Any EEs out there? Is this easy?

[rhygin]

Ah... a little project idea/pipe dream for y'all who know about electrons.

I have a lap timer that needs a beacon. Thinking about using the lap timer a bit to get some more real time feedback if something I am doing is working or not. However, never had such good luck with beacons and IR signals. So... and idea... and yes, I am looking to save some moola as there are some great and integrated solutions out there.

I have this (Ultra lap timer)...

http://www.xtracing.com/en/ultralap/index.php

and was wondering about how to modify it to accept something like this...

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=gps+antenna&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=10505413956961596721&ei=ns71S4GWDcSBlAfHx4TKCg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD8Q8wIwAw#

Ideally... I could do away with the beacon and have and have a slick little system for very short money. Here is where the EE questions come in.

Is this possible? Would it be hard to do? Pipe dream?

I am sure there would be some configuration and changes, but thought it worth the effort to explore. If it is not that hard... maybe a tiny, tiny, tiny business prop exists?

Thanks!
Brad

[MMiskoe]

I am not the guy who's done it, but I've been the recipient of it. A friend has built some stuff like this told me that the hardware side of it is cheap. Putting it together so it works takes time, building software that is user friendly is where the big costs come in.

From what I can gather something like your lap timer or a data logger has very little cost in the components. Its the cost of the people who can assemble the parts and builds a user interface that gets you.

To answer your question, yes it could be done. It will work fine on the bench and the guy who builds it will be able to understand it perfectly. But getting it to the point you can hand it to someone as a turn key would be hard.

[rhygin]

yeah... looking to just use a different "trigger" on an existing unit and maintain the interface and such.

Maybe a stop watch on the wheel and a passenger to write them down?

[evanwebb]

I think what you are proposing is to design your own DL-1, and uhh, it would be a lot of work... Save your lunch money for awhile and head on over to the Race Technology website and order up the real thing.

PS I have designed various electronic thingies that are flying in satellites way way up over our heads right now ;-)

[RacerBill]

+1 what Evan said. Let the experts do the designing and building. However, today there are several systems to chose from. Aside from the ease of installation, you need to understand all of the features of the different systems (what data they will acquire), and the software ( how that data is presented and how easy is it to use). You will be much more satisfied with your choice if it can actually help improve performance (driver and car). Once you get a feel for what is available, you will need to decide what is important to you, and what you are willing to pay (always comes down to cost, doesn't it?).

I would try to find some fellow drivers who are using data acquisition systems and ask them about their systems. Also, visit the websites of the various manufacturers, download their softrware (if the software is free), and check out the functions of the systems. You can find all the major players in this market advertising in GrassRoots Motorsports. Also, see if they have reps in your area (be prepared for their marketing hype unless they represent multiple vendors).

As a rep for one of these companies, I have a vested interest in developing your interest in data acquisition, however, I have kept my comments very neutral, so that you can chose the system that is right for you.

[disquek]

I think that there are a lot of folks that dont want to hassle with a full DAQ and that want lap times and are sick of the shortcomings of beacon style timers.

This is not a new idea. There are several approaches to it.

iPhone app:
http://web.me.com/hschlangmann/LapTimer_Homepage/Home.html
This idea's biggest issue is it's 1hz update frequency.

This one looks good, but it's spendie.
http://www.rumblestripracing.com/DLT3GPS.html

GPS based timing is tricky. Even the best cheap GPS update at maybe 5hz. Without something to interpolate they're just too coarse grained for our purposes (only accurate to 1/5 of a second). To add something to interpolate (wheel speed sensor or accelerometers) adds complexity and cost.

Hopefully this tech will gain some traction and be viable for the non DAQ folks out there.

-Kyle

[BruceG]

You can get realtime laptimes since we all have AMD transponders. Just purchase the Blind Apex dispaly and hook it up.

[JohnRW]

Blind Apex doesn't work on test days (i.e. T&S not manned), and not all SCCA regions have the correct AMB "decoder" that enables the trigger signal for Blind Apex.

[Sandro]

I had an Ultra Lap timer and it worked perfect. Only reason I don't have it anymore is because I got a DL1.

