TeamDI.com Pro IT Race - Lime Rock - May 15

[dtanthon]

Entry will be up real soon. Enter early so you don't get put on the wait list. I'll have the NHMS checks there.

2010 points are posted on www.NJRRS.com (http://www.NJRRS.com) under
http://www.njrrs.com/proit/10/2010_Pro-IT.pdf

The www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com) is being redesigned so get your information together, you will be responsible for the content about your team. Matt is redesigning the site.

Does anyone want to write a quick story about NHMS (besides Ben).

[Andy Bettencourt]

In for LRP.

[tdw6974]

always ready for a story

[benspeed]

Man - I have a sorry story to write on NHMS - I'll pen something that expounds on compliance with RULES! No hard feelings though.

Count me in at LRP - I plan on running up front - and then not losing in tech
:-(

I now have my plastic grill - $10 on eBay. Come by - my hood is open

Seriously - this is the race to come and throw down! I hope we have 50 entries!

[dtanthon]

We are limited to 42 cars at LRP, be nice to have a full field.

For the want of a $10 part.....

:) Appreciate your story, this will be going out on the press release so be nice. :)

[THawkbh]

is NESCCA going to open the registration soon? I just want to run the regional but I don't want to get locked out by pro-it and national entrants looking for practice time.

[gran racing]

National entry isn't open yet either.

[Greg Amy]

I just want to run the regional but I don't want to get locked out by pro-it and national entrants looking for practice time.
I wouldn't worry about that at all. First, our entries have been historically down the last couple years, so the organizers will jump through hoops to ensure you get on the track (even if it means moving classes around).

Second, it's rare that Pro-IT competitors also enter the Regional (a bone of contention for the organizers).

Third, if you have a National license, you can also enter your IT car in STU.

GA

[dtanthon]

Open -
10-E-1066-S
Joe DeLuca AND Linda Gronlund Pro IT Round 2
5/15/2010

[gran racing]

Ouch! $450 for a national race. :(

[Andy Bettencourt]

Any entry received after 7-28-09 is late. :)

Looking at the supps, don't be fooled by the Regional and Pro IT being back to back run groups. The organizers did a good job splitting it up so that there is ample time between the two.

[ner88]

Ouch! $450 for a national race. :(

Track rent $27,295. per day, plus/plus Ouch!

[ner88]

AND, if it rains and no one shows up, it's still $27,295. per day!

[gran racing]

Jerry, I get all of that and am fully aware that it's not the region's fault but it still doesn't make writing a check for $450 + worker donation any easier. That'll be the highest entry fee I think I've ever paid including double and triple race weekends - and it's for one race. If it weren't for the fact that people will be entering to qualify for the Runoffs, I have to imagine entries would be pretty low.

[mazdagt3]

ah... i see the almighty flatout miata will be making an appearance! :023: good. at least there will be company up front.... the weak sauce that crazy joe brought to the ARRC made it quite boring down there.:D


rumor has it that joe might actually check stuff on the nissan before heading to lime rock.....we shall see..........


oh and Ben.... looks like you'll have to wait till the next pro IT round for our secret weapon to make its ITR debut!

[robits325is]

Wow 42 already!!

[mazdagt3]

Wow 42 already!!

yea, more than all of the national entries combined!!!!:026:

i think they should combine more of the national groups and give us even more qual. time. we're bringing more cars just for one group the way it stands now!

[THawkbh]

I wouldn't worry about that at all. First, our entries have been historically down the last couple years, so the organizers will jump through hoops to ensure you get on the track (even if it means moving classes around).

Second, it's rare that Pro-IT competitors also enter the Regional (a bone of contention for the organizers).

Third, if you have a National license, you can also enter your IT car in STU.

GA

I don't. This is going to be my last race for my regional license. It's also my first race in my new car. I really don't want to miss this weekend.

[Andy Bettencourt]

So the event is here. The event that I hope the organizers have a plan in place to make sure the IT guys get a crack before National guys double dipping. After all, SM and SSM were included to suppliment the IT entries in the original concept.

Maybe we should change it to the Pro Spec Miata Series and us IT guys get to fill in. LOL. Maybe someone from the NJRB can weigh in with the plan/policy.

[Greg Amy]

Maybe we should change it to the Pro Spec Miata Series and us IT guys get to fill in. LOL.
Andy! Cut it out with the Miata-hating/bashing...!!!!


:happy204:

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy! Cut it out with the Miata-hating/bashing...!!!!


:happy204:

Except I am serious! The organizers have to follow the money, right? We have 5 IT classes and they bring more cars? Embarrassing.

[dominojd]

So the event is here. The event that I hope the organizers have a plan in place to make sure the IT guys get a crack before National guys double dipping. After all, SM and SSM were included to suppliment the IT entries in the original concept.

Maybe we should change it to the Pro Spec Miata Series and us IT guys get to fill in. LOL. Maybe someone from the NJRB can weigh in with the plan/policy.


OMG!!! I sorta agree with Andy. The end must be near. Good thing Cefalo called me and told me reg was open. I would have been really pissed. SM cars and National double dippers 20 cars. what were all the IT guys waiting till last minute? Please tell me we are gonna have a split start.

[Greg Amy]

Except I am serious! The organizers have to follow the money, right? We have 5 IT classes and they bring more cars? Embarrassing.
I just think it's funny as hell: you're finally starting to see the trend that the rest of us have been pointing out for the last several years...;) We were laughing at the NHMS National that Jerry Rigoli in his '01 SSB Miata could have run five groups that weekend.

On the one hand, Miatas are finally getting to the point where they can prove to the world that they are the saviors of Club Racing; after all, take away Pro-IT, the "all Miata" group, and STU, and how many entries would there be for the LRP National? Twelve? How much would each entry have to cost to make it financially "even"? A ridiculous amount, I'd suggest.

On the other hand, it's getting to the point that Miatae are quickly becoming a barrier to entry for other classes. People like Tim above are having to scramble simply in order to get entry into the events! When you add in low-cost groups to get the entries up, well, you're gonna get the entries up; since Miatae are probably the most profligate make/model in Club Racing today, they're going to fill those low-cost fields pretty quickly.

It's a double-edged sword, good for the region(s), bad for Non-Miatae competitors. But, in the end, as long as the supply of M1s doesn't run out and we're all able to compete, is it so bad that we all get "assimilated"? :shrug:

[Andy Bettencourt]

I don't have any idea what you are talking about. I can see and have seen everything you see. The difference is that I don't (and never did) see it as a bad thing. You guys are the ones who are coming around from 'damn Miata's' to 'wow, without them we have no event'. My only dissappointment is that we don't have MORE IT participation in a series that was designed for them.

I think YOU are finally coming to grips with the fact that the Miata's are the savior they HAVE BEEN for the past 2-3 years. Right? This event just happens to be obvious.

Miata's aren't the barrier to entry, the rules are. I have said this over and over, from the very FIRST Pro IT race at a National, the organizers needed to have a plan in place for when National SM drivers used that race for extra track time and limit entries for the types of cars that the series was intended for.

Suggestions:

1. First come first served for ITx, SM and SSM.
2. Wait-list any SM that is also registered for the National (of which there are 8 right now) and fill them in on a first come basis if IT can't pull it's weight

If you want to go full-on first-come first-served...change the name! :) Maybe the Series has morphed given who actually enters and I have ZERO problems with that. The Pro IT website doesn't really tell what the series is all about, just who is eligible so this may all be moot! :D

[gran racing]

i think they should combine more of the national groups and give us even more qual. time. we're bringing more cars just for one group the way it stands now!

As long the national entry fee were reduced and regional fee increased, have at it! Cause that one 22.5 minute qualifying session on Friday is so appealing to me. LOL If the same people race SSC in the national and regional event (a whooping 0 thus far), I'd rather do the regional all things considered.

Interesting dilemma with all of the Miata cars mixed in the "IT group".

[benspeed]

Tell you what - I'm looking forward to seeing a nice battle with some top ITA cars - Greg, you got to get something to drive and keep yer buttt oughta tech :-)

Rob T and Rob N - way to get the cars put back together - Autotechnic needs to thank you by providing trackside catering and message services.

Marc - keen to see what you got for ITR? Who's car? I'm guessing another S2000...

Is there a IT legal Miata catcher I can weld on ?

[Doc Bro]

Is there a IT legal Miata catcher I can weld on ?

Thant's hilarious!!
R

[Jeremy Billiel]

OMG!!! I sorta agree with Andy. The end must be near. Good thing Cefalo called me and told me reg was open. I would have been really pissed. SM cars and National double dippers 20 cars. what were all the IT guys waiting till last minute? Please tell me we are gonna have a split start.

HOLY CRAP!!! Joe is alive!?

[ulfelder]

Marc - keen to see what you got for ITR? Who's car? I'm guessing another S2000...



Speaking of which ... I registered for ITS as a place-holder, but if all goes well, we'll unveil my S2000 at this race. Fingers crossed.

Steve

[benspeed]

Go Steve U! Hope you can unveil that badass race car.

[ulfelder]

A few shots to wet your whistle. Nick and I had a pow-wow today to discuss the last little bits that need to be ordered, etc.:happy204:

[RHallRacing]

We're just finishing up our ITB Golf build and should be ready for the Test/Tune at LRP on the 11th. Once my buddy gets back and gives me the transponder number, I'll be registering for the Pro-IT race on Monday. Hoping to do the rest of the season

[mossaidis]

(I AM NOT A OFFICIAL though from what I can read and see...)

