Tire mounting machines

[gran racing]

I'm getting quite tired of paying ~ $25 per tire for mounting & aligning. There are a couple of places that will do it for less, but they also involve a 1/2 hour drive, drop them off and come back another day. In the end the cost savings is minimal when everything is factored and just not worth it.

On the sandbox someone had a similar thread, and this system was mentioned:
http://rogerkrausracing.com/pages/rkrmountingsystem.html

I spoke with the shop and they deal with several race teams who use them at the track such as Indy Lites. For just myself, it's probably not the smartest investment considering the break even time frame. The other big factor if is just how challenging it would be to mount 14" 225s on 6" rims using that or other similar machines. Anyone here have experience with that or other similar machines?

I also looked through Craigslist and eBaymotors to see what air powered units might be available, but nothing at a semi-reasonable price.

Anyone here mount their own tires?

[splats]

I have a smaller/cheaper version of that & its a pain to use, except on small tires (wheel-barrow, etc). I have a local shop that lets me mount/balance for free if I do it. However, I go to Walmart. They charge me $5 to mount & $5 to balance. I drop them off, shop, & they are ready in an hour. You would have to mount a lot of tires to get your money back on a machine, not to mention loss of garage space.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Kessler has no tire machine?

[RacerBill]

I got a deal with a local store of a major chain. I put their logo on my car, list them as a sponsor on my entry forms, and put my car on display when they has a tent sale once or twice a year, and he mounts and balances all my tires, free. I also gave him a nice framed picture of the car to hang in the store.

[Greg Amy]

Kessler has no tire machine?
Nope. It's neither cost-effective nor time-effective to bust and balance your own tires. You *may* save money in the long run, but it's a time-sucker. Find someone local willing to cut you a deal and use your time better spent on more important things. See "comparative advantage".

[gran racing]

Plus he doesn't have a rental fleet. I can see it making sense for your shop though Andy.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Plus he doesn't have a rental fleet. I can see it making sense for your shop though Andy.

What if you 5 went in on it? Then you can change your own tires and save the money if you have the extra time...and he can bill people for his work. $25 per tire is like $200/hour.

[Greg Amy]

What if you 5 went in on it?
You assume all five of us have that kind of motivation... ;) I don't want to bust my own tires, Jeremy barely has time to piss let alone work on the car, Jeff's too...ahem..."busy" with his girlfriend, and Kessler can make a lot more money doing others things.

Now, if Dave is willing to do all the work for all five of us, then hell yeah I'm in for a fifth!

;)

[ner88]

I bought a used machine last year for $600. and a HF balancer for $60.
Takes no time to change tires and it beats Humping tires to someones shop!:rolleyes:
Lots of guys who sell machines take old units in trade.

[MMiskoe]

I have a HF machine that is now 5 or 6 years old and still going strong. My dad & I went in on it together and between the two of us doing race & street tires for ourselves I considered to be well paid off (I used $5 per tire on or off for my math). I think that we paid about $1200 for it delivered.

The balancer is a bubble type, I think it came from Northern Equipment. Not expensive. Works fine for race tires, some street car tires are a bit bumpy at 75mph+, but most are OK.

Once you get the hang of it, it doesn't take that much time and it is so much handier than having to lug the tires somewhere, then go back & pick them up. Yes it takes time, but from start to finish, how long does it take to make two trips to the tire shop? I like it from the perspective that I can do it when ever I need to, not at someone elses schedule or will.

[Lael Cleland]

I bought a HF mounter/balancer for $999.00 each Plus a 20% coupon, $1600 plus tax.... BUT i own a Biz and sell tires.......They seam to be good tools! had them for 2 years now....

[cherbi7]

I use walmart... only 4 bucks a tire to dismount and mount a tire. just my two cents

[gran racing]

There are two Walmarts near me and neither do anything with tires. Called a bunch of shops, spoke with owners, offered cash....least expensive I found is $16 per tire but they want to see the tires first. Their hours suck though. Couldn't make it before work or after. Maybe on a Saturday.

