their cars annual'd, and no one else was there. Eventually, the line got so long that several drivers volunteered to help out, and of course as usual Dick Patullo and a couple others stepped up to clear the backlog. As it was, our scheduled 7-9PM tech drug out past 10PM. Can you imagine what would have happened Saturday AM in the Tech line had I had not taken a day of vacation from work to be there (and trust me, my number of available vacation days is not unlimited)...? And while I had a fair number of help on Saturday (several of them first-time volunteers - including drivers - who saw a need and stepped up to fill it) I had zero volunteers on Sunday, as all those Saturday folks had personal commitments for Sunday. Zero, zilch, nada, none. As in, when I was handing out the food chits and TIPS coupons I took them for myself only.

Do you realize that people like Scott Dowd - who now has other personal commitments for the year - have been doing this for a long, long time now and we've come to expect it without a thought? And do you realize that at this moment we do not have a Chief of Tech for the LRP School/Regional in two weeks, nor the event at NHMS in July (I can't/won't do it, as I have other commitments)? How are you planning on getting that sticker to be allowed off the grid...?

Dave Faita stepped up to the plate to join the SIT program. Did you know he had to be Chief Steward for both Black Flag and Tech because there was not enough people to have one for each?

Peg Dowd had work commitments for Friday, so she could not be there early Friday; she opened registration at 7PM with a looooooong line of people - competitors and volunteers - waiting to get into the track. How many of those people do you think have been taking it for granted that registration will be open for them when they get there, and were annoyed that it wasn't so during dinnertime?

Did you know that we have several events this year where we do not have a Chief Steward committed for the event???

And trust me, these are not the only shortfalls we're running into. there were numerous people flipping different hats over the weekend.

Each time we go on the Internet and look at the available races we assume someone will always be there to schedule the event and chair the region's race program and coordinate the work. Then we download and read the supps (that someone had to create and send to Topeka to get approved) and look at the schedule, and we assume it's all going to happen. We drive to the track and find that registration is open, and we assume it will always be, and when we pay our money we assume the cash will somehow magically flow in the background to cover all the expenses. Then we walk with our helmets over to Tech and get our event stickers in 5 minutes and assume we always can. We jump in our cars and drive over to the Grid and see the same wonderful faces and assume they'll always be there, then we drive out onto the track and see the white suits all around and assume they'll always be there on each station. Then we hit Miatas and assume there will always be a Black Flag Steward to talk to. And then we walk over to Timing and Scoring and expect our lap times to be posted and then we glance up at Control and assume those lights up there will always be on.

Well, it's getting to the point where they very well may not be.

The same people are doing the same work over and over again, and it's got to change. Many of these people are simply tired of doing it over and over again. They really enjoy doing it, and it's not that they don't feel appreciated, it's just that they, too, have lives and changing personal commitments. We've taken it for granted that these people are going to run the show forever, but the situation is teetering right on the edge such that all it takes it one person to get a new job and the whole game changes completely; we may not have enough people to put on the event at all...

So it's time for everyone to "man up". This is a club organization. We're all members. If we want this club racing organization to continue then we're going to have to all do our part. I'm not saying you have to take vacation time and go to an event for a weekend and do nothing but work (though it's really what the club needs right now) but we have enough people in this organization such that if everyone chips in just a little bit then this looming crisis can be averted. Can you work Registration on Friday and/or Saturday AM during the peak times so that one of those persons can skip the event and focus on the next one? Can you work Tech and check helmets Friday/Saturday so that the same people aren't doing it all the time (or at least be there on Saturday because the tech chief couldn't be there Friday and everyone's screaming Saturday AM that their session is coming up)? Any interest in the Stewards program so you can help run the show at the track? Can you work with the regional and event race chairpersons pre-event to help coordinate what needs to be done to put on the event? How about working Grid, Pit, T&S, or a corner for a session or two? It all adds up.

Even better, how about taking one weekend - one weekend - and working a specialty, relieving the load from people who are coming close to the tipping point? No, it won't be as fun or exciting as racing but it's a hell of a lot cheaper and with it comes a sense of satisfaction that you won't get even when you win the race. Because without the former you soon may not get the latter.

Just sayin'.

GA

P.S. Did you know you can get reduced SCCA membership renewal costs, gas cards, and/or Red Roof Inn discounts for volunteering and working days? You won't get rich, but...

raffaelli
06-07-2010, 06:09 PM
Greg,

After having worked in Timing a few times with Linda, I was able to see ALL of the stuff that happens in the tower. A tremendously dedicated and throughtful group - actually more like a family - hangs out in the tower, spending their free time so we can assume we can go play. My wife and I really enjoy working in Timing. Not because counting cars is fun......cause it ain't. But because of the people.

While track time for me this year is very very limited. My wife and I will reach out to donate some time. We would love to work corners....we went and got our amateur radio liceneses just for that reason to help out Rally NY (plus Dad is a monster Ham guy...worked out well for the car....fitted with a 2 meter radio). But the Flagging schools timing didnt work out for us. None-the-less, it would be really great to work with that family again, and we will.

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront.

gizmo83
06-07-2010, 06:42 PM
Greg,
I know these questions seem silly to you but...
I got Tech added to my license like you told me and want to help out at LRP Friday night and Saturday morning! How do I let someone know?
There isn't anyone listed for Tech on the Supps!
Denise

Marianne
06-07-2010, 07:05 PM
Hi Chris,

We would be more than happy to have you come to any event and we will give you lots of training. If you let us know ahead of time we will make arrangements for extra special treatment. By knowing you are coming ahead of time we can do some pre race set up to make it more enjoyable.
If you aren't racing at Lime Rock oin June why not come out and enjoy a day with us?

Marianne Lyons
NER co-chief F&C

Greg Amy
06-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Denise, therein lies the main problem: there is currently no Chief of Tech for the LRP event at this point. And despite a number of emails to known licensed scrutineers in NER, Scott has not been able to get anyone to step up to the plate to do it (I'm committed to run the NJMP 12 Hour that weekend, a conflict that generates YET ANOTHER PET PEEVE DISCUSSION OF MINE)...and neither does the July NHMS event (which conflicts with the WGI Double National - that I'm entered in - and even another NJMP event)...!!!

