Data Acquisition: DL1, Traqmate, AIM, ...

[ScotMac]

I'm looking to pick up a data system, w/ a electronic display. Since i know nothing about it, i have a few questions:

1. I have seen it quoted that AIM is popular in SFR. Are there *some* DL1 users out west also?

2. I want the display to be my primary/backup guages, and i would like it also to pickup interesting things like TPS and braking. Can a DL1 (or ??) be hooked up to a GM OBD1 ECM (Fiero)? Or do i need to splice it into the lines from the senders? Or do i have to have to hook up all new senders?!?

3. How important/useful is a linked video system? Which of the systems is the most flexible, in terms of adding a 3rd party video system (or linking w/ a generic video file) ?

Thanks, Scot

[lateapex911]

To me, rule number one, two, AND three, is to get what the locals have. Even if they are in different cars..

AIM has extensive capabilities to interface with stock ECUs, but, I really doubt they can go back to an 80s GM product. Now, I think you can trigger the 6 'alarm' lights (3 to each side of an MXL dash display) with sensors. When I test airboxes, for example, I rig one to light below atmospheric pressure, and one above. I can see it in the car which is good, as it gives me instant info when I test. It would be easy to do brakes as well, but that would be simple on off. I imagine you could also port data to the display, indicating % of effort, either based on pressures from the lines or a string pot on the pedal.

I haven't added the video except in a standalone manner, but the AIm system seems pretty powerful. Sorry that's not too helpful!

[924Guy]

The AIM system is pretty expensive for adding on video, it seems.

I have both an AIM system (MyChron 3) and a DL1, and have played with others too.

A GPS-based system is wonderful, not having to deal with a beacon. Get real tired of having to go back to the track for that! LOL

I have really come to hate the AIM interface for downloading data - having to get a computer to recognize the USB drivers is really annoying. The DL1, by contrast, just pop in the chip, in the card reader, and we're done.

Re: OBD1 connection - good luck with that! LOL It's conceivable you could make it happen, but wouldn't be easy. Might be far easier to just add the sensors you need. I have not managed to get an AIM system to read accurately in parallel with an existing gauge, FWIW.

My AIM system allows 5 analog inputs, with 4 alarm lights like Jake mentioned. My DL1 has 8 analog inputs, plus others.

I'd be more concerned about reading in TPS and brakes as a switch - 100% full-on (WOT) and on/off vs % or other such values. Braking and full-throttle apply points will be most of what you need in an ITB car in particular, not much modulation needed. IOW, that'll be 90% of the info you need.

Again - go with what other people you race with run.

[Marcus Miller]

Hi Scott,

We definitely (at least amongst the SM crowd) have a bias towards AiM in SFR. I'm not sure what the sportsracers and Formula cars are running, but the SM (and conversely the ITA, since they are mostly double dippers) crowd seems to be the most heavily into data systems.
I personally had a traqmate, and will be selling it shortly, replacing it in my new car with a DL1 / Dash2 combo. I don't know the aswers to your specific questions, as I'll be running a Megasquirt, on a turbo`d Miata motor.

The person I would call with this question would be Jeremy Lucas at Fasttech limited (Fasttechlimited.com). He;'s on this board, but I don't know his username.

Marcus

[ScotMac]

Well, i'm glad there will be atleast one DL1 out there. What is your schedule for getting the ITE car on the track, Marcus?

I agree that it makes sense to run what other ppl are running. But i can't get past the lack of a detachable memory card on the AiM products and their stuff seems to be bit behind...ie, a bit of an older system.

In terms of OBD1, isn't it just a low baud rate (8k?) serial line? It thought i saw that most of the systems have been setup to work w/ aftermarket racing ECU's that put out data via a serial line. Which puts them in the ballpark of OBD1, though it would obviously still require some tweaking of their software to recognize the specific stream.

[924Guy]

Enquiring for more info about OBD1 vs. II, and Fiero-specific stuff... will let you know if I hear anything...

[Marcus Miller]

Well, i'm glad there will be atleast one DL1 out there. What is your schedule for getting the ITE car on the track, Marcus?

I agree that it makes sense to run what other ppl are running. But i can't get past the lack of a detachable memory card on the AiM products and their stuff seems to be bit behind...ie, a bit of an older system.