[Lael Cleland]

I do Race Tires for beer usually...... I know I am not the only shop owner that races & drinks.....Use Beer to initiate the proposal when you walk in to an independent shop W/tire machine...... Smaller shop the better......

[kevin22]

I bought a used tire mounting machine last fall, $500. quickly de-greased and sanded. Painted it with a hammer finish. Looks brand new. Last month I bought a used Electric high speed balancer, $450. Painted that also. It will take 10-12 sets before it pays for itself but it is so nice to own. There were some set of tires that were not good enough to race but good for track days and practice. But having to pay someone to mount and dismount made it not worth saving them. Now I can save tires that still have life in them and mount them at no cost.

[tom91ita]

everytime i look at doing this i then ask myself "and just where would you put this in the magically shrinking garage?"

[seckerich]

My local tire shop sold me their old rim clamp machine cheap if I promised to never show up with another cantilever slick to mount on a 6" rim. 10 years ago and still paying for itself. They usually get 300-500 trade in so they are happy to sell you their old stuff.

[gran racing]

"and just where would you put this in the magically shrinking garage?"

My wife often asks me when did our basement become another garage? That's where a tire mounting machine would go at my house.

What places besides Craigs list and eBay are good for finding a decent used tire mounting / balancing machine?

[tom91ita]

Dave,

there are more and more on-line auction places popping up (at least in Michigan....) where people and companies just drop stuff off and it gets sold.

http://www.1800lastbid.com/search.cfm?search=balancer

this is unlike E-bay in that you can go and see the stuff if nearby but then have to bid on it on-line and then can pick it up.

[ner88]

Dave
Call TEC in N. Attleboro MA, Glen, he's a racer as well.
888.594.7800 they sell new and may have tradeins.

[gran racing]

Just called TEC and Glen will be giving me a call about used machines. Will have to look into auctions as well.

How old do you think my son needs to be before tire mounting can become one of his chores? :D

[Sandro]

buy a setup like this: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/1725973998.html

charge Greg and the others $20 a tire and 30 sets later it will be payed off. After that during racing season you might not have to work anymore. Mount it on a trailer and you can drive to peoples houses/work and change tires (thats actually not a bad idea)

[ner88]

How old do you think my son needs to be before tire mounting can become one of his chores? :D

I'm not sure your old enough?:happy204:

[Greg Amy]

charge Greg and the others $20 a tire and 30 sets later it will be payed off.
See? That man's THINKIN'!

Though we gotta negotiate on that price...

;)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Buy it and just make Jeremy do the work.

[Sandro]

See? That man's THINKIN'!

Though we gotta negotiate on that price...

;)

$20 includes him taking the wheel off the car, mounting, balancing, washing the rim and putting in back on the car (I would torque my own wheels, I never trust anyone else)

[ScotMac]

I just bought this:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Combo-Specials-s/78.htm

TC221 and WB11 combo. Is a great price for a rim clamp and computer based balancer. Don't know about the quality, though. The rim clamp blew an air line after a few hours hooked up to the compressor. Couldve been my fault, though. The compress psi was a little high. They took a part off their display machine, and are sending it to me (nice service response). I'll let you know the quality once i use them for a while.

I don't know how much Greg Smith charges for shipping, since i found a semi local guy that gave about the same price ($2k). But he does have 4 or so different *outlets* scattered around the US.

[ScotMac]

Also, i don't know if i would use the static balancers (bubble). Obviously a trade off between the big difference is price, even when comparing the cheap stuff i bought, and the big difference in balancing for a static balance and a spin balance...it's gotta take something off your time to be vibrating down the straight! ;)

[gran racing]

Buy it and just make Jeremy do the work. LMAO. I'll have to send him a bill for half of it too.

I have two other people who are willing to chip in a little. I'd need to find a machine for $1,000 or under. I do wonder how difficult it would be to change tires using the manual machine I referenced in the beginning of this thread. I saw one used being sold for about $600, but within 15 minutes of the guy posting it he already had several offers to buy it.

[philstireservice]

Great thread......:happy204:

[tom91ita]

Great thread......:happy204:

i have actually taken tires to the track and paid slightly more to have the tires done trackside by Phil.

it is worth it to me to support those that come track side. if Walmart would dothat and charge the $5 per tire, they will get my business.

[dj10]

Gee and I bitch about paying $15 a tire. I guess I'll stop bitching...:~)

[ScotMac]

I actually also support the track side guys. They provide a good service.

However, the guys in our area have not had the tires i wanted a few times, and i have had to have them shipped. I then wanted to get them mounted and cure them before getting to the track. So, overall, useful and convenient to do it myself. In fact, i can't believe that ppl that work on their cars as much as most racers do (many do their own engine rebuilds), do not want to do their own tires.

[gran racing]

A friend gave me a call after seeing this thread and we're going to look at a tire changing machine today. A shop closed down and they need to get rid of it (at a great price!).

How big of a compressor is needed to run one of these? Also talking about minimal use versus a shop using it often.

[philstireservice]

Most can run on 135 psi.

[dj10]

I agree with supporting the track side companys, but... it should be a two way street. If they are going to slam you because they are the only game it town....I hate people or companies that take advantage of certain situations. Everyone has to make a buck but......

[ScotMac]

Mine recommends 110 to 140 psi. My compressor was set to somewhere between 150 and 160 when i blew the hose connection.

[philstireservice]

I agree with supporting the track side companys, but... it should be a two way street. If they are going to slam you because they are the only game it town....I hate people or companies that take advantage of certain situations. Everyone has to make a buck but......


What is considered slamming?

[lateapex911]

I try to use the boys at the track when I can. But, that's difficult with schedules and needs. My local guy hit's me for over 100 for a set. And it's a drop off we'll get to them and come back tomorrow deal.

I've talked with lots of shop owners in the area, (that I'd actually trust with race tires and race wheels) and around here, there are no "pizza and beer" deals, heck, most shops won't touch them to start with. And some of the track guys hit me for an extra charge if they don't actually sell the tire. (Even if it's a brand they don't sell).

So, I see the need for doing it yourself....

[gran racing]

Took a look at the machine, and for the price I can't go wrong with it. Now actually figuring out how to use it and the various tricks is another story.

Onto Balancers. Think the one in my original post would work okay? A true machine is way over my budget and think needs.

[lateapex911]

Wow, think Melissa is going to notice it in the basement when she gets back before or after the PS3? She leaves for two days...... and $$$$, LOL.
At least you can tell her you're saving $$ with the tire machine.

Oh, yea, how are you going to get it in the basement? Oh, Al?

[gran racing]

Happy mothers day?

Didn't pick up the machine today, just looked at it and gave a deposit.

[tom91ita]

Dave,

sent you the P/N and description for the old HF mini balancer.

looks a lot like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINI-WHEEL-BUBBLE-LEVEL-BALANCER-KIT-PRIORITY-MAIL-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c1248f01dQQitemZ12056 5854237QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools

or try the $59.99 on at an HF store on sale and with a 20% off coupon.

the mini one looks small and light enough to pack and take trackside.

[gran racing]

Thanks Tom! Wonder what the difference between this harbor freight unit is compared to the Krause one? Looks the same and imagine it's just harbor freight's purchasing power?

http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-wheel-balancer-39741.html

http://rogerkrausracing.com/pages/rkrmountingsystem.html

How often should valve stems be replaced? Where can these be purchased and are there any ones better than others? (I'll shy away from the metal ones.)

Wheel weights, valve tool, and those items - just get at harbor freight or know of anyther good source?

I'm a little nervous about figuring out how to use all of this stuff, but looking forward to giving it a try.

[robits325is]

I don't bother balancing my race wheels. Never had any problem with vibration. Wheel weights arn't cheap and once the tires heat up they balance themselves

[ner88]

I save the old stick on weights, buy new double stick tape.
HF unit works great for race tires.
Buy the shortest valve stems you can find, NAPA has 5/8 long stems in boxes of 10.
I change mine once a season, them again I will swap tires 2 or 3 times a year!