Both the restricted regional and Pro-IT races are full based on the online reg system. You will want to reg for waitlisted status...

[dtanthon]

The entry is 42, this is the limit for LRP with the 10% waiver (38 + 4).
You will be added to the wait list.

[THawkbh]

how come theres no ITS in the regional?

[mossaidis]

The regional was advertised as a $210 SM challenge, not as a "restricted regional" (read between the lines...) and reg list is proof of that - 27 out of the 38 cars are SM/SSM. I would love to add one more ITA entry but that's not possible...

[73itb]

Just curious, how many IT guys are on the wait list for the regional? I know I am.

[jimalley]

Well I am locked out and really disappointed as this will be my first chance to get out this year. Excuse me if this is a stupid question but what do I have to change on my ITA prepared Miata to run STU? Would this be possible?

[THawkbh]

The regional was advertised as a $210 SM challenge, not as a "restricted regional" (read between the lines...) and reg list is proof of that - 27 out of the 38 cars are SM/SSM. I would love to add one more ITA entry but that's not possible...

ah i had read it as a restricted regional. I was all excited to run this race. bummer.

[Greg Amy]

...what do I have to change on my ITA prepared Miata to run STU?
The three class letters on the side of the car. Oh, and a larger check.

[mossaidis]

^^ yup, the same price as FD or two tires...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Register anyway. Maybe they will open up those 8 spots that are double dippers. I registered for the 3 events but will probably only do 2. Since Ben Phillips will be holding me up in the Pro IT race :) I may do the National and the restricted regional. I want some clear track to show Cefalo my tail lights. :)

[StephenB]

(I AM NOT A OFFICIAL though from what I can read and see...)

Both the restricted regional and Pro-IT races are full based on the online reg system. You will want to reg for waitlisted status...

Last year online we chated about a waiting list but at the track they followed the Pro-it series rules which describe a qualification procedure. Just because your currently "in" does not actually imply you really are... you will most likely have to qualify to race like we did last year.

Stephen

[benspeed]

I bet if some of the national drivers knew they were putting some Pro IT guys out of a race they might bow out....sorta a hint to make a few emails to these guys and gals... I know Eric King and Greg Simpson are also out of the race right now....

I can't wait to see if Andy could qualify on Pole for the Pro IT - but the joy of smoking him a country mile on the start might not be mine...c'mon Andy - you gotta run Pro IT bro - that's where it's at. But the real race is you and Marc C! Greg - you just gotta run these ITA guys. Where is Tom in the CRX? He was fast in the past...

Now you put Andy, Marc, Nick, Gregorian, Payson, Joe, Greg all in ITA Miatas - that'll sell some tickets at the gate :-) Shit - I'd have to buy a Miata to get in that race....or disguise the Boxster

Everybody in grid should be telling each other to pay the frig attention in this race - eyes up and think about how many laps you've made this year so far before you go into turn 1 in fifth...

[dominojd]

ere is Tom in the CRX? He was fast in the past...

Now you put Andy, Marc, Nick, Gregorian, Payson, Joe, Greg all in ITA Miatas - that'll sell some tickets at the gate :-)

.

Ben you write the check and I'm in. :D

[ulfelder]

Everybody in grid should be telling each other to pay the frig attention in this race - eyes up and think about how many laps you've made this year so far before you go into turn 1 in fifth...

Advice from Ben Phillips on taking it easy on a start? Now I've seen everything ... :D

[JLawton]

Advice from Ben Phillips on taking it easy on a start? Now I've seen everything ... :D


:lol: Yup, I remember back a few years when Ben's idea of a clean pass was making it by without wrecking the other guy!!

[RHallRacing]

So top 42 in qualifying get in? Thats going to be a fun weekend

[Andy Bettencourt]

Marc and I will be racing in the restricted regional for sure!

[vwzx7]

you gotta run Pro IT bro - that's where it's at. But the real race is you and Marc C! Greg - you just gotta run these ITA guys. Where is Tom in the CRX? He was fast in the past...

Now you put Andy, Marc, Nick, Gregorian, Payson, Joe, Greg all in ITA Miatas - that'll sell some tickets at the gate :-)


Don't forget Hawthorne in the CRX....

[dtanthon]

As of today we have 42 entered with a waitlist. We will have 42 cars take to the track for qualifying. We will have a 15 minute qualifying session (if things are clean we may get more time) before lunch.

We will have the last race of Saturday that will be 45 minutes or till 5:55 race.

We will hand out NHMS prize checks, NHMS ITR trophies and LRP trophies after the event at the winners stand.

We will publish the waitlist process in the coming days. If you entered the Pro IT and know you will NOT be driving please withdraw so someone on the waitlist can get in.

Going to be a great race! Wish I could join in the fun as well.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Out for the National. In for the Regional and Pro IT. I guess it's simply first come, first served. It's a 'Pro race'. Maybe make us qualify to get in.

The math is tough but you take the pole-sitters in each of the 7 classes and you fill the field with the 35 closest cars to the pole in their respective class. Give the guys who don't make it half their money back...

[benspeed]

Banzai Ben is ready for LRP - lemme tell ya - winning and then getting moved to last has put the psycho back in me again...

Coming up early Friday - getting my new tires and handing out free beer to my competitors whilst drinking club soda...free tequila shooters for any ITR drivers.

[gran racing]

Maybe make us qualify to get in.

It's still Club Racing even with the "Pro" name. People make financial and time sacrifices to attend these races and they should know going into if if they'll be racing or not. It should be first come first served.

[dj10]

As a outsider, I like AB's idea best.

[gran racing]

If you were driving 5 or 6 hours to the event and were a mid to back of the pack driver, would you then still? Just like I wouldn't want the ARRC to be that way or any other SCCA Club event.

[robits325is]

If the National is light on competitors is there any chance they would combine a few groups and make room for a second Pro-IT group?

[Terry Hanushek]

As of today we have 42 entered with a waitlist. We will have 42 cars take to the track for qualifying. We will have a 15 minute qualifying session (if things are clean we may get more time) before lunch.

......

We will publish the waitlist process in the coming days. If you entered the Pro IT and know you will NOT be driving please withdraw so someone on the waitlist can get in.

To expand on Darrell's comments: The NEDiv Executive Steward has granted TeamDI Pro IT a waiver of GCR 6.4.1.B to allow us to start 42 cars based on the positive experiences in our first two seasons. All accepted entries will be able to race. The Qualifying session is only for starting positions.

Because we have a waitlist for this event, I will second Darrell's request that accepted entries who know they will not race notify the Registrar that you are withdrawing as soon as possible so that we can add the next competitor from the waitlist.

See ya at Lime Rock

Terry

[Andy Bettencourt]

If the National is light on competitors is there any chance they would combine a few groups and make room for a second Pro-IT group?

Quoted so it doesn't get lost. Combine groups that are undersubscribed and make room for more $$$$$$$ !!!!! Cash in on the people who are actually willing to give you some money!!!!!

Suggestion:
Group 2: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#2) FV, F500, FF right now.....FOUR cars.
Group 4: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#4) FA, FC, FE, FM, FB, CSR, DSR, S2000.....SIX cars.

69 cars registered. 22 of them SM's.

Why not have 2 Pro IT groups? LOL. Poor organizers. Between a (Lime) rock and a hardplace.

:024:

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's still Club Racing even with the "Pro" name.

Why? A series is whatever you want it to be, no?

[lateapex911]

Suggestion:
Group 2: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#2) FV, F500, FF right now.....FOUR cars.
Group 4: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#4) FA, FC, FE, FM, FB, CSR, DSR, S2000.....SIX cars.


:024:

ELEVEN classes, TEN cars, TWO groups! Why, do ANY of them have to do more than take the green to get the trophy? Sheesh.

In before the "Formula Atlantic cars CAN NOT share the track with a Formula Vee, the closing rates are deadly...".....ummm, really, it looks like there will only be one car nearly every fifth of a mile...passing can't be THAT hard, especially considering that it looks like there's no reason to actually race....(assuming all 4 or 6 cars aren't in the same class.)

[lateapex911]

Banzai Ben is ready for LRP - lemme tell ya - winning and then getting moved to last has put the psycho back in me again...

Coming up early Friday - getting my new tires and handing out free beer to my competitors whilst drinking club soda...free tequila shooters for any ITR drivers.

Ben ya might want to extend that offer to the ITA boys....you don't want to be getting in the way of their race, right?? ;)

[Andy Bettencourt]

ELEVEN classes, TEN cars, TWO groups! Why, do ANY of them have to do more than take the green to get the trophy? Sheesh.

In before the "Formula Atlantic cars CAN NOT share the track with a Formula Vee, the closing rates are deadly...".....ummm, really, it looks like there will only be one car nearly every fifth of a mile...passing can't be THAT hard, especially considering that it looks like there's no reason to actually race....(assuming all 4 or 6 cars aren't in the same class.)

And you know what? I symapthise with the concept. But at some point you really need to help the Regions out by allowing them to make some money. Two groups of Pro IT would allow them probably 50+ cars. Give the open wheelers 3 extra laps to compensate for the FA guys lapping the FV guys.......but 10 cars for 2 groups should be fine.

[ner88]

just a thought but.......Pro IT only gives the region half the entry money, the rest goes to awards.
So, every National entry equals 2 proIT
The region needs a hell of a lot of $200. entries to pay for LRP.:dead_horse:
Sorry, just the facts!