Its at Evil Genius in West Sac getting the cage in now. I still need to:
Finish bolting together the motor, and dry fitting the turbo kit.
Swap the ITA suspension off my other car, and refit the SM kit to it
do final construction, and dyno tune.
I'm also 120 ish days from my wedding, so that is its own adventure.
I'm hoping to have it out and at least test it before I get married.

I agree on the AiM products. The biggest issues I can think of are the consistency with which the data transfer cabels seem to have faults and the flakiness of the GPS add-on. The folks I work with nmost often moved away from it, going back to trackside beacons.

Marcus

[lateapex911]

Its at Evil Genius in West Sac getting the cage in now. I still need to:
Finish bolting together the motor, and dry fitting the turbo kit.
Swap the ITA suspension off my other car, and refit the SM kit to it
do final construction, and dyno tune.
I'm also 120 ish days from my wedding, so that is its own adventure.
I'm hoping to have it out and at least test it before I get married.

I agree on the AiM products. The biggest issues I can think of are the consistency with which the data transfer cabels seem to have faults and the flakiness of the GPS add-on. The folks I work with nmost often moved away from it, going back to trackside beacons.

Marcus

??? tell me more about this flakiness of the GPS...I lost my beacon. :( I've been using GPS.

[924Guy]

Feedback from my technical expert/crew chief (who's a software/EE guy in automotive) - OBD1 will be too slow to be worth a dayum. On top of the technical challenges getting it to work.

Sounds like you're better off adding your own sensors.

[Marcus Miller]

??? tell me more about this flakiness of the GPS...I lost my beacon. :( I've been using GPS.

Jake,
It was getting and keeping a gps signal to the recorder, not the accuracy of the signal. For whatever reason they couldn't maintain a gps lock. At the same events I didn't have an issue with my traqmate system. I'm also not anticipating an issue with the DL1.

[lateapex911]

Interesting, my MXL hasn't shown any issues that I'm aware of in that regard. I'll have to check carefully for that.

[jlucas]

Not sure what's common in your area but if you want to talk more about system differences just give me a call. Number is on my website.

[RacerBill]

Jeremy is a good source and can talk about the pros and cons of different systems. Also check out www.race-keeper.com (http://www.race-keeper.com) for a system that is easy to set up and easy to use (analyze the information).

[ScotMac]

Thanks for all the info guys. Not sure it made the choice any easier, though I still don't like the age of the AiM system, nor the fact that it doesn't have a detachable card (let alone the GPS and beacon issues). Still not sure any system can use GM OBD1 effectively (assuming the 8k baud is fast enough) nor effectively hook into my existing senders (thanks for looking into it Vaughn). And still only know of *1* (future) user of race tech/DL1 in SFR. :shrug:

[Marcus Miller]

Thanks for all the info guys. Not sure it made the choice any easier, though I still don't like the age of the AiM system, nor the fact that it doesn't have a detachable card (let alone the GPS and beacon issues). Still not sure any system can use GM OBD1 effectively (assuming the 8k baud is fast enough) nor effectively hook into my existing senders (thanks for looking into it Vaughn). And still only know of *1* (future) user of race tech/DL1 in SFR. :shrug:

I'd poke around at the next regional (okay, Laguna is tough, some don't go there...) or two ( and of course, that weekend in July is my bachelor party) for folks with the same systems.

total aside: You are in belmont? I'm in SM, off 3rd ave, on the foster city side... shoot me an email, we should grab a beer or something marcustmiller-at-gmail-dot-com

Marcus

[finger lock]

There are a couple of us RX7 guys who use the DL1. I'll be at Laguna next week, stop by and say hello. Yellow 1993 RX7 #33.

Guy

[ScotMac]

Hey Marcus, i'm just over 92 from you (belmont hills, just off of 92/280/ralston). I actually just setup my garage w/ a lift, tire changer, and balancer. So, maybe i can trade tire changing for DL1 data files?!? Guy, you are in menlo? We get a few more, we can do our own peninsula parking lot race. Speaking of which, do you know of a good testing lot in the peninsula? I go over by redwood city seaport, if it is going to be quick. If not, I usually go all the way to alameda naval base!

I'm shooting for laguna next week, but depending on how the test day goes, i may only be there thursday! :( I'll definitely stop by, if i make it to the weekend, Guy.

[ScotMac]

Oh, and congrats Marcus. You are a braver man than I! ;)

[Marcus Miller]

Very nice Scott! Once the car resembles more than a bare tub, I'd happily trade some data with you :)

and Thanks! 106 days to go.. :gulp: