NHMS TeamDI Pro IT Race - April 10th

[lawtonglenn]

:D

1. What a wonderful, sunny beautiful day, and an excellent,
competitive, fun race !!! Thanks everyone!

2. Rob Driscoll (25 ITS), Rob Breault (36 ITR), Nick Leverone (89 SM),
Anthony Ruddy (86 ITA), congrats on the win!!

3. Ben Phillips (33 ITR) bummer on the post race.. you were
very fun to run with, and I hope we do it again soon.

4. Jeff Henderson (23 ITS) I accept your apology for running
me off at the exit of the bowl for 2nd, we almost made it through :D

5. Matt Rooke (16 ITS) thanks for passing the bastard :D

6. Jimmy Locke (70 SM) I looked for you after, sorry we didn't meet...
At NHMS, passing under braking into 3 (DIVEBOMBING) is
generally a very risky maneuver, as the offline passing car
often contacts the online car that you are trying to pass, when
the forward car goes in to the apex.

It is a perfectly reasonable tactic to gain position, but you
have to assume (know) that the car being passed is aware that
you are there and going to try it, and it is incumbent upon the
passing car not to contact, which is very difficult to do there.

It is a perfectly UNREASONABLE tactic when you are being lapped.

Luckily I saw you in time, scratched my head, and allowed you
to divebomb through without contact, but it really wasn't to
be expected, since you were being lapped. Next time please
save the risky maneuvers for when it counts, ok?

7. Dominic Crugnale (29 ITR) congrats on the fastest laptime 1:13.1...
next time in qualifying I am going to go through
the barrier in 3 to 10 to shave off a few seconds too! :D

Again, what a great time!

Best
Glenn

[lawtonglenn]

Jeff...someone pointed out to me that my comment about accepting
your apology sounded sarcastic (especially when paired with the
bastard comment) <chuckle>...

that's not the case...we went in two wide, it was for a podium spot,
there just wasn't enough room at the exit, you understeered a bit,
we never touched, I went off, you apologized post race, I accepted...
It is no problem at all, and I look forward to many close races
with you in the future :)

Doc Breault...I put the 14 car up on the lift just now and found
that the James Bond smokescreen button I pushed to cover your
windshield in oily stuff was my ripped inner right rear CV boot
donating its charge to the environment (much of which found the
exhaust just below it)....it also explains why I wrongly thought
I had a flat and came in, it was just a well greased tire

Best!
Glenn

[Terry Hanushek]

TeamDI Pro IT Round 1 Results
New Hampshire Motorsports Park

ITR

Robert Breault - 33 laps
Ann Lamport-Hammitte - 33 laps
Robert Thiele - 33 laps

ITS

Rob Driscoll - 33 laps (overall winner)
Matt Rooke - 33 laps
Jeff Henderson - 33 laps

ITA

Anthony Ruddy - 32 laps
Phil Kogan - 32 laps
Matt Rowe - 28 laps

ITB

Ken Hubbard - 32 laps

ITC

None

SM

Nick Leverone - 33 laps
Steve Gorriaran - 33 laps
Jeff Harding - 33 laps

After a few safety car laps to clean up an Exxon Valdez-like oil spill, lots of tight, clean racing. A great way to start the season.

On to Lime Rock

Terry

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[StephenB]

Any lap times posted anywhere? I really wish I had the day off so I could have come up... I'm sure as always it was great racing!

Big thanks to Darrell and Ben for getting my new seat to Raymond!

Stephen

[StephenB]

Any lap times posted anywhere? I really wish I had the day off so I could have come up... I'm sure as always it was great racing!

Big thanks to Darrell and Ben for getting my new seat to Raymond!

Stephen

[lawtonglenn]

Any lap times posted anywhere?