[Andy Bettencourt]

just a thought but.......Pro IT only gives the region half the entry money, the rest goes to awards.
So, every National entry equals 2 proIT
The region needs a hell of a lot of $200. entries to pay for LRP.:dead_horse:
Sorry, just the facts!

Good point Jerry but you aren't excluding any National entries. If you combine 2 rediculously undersubscribed groups, you can ADD money to the bottom line.

[dominojd]

just a thought but.......Pro IT only gives the region half the entry money, the rest goes to awards.
So, every National entry equals 2 proIT
The region needs a hell of a lot of $200. entries to pay for LRP.:dead_horse:
Sorry, just the facts!

Also you pull Pro-IT out and the region looses REALLY BIG at LRP. Just sayin. :shrug:

[ner88]

they need each other to survive, just sayin:shrug:

[Andy Bettencourt]

So much mumbo-jumbo. Jerry, is it a viable idea to combine those two groups to allow for 2 Pro IT groups and more entries?

I really don't see why not. 4 FV guys get upset so you can add $2K in revenue?

[ner88]

First off, this is not my event so I have no say.
That being said, I'm sure there is some rule(not a GCR expert either) about compining these classes.
Think about being in an ITB car racing with GT1 cars:(

[lateapex911]

First off, this is not my event so I have no say.
That being said, I'm sure there is some rule(not a GCR expert either) about compining these classes.
Think about being in an ITB car racing with GT1 cars:(

I've shared Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, and other tracks with GT1 cars in my car powered by the all conquering weed eater motor. Lime Rock too, but closing speeds are MUCH greater at the other tracks. Gotta stay awake. Which isn't really asking much. And honestly, if there are 10 cars on the whole track, it's easy peasy. Oh, and further, I'm not racing them either... heck, statistically speaking, in this case, even IF there is another car in my class, odds are WE'RE not racing either.

Just playing devils advocate...

[gran racing]

I have to say that I'm quite surprised with the national entries, or lack there of. Right now I'm thinking that I should have entered in ITS. Is this unique to National events? Is it JUST about the runoffs and qualifying for that event?

[StephenB]

IRB with GT1...Been there and done that... not that bad since they are gone and out of the way. Less cars will be on track than in a hardship session or even a test day.

Stephen

[Andy Bettencourt]

First off, this is not my event so I have no say.
That being said, I'm sure there is some rule(not a GCR expert either) about compining these classes.
Think about being in an ITB car racing with GT1 cars:(

When there are only 4 GT1 cars on the track and 6 ITB cars? Pllllease. Just make sure the race is lengthened enough so that the ITB cars get about the same amount of laps they would have. Provide the same 'value' albiet in a more intense environment. But when you only bring 4 cars to a dance with 42 empty seats, you get less picky who you go home with.

[Greg Amy]

I think you guys may be missing a key point: this is a National weekend, with an invite to the Restricted Regional cars to be grid (entry)-fillers. As such, Regional drivers - despite their higher numbers - suck hind tit in priority.

:shrug:

We may not like it, but it would be no different should there be a restricted Regional be added to a regular Regional weekend for a bunch of, say, Spec Racers to have a convention and they bring in more cars. The fact that the Regional racers are kickin' ass in entries overall should have no effect on the weekend's priorities (e.g., "we're Spec Miata drivers and we bring in more entries, therefore we should have priority over those ITC cars").

I'd suggest that "we" stand down on the "holier than thou" attitudes...just sayin'...

[Andy Bettencourt]

I think you guys may be missing a key point: this is a National weekend, with an invite to the Restricted Regional cars to be grid (entry)-fillers. As such, Regional drivers - despite their higher numbers - suck hind tit in priority.

:shrug:

We may not like it, but it would be no different should there be a restricted Regional be added to a regular Regional weekend for a bunch of, say, Spec Racers to have a convention and they bring in more cars. The fact that the Regional racers are kickin' ass in entries overall should have no effect on the weekend's priorities (e.g., "we're Spec Miata drivers and we bring in more entries, therefore we should have priority over those ITC cars").

I'd suggest that "we" stand down on the "holier than thou" attitudes...just sayin'...

I am going to disagree Greg. At the end of the day, the Region needs to make money. All *I* am suggestion is combining two rediculously undersubscribed groups in order to make room for another group that is overfull. What WE may be missing is that plenty of Regions across the US hold National/Regionals during the same weekend in order to fill up the track. I don't see this as different...and we aren't devaluing their entry.

If there was a 'regular' regional and an 'invited' convention of XYZ cars and they were bursting at the seams and could occupy two groups - and all it took to make that happen was to move a 4-car group into a 6-car group, I would EXPECT that to happen.

At some point you have to look the 4 drivers in the eye and tell them that they simply can't have 60 minutes of track time to themselves because the occupation of an entire run group is holding probably 10-15 other entries at bay.

I hear what you are saying but don't think a 4 car group has any more 'rights' than anyone else. Everyone was 'invited'. Says so on the supps. And it's not a ""holier than thou" attitude, it's simple math.

Maybe National entries are so weak now at some tracks we need to switch to the National/Restricted Regional as the norm - like other regions.

Maybe this is a hard line I am taking but I am going to be ill if I see 4 FV's take the track in their own run group when I know they had to turn away entries in other groups.

(continued thoughts) I can see how there might be angst if we moved an 'invited' group into the 'home' group to fill up said home group but this isn't the case.

[gran racing]

tell them that they simply can't have 60 minutes of track time to themselves

YAWN! Who would want to be in a race with so few cars out on track anyways? Not me.

I was giving the Pro and qualifying to be in the race more thought Andy. You're right about it IF it were extremely clear and visable (more than just stuck a few pages into the supps even though it all should be read throughly), that wouldn't be such a bad thing. I can still see that having a negative impact though. People who are unsure if they could qualify that may choose not to attend. Or if they do, some customers would be guaranteed to be turned away. Either way it's not ideal IMO.

[benspeed]

If this was run like a business the organizers wouldn't need to be asked - they would have already made the adjustments to capture more entries.

The closing speed argument is really diminished when there's hardly any cars on the track. AND these guys share the track during warmups in the AM already.....

No doubt this event will spark some lively debate in the future. If run groups of 4 and 6 cars are allowed to run independantly while entries are being turned away, we won't be having many races in the future because the club will be broke....

[Greg Amy]

I am going to disagree Greg.
What you are arguing is a cultural, strategic, long-term solution. What you want is a short-term change two weeks from now. The former is admirable, the latter is unreasonable.

I agree with your long-term outlook; I came from a division that used to run Regional/National combo weekends quite well. But what I'm hearing, Helen, is "hear me roar in numbers too big to ignore"; problem is, the breast-beating will resolve nothing over the next two weeks.

"Shut up and go racing" in two weeks, and reserve all that energy for the long-term changes that we pretty much all agree we need.

GA

[Doc Bro]

[QUOTE=benspeed;305231

The closing speed argument is really diminished when there's hardly any cars on the track. AND these guys share the track during warmups in the AM already.....

QUOTE]


Exactly, and more importantly....do we all do test days? Test days are ALWAYS a mixed bag, and although it isn't a "race" or a "qualify"....most guys can't distinguish that in their own mind. Furthermore test days have MINIMAL corner support, and seem to go OK. Just my thoughts....

R

[benspeed]

I think Andy and Greg need to settle up on the track!

WE SHOULD TAKE A VOTE!!! Who says that wouldn't be a great race - I will volunteer Crazy Joe or Marc Cefalo's ITA cars for Greg to run - now that's a great idea RIGHT???

Greg - where's the Egg when you need it most???? Winning STU is just like kissing but not the best of the rest, eh? You need to throw down.

PS - I will run the book for the 'off track bets' - I'm from Jersey, ehhhh?

[Andy Bettencourt]

But what I'm hearing, Helen, is "hear me roar in numbers too big to ignore"; problem is, the breast-beating will resolve nothing over the next two weeks.


GA

Then I am not presenting it well enough. It's not about ME or YOU, or anyone on the entry list already because we are in. It's about a Region realizing that they have paying customers at the door - and with a simple and reasonable decision, they could accomodate more racers and realize more revenue with such very little pain.

To Ben's point: Organizers have been struggling with reveue at Lime Rock for years now. An additional pool of revenue is there for the taking, I hope they take it. Sometimes you need an obvious situation like this to kickstart long-term strategic thinking (like maybe more condensed National Run Groups with a restricted regional).

(edit) OK, we can stop talking about this issue now. Both groups are up to 7 each. LOL

[kevin22]

its almost a joke, Are the people who run this qualified? Almost a catch 22. the less entries we get the more we have to raise the fee, and in return we get less entries.

I am thinking it should be all regional weekends with a few "restricted National" classes.

Who cares who wins the runoffs in the majority of the classes, there no competition.

[Andy Bettencourt]

its almost a joke, Are the people who run this qualified?

They are Kev. AND they try really hard. But what I will agree with Greg on is that this change, however simple it may seem to us, goes against history and what people 'expect'.

Nothing a well spoken Drivers Meeting can't fix however. :)

[Jeremy Billiel]

They are Kev. AND they try really hard. But what I will agree with Greg on is that this change, however simple it may seem to us, goes against history and what people 'expect'.

Nothing a well spoken Drivers Meeting can't fix however. :)

Qualified? Well that is a loose term....