[Sandro]

I use this:
http://www.cyclehill-tirechanger-secure.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BL%2DStandard

came with my tire changer and it works pretty good. I made my own cones to match my rims. The way I see it is, between flat spots and rubber pick up their is no need for a 100% perfect balance.

[r snook]

Dave for supplies such as lubricants, valves, and plugs/patches (if you do your own street tires) you could try contacting Tech (you'll have to Google them) and get their local distributor to help you out.

[gran racing]

Bought the balancer tonight. From the picture, it looks so much bigger. Using one of my existing race rims, put it on there after making sure it was level to begin with. Wow, pretty cool!! It would be pretty interesting to take the tire and put it on a shops machine and see how close it is.

[Z3_GoCar]

Anyone spin ballance the rims on the car? It's how they're ballanced on over the road rigs and how car tires used to be ballanced. Still have to wonder about the side to side balance that's missed with static ballance jobs. Could be important with wider rims.

[gran racing]

Just got back from having the two other tires mounted at Town Fair Tire in CT. OMG! This just reaffirmed that getting the tire mounting machine was a good idea. The guy gave me such an attitude about mounting the two tires because I didn't buy them there. Ummm, you've mounted several in the recent past and I asked if you guys could get them. Last time they said they weren't able to get them, but can mount them because of this. They wanted to charge me $71 to mount two tires. The valve stems - $15 for two. Seriously?

Okay, don't balance them or put brand new valve stems on them. Oh, he loved that! You NEED valve stems. Dude, you didn't even look at the tires or valve stems and they were recently replaced. But we don't have a way to charge you for just mounting them. Grumble, grumble. (I had no problem if they charged me something reasonable for doing this.) It'll be $2 each to get rid of the tires. No problem I tell him and mention that I honestly don't have an issue paying them to mount the tires. But I can't input that into the computer.

Well, why is it costing me $71 to mount two tires this time? That's insane. We don't mount other people tires, and that's what it costs. Left paying $4 and change. Was sure to talk to him about his poor attitude and crappy way of handling things. Also won't be purchasing the truck tires I came in for a quote last week, and will mention the experience to my friend who does quite a bit of business with you guys (a car dealership).

I told my friend who was there watching the guy in disbelief that this just reaffirms buying the tire machines was well worth it. At least I say that now before I've attempted to use it. LOL

[ScotMac]

Why don't you just use your new machine?

Here is a good video for how to use it, assuming it is a standard rim clamp (gotta put up w/ a bit of propaganda, but not too bad):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfXCaxNHmns

[gran racing]

I haven't picked up yet, have a race weekend starting on Friday and didn't want to worry about getting it / figuring out how to use it in time. Will be playing around with it in a week or so on some junk rims and tires.

The one I'm getting is a Coats 2020 unit. He quickly showed me how to use it, but didn't absorb all of the information. Trying to find an online manual for it...

[Lael Cleland]

As far as supplies go, You can get a 6lb box of stick on weights for $20, local REAL (not advanced or autozone) parts store.. Box of 50 valve stems, $16ish.....I use a guy I met at the track now for supplies, all he dose is sell shop stuff!
Get a second Tire spoon! Very helpful!

[ScotMac]

Sorry, ignore that instructional video i posted. The coats 20-20 is a older style center post tire changer. I think the closest to it that coats still produces is the 40-40. Here is the 40-40's manual:

http://partners.ammcoats.com/docman/viewFile.asp?sParm=ca-t~B-tdammnCmo

[philstireservice]

I haven't picked up yet, have a race weekend starting on Friday and didn't want to worry about getting it / figuring out how to use it in time. Will be playing around with it in a week or so on some junk rims and tires.

The one I'm getting is a Coats 2020 unit. He quickly showed me how to use it, but didn't absorb all of the information. Trying to find an online manual for it...



A Coats 20-20 ???.. Be very very careful. Follow the directions carefully....Steel wheels, no problem, alloy wheels...it will take some practice, a lot of practice, and if you are not VERY careful you will break the center of the wheel.The downward pressure on the center of the wheel, when you step on the pedal, is quite significant. It was designed to be used on steel wheels ( this machine was ancient already when I started in the tire business 34 years ago), not alloy. Not to say that it won't do some alloy wheels, but the equipment is only as good as the operator within the machines capabilities...Also, make sure the guy who buy it from gives you the plastic covers for the tire bar so it doesn't scratch your wheels. Without them, it WILL scratch your wheels.

[philstireservice]

As far as supplies go, You can get a 6lb box of stick on weights for $20, local REAL (not advanced or autozone) parts store.. Box of 50 valve stems, $16ish.....I use a guy I met at the track now for supplies, all he dose is sell shop stuff!
Get a second Tire spoon! Very helpful!


By the steel polyester coated stick on weights....the lead stick on weights are being banned slowly but surely state by state.

TR412 valves are the shortest (not easy to find), TR413 valves are the most common

[philstireservice]

I don't bother balancing my race wheels. Never had any problem with vibration. Wheel weights arn't cheap and once the tires heat up they balance themselves


I'm interested in this...how do they balance themselves?....I'm not making fun...I seriously want to know.

[Sandro]

I agree with Phil about the coats 20-20, (obviously he knows way more than me about tire changing) when I was looking at getting a machine I came across that and figured it wouldn't be the best bet for track wheels, since the wheels are usually soft and the tires are really stiff. I was going to go for a full size machine but didn't have the space, I ended up going with a manual machine instead.

[Sandro]

Does current owner of the coats 20-20 change race tires or just normal street tires?

Maybe you could take one of yours to him and watch him change it. If he has trouble then you most definitely will since he has more experience. Just a thought.

[gran racing]

That's a good idea. The challenge will be that the machine shop has been out of business for a little while now and there's no power inside.

I'll have to look into all of this further. Thanks!!

[Lael Cleland]

Back when BFG R-1s were around....like 96ish, It took 2 guys (1 being me) to mount those with a 20-20... Rim clamp machines rule!!!!!!

I wasn't aware of the phase out of led weights, Thanks!

[gran racing]

That good, huh? So maybe it's not worth buying afterall?

[MMiskoe]

Uhm, I'm glad to see others are questioning the 20-20. I had a 10-10 that was given to me. It would not do race tires, regardless of how much I didn't care that the rims got scratched. Worked fine on soft sided tires on a steel rims (sold it to a guy who did off road stuff, he loved it). And now that Phil describes the potential problems I had a friend who had a wheel broken via a center post machine.

The 10-10 had a center post that turned and a bar that had a slot in the center that was turned by the center post to pull the tire up over the rim. I nearly sent my self to the hospital with it by hooking the bar under the tire & over the post, let go of it then stepped on the pedal. When the post turned the bar un-hooked and like a lever, flipped over and smashed me in the head. Drew blood and I saw stars & fell down & everything. Lucky it wasn't in the face or mouth.

[JLawton]

[QUOTE=MMiskoe;306097], flipped over and smashed me in the head. QUOTE]


Hmmmmmm, that does explain a lot............





:p

[ner88]

Dave, you don't want a 20/20, do yourself a favor.
You'll be paying money to scrap it!
See you at the track!

[Kai Noeske]

Dave, don't.

I don't know how many here have seen the garage injury thread over at rrax, but that machine sounds like it is eating wheels AND has already planned a hit job on me... :blink:

[nlevine]

Uhm, I'm glad to see others are questioning the 20-20. I had a 10-10 that was given to me. It would not do race tires, regardless of how much I didn't care that the rims got scratched. Worked fine on soft sided tires on a steel rims.

I used a 20-20 when I worked in a shop in the early 80's. As others have said, it was fine on soft tires (70+-series tires were the standard then, not today's 45 - 60-series). I remember our first "low-profile" customer - a Z-car with 60-series tires (pretty cutting-edge for 1984). Could barely get those tires on the rims with the 20-20..