FASTEST LAP - RACE (1 minute +)
===============================

Rob Breault ITR 15.073
Ben Phillips ITR 15.118
Rob Driscoll ITS 15.136
Glenn Lawton ITS 15.172
Jeff Henderson ITS 15.424
Bob Blake ITS 16.183
Rob Thiele ITR 16.320
Ann Lamport-Hammitte ITR 16.396
Nick Leverone SM 17.529
Steve Gorriaran SM 17.534
Steve Lewis SM 17.632
Jack Hall ITS 17.797
Russ Jones ITS 17.818
Jeff Harding SM 17.926
Andrzej Brzezinski SM 17.979
Phil Kogan ITA 18.232
Anthony Ruddy ITA 18.449
Keith Hammitte SM 18.626
Yiannis Tsiounis SM 19.188
Ken Hubbard ITB 19.199
Jimmy Locke SM 19.755
Matthew Rowe ITA 22.792
Christian Chandler ITA 43.575
Matt Rooke ITS na
Robert Beede ITS na
Dominic Crugnale ITR na
Windell Holmes ITA na
Rob Nimkoff ITR na


FASTEST LAP - QUALIFYING (1 minute +)
===============================

Glenn Lawton ITS 14.827
Rob Driscoll ITS 15.041
Russ Jones ITS 15.375
Ben Phillips ITR 15.399
Rob Breault ITR 15.650
Jeff Henderson ITS 15.650
Matt Rooke ITS 16.060
Bob Blake ITS 16.113
Ann Lamport-Hammitte ITR 16.191
Steve Gorriaran SM 16.330
Robert Beede ITS 16.574
Rob Thiele ITR 16.747
Nick Leverone SM 16.983
Andrzej Brzezinski SM 17.520
Jeff Harding SM 17.666
Dominic Crugnale ITR 17.933
Anthony Ruddy ITA 18.174
Steve Lewis SM 18.338
Phil Kogan ITA 18.541
Windell Holmes ITA 18.624
Keith Hammitte SM 18.841
Jack Hall ITS 18.934
Jimmy Locke SM 19.064
Yiannis Tsiounis SM 19.090
Ken Hubbard ITB 19.682
Rob Nimkoff ITR 19.970
Matthew Rowe ITA 20.666
Christian Chandler ITA 24.321

[JLawton]

1) What happened to Ben?
2) Did any ITers run STU?

[benspeed]

I was moved to last place in class for non compliance. This was a pretty tough pill since I won the ITR race but after meeting with the stewards it's pretty black and white. At impound everybody was to open their hoods - I understand that Topeka asked for air intakes be inspected. My intake box has a stock snorkle. The guy I bought my car from was a injection molder and created a bigger snorkle to the front air vent in the car - creates a great Ram air effect. I've shown this to many folks remarking that here is a great, legal mod for the 968. Well, not legal.

When the car was inspected it was questioned and I said, "go look at Brian's 968 parked over there by impound - my snorkle is in the stock location getting air from the stock location." Well, that provided a perfect comparison point. After inspecting Brian's car it was determined that the small grill that goes over the air vent was missing on my car - no question that is non compliant. The second non compliant point was after very, very careful inspection it was determined that the metal area in front of the airbox was modified to allow the snorkle. Now I owned both those cars and had them both in my garage side by side - I didn't notice but no excuse - can't have modified body work - so that was the second non compliant item. This work was so good several folks in impound said no way that was modified, its factory. Well, it was different on Brian's car so no doubting that.

So while I was totally disappointed I hope I comported myself with class like a man, licked my wounds and will come back with my issues corrected. I received clear instruction on what to do. A point I will add - the big snorkle was legal - but since I have to replace some bodywork it won't be as effective. I plan on working with tech to make sure what I do to correct this is 100% to the satisfaction of tech.

Kudos to the stewards. These folks managed the process very professionally. I was treated with dignity and respect and communication to me was very clear and direct. I clearly understood what was happening, why and unfortunately the outcome.

This was a roller coster weekend. T&S had no times for me after qualifying. Then my times were found and I was third overall and on ITR pole. Won the race, did the victory lap and went downhill from there...

Looking forward to racing at LRP - I will be there with vengeance.....

PS - I did the STU race. I was so depressed I was going to skip it but my buddies encouraged me. Didn't fill up the tank - got DQ'd for being 8 pounds light. It was icing on the cake but I didn't really care - I was so bummed my heart wasn't into it. There were 8 cars in the whole race and only 4 STU cars. I was against Maynards Grand AM BMW and Parlato's World Challenge BMW - no chance. Gorrarian raced his Miata but pulled off to get into another car for the next session.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ben, call me.

[benspeed]

Just got my messages - will call you this AM. Wall St. meetings this AM

[Greg Amy]

The Pro-IT race was a fun one, it was great to see the top guys running together all race.