So no Chief of Tech? Who's gonna issue the vehicle stickers? Who's going to inspect the cars that need annuals (and issue logbooks to the students that show up with new cars)? Who's going to sign off crash damage so the cars can be released from impound after an incident? And, who's going to ensure basic compliance with things such as a post-race weight?

Despite all that, I'm confident someone will show up. Can't guarantee it, but someone usually does. Regardless, you can do it solo, Denise, within the limits of your authority: as a Regional Scrutineer (something each of us already has by default) you can check logbooks and issue stickers to drivers with current annual inspections, and you can check gear and issue helmet stickers. All you have to do is get the stickers from the race chair Jerry Rigoli, who will be there (as he always is...but for how long?) But if someone shows up that needs an annual and/or needs a new logbook, activities that exceed your authority they're SOL unless a Divisional/National-licensed scrutineer is available. We will, literally, have to tell them to go home.

:shrug:

So, Denise, don't feel shy about showing up during the scheduled tech hours, there will always be something you can do to help. Send Jerry a note to let him know, but you don't even have to call ahead; trust me, whoever's there - especially if it's just drivers with helmets and logbooks in hand - will appreciate it.

GA

gran racing
06-08-2010, 07:55 AM
Does SCCA or any of the regions have any good videos to promote volunteering? Or what other recruitment tools exist that people can incorporate and help, not just in the NE but overall?

RacerBill
06-08-2010, 08:48 AM
IIRR, SCCA used to have some commercials for membership recruiting.

It doesn't help when you show up at a race and the specialty chief says 'I have enough people, I don't need you'.... And this was from a person who had been selected as Worker of the Year for that specialty less than a month before the incident!!! Obviously not selected for their management skills.

Or when you are left alone at a remote location and no one even bothers to check to see if you are still there.

BTW, I will be at Lime Rock on 6/18. Greg, PM me your cell phone and I can help for a while. Would love to try tech.

mossaidis
06-08-2010, 10:42 AM
oops! I will need an annual Friday morning at LRP! Please let there be a Divisional/National-licensed scrutineer available! PLEASE!

CRallo
06-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Greg,

I've been interested in doing something to give back to the club, but was concerned I wouldn't be considered qualified being reletively new to it and not quite as "wise" as most of the rest of you...

Also don't want to make commitments I can't keep!

That said, I am willing to give it a shot :) I have already taken work off for the LRP race coming up, but will not be competing so I will be available to help.

where is my help neeed and where do I sign?! :D

Greg Amy
06-08-2010, 12:01 PM
Bill, I won't be there, but just show up, they'll be glad to have you there.

Mickey, I'm confident a Divisional or National-licensed scru will show up. Just can't guarantee it...maybe you could find someone local to you to get that done in advance? You're upstate NY, right?

Chris, where's your interests? Tech, T&S, Reg? Don't know, want to try different ones? find what you're interested in and do that, 'cause the more you're interested in it, the more likely you are to do it. And trust me, you're qualified and/or you'll get educated quickly enough.

GA

mossaidis
06-08-2010, 12:13 PM
I am in NYC and the car was upstate. The car moved down to NYC with me in March. I don't know anyone in NYR SCCA and should probably place some effort here. Based on the NYR-scca web site the Chief of Scruitineering is Richard Welty! who is located back in my old stomping grounds in the capital region of Albany. LOL! No surprise there. My next best option would be Northern Jersey region - does Bill Etherington in Ewing (about 2h away) sound right as someone that can help?

CRallo
06-08-2010, 12:34 PM
Tech or T&S are where I have knowlegde and/or experience... Also the most interest :blink:

Also thinking this will be a good way to get to know more people :) it has always bugged me (for multiple reasons) not knowing half the people I am on track with...

thanks Greg!

bg43wex
06-08-2010, 02:59 PM
Greg,

First I would like to thank you for chiefing the last event, you stepped up to the plate and did what had to be done.

Second I commend you on such an eloquent post, you have summed up what many voluinteers have been thinking for quite a while.

WE ARE AT DEFKON 4. Volunteers are burnt and dropping!

enough A$$ kissing.

If any of you out there in racecar land want to help, just show up at the track and ask were to go, or request a specialty..

I am the Tech Chief for the LRP event with plans to be there early thursday evening. At this time I have no helpers scheduled to be with me but all are welcome.

brian mushnick

Z3_GoCar
06-08-2010, 03:30 PM
Bill, I won't be there, but just show up, they'll be glad to have you there.

Mickey, I'm confident a Divisional or National-licensed scru will show up. Just can't guarantee it...maybe you could find someone local to you to get that done in advance? You're upstate NY, right?

Chris, where's your interests? Tech, T&S, Reg? Don't know, want to try different ones? find what you're interested in and do that, 'cause the more you're interested in it, the more likely you are to do it. And trust me, you're qualified and/or you'll get educated quickly enough.

GA

Don't forget F&C, as a driver we've already got experience with how F&C works. It's a great way to see how the fast guys drive a particular corner. So, driver wise it's very educational. As I once heard Linda Haneline say, "Our resolve is flagging."

StephF
06-08-2010, 04:05 PM
And keep this in mind too, IIRC, you can ask to be moved around if you are afraid of being stuck someplace all day. Maybe spend the morning on one station, the afternoon in pits, helping race chair, etc. Better if we can get several people to come cover parts of shifts instead of only one or two who can commit to a full day.

Great way to see different perspectives of the event too. And you meet tons of people.

My favorite was sitting in on race control. Fascinating indeed! I think every driver should work corners, registration, tech, grid, control, at least once. It really rounds your education.

Andy Bettencourt
06-08-2010, 04:21 PM
WE ARE AT DEFKON 4. Volunteers are burnt and dropping!



Sounds like we are at DEFCON 2!!!

BruceG
06-08-2010, 05:14 PM
And keep this in mind too, IIRC, you can ask to be moved around if you are afraid of being stuck someplace all day. Maybe spend the morning on one station, the afternoon in pits, helping race chair, etc. Better if we can get several people to come cover parts of shifts instead of only one or two who can commit to a full day.

Great way to see different perspectives of the event too. And you meet tons of people.