Here is what I would say. They are volunteers who try very hard, have various backgrounds and are not neccessarily people who know how to run companies. The decisions they make would not be the same if it were their money on the line.

I will leave it at that.

[benspeed]

I can't wait to watch the STU race - if I didn't need tires I'd be entered in that one too.

WHO WILL WIN? Some pretty stout competitors there. Gorarian, Bettencourt, Amy - no Phil Parlato registered so it's wide open folks!!!

[Greg Amy]

Won't be me. I'm just out there to get a finish and develop/tune a new car. We'll probably use the 45-minute race as a tuning session, come in for tire temps and stuff like that.

I have two goals this year: replace my buddy's Integra that I destroyed two years ago, and simply qualify for the Runoffs so I can run Road America before I die. Everything after that is just pissing away good money. If it wasn't a National race I wouldn't even be there.

The **LAST** thing I want to do is get all tangled up with more Miatas. - GA

[ner88]

The again, Jeremy, most people that run companies aren't qualified!:shrug:

[gran racing]

LOL!! So true.

[lateapex911]

I feel for the organizers, they have to piss off somebody...it's impossible to make everybody happy. And the exorbitant fees Lime Rock is charging makes the job even harder.

Bottom line though, is the bottom line. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I feel for the organizers, they have to piss off somebody...it's impossible to make everybody happy. And the exorbitant fees Lime Rock is charging makes the job even harder.

Bottom line though, is the bottom line. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

And again, it's not really about the guys on the waiting list for me. It's about the host region having an opportunity to garner the revenue they have been begging for for the last half-decade at LRP...for the cost of combining 2 woefully undersubscibed groups.

[ner88]

Maybe I should start another thread?
Looking into the future, what do you all think will make for the best event at LRP?
Regional, Friday qual and Saturday Races?
Friday test and tune, Saturday qual and races?
Friday am T&T, pm Qual, Saturday Races
Add Pro IT to a regional, how and not screw non Pro IT racers?
National, are required to have (2) twenty min. quals and 45 min. races
What about a double National, three days over a holiday weekend(Fri., Sat and Mon.)

[kevin22]

I believe it should be a double, Friday qual-race and the Sat Qual-Race. We should be able to sign up for a choice of both days or just one. Many people can not race on Friday, work, kids, etc. That why some poeple can still come for Saturday only.

In the past LRP has never been a good deal and is only getting worse. Very little track time for alot of money. reverse the trend..

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in Jerry. Double qual on Friday (morning and afternoon) and double race on Saturday.

Kev - no racing on Fridays at LRP.

[gran racing]

What Andy said or a quick qual on Sat then races.

[Andy Bettencourt]

What Andy said or a quick qual on Sat then races.

Can we do a 'qualifying race'? If we can, then structure it just like the NER Triples.

[ner88]

Two races on Saturday may be difficult because of the later start time at LRP.
We'll have to look at a timeline and see if it's doable.

Not sure about the qual. race on Friday, my gut feeling is no but it won't hurt to ask.

What about regular races on Staurday sandwiched between Pro IT qual and race?
Or Pro IT Qual on Friday and their race on Saturday.

[kevin22]

No racing on Friday, but we can qual.that makes no sense. cars are just as loud whether in Qual or race session. Can we crash on friday? or is that only allowed on Saturday.
LRP rules are such a hassle it should be cheaper to race there. Other then the Pancakes I would not miss LRP if the dates went to another track.... Monticello would be nice. the full 4 mile track is a real pleasure to race on.

[lateapex911]

No racing on Friday, but we can qual.that makes no sense. cars are just as loud whether in Qual or race session. Can we crash on friday? or is that only allowed on Saturday.
LRP rules are such a hassle it should be cheaper to race there. Other then the Pancakes I would not miss LRP if the dates went to another track.... Monticello would be nice. the full 4 mile track is a real pleasure to race on.

really? I thought it was a club track with no racing?

yes, the rules at LRP are nonsensical in some views. Late starts, early finishes, no "racing' on anything but Sat, and a short track. Not to mention the highest rates per mile of any track in the country, which is why NER is working so hard to have another track in the area with a degree of control.

[lateapex911]

Jerry, good of you to ask. Personally, I would rather race more often then for longer. So Andy's idea is my choice. Qualify Fri AM, Qualify race on Fri afternoon, then 2 races Sat. They don't have to be long. Spectators like the starts. ;)

[gran racing]

Make it a true restricted regional, and no Pro IT. Short qual., and relatively short races.

Another idea. NO typical qualifying session. Draw starting positions from a hat, and make it a qualifying race where total average lap time decides starting position for the afternoon race. Maybe start groups with each others respective classes. Meaning, all ITS cars would be put in front of all ITB cars. Similar with other groups.

[ner88]

The big issue with two sets of races is lost/down time between races.
Timing and Scoring, track clean up and grid need time, in most cases 3-5 minutes.
With 8 run groups that's about 30-35 minutes lost, now add lunch and a shorter day.
How long can the races be? 12+/- laps or 15 minutes?
Would racers be happy/satisfied?
What kind of effect does Friday qualifing have on guys who can't get the day off?
Will they still come? Would the first race be the qualifier for the second?

[gran racing]

I personally have a tough time justifying taking a Friday off for a 20 min qual session (ala this National event). Have been tempted to start a the back in a Sat race if given the okay.


The big issue with two sets of races is lost/down time between races.I think Jake mentioned this general idea already but checkered flag thrown, "cool down lap 1" happens as everyone finishes, pace car picks up leaders and begins start. Or do a black flag all, and get everyone going quickly after regrouped in pit lane. No change over needed.

With there still being quite a few events, regions should give a few unique events a go. Even if you did a longer race, do some different stuff. Sometime during the event, you must do a stop and go in pit lane.

Just ideas....

[Andy Bettencourt]

So lets give everyone enough track time Friday to justify a day off.

Morning qualifier and afternoon qualifier for 2 Sat races.

No checkered flag laps. Safety cars out on the cool down. No wasted time. Pace car out asap. 15 lap races. Combine classes as neccessary to get to 7 groups.

[ner88]

You need reset time, remember you have workers out there.
T&S needs the time, getting results done takes time.
Next time you're at the track go watch how it happens, you can't just start the next group without a break.
Not trying to be a smartass but, you can't just hit the reset button!
I'm off to the track, hope to see you at NHMS this weekend.

[dickita15]

No checkered flag laps. Safety cars out on the cool down. No wasted time. Pace car out asap. 15 lap races. Combine classes as neccessary to get to 7 groups.

That is absolutely possible if you have a large skilled team of workers unfortunately it is very hard is the worker crew is thin.

[RHallRacing]

Id be happy with practice and qualifying on Friday as i already have it off from work

[dtanthon]

Joe DeLuca and Linda Gronlund

In 2006 the Northern New Jersey Region created the Joe DeLuca and Linda Gronlund Freedom Races, this event celebrates the love that both Joe and Linda had for the SCCA and motorsports. Traditionally this event was held at Pocono International Raceway on our Mother's Day double event. Due to a conflict in the 2010 schedule the Pocono event was cancelled for 2010. The 2010 Joe DeLuca and Linda Gronlund Freedom Race event has been moved the TeamDI.com Pro IT round 2 at Lime Rock on May 15th at Lime Rock Park.

The Northern New Jersey Region lost two of our most active members in the tragic terrorist actions on September 11th. Linda Gronlund and Joseph DeLuca were traveling to San Francisco on United Airlines flight 93 when it was hijacked and subsequently crashed in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, killing all on board.

At that time, Linda was our region's Flag Marshal. She had joined the Sports Car Club of America in June of 1980 while living in Sag Harbor, New York. She quickly became active in SCCA activities at the Bridgehampton Road Race Circuit near her hometown and at other tracks all over the northeast. Linda earned a law degree and worked for several automotive companies over the years. She was on a business trip to the west coast for her employer, BMW North America, when she was killed. Linda and Joe planned to travel and sightsee in northern California after Linda's business purpose had been accomplished.

Joe DeLuca joined the SCCA in January of 1980. Joe was the NNJR Board Secretary. Previously, and at various times over the years, Joe had been a Trustee, Assistant Regional Executive, Regional Executive, and newsletter editor. Initially a rallyist, Joe later was also an active participant in Solo II and road racing. He enjoyed driving his Morgan and at that time was the president of the local Morgan club in New Jersey. Joe was the creator of "The Adventures of Raymond the Cat," a monthly cartoon feature in the Northern New Jersey Region's newsletter, "Pole Position." The cartoon is syndicated in many regional publications across the nation. Joe's cartooning was a spotlighted article in the July 2001 issue of SCCA's national publication, "SportsCar." Joe was on vacation from Pfizer Corporation where he was a systems analyst.

Active members in SCCA know what these two wonderful individuals knew: SCCA membership brings a friendship, a camaraderie, which borders on being family. The Northern New Jersey Region lost two very special members of our family. The entire SCCA organization feels this loss.

Come on out and celebrate your love of motorsports at this weekend or over the 2010 season or whenever you get the urge to have a great time.

[Andy Bettencourt]

12 and 16 cars in the open wheel classes now. No combining that many. Good for them.

[ulfelder]

Speaking of which ... I registered for ITS as a place-holder, but if all goes well, we'll unveil my S2000 at this race. Fingers crossed.

Steve

I'm out, gang. Not gonna make it. :( Somebody on the wait list just got lucky ...