We had a BFA in the first group (Pro-IT) due to T&S issues (not many cars were getting "hits" on the loop) resulting in some scrambles to both resolve the technical error and to find bodies to run stopwatches -- I'd not run a stopwatch in T&S since 1986 and I was lost even with only doing two cars!). Fortunately, after the restart the technical glitches were pretty much resolved.

There was a fuster-cluck in T9/10 first lap of the Pro-IT race Saturday, leaving Wendell Holmes and Bill Fenton with damaged cars, and with Yiannis Tsiounis "sans" door skin the whole race (Yiannis has in-car video of the whole thing). Funny thing, Yiannis didn't know he was missing the door skin until his radio guy called him and told him!

We lost about 8 minutes to the subsequent clean-up of oil (all the way from entry into T9 to T11), paced by Yours Truly (I wanted to hold up the middle finger to signal one to go, but I figured the translation might get lost), and from there it was green to the end. Great race.

We in Scrutineering had very few issues, however it was still interesting since we had posted in advance at registration exactly what post-race items we were going to inspect for each class. This posting generated a LOT of interesting discussions and some inspections throughout the weekend (and yet we still snagged a few "discrepancies" post-race, each of them typically a simple misunderstanding or oversight of the regs). If you are a technically-oriented rules nerd-like personality, you would have enjoyed your time volunteering in tech (hint, hint!)


Did any ITers run STU?
As Ben noted, four STU entries. Phil Parlato won with his sweet (fully self-built) World Challenge BMW, with Dave Maynard hounding him the for second; Dave was never more than a few car lengths behind the whole race. Ben dropped in a respectable third - there's some good potential in that car. Unfortunately, Maynard was excluded due to being significantly underweight; he mistakenly thought that STU also accepted Grand AM-prepped cars as well as World Challenge*.

As for the National racing, I was personally disappointed in the run group numbers. I was very surprised at the low counts, but I hear from others there that this is typical for a National weekend :shrug:. I think the FF/FV group had 7 cars...? Honestly, if it wasn't for the addition of the Pro-IT and "All Miata" run groups, that track had the potential for being a ghost town...

There were some good opportunities for STU track time for Improved Touring entries; two half-hour quallies and a 45-minute race, then add in there more racing on Saturday for Pro-IT (and a keerapload of more time if you drove a Miata; I think we figured Jerry Rigoli's SSB could have run 4 race groups; 5 if you count Prod...!) I'm bummed we weren't able to make it on the track, but I invite you all to join us for a few other Nationals, and come out to help at the track if you can't.

GA

* There's a lot of misunderstanding about the STU rules. STU is an "either/or" proposition: you can prep to the STU rules, *OR* you can prep to the most-recent World Challenge rules for your car *OR* you can prep to the Improved Touring rules *OR* you can prep to the MX-5 Cup rules. You cannot mix-and-match these rules, but it's perfectly fine to cherry-pick which one is most advantageous for you.

In talking to Dave Maynard, I recognized that the mistake was assuming STU was like ITE, where you can prepare your car to *any* professional race series. Not the case. Unfortunately, his legal STU weight (which is based on engine displacement) is about 350 pounds more than his Grand Am weight, so it would take a lot of lead to make it STU legal...

However, I didn't think of this until during the drive home, but does anyone know if his BMW complies with the ITR specs? I don't know if his chassis is even eligible for ITR, but if it is I have to wonder if maybe the GA prep level is within ITR allowances? If I had thought of this post-race we could have discussed it to see if he could squeak through...

[Andy Bettencourt]

The Pro-IT race was a fun one, it was great to see the top guys running together all race.

We had a BFA in the first group (Pro-IT) due to T&S issues (not many cars were getting "hits" on the loop) resulting in some scrambles to both resolve the technical error and to find bodies to run stopwatches -- I'd not run a stopwatch in T&S since 1986 and I was lost even with only doing two cars!). Fortunately, after the restart the technical glitches were pretty much resolved.

There was a fuster-cluck in T9/10 first lap of the Pro-IT race Saturday, leaving Wendell Holmes and Bill Fenton with damaged cars, and with Yiannis Tsiounis "sans" door skin the whole race (Yiannis has in-car video of the whole thing). Funny thing, Yiannis didn't know he was missing the door skin until his radio guy called him and told him!

We lost about 8 minutes to the subsequent clean-up of oil (all the way from entry into T9 to T11), paced by Yours Truly (I wanted to hold up the middle finger to signal one to go, but I figured the translation might get lost), and from there it was green to the end. Great race.