My favorite was sitting in on race control. Fascinating indeed! I think every driver should work corners, registration, tech, grid, control, at least once. It really rounds your education.

I'll be on crutches for the rest of June and July but would be glad to help from a chair or cart at NHMS in July.

Kai Noeske
06-08-2010, 05:54 PM
I will be there both June 18/19. June 18 will be school, but I can do some work on June 19. I may or may not have a race depending if I get signed off, but will be free for much of the remaining day.

EDIT: I am a total rookie of course - so limited to idiot-proof tasks. Sweeping the floor in timing & scoring, or dbl yellow holder-upper at a flag station. I am also an EMT, but have no certificate in the US, and have not done this in a loooong time since I drove ambulances back in Germany.

Marianne
06-08-2010, 09:27 PM
Bruce and Kai

I am sure every group would love to have your help - and I hope you will considerd teh F&C group. Bruce - we can give you a seat in the tower (sit all day , close by bathrooms, air conditioned) and you can act as record. What you would be doing is writing down the communications between Control and the flag stations. NOw before you say you dont write fast you don't have to wrtie every word down - just teh facts! We would be happy to have you there.

As for you Kai if you don't get signed off and have are interested in trying F&C we offer on the job training. Of course Tech would probably love to have your help also and I don't want to be selfish... Well yes I do but I can pretend!

For Lime Rock if you are interested in flagging I will be at the concession stand on Friday from 8:15 on Friday and 7:15 on Saturday. Ask for me or Dan Hoffman and someone will point us out.

At NHMS Bruce just let me know if you are interested.
My e-mail is nerflagchief AT charter.com if anyone wants more information about volunteering in any way.

Marianne

lateapex911
06-09-2010, 04:01 AM
As for you Kai if you don't get signed off and have are interested in trying F&C we offer on the job training. .......

Marianne

You know Marianne, I could arrange to be Kai's instructor, and he DID have some braking judgment issues at NHMS, (wink wink), soooo....we might be able to arrange him having some extra hurdles in getting him signed off if you need him... ;)

gran racing
06-09-2010, 09:16 AM
This won't necessarily help the immediate short term need for LRP, but could be steps in the right direction for the future. I briefly touch upon volunteering and the benefits of doing so on my website, but certainly can and should expand upon if you'd like.

In addition to including more written portions, I believe a video(s) showing the various positions and what's in it for them to volunteer (fun and learn) would be valuable. With Kai's help, we put together an "intro to motorsports video" and althought just released, it's been quite well received thus far. Maybe someone here has better video editing abilities? Or we could get some help capturing video to be used?


Where can more information about the various volunteering positions be found? Yes, I did some searching but wasn't able to find what I am hoping to find. Basically looking for basic stuff and higher level overview of what it's about, the fun aspects that will lure people into giving it try and make them feel comfortable volunteering.

When speaking with people about about it, some of the reasons people are apprehensive about volunteering is they just don't know what to expect, are nervous if they're qualified / feel overwhelmed by the idea, and worry about the time commitment.

I think what the San Fran Region and possibly others do is a great idea. It doesn't have to be exactly like this, but there are parts of this approach I really like.


What is an Ambassador Tour?
An Ambassador Tour provides potential participants with a behind-the-scenes look at all the volunteer specialties in the San Francisco Region. Ambassador Tours are available at every club event throughout the year and typically begin around 10 a.m. Tours last approximately two hours and, at the end, guests are invited to join all SFR-SCCA workers for lunch.

What happens after the tour?
After the Ambassador Tour, guests are welcome to spectate for the remainder of the day. We also welcome them to sign up for membership with SCCA and try their hand at volunteering in the afternoon.

After the weekend is over, an SCCA representative will follow up with the referral to see if they are interested in becoming a full-fledged volunteer!

Kai Noeske
06-09-2010, 10:54 AM
You know Marianne, I could arrange to be Kai's instructor, and he DID have some braking judgment issues at NHMS, (wink wink), soooo....we might be able to arrange him having some extra hurdles in getting him signed off if you need him... ;)

D'UH!!! :o

:lol:

Marianne, I am fine with whatever work - will all be VERY interesting - so will work where they need people most.

:eclipsee_steering:

tom_sprecher
06-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Does SCCA or any of the regions have any good videos to promote volunteering? Or what other recruitment tools exist that people can incorporate and help, not just in the NE but overall?

The Atlanta Region has one on their website.

http://www.atlantascca.org/volunteers/specialties.html

Paul Gauzens, SIT, won an award for it at the last National Convention.

I feel your pain. We could not get enough volunteers so we had to institute a "Worker Expense Reimbursement Program" to make sure we had enough people. It takes a huge financial bite, but we no longer lack workers. Hopefully it will not put us under.

Jeremy Billiel
06-09-2010, 12:43 PM
Thank you for posting this Greg. Well written and to the point.

Bottom line is we need more volunteers to help everywhere or else the drivers need to be prepared to spend a lot more for entry fees.

As Tom mentioned Atlanta did it and as a result some of their events lost money and the fees had to go up.

Please do not let it get to this point... As once you begin paying people to flag, etc you can not turn back easily and the entry fees will be forever higher than we are paying today.

lateapex911
06-09-2010, 03:22 PM
I've always thought it was a shame that it cost money to volunteer., so I try and always add $20 to the fund on my entry. Sometimes I bring Home depot gift certs too. How many people do this? I was thinking everyone, but????

Greg Amy
06-09-2010, 03:39 PM
I've always thought it was a shame that it cost money to volunteer., so I try and always add $20 to the fund on my entry.
Jake, are you familiar with the TIPS program in NER? For each day that someone volunteers, they're given a coupon called a TIPS (I don't know what the acronym stands for). These can be used for different things; for example three TIPS coupons are good for an $8 gas card, or maybe a discount toward Red Roof, and even discounts on membership renewals, among other things. And, we give double TIPS for being there Friday! Before this weekend I thought TIPS were only good for merchandise...boy, was I wrong. Maybe Brian can give us a run-down on what these can be used for?

SCCA Topeka has a volunteer incentive program, too: log into SCCM.COM, Member Home/My Membership. There you can log your Volunteer Participation; four days gets you $15 off your membership renewal all the way up to a $45 discount for twelve or more days.

Plus, don't forget the worker event donations, which go directly to the quality of food offered Saturday nights and for paying for the TIPS....

Yeah, no one's gonna get rich off of that, but every little bit helps.

GA

gran racing
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
The worker donations are what pays for the food versus the entry fee?

Greg Amy
06-09-2010, 04:01 PM
The worker donations are what pays for the food versus the entry fee?
I'm sure it's a combo of all of the above, Dave; I don't know the exact break-down of sources and use. Jerry Rigoli would, though.

Jeremy Billiel
06-09-2010, 04:12 PM
There are many ways we try to incent our workers.

1. The region pays for their lunches & dinners by giving them coupons/bucks (money) to use at the track restaurants.
2. We hand out TIPS at the end of the weekend that can be used for many different things. Some include paying for your membership, buying gas cards, hotels, annual banquets, clothing and other merchandise.
3. Drivers have the ability to add money to their entry fees for the workers fund. This money is used for a workers raffle and is not kept by the region.
4. At the end of every weekend there is also usually a worker of the weekend award given for an A+ effort.

Bottom line is the same people are volunteering EVERY SINGLE RACE and they are burned out. We need reinforcements!!

ner88
06-09-2010, 04:19 PM
Worker donations go to many things: Cash raffel, lunches, dinner and tips, come to mind quickly.
We give out far more than we receive.

Kai Noeske
06-09-2010, 04:23 PM
Bottom line is the same people are volunteering EVERY SINGLE RACE and they are burned out. We need reinforcements!!

Sounds wrong that there are 150 race entries for the regional and a shortage of workers... if volunteering doesn't cut it, should SCCA require work from the racers, like NASA seems to do?

Alternative could be raising the entry fees and giving a hefty "discount" (that effectively brings fees down to the current level) to people who volunteer at least a certain number of times a season.

lateapex911
06-09-2010, 05:13 PM
Bottom line is the same people are volunteering EVERY SINGLE RACE and they are burned out. We need reinforcements!!

Broken record, beating a dead horse warning:

WE (big picture we, as the region/area/ not just we as NER) have too many races. This past weekend was a great example. If i was a worker I would have had to choose between a few events. Bur, yea, we've hashed this out before....

So, in figuring out what I can do, I'm looking at the schedule. I was going to help instruct, so Friday will be tight with all the instructing and mporeeping the car and qualifying sessions. (no crew).

But Saturday, I'm group 5.

So that kind of breaks things up. I could do something for groups 1 and 2, then, (hopefully I'll need to be in impound for grp 6, LOL) again for 7 and 8. I'd be happy to do whatever if that timing is useful in anyway. Thoughts from the insiders?

bg43wex
06-09-2010, 05:36 PM
Broken record, beating a dead horse warning:

WE (big picture we, as the region/area/ not just we as NER) have too many races. This past weekend was a great example. If i was a worker I would have had to choose between a few events. Bur, yea, we've hashed this out before....



Jake having multiple events on the same weekend never happens this was a one time deal. the problem is "We" have LESS volunteer period. they are not coming out like they use to. Many long time workers are getting how you say OLD and just don't commit to as many weekends as the past and "WE" as a group have not done a very good job at attracting new blood.

The other issue is that again "WE" have basically promoted the pay to play system leaving many drivers to believe the money spent on registration covers their "member/volunteer" commitment.

I don't have the answer but I know changes need to be made ASAP.

TIP's Track Incentive Plan

lateapex911
06-09-2010, 06:29 PM
Brian, I'm not saying the event conflicts are the issue, I'm saying that the number of events is probably a contributing factor. As you said, "not coming out as much"...if there are less days to fill it's easier.

personally, I'd have no problem having mandated fees attached to entries, I don't think any volunteer should have to pay for their membership and food etc. I think the TIPS program and other incentive programs are great, and a step in the right direction.

XVRacer
06-10-2010, 08:53 PM
Well, an SRF rental did not work out for "School's Out". So I will dig out my old 'whites' and come out to LRP on the 19th to do some F&C work. Should be fun.

ner88
06-11-2010, 06:59 AM
Quick simple solution: when planning your racing schedule add one date to work or take one off and work!
We don't need ideas and plans, we need you to work!
Sorry, if you can find time to race then you can find time to work.
We are all spoiled, we show up for events and never ask how things are getting done, we just expect it.

gran racing
06-11-2010, 08:18 AM
We don't need ideas and plans, we need you to work!

Yes, there's a definate need to find people to volunteer for the upcoming races but we most certainly need longer term solutions and ideas / plans. We know that trying to get racers to volunteer as a long term solution is going to be quite challenging. Not saying it should be, but that's the reality.


I'm saying that the number of events is probably a contributing factor.

I know you're being polite Jake, but of course the number of events being held is a big factor.

ner88
06-11-2010, 08:25 AM
The problem with plans and ideas is everyone has them but expects someone else to execute them!
We need a volunteer to volunteer to get volunteers! it's simple!

gran racing
06-11-2010, 08:46 AM
We need a volunteer to volunteer to get volunteers! it's simple!

I'll certainly give it a try.

What types of things do other organizations do that are quite successful in recruiting volunteers do?

Greg Amy
06-11-2010, 09:41 AM
What types of things do other organizations do that are quite successful in recruiting volunteers do?
1) Force drivers to work - or force them to provide a worker - or they don't race;
2) Charge a hell of a lot more for entries so they can pay workers.

I like Jerry idea of "One Day"; maybe that can be our new slogan? One Day per year of volunteering per year per driver would almost resolve our long-term issues. We got, what, 400+ licensed drivers in our area? 400 man-days of extra volunteering over all of our races is a lot of extra help. Give one weekend and we're sitting high on the hog...

One Day. Give it a shot.

GA

ner88
06-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Dave
What we have been trying to do for years with no success is write job discriptions.
How about you spend time with each chief of specialties, find out what they need first hand then write a simple explaination and include what kind of time someone would have to give.
I workers hand book/guide.
Go ahead take the flag!
I'm serious, really!

ner88
06-11-2010, 09:50 AM
Better yet, "Go Ahead take my job!" :D

gran racing
06-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Greg, I was talking about other organizations such as American Red Cross.

Jerry, that's kinda what I was thinking of when I mentioned further using my website thingy before. If SCCA is going to be promoting it and regions are having difficulty getting volunteers, doing something like that would make sense. I also think putting together a nice video show the fun aspects would help a bit as well.

Greg Amy
06-11-2010, 11:11 AM
Greg, I was talking about other organizations such as American Red Cross.
The American Red Cross comes with a sense of societal altruism that for whatever reason SCCA Club Racing - surprisingly - does not...

;)

RSTPerformance
06-11-2010, 08:17 PM
I love the whole idea of "The cheep date" race weekend up at NHIS and I don't want to ruin it however one thought would be to raise the entry fee to a normal fee and offer it at the cheep date rate for all the drivers who worked at another race?

Another idea while not cheep would be to give all drivers a $50 discount on one entry fee for an upcoming race when they work a race... Some might even use the discount for a race or double dip that they were not planning just because they get a deal, that would also equal larger entries. Some may also opt to put the discount back into the worker fund...

Another idea... Make an extra "Driver/Worker" appreciation practice session only for those that have worked a session... Make the session right after lunch so it is high profile & atractiv..., people don't seem to want a open practice at the end of the day and it would be nice for our workers and fellow drivers to see who is volunteering some time... It may encourage others to help also.

Last idea for now would be to give drivers discounts on test days or possible free track time at drivers schools that run the day before a race.

Another thing that I have said for years is important is for workers to register to work. I don't understand how these things get staffed well without the advance notice... Also it is hard for "US" drivers to see the real need when everytime we show up we see a flag at all the needed stations. If we had a registration system with every posisition then people couldactually see in advance what was needed and what we actually have...

Another "gripe...". We have some "good" positions and some crappy ones... We should register volunteers by the half day, and book them in different positions each 1/2 day of the weekend. If a driver has a race in the afternoon and nothing to do in the AM then they could volunteer to help. The way we staff corners now it seems more like a pain than anything to work only a half day...

Raymond "Just some thoughts from someone who has tried to volunteer a lot (one year I did 13 events!) but with life changes finds it hard to find the time to make it to the track to even race..." Blethen

ner88
06-11-2010, 08:38 PM
I should charge more to give it back??
What do you say to the volunteer who works for free when they find out you are paying drivers??
Why do you have to bribe drivers?
It's a G..D..club, every driver is responsible for the event.
1/2 day workers, I'll put you incharge of keeping track of them and getting them to their positions.

How about you sign up for one work day a year or you don't race.

What happened to driver log books?????

gran racing
06-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Regardless of how frustrated you are or burnt out, responses like this do absolutely nothing to help.

Having a registration system sure makes sense.

BruceG
06-12-2010, 08:36 AM
I should charge more to give it back??
What do you say to the volunteer who works for free when they find out you are paying drivers??
Why do you have to bribe drivers?
It's a G..D..club, every driver is responsible for the event.
1/2 day workers, I'll put you incharge of keeping track of them and getting them to their positions.

How about you sign up for one work day a year or you don't race.

What happened to driver log books?????

Went to a pay to race Skippy event as a spectator at LRP yesterday. Before every session(practice,qualifying,race) they ask for volunteers(drivers) to staff flag stations. Like Solo, if you aren't running, you are picking up cones. I manned station 9(turn six) myself as they were short for one practice session. Fun to do(hadn't flagged since the early 70's) and served a purpose. Point is...even Skippy needs volunteers to be able to run events!

ner88
06-12-2010, 09:56 AM
Dave
Me burnt out no, frustrated yes.
What I hear and see all the time is ideas and solutions but no one willing to execute.
If you think a video is a good idea, make one.
If driver incentives are what you think will help, think it out, put it together and let's put it inplace.
What you can't do is create more work for others allready overworked.
What we need are racers getting involved, the system is in place but no one willing to take part.

RSTPerformance
06-12-2010, 11:13 AM
Jerry-

thanks for the kind response... It reminds me that the reality is that this is a "club" with maybe 10% of the members who care about the "club.". The reality is the other 90% are just customers. Also the reality is "nationally" SCCA treats it's members like this is a business, they (along with you it seems) could care less about member input. For me I am drifting into the 90% catagory as life changes away from racing and within the "Club" we call SCCA.

Somehow the club needs to figure out how to incorperate drivers into the "member" program, otherwise we are just fine being paying customers. When entries go up people like myself who can't afford it will go do something different.

Raymond "let's see... Not enough entries on one beging hand and On the other we want drivers not to enter races and work because we don't want to deal with one session or 1/2 day workers..." Blethen

ner88
06-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Thanks Raymond
The hard thing for some to understand is; most, if not all these ideas, have been talked about and in the end nothing gets done.
Greg's original post said we need help, that's the bottom line, we need help!

RSTPerformance
06-12-2010, 12:30 PM
Jerry... The drivers PAY for this club racing program to exist... I think if you give back a little with disconts at no cash payout it doesn't cost us anything out of pocket. Payng workers is money out of our pocket. Big difference IMO. Also workers do get SEVERAL perks that drivers don't get. If you pit a positive spin on anything you can make it look good.

Anyone in management should not have trouble scheduling, it's employee staffing 101. I run a transportation business and that is one of the major parts of my job. Please send me a list of all the positions that need to be staffed and who is in charge of each area with thier contact. We WILL get people to help.

We NEED to have at least 1/2 day assignments... Thier is no chance that I will stand on one corner for an entire day, done it before and didn't like it. I got bored. I know others have a longer attention span than I do but we need to figure out how to incorperate others like me...

Raymond "Including myself I have 3 people willing to run a corner together or work somewhere else like tech for half the day at the drivers school at Lime Rock, I will try to contact the F&C chief or as you suggest just show up in the morning.

Raymond "Balls in your court Jerry, I Need every position in detail" Blethen

ner88
06-12-2010, 02:27 PM
Giving incentives to drivers is like asking your son to mow the lawn and he says pay me and I will!

Ok, I'll be at LRP all weekend, I'm inviting anyone interested in helping to come by my trailer not necessarly to work this event but upcomming races.
There are many things needing to be done beside F&C that don't require whole days.
Set up and tear down, loading and moving trailers, T&S set up and more!