Steve

[philstireservice]

LRP itself is part of the problem.....I know, everyone knows that.

I loved this comment the best....made me laugh very hard, and should be repeated often to the Limerock heirarchy and the Limerock residents who benefit from the tax money....


"No racing on Friday, but we can qual.that makes no sense. cars are just as loud whether in Qual or race session. Can we crash on friday? or is that only allowed on Saturday."

:happy204:

[benspeed]

Bummer Steve U - was keen to race ya bro. No ITS entry either???

[ulfelder]

Bummer Steve U - was keen to race ya bro. No ITS entry either???

Nah. New target for the S2K is June 4-6, test and double Regional at NHMS. That's really a better place to shake down a new car anyway (home track I can drive blindfolded, all-day test, shorter races, garage).

[benspeed]

Dang - I'll be at NJMP - I wanted to grind off that Flatout sticker into turn 1 :-)

[ulfelder]

Dang - I'll be at NJMP - I wanted to grind off that Flatout sticker into turn 1 :-)

You refer, of course, to the one on my rear bumper. :)

[robits325is]

Wow 26 on the waiting list. Must be tough leaving $5,000 on the table.

[jimalley]

Wow 26 on the waiting list. Must be tough leaving $5,000 on the table.

Where do I find the wait list?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Wow 26 on the waiting list. Must be tough leaving $5,000 on the table.

And there is at least 1 for the restricted regional.

[gran racing]

Put the various show room stock nat entries with the IT guys? :)

[lateapex911]

trying to weasel out of the SM group, eh Gran?
;)
Watsa matter, you worried about damage to somebody elses car from a pack of rabid Miatas? hee hee...

[Andy Bettencourt]

So with one week to go, here is what the groups look like:

26 cars Group 1: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#1) EP, FP, HP, GTL, STU
14 cars Group 2: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#2) FV, F500, FF
17 cars Group 3: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#3) AS, GT1, GT2, GT3, T1, ST, STO
19 cars Group 4: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#4) FA, FC, FE, FM, FB, CSR, DSR, S2000
48 cars Group 5: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#5) SSB, SSC, T2, T3, SM
12 cars Group 6: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#6) SRF


Total: 136


43 cars: Pro IT: ITR, ITS, ITA, IT7, SR7, ITB, ITC, SM, SSM
43 cars: Restricted Regional: SSM, SM, ITA, ITB, ITC, SSC, SSB, IT7


Congrats to the organizers for creating a format that can make money.

[gran racing]

trying to weasel out of the SM group, eh Gran?

Heck yeah. There are a few more SSC entries coming and that group is at 48 already. It honestly does make sense for SM to get their own run group and throw the others into group 1 or something.

[Greg Amy]

Congrats to the organizers for creating a format that allows so many Miata double-, triple-, and quadruple-entries...
;)

[ner88]

Dave
I made a request to move SS cars to group 3.
I don't want to have those Miatas mess up my race either ;)

[gran racing]

As far as racing goes, it's more a matter of us messing them up. Don't worry, one of the first things I thought of was I'll still have to deal with Jerry's Miata. :p

[Andy Bettencourt]

;)

Congrats to the organizers for creating a format that allows space for people willing to pay entry fees...

:D

[Greg Amy]

WHO WILL WIN? Some pretty stout competitors there. Gorarian, Bettencourt, Amy - no Phil Parlato registered so it's wide open folks!!!
Looks like Andy may get his wish:

http://gt-racecar.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4140

...and Parlato and Pignataro are now entered, leaving only ONE SPOT for some Honda cashola...

<evil grin>

[lateapex911]

As far as racing goes, it's more a matter of us messing them up. Don't worry, one of the first things I thought of was I'll still have to deal with Jerry's Miata. :p

Dave, you DO know that group 3 is:

Group 3: (http://www.nescca.com/registration/currentcount.asp?ID=165483892#3) AS, GT1, GT2, GT3, T1, ST, STO

and Group 1 is Prod, etc.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Looks like Andy may get his wish:

http://gt-racecar.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4140

...and Parlato and Pignataro are now entered, leaving only ONE SPOT for some Honda cashola...

<evil grin>

Ohhh boy I can't wait for the S2000...

[Greg Amy]

Ohhh boy I can't wait for the S2000...
And, week-in-advance forecast is....RAIN!!!

BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!

[benspeed]

And I am ready for said rain - full Hoosier rains and my Toyo Intermediates....:-)

[zchris]

Why not put the SS cars into the SRF race. That will put steal bodied cars in with those SRF tanks. At least the SS guys can take the pounding. Then SM gets there own race. Just do a split start with SS/SRF. It should be do-able. Just a thought Jerry :happy204:
Chris Howard

[ner88]

I've raced with the SRFs before, you can't even see them in a Miata.
At least GT1 cars are loud and big, you always know where they are!

[dtanthon]

Please log onto www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com) and enter your profile if you are racing this weekend. This will make entering the results easier to add to the database plus we won't have to make up stories about you. :)

See you at Lime Rock!

Edit - actually, enter you data if you will be racing Pro IT this season or if you raced in the past. I'll enter all the 2008, 2009, and 2010 stats next weekend.

[lateapex911]

Great day at LRP...a bit windy but otherwise good. Seemed well run, congrats to the hosts!

And some great racing too. The SM race....for second, was pretty fun to watch, and the Pro IT race had some excitement. (Sorry for Flat Out, they have some work ahead of them)

Great seeing everybody, and some old faces who will be back soon!

[mossaidis]

Thanks for the update Jake - curious on the details... hopefully everyone got home safely. mickey

[RHallRacing]

Pro-IT was exciting. I started 36th/42, 4th in ITB. Picked off about 8 cars on the start and tucked in right behind Hubbard. Some cars tangled right before the uphill on the first or second lap which caused a full course Yellow for a few laps.

The race re-started and I had a great battle with Ken Hubbard for most of the race for P1 in class. But..... we both got by a Miata after he got lose..... While the Miata was try to put the pressure on, we got passed by the leaders heading into 1 and the miata driver got greedy and tried to split the difference.....got lock up and went straight into my passenger side...sending me down the access road and finishing my day.

Im sure someone else can take it from there.

But I did have a blast. 1st race in the new car and very excited for the rest of year. THanks to everyone in the SCCA/PRO-IT for putting on a great event. All the races today were pretty excting

[Andy Bettencourt]

Up and down for me. Pole for both the Restricted Regional and Pro IT. Regional was fun with a win. Sorry Shane and Crazy Joe were DNS'. Pro IT was not so good. P4 overall start and got pinched in between 2 BMW's after Big Bend. FCY came out and I needed to come in for a fender adjustment. Restarted last, got 18 cars but then OP went to zero and car shut down. We will see what the damage is.

Overall, great weather, fun crowd. Start of the day was Greg Amy's ITS car picking off a couple rows during the STU race before T1. Dave Gran also ran a nice tight race in the SS car.

[BruceG]

Up and down for me. Pole for both the Restricted Regional and Pro IT. Regional was fun with a win. Sorry Shane and Crazy Joe were DNS'. Pro IT was not so good. P4 overall start and got pinched in between 2 BMW's after Big Bend. FCY came out and I needed to come in for a fender adjustment. Restarted last, got 18 cars but then OP went to zero and car shut down. We will see what the damage is.

Overall, great weather, fun crowd. Start of the day was Greg Amy's ITS car picking off a couple rows during the STU race before T1. Dave Gran also ran a nice tight race in the SS car.

Andy...there was a 3 car pile up behind you at the start of the Regional. Spec Pinata #6(Steph) and #72 along with a rabbit. I was standing next to the EMT hut and it looked like it was raining jelly beans. It took the flatbed 10 minutes to lift the VW off the infield wall. Luckily, no one was hurt. We also picked your #6 Pinata(nice gal driving(Amy?)earlier from the infield on turn 2. You guys did a great job getting her back on the road for the regional.

[Jeremy Billiel]

It was good getting back to the track and seeing everyone!

LOTS of carnage this weekend in just about every class!

[Greg Amy]

...Greg Amy's ITS car picking off a couple rows during the STU race before T1.
Hah! That was fun. I think we got a REALLY early green and a large part of the field was caught off-guard. I was all "go, go, go !" and the others were all "what green...?"

;)

Unfortunately, a quarter of the way into the race I managed to pitch the car off the track at the Uphill (driver error*) and I almost wadded it up into a little ball...you ever do a tank-slapper up the Uphill at LRP...? As noted elsewhere it's repairable, but I have to burn my undies...I'm sure Billiel will have the in-car all over the InterWebz sometime later today...

The carnage this weekend was pretty intense. Lost 4 (?) Miatae in the second qually on Friday to a big wreck; lost a GT-1 car and another Miata in the Saturday warm-up, the former due to a blow engine and oil all over the place, the latter from being behind said GT-1 and a resultant visit to a wall; lost another 3 (?) Miatae and an ITA Golf to a front-straight wreck (WTF?) at the green flag for the Regional; then another 2-3 to yet another wreck during the Pro-IT race. And I'm sure I missed a whole lot of other engines blown (like the EP car that slickified the braking entry into T1 first qually on Friday), cars wrecked/parked, and body panels crunched/bumpers ripped off.

Kessler noted he can't think of any other SCCA weekend where there's been more collective carnage and/or blown engines. Me neither.

Tell you what, it was a pleasure watching Bettencourt drive the "Monster of a car" in the "SSM and Others Regional". That damn thing looks good going down the straight, into braking, and through the T1/2 complex...