We in Scrutineering had very few issues, however it was still interesting since we had posted in advance at registration exactly what post-race items we were going to inspect for each class. This posting generated a LOT of interesting discussions and some inspections throughout the weekend (and yet we still snagged a few "discrepancies" post-race, each of them typically a simple misunderstanding or oversight of the regs). If you are a technically-oriented rules nerd-like personality, you would have enjoyed your time volunteering in tech (hint, hint!)


As Ben noted, four STU entries. Phil Parlato won with his sweet (fully self-built) World Challenge BMW, with Dave Maynard hounding him the for second; Dave was never more than a few car lengths behind the whole race. Ben dropped in a respectable third - there's some good potential in that car. Unfortunately, Maynard was excluded due to being significantly underweight; he mistakenly thought that STU also accepted Grand AM-prepped cars as well as World Challenge*.

As for the National racing, I was personally disappointed in the run group numbers. I was very surprised at the low counts, but I hear from others there that this is typical for a National weekend :shrug:. I think the FF/FV group had 7 cars...? Honestly, if it wasn't for the addition of the Pro-IT and "All Miata" run groups, that track had the potential for being a ghost town...

There were some good opportunities for STU track time for Improved Touring entries; two half-hour quallies and a 45-minute race, then add in there more racing on Saturday for Pro-IT (and a keerapload of more time if you drove a Miata; I think we figured Jerry Rigoli's SSB could have run 4 race groups; 5 if you count Prod...!) I'm bummed we weren't able to make it on the track, but I invite you all to join us for a few other Nationals, and come out to help at the track if you can't.

GA

* There's a lot of misunderstanding about the STU rules. STU is an "either/or" proposition: you can prep to the STU rules, *OR* you can prep to the most-recent World Challenge rules for your car *OR* you can prep to the Improved Touring rules *OR* you can prep to the MX-5 Cup rules. You cannot mix-and-match these rules, but it's perfectly fine to cherry-pick which one is most advantageous for you.

In talking to Dave Maynard, I recognized that the mistake was assuming STU was like ITE, where you can prepare your car to *any* professional race series. Not the case. Unfortunately, his legal STU weight (which is based on engine displacement) is about 350 pounds more than his Grand Am weight, so it would take a lot of lead to make it STU legal...

However, I didn't think of this until during the drive home, but does anyone know if his BMW complies with the ITR specs? I don't know if his chassis is even eligible for ITR, but if it is I have to wonder if maybe the GA prep level is within ITR allowances? If I had thought of this post-race we could have discussed it to see if he could squeak through...

Thanks for the excellent recap. The Maynard car COULD be eligible (like our MX5) but you can seam weld along with a few little things that are outside the norm. A careful look at the IT rules BEFORE the GAC build could have netted a dual-purpose car. And I think he has a 330 which puts the weight at 3290 which is 10lbs off his STU weight interestingly.

A quick search yeilded no fruit on the SWC weight for an E36 325. Anyone know where to look? I found VTS's for E46 325 but no weight on it. COuple questions on legality:

World Challenge spec cars: They need to run the spec tire, right? I say this based on the specific allowance for the MX5 Cup cars to run any DOT tire with a size limit. If you run an older SWC car, what tire do you run? The RA-1 from when it was listed or the R888 from now. I would think you have to run the car AS CLASSED from the 'latest available VTS' sheet.

For sure they need to be running a Toyo of some sort...and BMW engine allowances are minimal...

Slow track? Surprised given the time of year...

[rsx858]

Fun weekend! Glen, way to snag the pole! you were flyin.

Really looking forward to limerock... Could IT go sub 1 minute?? :rolleyes: stay tuned

[Greg Amy]

...I think he has a 330 which puts the weight at 3290 which is 10lbs off his STU weight interestingly.
Dunno. I wasn't running the scales during STU, but Dave mumbled something - paraphrased - about 'not going to add over 300# just to run STU'.

A quick search yeilded no fruit on the SWC weight for an E36 325...Anyone know where to look?Old WC rules, I'd guess. Maybe do a search using web.archive.org?

World Challenge spec cars: They need to run the spec tire, right?That's a good point. Given that you must meet the most-recent-for-your-car WC rules, I can only conclude you must run Toyos...however, in talking to Phil about his car, he said that the STU rules pretty much mimic the WC rules (he runs STU rules)...so there's no reason to get hand-cuffed by the Toyos.