Do you have the beacon sitting at the same height as the receiver in the car? Is the receiver aimed parallel to the floor?

I used to hook my beacon to a small car battery that way it always had a strong signal.

[rhygin]

Thanks for the responses to date...

I have a DL1 and it has been good for me to understand what happened and what I did right or wrong. However... it is an "end of process" tool for me as I am struggling with the idea of another $1200 for a Dash 2 when you are done with a few sensors or the Dash 3 light or Dash # for a $300 - $500 all in. I like tha tthere are a lot of DL1s in the area, but the display stuff is steep.

I am trying to do a lot "on the cheap." Having said that the DL1 is 4 years old when I was in a different position in life.

All I want is a simple, cheap, easy, reliable, accurate LAP TIMER.... gots the other stuff and given some analysis... I need to literally see when something worked on the spot.

So... I will try to rig up the timer again and maybe try a lawn tractor battery.

There should be a way to make a simple, easy, large display, small case size (i.e. XT lap timer and not a Dash 3) with limited to no functionality... except for lap timing and maybe best lap highlights.

Any thoughts on my proposed recycling program?
Thanks!!!!!
BB

[JoshS]

This might be what you're looking for, but I don't know if it qualifies as "on the cheap." The basic models still need a beacon, but the GPS-based one doesn't.

http://www.rumblestripracing.com/products.html

[Eric Parham]

All I want is a simple, cheap, easy, reliable, accurate LAP TIMER.... gots the other stuff and given some analysis... I need to literally see when something worked on the spot.

I'd try a smartphone (e.g., iPhone, WinMo, Android, etc.) with either a built-in or tethered GPS, and an app like LapTimer or iLap. The two most common problems with the built-in GPS are 1) low signal strength on cloudy days, which can often be solved with an external cellular antenna covering the GPS band, and 2) low refresh rate, which is sometimes as low as 5 or even 1 Hz, but the better apps do some sort of interpolation to get the times within a tenth or so of actual. It may also help to initialize from either side of the track rather than center.

[ScotMac]

I would just buy a cheap display for the DL1. In order to do the NON beacon, GPS, lap timers, you need at least 5hz update rate GPS, and you already have that w/ the DL1. The Dash3lite gives you the lap times, and is fairly inexp. If you can't handle new, used ones come up periodically.

The pda/phones are 1hz GPS...once per second, and you want greater than one second granularity. The best software for the phones is probably the Android based TrackMaster. To get the 5hz update rate needed, you have to add an external GPS receiver, which the TrackMaster software supports. The Qstarz GPS receivers can be had for under $100, and are what the creator of TrackMaster recommends. TrackMaster is only $10 (base plus 5hz GPS option), so you have a lap timer for around $100. But what is the point? After all that, you have limited solution, for not that much less than the Dash3Lite, which can be upgraded to the full Dash3 at any time.

Here is one of the recommended Qstarz 5hz GPS receiver:http://www.amazon.com/BT-Q818X-Qstarz-Bluetooth-Receiver-Hardware/dp/B000N763WE


BTW, for others reading this, a cool CHEAP data acquisition tool is the Qstarz BT-Q1000EX. It is a GPS data logger, so it has its own internal memory to store the lap data. It then comes w/ pretty good Motorsport based data analysis and graphing data to show what it logged. It is exactly NOT what Brad wants, since he already has a DL1, which is better. But is an interesting option:

http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%20Products/BT-Q1000.html

So, that, combined w/ the TrackMaster (w/ android phone) for the display, could give you a DAQ tool *and* lap timer for around $120!

[rhygin]

Cool... maybe santa will come early... or the tire fairy!

My fixed beacon timer worked well until the persopn whom owned the timer went home or it got wet!...

I should get the DASH 3 at some point to coordinate with the DL1... but it seems like a lot of scratch for a simple tool with all of the brains in the DL1.

Thanks for all of the input to everyone!
BB

[RacerBill]

Brad: One thing to consider is the ability to add syncronized video to you toolbag. This gives you the advantage of not only data, but video that shows you visually what is going on. Having a system that instantly takes you to the event you want to analyze can save an emense amount of time. Laps are made up of many descrete events.