Right now I need help....I will have two NER trailers at LRP.
I need someone to bring one back to NHMS, this will mean having to wait until it is loaded at the end of the event.

ParkerFV
06-12-2010, 05:37 PM
How did a formula guy get on here!?

Preface: I've only been a member of the SCCA for 5 years, I'm a driver, and a divisional scrutineer.

Thank you Greg for starting this.

I've said it before and several people have said it here already. We need to institute a club wide requirement for drivers to work 1 or 2 full weekends per year!

WHY?

Somehow a culture of driver separation from the workings of the Club has been allowed and I have seen constant signs of this perceived isolation between "worker" and "drivers". I think the vast majority of drivers feel that their dues and entry fees are all that it takes to make this thing work. This is BULL S**T and anyone interested in the spirit and longevity of the club needs to do something about it.

I'm pretty annoyed that we've gotten to the point where we actually have to ask for help. This club is for racing and if you want to race you have to work. It's that simple. When I work tech, I certainly don't feel that I'm volunteering, I'm putting in my time so that we drivers can drive.

We need more "earn your ride" attitude and less "right to drive" attitude, and apparently we're going to have to force it with rules. If you can't handle it, I'm happy to show you how to leave the track.

Anthony Parker
NER

StephenB
06-12-2010, 06:36 PM
I need a little help for a program I am putting together that I would like to recommend to NER to help with our concerns to have minimum staffing levels at all of our events. I am looking for volunteers that can share with me the required number of workers ( staff members) needed to run an event at NHIS and LRP. I don't need the number of volunteers , I am looking for the number of workers required to run each event.

As i create my proposal I am keeping awair of a few things that i believe to be important.
Workers are not volunteers but volunteers can be workers.
Nobody else NEEDS to work but YOU and I NEED people to WANT to work.

I honestly think that if you guilt people into volunteering it will only be a very temporary fix and if you force people to work then long term our club will lose entries which in turn will raise our entries. Without making people WANT to work than we are only creating a short term solution.

Thanks for any help you can provide on the minimum staffing levels required to run an event at both tracks. (Yes I do understand that it will be different. )
Stephen

ParkerFV
06-12-2010, 07:52 PM
My two cents for scrutineering minimum staffing needs:

If we want to weigh cars, 4 people for NHMS and LRP.
If no scales, 2 people for each.

Stephen, I completely agree that quilting people is not acceptable and that "forcing" people to work creates bad feelings. That's why we say as a club, "if you want to race you have to work". The decision is in the driver's hands just like "real" life.

In what other part of life does a person expect the support of 50 to 100 people for a number of weekends? Especially for something as useless as racing?

Anthony Parker
NER

ner88
06-12-2010, 09:14 PM
At convention this year I attended a course.
We were asked to put on an event with 40 workers(on paper of course).
With a lot of creative thinking it can be done.
Now, that doesn't mean you could get away with it more than once!

So Stephen you want people who want to work, that's what we have now.
If I ask that would be a guilt trip and if I say they have to, that's forcing them?

I guess that's why I cut my own grass while my kid plays video games! :shrug:

lateapex911
06-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Jerry-

..... Also the reality is "nationally" SCCA treats it's members like this is a business, they (along with you it seems) could care less about member input. " Blethen

Wow, I really disagree strongly with that statement, and you should think further..Just look at the schedule that we are racing this weekend. TWO races Saturday, qualifying AND a school Friday.

I can dig up the posts that Jerry wrote here looking for input, and he responded with pretty much exactly what we wanted. See also: NHMS schedule changes, group changes. I'm also willing to bet that he doesn't JUST come to IT.com for input, he's on other sites as well.

So, not only is he (and therefor the NER club racing board) looking for, and open to input, but as importantly, responsive to the input they get.

Also, you know that workers PAY to be at the events. Not many actually leave the weekend with more in their pockets than when they came...which kinda sucks. (and i know you've done it, and i appreciate that.)

RSTPerformance
06-12-2010, 11:06 PM
Jake.. Can't argue much about Jerry... He is generally a great leader and just about everyone in NER is family to me... I have grown up here. You have to admit Jerry's response was less than appealing to someone just trying to offer up ideas from the sideline.

Requiring people to work an EXTRA day or weekend a year is completely rediculouse. I am saying this as someone who has worked an extra day for several years... This year I am faced with very limited time to go to the track (getting married & would love to start a family) and the desire to give it a shot at finishing well in the NARRC championship in ITB. My summer is and has been completely booked since winter (this is one of my only sorta free weekends to get my race car ready). I am scheduled to go to 4 race weekends and I am racing at all of them. If you think I should be kicked out of the club for this then good luck on your goals... I wish you and the CRB luck.

Raymond

Raymond

RSTPerformance
06-12-2010, 11:16 PM
Oh yah PS... It costs all members money to go to a race. It cost all members money for a membership, those that work actually pay less. the only people that pay to go to our events are drivers who are racing. You can enter an event and work for free and even get a free lunch!

We need drivers and workers alike to support the club program. Some people are only going to drive and some are only going to work. We need to figure out how to bring out the ones willing to do both to win!

Raymond

lateapex911
06-13-2010, 12:35 AM
Requiring people to work an EXTRA day or weekend a year is completely rediculouse. I am saying this as someone who has worked an extra day for several years... This year I am faced with very limited time to go to the track (getting married & would love to start a family) and the desire to give it a shot at finishing well in the NARRC championship in ITB. My summer is and has been completely booked since winter (this is one of my only sorta free weekends to get my race car ready). I am scheduled to go to 4 race weekends and I am racing at all of them. If you think I should be kicked out of the club for this then good luck on your goals... I wish you and the CRB luck.

Raymond

Raymond

Raymond, where did I say ANY of that????

I'm just reading along here thinking about options.

Also, you missed my point about it costing workers money. Ignore whatever free lunch they get, etc. (That's all great though, as it should be).

From the time Ms Grid Worker leaves her house in say Uppertown VT, drives to Lime Rock this weekend, puts on her mandated whites, (which she paid for) eats breakfast on the road (X2 or 3), sleeps in a hotel, and returns home, she's spent money for food, shelter and gas.

You might say, "Sleep in a tent", well sure there's that option, but even that requires the purchasing of a tent. WE love to drive. But even YOU said you wouldn't stand on a corner for a day. So, that begs the question, is it any wonder that others don't want to either, AND have it cost them cash? (And a Friday off from work, and a whole Saturday?)

Sure, it's up some peoples alley enough that they do it. IT7 driver Grant McStay and his wife Eileen do it, heck, they came from the flaggers side of things, but I've heard both of them make comments about getting too old for it. Younger guys and girls aren't as readily available as they once were. Times and interests change....even you are telling us how you're too busy now to race much, and certainly not work corners as extra days...it's the same for lots of others. (Remember how you guys were giving me crap that I wasn't at every event and I commented about buying a house, having less $, and more time consuming projects on the house? perspective .....)

I'm thinking about the issue, and I'll certainly pitch in with my time. (I've spent my hours in the past on national level stuff more than Regional level things) One thought I have is that I'd like to see pay/kickback/benifits (call it what you want) get better for workers. If we need 80 to staff Lime Rock, and we get a entry of 240, and every driver adds a $20 to the worker fund, that's $4,800. Or $60 in the pocket of each worker. That's NOT the entire solution, but I think it would sure help.

RacerBill
06-13-2010, 01:03 AM
If we need 80 to staff Lime Rock, and we get a entry of 240, and every driver adds a $20 to the worker fund, that's $4,800. Or $60 in the pocket of each worker. That's NOT the entire solution, but I think it would sure help.

Here's another possible angle. At Road Atlanta, they open the track up for track rides, and charge $20 per car (goes towards a Worker Fund).

lateapex911
06-13-2010, 01:57 AM
Here's another possible angle. At Road Atlanta, they open the track up for track rides, and charge $20 per car (goes towards a Worker Fund).

I think I've seen that at Summit, and I think NER has a version they do at NHMS. At Lime Rock though, it's a tough deal. There just isnt much time , and getting it all in is really really tight sometimes. NO racing Sunday, NO racing Friday, (10AM start, I think) mandatory late start (no engines until 9AM) and a pretty early finish (all engines OFF by 6 on Sat, minus a break/lunch hour for the workers, plus the race length requirements for Nationals (not always an issue, but..) means that things need to run smoothly just to get the races done.

When possible though, it is a lot of fun.

BruceG
06-13-2010, 08:46 AM
Raymond, where did I say ANY of that????

I'm just reading along here thinking about options.

Also, you missed my point about it costing workers money. Ignore whatever free lunch they get, etc. (That's all great though, as it should be).

From the time Ms Grid Worker leaves her house in say Uppertown VT, drives to Lime Rock this weekend, puts on her mandated whites, (which she paid for) eats breakfast on the road (X2 or 3), sleeps in a hotel, and returns home, she's spent money for food, shelter and gas.

You might say, "Sleep in a tent", well sure there's that option, but even that requires the purchasing of a tent. WE love to drive. But even YOU said you wouldn't stand on a corner for a day. So, that begs the question, is it any wonder that others don't want to either, AND have it cost them cash? (And a Friday off from work, and a whole Saturday?)

Sure, it's up some peoples alley enough that they do it. IT7 driver Grant McStay and his wife Eileen do it, heck, they came from the flaggers side of things, but I've heard both of them make comments about getting too old for it. Younger guys and girls aren't as readily available as they once were. Times and interests change....even you are telling us how you're too busy now to race much, and certainly not work corners as extra days...it's the same for lots of others. (Remember how you guys were giving me crap that I wasn't at every event and I commented about buying a house, having less $, and more time consuming projects on the house? perspective .....)

I'm thinking about the issue, and I'll certainly pitch in with my time. (I've spent my hours in the past on national level stuff more than Regional level things) One thought I have is that I'd like to see pay/kickback/benifits (call it what you want) get better for workers. If we need 80 to staff Lime Rock, and we get a entry of 240, and every driver adds a $20 to the worker fund, that's $4,800. Or $60 in the pocket of each worker. That's NOT the entire solution, but I think it would sure help.

Spot on, Jake....BTW, has anyone stayed in Lakeville, Ct or the surrounding area at a hotel lately to attend an event at LRP. $100 doesn't even come close to covering your bill per night. I have to go to Miami this week to see an MD and my bill at a Marriot will be less than one night in CT!! Last Oct I called all the hotels,etc in the area and even Lenox, Ma was $200+ per night.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, our demographics have changed and the same folks(myself included) who would stay in a tent in the rain at Loudon or LRP,etc are now 60+ years old and don't want to camp anymore. This is the same pool that are willing to work at the tracks. I remember in the late 60's/early 70's that being a corner worker was an honor and there were more workers than spots open. Now, we(as drivers) may have to foot the bill for all worker expenses in order to attract folks to work at all. Next time you are doing a warm up(or cool down) lap, check out the stations(or paddock) and look at the average age of the workers.....20 somethings?.....not? Anyone know how NASA deals with this issue?

ner88
06-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Track rides.....Yes we have done them at NHMS.
We had a few people who would organize them and make it happen but now they are gone.
Now, every event someone comes to me and asks "are you giving track rides?"
My standard answer is "I'm not but if you want to put it together we can."
I'm sure I will be asked at the next event.

Next will be trophies:
When I took the position of CRB Chairman included was boxes of trophies and that job.
I don't want the trophy responsibilty and will not do it after this season.
So, unless someone steps up, that will go the way of track rides.

What kind of event can we run without T&S or tech?
It could happen!

Khammitte
06-13-2010, 10:01 AM
Next will be trophies:
When I took the position of CRB Chairman included was boxes of trophies and that job.
I don't want the trophy responsibilty and will not do it after this season.
So, unless someone steps up, that will go the way of track rides.



This sounds like something that my minimal skill set could take on next season, particularly if I could find one other person to work with, as I do not go to every race (most, not all)

Keith Hammitte

tdw6974
06-13-2010, 01:06 PM
This sounds like something that my minimal skill set could take on next season, particularly if I could find one other person to work with, as I do not go to every race (most, not all)

Keith Hammitte
Keith, good luck! here are some of the choices first how much to spend? do you want plaque or bowling type, where do you get them? Try on a National first(less classes to deal with) and of course if your trophy Queen fails to show you will be wearing a Tiara and passing out after the event!! Trust me I know:D. And be prepared to deal with the "leftovers" .There is need for assistance in all tasks of putting on an event are and I'm certain your region will appreciate your help. T Weavere:eclipsee_steering:

RSTPerformance
06-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Jake... Some suggested that every driver has to work a day.

Also I agree with worker fund idea but it needs to be managed appropriatly. $20 to me is very reasonable and it should be easy to hire some locals but we need to know the exact staffing. This idea will also atract new blood. Most young people in our society don't work for free anymore but that is another debate!

If we ever do outright pay workers give them the option to put it towards entries for other Scca events be it a race, autocross, rally, convention etc.

Raymond

RSTPerformance
06-13-2010, 02:20 PM
Another thought... Have we ever put adds on craigslist, radio or newspapers etc? Not sure if it in the budget but maybe instead of paying workers we need to hire a part time marketing person to manage outreach then someone could actually be held accountable to put things together.

Raymond

RacerBill
06-13-2010, 02:39 PM
I think I've seen that at Summit, and I think NER has a version they do at NHMS. At Lime Rock though, it's a tough deal. There just isnt much time , and getting it all in is really really tight sometimes. NO racing Sunday, NO racing Friday, (10AM start, I think) mandatory late start (no engines until 9AM) and a pretty early finish (all engines OFF by 6 on Sat, minus a break/lunch hour for the workers, plus the race length requirements for Nationals (not always an issue, but..) means that things need to run smoothly just to get the races done.

When possible though, it is a lot of fun.

Atlanta does it during the lunch hour. This is not racing, it's touring at less than highway speeds, so does that not fall outside of the limits placed on racing? Just askin'!

RSTPerformance
06-13-2010, 04:30 PM
Jerry- who do I need to talk to to put together Track Rides during lunch at Lime Rock this weekend? I have run most of them from the tower at NHIS the last few years and might be able to get a few people together to put it on during lunch. ALL proceeds go in envelopes and get raffled off to the workers. Is it you or Peter?

Raymond

ner88
06-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Not sure if you are talking about worker track rides or drive arounds for anyone.
Worker rides take planning and I don't think you can get much done on short notice.
Drive arounds, not sure they are allowed at LRP.

Either way, this is really too late.
I'd be glade to talk to you about doing this at furure events but it's too late for LRP.

P.S I'm not willing to discuss the why on this forum, sorry.

tdw6974
06-13-2010, 08:28 PM
At WgI we can't do a"Lunchtime" drive around as WGI use that time for events they have sold ie Plmouth Prowlers club Gold wing riders club Boy scouts sometimes hold a camp out at track and we try to welcome them sit in cars etc. They do ask alot of questions and they sure have engery! T Weaver

dickita15
06-14-2010, 07:49 AM
All this discussion about making people work honestly does little. People do not do a good job if they do not want to be there.

What we really need is a culture shift where someone who races 2-4 weekends a year wants to work a weekend or two. I understand that most people have busy lives but working an event can be fun, it can be challenging and it can give you some great insight that can make your racing events much easier.

I have always been intrigued that in road rally you have to drop one event for points and when you work one event a year you score championship points.

raffaelli
06-14-2010, 08:26 AM
I should charge more to give it back??
What do you say to the volunteer who works for free when they find out you are paying drivers??
Why do you have to bribe drivers?
It's a G..D..club, every driver is responsible for the event.
1/2 day workers, I'll put you incharge of keeping track of them and getting them to their positions.

How about you sign up for one work day a year or you don't race.

What happened to driver log books?????

I volunteered two days to get my license and thought it is a great idea to make that part of the license.

How about adding two days along with the two races a year?

karen petersen
06-14-2010, 01:49 PM
Greg,

Thank you for your very well-thought out post. Recruiting and retention have been an issue in SCCA since I began in 1979. There are, of course, no magic bullets (if there were, we'd be crawling with workers).

A lot of you expressed some tentative interest in trying out what we do. You are ALL welcome, with open arms. We love what we do and love to show it off to others. No experience necessary, trust me. If that were a requirement, I'd never have made the cut. We'll train you all along the way.

Some positions, by necessity, require you to commit to a portion of a day. (It's kinda hard to stop things to bring in a flagger because he has to come into the paddock midway through the morning). For most of us, however, we'll welcome you for whatever amount of time you can spare. Hey, your first commitment has to be to yourself and your race car. We get that.

Try diffferent specialties. I think you'll find, pretty consistantly, that we work hard, have a lot of fun, and wrap up the day with satisfaction, knowing we put our hearts and backs into it. My intention, as a worker, is to show you the ropes, give you a safe and enjoyable experience, and hope you liked it enough that you'll come back on your own, because you want to. There's no higher praise.

I'm listed in the Pit Talk directory, and welcome calls or emails: [email protected]. I love SCCA and love to get people involved. I haven't done this for 30+ years because it's a chore.

Karen Petersen
Grid chief, NER & NYR

tdw6974
06-14-2010, 03:41 PM
Heck if you do volunteer you can get a reduction in membership renewnal. TW

raffaelli
06-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Karen, welcome!

Watched you for many years on the fan side of the fence. Your one of the people that made getting on the track easier!

I will contact you about working in grid. Looks like fun!

Chris

karen petersen
06-14-2010, 04:41 PM
Thanks, Chris! I really appreciate that. We don't do it for the thank yous, but they are sweet when they come. I'd love to share the grid experience with you, any time. As Judy said once, we have more fun than should be legal.

Karen

raffaelli
06-14-2010, 04:55 PM
Thanks, Chris! I really appreciate that. We don't do it for the thank yous, but they are sweet when they come.....As Judy said once, we have more fun than should be legal.

Karen

That's exactly what you said to me in New Hampshire a few years ago!

RacerBill
06-15-2010, 07:46 AM
That's exactly what you said to me in New Hampshire a few years ago!

Try Sound Control! Our motto is 'It's the least we can do, and still get in free!'

karen petersen
06-15-2010, 08:57 AM
Just goes to show you I still mean it.