[ScotMac]

I got the hose connector from Greg Smith Equipment, and my tire changer appears to be working well. Can't blame GSE for the problem, since my air PSI was high.

From my research, i don't think you can beat the their $1845 for a brand new modern rim clamp tire changer and dynamic, computerized wheel balancer combo:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-WB11-Atlas-TC221-p/wb11-attc221.htm

[bonespec]

I got the hose connector from Greg Smith Equipment, and my tire changer appears to be working well. Can't blame GSE for the problem, since my air PSI was high.

From my research, i don't think you can beat the their $1845 for a brand new modern rim clamp tire changer and dynamic, computerized wheel balancer combo:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-WB11-Atlas-TC221-p/wb11-attc221.htm

Local shop has a setup very similar to this. I haven't been cussed out like he did me in a long time.

Taking of 215/50/13 BFG R1'a from 1997 and mounting 225/45/13 A6's was a work out. The bead breaker had a hard time with the old R1's....stiff inner sidewall and all.

[ScotMac]

So far i've tried it on some 245/40/18 hankooks and some 225/50/14 z214 hankooks, and it had no problem w/ them. So, for my experience, it only works on hankooks! ;)

Oh, and their service response was great. They got the manufacturer of the air connector to send one (they actually sent 2), and the support tech got one off of a floor model and sent it, along w/ the entire center yoke of the tire changer! The one off of the floor models appears to be off of a much more expensive model.

[Mike Mackaman]

I have used one of the $45 HF manual tire changers for years. What a PITA! Works great on street tires, but the stiff side walls and tighter tolerances of race tires are a bear! Finally broke the end off trying to take R6's off some Revolutions. There is a local Bubba shop that charges $10 per tire to break the old one down, mount the new one and spin balance. I have seen some good deals from shops closing down, but not good enough to lose the floor space yet.

I looked at a Coats 20-20, but the fear of damaging rims and the fact that it weighs like 600 lbs kept me from getting it. It was on Ebay and I thought I could get it for about $250 and it was near where a car I was selling was going. Otherwise delivery can be a real savings killer.

Mike

Oh by the way, I know it seems like the at track guys are high priced, but remember, they hauled that equipment all the way to the track, are running it, gas, wear, etc. and may have guys there on the clock with them. If you add up what it costs, and then divy it up on the number of tires they will likely do, they are not making a lot of money.

M

[raffaelli]

Saw this on Craigslist.

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/tls/1738930434.html

[Gary L]

FWIW, I believe the Craig's List machine should be "All Tool" brand, not "All Tire". These appear to be a re-branded Coats 50-XX, with which I have some familiarity. I bought a used 50-30 in decent shape last year for less than a thou, and I have had no big problems mounting or demounting Hoosiers (205/50, 225/45) on my 15x6 wheels with this machine.

[philstireservice]

I have used one of the $45 HF manual tire changers for years. What a PITA! Works great on street tires, but the stiff side walls and tighter tolerances of race tires are a bear! Finally broke the end off trying to take R6's off some Revolutions. There is a local Bubba shop that charges $10 per tire to break the old one down, mount the new one and spin balance. I have seen some good deals from shops closing down, but not good enough to lose the floor space yet.

I looked at a Coats 20-20, but the fear of damaging rims and the fact that it weighs like 600 lbs kept me from getting it. It was on Ebay and I thought I could get it for about $250 and it was near where a car I was selling was going. Otherwise delivery can be a real savings killer.

Mike

Oh by the way, I know it seems like the at track guys are high priced, but remember, they hauled that equipment all the way to the track, are running it, gas, wear, etc. and may have guys there on the clock with them. If you add up what it costs, and then divy it up on the number of tires they will likely do, they are not making a lot of money.

M

Thank you....we travel w/ $100,000 of equipment to every race we attend....not including tire inventory.

[JLawton]

we travel w/ $100,000 of equipment to every race .

Hey, Kim doesn't count!!

:)


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