GA

* We tried a new non-standard differential in the Integra this weekend, and it made the car extremely inconsistent and unpredictable. As a result I could not for the life of me get the turn-in and apexing consistent; I either missed apexes by two feet, or found myself pounding the inside curbs.

The latter of which you don't want to do at LRP. Which is what I did at the Uphill.

When the car landed after that leap at the bottom of the hill (9.8 from the French judge!) the back end popped out, resulting in a tank slapper up The Hill. Fortunately, I managed to keep it off the left wall until I got over the crest then I did a "two feet in" slide to the driver's left Aarmco backwards to a glancing blow. Managed to restart and take the checker, but still...

Or I simply drove like total crap this weekend...I'll go with the "new diff" excuse for now...

[benspeed]

A great weekend at LRP - have to agree that this track eats up cars and equipment. Seems like the Road Race Center of the East puts on the most wrecks. Track was pretty quick and the weather was excellent. Great to see so many folks out - lotta drivers there watching whilst their cars are getting finished/fixed.

Pro IT was a slugfest. I never drove so hard to finshish last - that'll tell ya how tough these guys are. In the true sense of competition it was a race to even get the car in line to get to grid for a decent start. Andy B won that battle and had his car in line three groups before the Pro IT qualifier. Then when it was time to grid - no Andy! Fortunately somebody moved his car for him so he was 4th and Matt, Doc and I all told Andy to blow past us down pit lane so he could grab some clean track for his ITA Miata - we all sorta wanted to see if he could take pole over all the S and R guys...he almost got it and had fourth.

Top Ten was

ITR Nimkoff - 1:00.9
ITS Henderson - 1:01.2
ITS Driscoll - 1.01.3
ITA Bettencourt - 1.01.745
ITR Phillips - 1.01.756
ITR THiele - 1.01.8
ITR Fox - 1.01.85
ITS Rooke - 1.01.9
ITR Brealt - 1.0196
SM Jessberger - 1.02.4

The Autotecnic guys proved you don't need to be at the front of the grid to grab a good time - they were mid pack for qualifiying and still started up front.

A bunch of us put on sticker tires for the race. I took off my tires and thought that they looked pretty damn good but I was worried they had about 15 heat cycles and that they'd give up after 25 laps in what looked to be a 40 lap race.

The start at the front was pretty clean but I hear there was some major pushing and shoving going into T1. Hendo got a little loose in Big Bend and I was able to get by him and Andy got pinched in the mix. Some Miatas got waxed at the uphill, think one of them was Nick Leverone, so we took four laps under caution. That put the grid at Nimkoff, Driscoll, Phillips, Henderson, Thiele, Fox, Brault, Rooke - hard to be sure - I just remember that all of these guys were all over me like dents on a Miata.

On the restart Hendo got an insane launch and was able to drive past me and Nimkoff. I did a total Banzai Ben on Nimkoff into T1 got some major air under the right tires but managed to hold on and make a clean pass (thanks Rob for not launching me into the weeds). By turn three it was Driscoll, Henderson, Phillips, Nimkoff. For about ten laps I was able to keep up with the Autotechnic BMWs but then I began to fade. Nimkoff made several attempts to pass but I was able to hold him off by driving the line but my handling problems got worse and Rob was really putting on the heat and forced me into running wide at West Bend. He then took us side by side into the downhill and I should have let him go and tucked in. Instead I ran wide into the marlbes and barely held on, watching Rob Nimkoff drive off. I dropped it back to third to get back going and found myself half a straight behind with a swarm of BMWs all over me. From there on I just dropped like a rock with really greasy tires. I was so pissed in the car wishing I had not switched to stickers and wondering why these R6s gave out so bad.

All I can say is I made every one of you dudes work to get around me! I haven't driven in my mirrors this much ever and that forces a guy into mistakes - I'll blame it on the tires. Thanks to all the drivers who ran me clean - all the passes were spot on good judgement moves - just great driving and lots of respect while pushing to the max. Fred Fox got on my bumper and then disappeared - I heard he went off and hit the wall, don't know where but I hope he and the car are OK.

There were many car parts on the track and some pretty bashed up cars. The leading SM driver, Ron Jessberger was hit in the rear under FCY so hard that it snapped the rear and he had to park it. Munroe and Thiele banged some bumpers - Rob Thiele is forever cursed to having a repaint on something after every race!

My hat has to go off to Rob Driscoll - that man is overall winner for both of the Pro IT races so far this year and he's not got a scratch on the car and looks cool as a cucumber out there. Looking like a champ buddy. Only guy I know who might ruffle you would be Kip but the talent up here in the NE has scared him off - where are you Kip? I need another Porsche to help out against all these Bimmers!!!

So I got from 5th and 2nd in class to 3d and 1st in class, then dropped to 8th and last in class. My only saving grace is second fastest time of the day. Rob Nimkoff had FTD - wonder if it was the track record for ITR. Great Run Mr. Nimkoff! Driscoll only got you by .6 secs at the line - no mistakes, well done!

Top Ten Finishers:

ITS Driscoll 1.01.3
ITR Nimkoff 1.00.8
ITS Henderson 1.01.2
ITS Rooke 1.01.077 (eight to fourth - nice)
ITR Brealt 1.01.3I (ninth to fifth - nice)
ITR Munroe 1.01.7 (11th to 6th - nice)
ITR Thiele 1.01.35
ITR Phillips 1.01.004
ITA Cefalo 1.02.18
SM Harding 1.02.69

Winner in ITB Ken Hubbard 1.04.3

This was a great event and it ran well with the National. Tons of fun and lots of spectators. The autobody economy is thriving!

[Terry Hanushek]

TeamDI Pro IT Round 2 Results
Lime Rock Park

ITR

Robert Nimkoff - 39 laps
Robert Breault - 39 laps
Tyler Munroe - 39 laps
Robert Thiele - 39 laps

ITS

Rob Driscoll - 39 laps (overall winner)
Jeff Henderson - 39 laps
Matt Rooke - 39 laps
Bill Umstead - 37 laps

ITA

Marc Cefalo - 39 laps
Andy Bettencourt - 12 laps

ITB

Kenneth Hubbard - 38 laps
Tim Mullen - 38 laps
Richard Gelason - 37 laps
Chris Schmidt - 35 laps

ITC

None

SM

Jeff Harding - 39 laps
Craig McHaffie - 39 laps
Dennis Valet - 38 laps
Jonathan Farbman - 38 laps

Great event - close, intense racing

Terry

[Fred Fox]

I was having a great day until I started having a lousy day!

I haven't been racing much in the last years, so I'm still trying to get a rythym going. But yesterday started out great. I ran my fastests lap times ever at Limerock (mid-1:01's). I qualified right up with Rob Thiele and Rob Breault and Ben. The racing was awesome. The best race I ever had. That is until about halfway.

I was running I think 3rd behind Ben. We were lapping traffic. I went wide in Westbend and put two wheels off. No problem I rode it out till about halfway down the hill. I eased onto the track and just as I was back on I caught a glimps in the side mirror of a blue car closing in. I turned back left to avoid contact and put two wheels off again. This time i couldn't save it and hit the tire wall at the bottom of the downhill. Whole drivers side is pushed in. I just got the car back from the bodyshop two weeks ago. They completely redid the drivers side after damage last year at NJMP. Dropped the car at the Autotechnic shop. Hopefully the same guys who turned Rob Nimkoffs car around after NHIS can have it fixed for the race at NJMP. To top it off my brand new video camera didn't record anything. :( I'm pretty bummed, but it was a blast while it lasted! Hopefully see you at NJMP!

[BruceG]

I was having a great day until I started having a lousy day!

I haven't been racing much in the last years, so I'm still trying to get a rythym going. But yesterday started out great. I ran my fastests lap times ever at Limerock (mid-1:01's). I qualified right up with Rob Thiele and Rob Breault and Ben. The racing was awesome. The best race I ever had. That is until about halfway.

I was running I think 3rd behind Ben. We were lapping traffic. I went wide in Westbend and put two wheels off. No problem I rode it out till about halfway down the hill. I eased onto the track and just as I was back on I caught a glimps in the side mirror of a blue car closing in. I turned back left to avoid contact and put two wheels off again. This time i couldn't save it and hit the tire wall at the bottom of the downhill. Whole drivers side is pushed in. I just got the car back from the bodyshop two weeks ago. They completely redid the drivers side after damage last year at NJMP. Dropped the car at the Autotechnic shop. Hopefully the same guys who turned Rob Nimkoffs car around after NHIS can have it fixed for the race at NJMP. To top it off my brand new video camera didn't record anything. :( I'm pretty bummed, but it was a blast while it lasted! Hopefully see you at NJMP!

Fred ....check with the corner workers(station 11). They recorded the incident when someone wacked me last year at the same spot appr.:dead_horse:

[mossaidis]

^^ still burns doesn't it? Thank you for all the updates. Sounds messy... really, I am happy everyone got home okay. The incidents you describe pale in comparsion to what I saw at LRP last year (Lotus/Miata at the right hander) regardless I am left with the impression that folks are being a bit more aggresive this year than last - whether it be driving against others or driving their engine to the ground!

[mossaidis]

Some updates from the corner workers...

"The larger races were meat grinders today. I was working Station [...] and it was a very busy day. 40+ cars just can't spread out quickly enough to avoid accordion-ing when something happens early in the race.

First race we had someone dump oil all through the Uphill. Problem was, we didn't see it at first. After the 2nd car went squirrely near the top, we noticed it. Unfortunately the 2nd car ended up spinning and ended up perpendicular to the track right at the top of the Uphill. He's lucky he didn't get t-boned. The Mini must have known he was in a real bad spot, so he got restarted and got out of there in a hurry, just as black 9-9 Miata spun in nose first into the wall in anticipation of t-boning the Mini. The Miata ended up pointing down the track, tucked against the tire wall. That shut things down for quite awhile. Luckily they had [XX] the noob (referring to himself) on the radio to keep it all straight.

Another one of the large races had an incident right at the start. Gene Tricozzi can speak to that one. The front runners got away clean but I think most of the mid-pack got caught up in one way or another. We were told to throw a full-course yellow, which the charging pack pretty much was ignoring until I became "animated" with the yellow flags, and my co-workers began waving with their arms to slow down. They had to run under a full-course caution for several laps until they cleared it all up.

Last race of the day, we had a beaut in front of us. I was yellow flagger, and didn't see it start (as you watch from your station down track to the next station), but I heard it happening, and my blue flagger warned me it was coming. Two Miatas went off driver's left. I believe the first one came in too hot for entry to the Uphill, braked hard, causing the 2nd one to brake hard, too. They both went left against the armco, then both spun. A 3rd Miata nailed the 2nd Miata in the right rear wheel area, collapsing the suspension. Those two Miatas ended up on the inside curbing at the beginning of the Uphill, one in front of the other, both disabled, although the Miata with the collapsed RR suspension tried moving and did to a small degree. Furious yellow flags ensued. The oncoming traffic tried braking, and I saw multiple nose-to-tail contact. They sent out the pace car to pick up the field, and we had 3 or 4 emergency vehicles on scene shortly thereafter. Both drivers walked away uninjured, except for a thrown helmet. You discover while waving one yellow flag while holding out a second that it takes awhile for 40-some cars to file by single file in a slow parade lap.

Once the cars got spread out, things went well. "

You made a few corners day... talk about memoriable.

[benspeed]

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7498905/19864306

Video of the first 15 minutes - had the camera on the wrong size resolution and ran out of memory.

[Fred Fox]

Fred ....check with the corner workers(station 11). They recorded the incident when someone wacked me last year at the same spot appr.:dead_horse:

I'm pretty sure the off was my mistake. I should have check my mirrors sooner before bringing it back on track. I'm bummed about no video because i wanted to enjoy the racing action up until the crash. Rob B. or Rob T. did you have cameras going?

[Jeremy Billiel]

Here is the unfortunate incident that Greg had in the Integra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7aL_dGEGs

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here is the unfortunate incident that Greg had in the Integra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7aL_dGEGs

The one thing I tell people about the differences since the repave is that the curbs are a significant disruption.

[dj10]

The one thing I tell people about the differences since the repave is that the curbs are a significant disruption.

Looks that way to me AB in the video.

[vicktorvolpe]

tried to post a few videos of the restricted regional start, but apparently i don't post here enough to put links in. check out specmiata . com for the two videos I guess.

Apparently we gave the folks in timing and scoring a scare as well as the flaggers.

[gran racing]

The one thing I tell people about the differences since the repave is that the curbs are a significant disruption.

Depends on the car and set-up. My Prelude doesn't mind the curbs (rumble strips are a different story). I know a different animal - the SSC car like them as I learned from a couple laps following Joel L. Learned that a little too late.

[robits325is]

The one thing I tell people about the differences since the repave is that the curbs are a significant disruption.

Agreed. Especially the Uphill & West Bend

[lateapex911]

Wow, Greg threatened that wall a few times before he chose his spot. ;) I expected to hear the throttle open during that whole 'event', but I'm clueless as to what to do with a semi out of control FWD car. I do think I heard a dirty word, though, Greg. ;)

[BruceG]

tried to post a few videos of the restricted regional start, but apparently i don't post here enough to put links in. check out specmiata . com for the two videos I guess.

Apparently we gave the folks in timing and scoring a scare as well as the flaggers.

I was standing by the EMT hut when they came undone! Quite a noise....LOL. Lot's of bumpers adrift. Steph(#6 spec pinata) even lost her tie rod and spun across the track with no steering.

[Greg Amy]

Wow, Greg threatened that wall a few times before he chose his spot. ;) I expected to hear the throttle open during that whole 'event', but I'm clueless as to what to do with a semi out of control FWD car. I do think I heard a dirty word, though, Greg. ;)
I clearly remember telling myself as I was bouncing toward it "I WILL NOT hit that wall!!" If I'd dropped in a footload of throttle at that point it would have likely understeered up into the wall and/or it would have added momentum to a quickly - and obviously - diverging situation. I was primarily concerned with getting it past that left wall angle so I could "two feet in" and get it shut down; you can hear a few dips into the throttle to try and get the back end in check, but by that time I was in the grass and the situation was hopeless.

And, yeah, I was pretty pissed off at myself for the whole thing.

GA

[jcmotorsports]

Dave
Do you have a copy of the results or even PM me them. I am interested in T3 and lap times.
Thanks
JC

[RHallRacing]

Any mid pack Pro-IT in car?

[dominojd]

Here is the unfortunate incident that Greg had in the Integra.



Well that coulda been alot worse. :(

[gran racing]

Any mid pack Pro-IT in car?

Not pro-it, but from the regional. Still a bit unsure what lead to all of this. A friend of mine is in the blue Miata that got wacked pretty hard on the front right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0cg88alAY

[mossaidis]

tried to post a few videos of the restricted regional start, but apparently i don't post here enough to put links in. check out specmiata . com for the two videos I guess.

Apparently we gave the folks in timing and scoring a scare as well as the flaggers.

http://www.youtube.com/v/YkxSOaIsP9s

[JLawton]

From an arm chair quarter back point of view......

it looks like the dark VW and the yellow Miata were "leaning" on each other and it got a little out of control (and then a LOT out of control). It also looks like the dark Miata that shot across the track may not have locked up his brakes..........


(referencing to the first video)

[cchandler]

From an arm chair quarter back point of view......

It also looks like the dark Miata that shot across the track may not have locked up his brakes..........


(referencing to the first video)


I've seen alot of this in Club racing. Arrghh. That vid shows how close to a solid T-bone that could have been - at pretty good speed too. Richie's accident just prior to the bridge from 2 years ago comes to mind. He rolled from the left side of the track to the right side, and into traffic, and then got a very solid hit (that snapped the door bars).

Is there not enough emphasis on "2 feet in?" Do drivers not understand why?

That crash looked like NASCAR!!

[BruceG]

I've seen alot of this in Club racing. Arrghh. That vid shows how close to a solid T-bone that could have been - at pretty good speed too. Richie's accident just prior to the bridge from 2 years ago comes to mind. He rolled from the left side of the track to the right side, and into traffic, and then got a very solid hit (that snapped the door bars).

Is there not enough emphasis on "2 feet in?" Do drivers not understand why?

That crash looked like NASCAR!!

"two feet in" is the first thing they taught us at the Skippy racing school and I've heard them say it at all their classes(even 3 hr ones). Thanks Bruce MacInnes, Bob Green and Rick Pocock for some valuable lessons!

[lateapex911]

I've seen alot of this in Club racing. Arrghh. That vid shows how close to a solid T-bone that could have been - at pretty good speed too. Richie's accident just prior to the bridge from 2 years ago comes to mind. He rolled from the left side of the track to the right side, and into traffic, and then got a very solid hit (that snapped the door bars).

Is there not enough emphasis on "2 feet in?" Do drivers not understand why?

That crash looked like NASCAR!!

I bet Richie still SWEARS he had two feet in, was locked down, wasn't moving, etc etc.

And in the first vid, what's with that black Golf flying through after the rubbin' turned to wreckin'? I'll take whatever HE'S got under the hood, man!

[BruceG]

I bet Richie still SWEARS he had two feet in, was locked down, wasn't moving, etc etc.

And in the first vid, what's with that black Golf flying through after the rubbin' turned to wreckin'? I'll take whatever HE'S got under the hood, man!

Good point,Jake.....at least nitrous in that Golf.....LOL

[gran racing]

Which Golf is that?

Not Mullens from what I can tell.

[BruceG]

Which Golf is that?

Not Mullens from what I can tell.

Dave.....Black with an orange stripe up the side. The one who made contact with the yellow spec pinata(or vice versa) in your video before Mustapha(black jelly bean) spun into Steph(#6 blue jelly bean). I think his last name is Blizzard. Jake and I were joking about how fast he took off down the track after the pace car went in and what type power he was making.

[Jeremy Billiel]

The golf was Brian Blizzards.

[THawkbh]

Here is the unfortunate incident that Greg had in the Integra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7aL_dGEGs


The one thing I tell people about the differences since the repave is that the curbs are a significant disruption.

I did the same thing in the june school last year. I'm not big on the big curbs.

[benspeed]

Hey Fred Fox - shame on the damage - hate to hear that sweet car got hurt - glad you're OK - the downhill is an expensive place to go off...hope that proves wrong.

Greg Amy - that explicative is a visceral soundbite bro! Got to capture that one in an mpeg audio file.

On the spec Miata crash - wish I could see the in-car video from the blue Miata that HAMMERED the black Miata, then goes from track edge left all the way right. Had to be a scary ride. Next in-car I'd want to see is the black one that did the multi 360 spin.

[JLawton]

And in the first vid, what's with that black Golf flying through after the rubbin' turned to wreckin'? I'll take whatever HE'S got under the hood, man!

Don't forget, Brian's car is an ITA car

[gran racing]

Don't forget, Brian's car is an ITA car

Ah! That makes more sense.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ah! That makes more sense.

I disagree. Both black VW's in the vid are ITB cars. Blizzards ITA is already headed toward the wall when the second one shoots up the center. I don't write that stuff off to power, I figure he got a huge run by actually having a radio and knowing when the green flies.

Car next to video car that gets a solid start is Tim Mullen and the second car that looks like he got shot out of a cannon looks like a GTI - so that would have been maybe Gleason or Miller? Just a great run from the back when everyone else was slower me thinks.

[BruceG]

Hey Fred Fox - shame on the damage - hate to hear that sweet car got hurt - glad you're OK - the downhill is an expensive place to go off...hope that proves wrong.

Greg Amy - that explicative is a visceral soundbite bro! Got to capture that one in an mpeg audio file.

On the spec Miata crash - wish I could see the in-car video from the blue Miata that HAMMERED the black Miata, then goes from track edge left all the way right. Had to be a scary ride. Next in-car I'd want to see is the black one that did the multi 360 spin.

Ben....when she(Steph, blue # 6 spec pinata)got hit, her tie rod broke, so she had no steering all the way across the track into the barrier!

[CRallo]

Wow, Greg threatened that wall a few times before he chose his spot. I expected to hear the throttle open during that whole 'event', but I'm clueless as to what to do with a semi out of control FWD car. I do think I heard a dirty word, though, Greg.

Well, this is easy for us because "hindsight is 20/20" and we can rewind it and watch the vid 15 times... lol

That said, opening the throttle would have put weight on the back of the car and settled it down, so it would not have had to have been chased all over the place...

In addition, it appears as though being light on the throttle attributed to the incident in the first place. The up hill is a fast corner and therefore a fair amount of power must be added early in the corner to properly balance the car... this was not done and you can actually see the car yaw or rotate a bit mid corner and this is what actually caused the contact with the curb...

I had a very simialr instance my self once as I was trying to clip closer to the curbing and moved a bit to far in! The pucker factor was high, but I managed to fight natural instict and follow my training... I kept the hammer down, settled the car down, used every bit of the extra pavement, but was even able to angle the car back to the right before unloading the car and straightening my hands over the top so that I never even touched the grass on top of the hill!

once again, hindsight is 20/20 and stuff happens, but the best thing is to be able to learn from it. One of my favorite things about working at Skip Barber was learning from other peoples incidents...

:024::eclipsee_steering::023:

[Greg Amy]

You're note even close, Roger Staubach...^^^

[Andy Bettencourt]

You're note even close, Roger Staubach...^^^

Let me try!!!

We all know that some throttle can settle the car down but when you are pointed at a wall, it's a tough requirement to fill. This looked like a simple case of the following:

Fast corner > curb > unsettled car > headed toward wall > lift > oversteer > crest of hill adding to all issues > grass/dirt > overcorrection > hands lose wheel > overcorrection > overcorrection > both feet in > cursing > Matt swearing on pit road when Jeremy reports radio contact

Damn curb. The bottom line is that sometimes there is no room to apply throttle given angle and proximity to immovable objects.

[Greg Amy]

Very close.

Unfamiliar diff, too much front compression, coupled to broken rear swaybar = unpredictable car. Driver pounds curb he shouldn't = flying car. Flying car lands nose-first and bounces. Tail comes out.

Follow Andy from there.

Planting the throttle would have resulted in a lot faster, louder crash.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Any plan for this event to hit MyLaps?

[Kai Noeske]

Here is some in-car footage from this weekend -

"Lime Rock Driving School"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg94a0dKMqE

[Fred Fox]

[QUOTE=benspeed;306457]Hey Fred Fox - shame on the damage - hate to hear that sweet car got hurt - glad you're OK - the downhill is an expensive place to go off...hope that proves wrong.
QUOTE]

Thanks, Ben. Looks like it needs a new fender, quarter panel, and maybe the door.

[JLawton]

I disagree. Both black VW's in the vid are ITB cars. Blizzards ITA is already headed toward the wall when the second one shoots up the center. I don't write that stuff off to power, I figure he got a huge run by actually having a radio and knowing when the green flies.

Car next to video car that gets a solid start is Tim Mullen and the second car that looks like he got shot out of a cannon looks like a GTI - so that would have been maybe Gleason or Miller? Just a great run from the back when everyone else was slower me thinks.

I think the reason it seemed the VW shot through so quickly is because everyone else was on the brakes and he wasn't.


Well, this is easy for us because "hindsight is 20/20" and we can rewind it and watch the vid 15 times... lol

That said, opening the throttle would have put weight on the back of the car and settled it down, so it would not have had to have been chased all over the place...

In addition, it appears as though being light on the throttle attributed to the incident in the first place. The up hill is a fast corner and therefore a fair amount of power must be added early in the corner to properly balance the car... this was not done and you can actually see the car yaw or rotate a bit mid corner and this is what actually caused the contact with the curb...

I had a very simialr instance my self once as I was trying to clip closer to the curbing and moved a bit to far in! The pucker factor was high, but I managed to fight natural instict and follow my training... I kept the hammer down, settled the car down, used every bit of the extra pavement, but was even able to angle the car back to the right before unloading the car and straightening my hands over the top so that I never even touched the grass on top of the hill!

once again, hindsight is 20/20 and stuff happens, but the best thing is to be able to learn from it. One of my favorite things about working at Skip Barber was learning from other peoples incidents...



And how many front wheeled cars have you raced wheel to wheel??? :shrug:



:p

.


Here is some in-car footage from this weekend -

"Lime Rock Driving School"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg94a0dKMqE


OMG, too funny!!!

[kevin22]

My Pro IT video.

http://vimeo.com/11936071

[Greg Amy]

Here is some in-car footage from this weekend...
"This video is private..."

???

[Kai Noeske]

"This video is private..."

???

Oops... it was public earlier today. :(

[Marcus Miller]

Oops... it was public earlier today. :(

same vid is up on vimeo. search muda motorsports

[lateapex911]

My Pro IT video.

http://vimeo.com/11936071

"This is a private video"

[kevin22]

Fixed,

[dtanthon]

Visit www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com)
There is a Media Section where you can load your videos to the Video Gallery.

Get me your W9 forms as well, I'm printing checks today for Lime Rock. Some BIG payouts!

Also, check out www.TheDevilInTheDark.com (http://www.TheDevilInTheDark.com) as well if you want track time.

[kevin22]

The W9 Link on the website is not working.

[dtanthon]

Thanks Kevin, fixed the link.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The Regional ever going to hit MyLaps?

[Terry Hanushek]

Andy


The Regional ever going to hit MyLaps?

I'm not completely certain but I don't think that the T&S software used for the weekend is compatible with MyLaps.

Terry

[CRallo]

"This video is private..."

???


"This is a private video"


The W9 Link on the website is not working.


Andy



I'm not completely certain but I don't think that the T&S software used for the weekend is compatible with MyLaps.

Terry

Does anything work!? lol :eclipsee_steering:

[lateapex911]

Evidently the multi quote function does!

So, do you have any used Triumph STs or Ducati ST4s for me to test ride? narrowing the choices down...

[Terry Hanushek]

Evidently the multi quote function does!

:D

[CRallo]

Evidently the multi quote function does!

So, do you have any used Triumph STs or Ducati ST4s for me to test ride? narrowing the choices down...

Haha indeed it does!

Used Triumph's are scarce and used Sprint ST's even more so... Looking for a 1050 I assume? ABS? I could poke around and put the word out...

[lateapex911]

Never ridden a Triumph, except a 955 Daytona years ago. That thing put out HEAT! But the triple IS a great motor, so I think i should sample one.

I'm leaning strongly in the Ducati direction, love those v twins. Which is odd because I HATE Harley V twins. Mumble mumble, common throw crank, cheap engineering, mumble mumble..... I think the ST4s with the 996 motor (retuned) sounds sweet. No ABS on that one, reports are it softens the lever feel. I've ridden other Ducatis, 900SS, and loved them, except for the seating/bar relationship, which I think will be better on the ST line.

So, yea, keep you eye out!

[M5rokit]

Ben,
Thanks for the in car. Now I can see where my newbie ass went wrong on the restart. Never had one let alone at pole. Robert Greene gave me comments too so never again! My battery ran out in my camcorder (left it on after qualie stupid)so I could not get action from my end. Boy, Rob and I dueled it out until the end and it was FUN. Good luck in NJMP. I'll be missing it due to surgery recovery for about a month.:dead_horse:
Rob N.

[benspeed]

Hey Rob - I bought a new camera like Glen Lawton's - plus an extra battery. Hopefully I get the same excellent digital quality and the thing won't crap out after 15 minutes. I was getting ready to go back to the tape camcorder but conversion for online posting is a PITA so I dropped the 2 bills for the Aiptek, lens and the accesories.

Not so sure yer a rookie anymore :-) Pretty dang fast my friend. Hope the medical stuff is minor and you heal up better than before.

Cheers,

Ben

[lawtonglenn]

Ben

Do you have a way to make a clamp like mine for the Aiptek?
I think we made an extra one if you need it.

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?p=305288#post305288

Glenn