GA

[dtanthon]

I have the ITR trophies for Robert Breault, Ann Lamport-Hammitte, and Robert Thiele. I'll hand them out at LRP.

Thanks for a successful and fun round 1 of the 2010 season. Going to be a good one!

[almracing]

The ProIT Race was a great way to shake the cobwebs off. With 2 twenty minute qualifying sessions and a 45 minute race, there was plenty of track time.

Thankfully I made it thru the spins without damage. There were two occasions (qual and race) where I saw a red car sideways in front of me.

As for the race itself, it was fun to mix it up with a Miata for quite a while. Then I dropped the right rear wheel off track at the turn-in at turn 6 and that sent me spinning. My nice lead over Phil Kogan went away quickly. My apologies to the ITR/ITS leaders who were coming thru at that time. I pedaled as fast as I could up the hill. All the drivers were patient with me as the car got back up to speed. (I got back on line out of 6)

Phil and I got to battle a bit for the last 4 or 5 laps, with Phil taking a run on the inside at 3. But the CRX was able to power up the hill and that gave me the advantage to the checker.

It was a long day, but ended well.

[MMiskoe]

A quick search yeilded no fruit on the SWC weight for an E36 325. Anyone know where to look?


Give a call to Topeka, they should have archived copies of the WC rule sets. I got a copy from the mid-late 90's a few years back.

[RSTPerformance]

Slow track? Surprised given the time of year...

I don't think it was that slow of a track... Ken Hubbard ran a 1:19.1 in the ITB car... Close to the track record I belive!!

Raymond "Should have bumper cam shots from kens qualifying session up soon" Blethen

[benspeed]

I was able to locate the little grill that was missing from my car on a 968 forum - I was really worried I wouldn't be able to get the stock part.

Couple of comments - I thought the track was slow. It was very green from all the rain on Friday and the sun didn't shine long enough on Saturday to really warm the pavement. Good cool air for power but only moderate grip.

My camera wasn't working so I'm curious who crashed into the back of my car at turn 3, first lap. I thought to whole back would be smashed in from the hit - not a scratch - pretty stout car.

After the disappointment of being non-compliant wore off I guess the guys who had the worst weekend was Rob Thiele and Rob Nimkoff - man, both those guys have had more than their share of bad luck with mechanical/crash damage. I hope both you guys make it to LRP to battle. Windell - he got crashed out too - bummer.

I heard a red ITS Honda was demolished - who was that? I didn't see the car.

PS - Glen - total blast running with you dude - that was one insane tank slapper you had going through 12! I kept thinking, he's going, nope, he's gone, nope, going again, nope - incredible save after running through a ton of oil.

[dj10]

What happened to Rob Thiele and Rob Nimkoff ?
I'm hoping to join the ProIT fun 1st races @ njmp. I should be ready by then.

[l8tbreakr]

Just a quick note, I drove up on Sat to watch with my son and had a great time walking around and meeting a few of you there. A little surprised by the low car count, but was told a few times about conflicts this weekend with SRF down south and a typical low count National weekend. Either way it was a good trip up and great to watch the PRO-IT race on Saturday afternoon. Should be seeing y'all soon in an SM race.

Regards,
AJ Goldsmith

[lawtonglenn]

In car video in 4 parts from my car:

http://video.yahoo.com/mypage/video?s=5915974

tomorrow we should have video from Bob Blake's car posted

best!
Glenn

[benspeed]

Awesome video Glen - super cool to watch the race.

Dan - Rob and Rob both made contact with one another after avoiding another car's spinout during qualifying. Thiele emergency braked to avoid and Nimkoff was behind and rear ended Thiele - both cars had damage. Thiele was able to soldier on with some major damage and race, but Nimkoff's car was too hurt and sidelined for the race.

[dj10]

Ouch! I'm glad they are OK.
Bummer about your DQ Ben, points and $ :~(

[Doc Bro]

As I said at the end of the race, Ben that little piece is not why you beat me....bummer dude, but next one should be good....look out boys that Pcar is stout.


Great vid Glen and Bob, fun to watch. It's a shame that the ITS Honda was involved in wrecking so many good cars last weekend, if there is a silver lining he finally wrecked himself so maybe now he'll understand discretion.

Does anyone have an official revised race result sheet they can email or fax?
Thanks

Looking forward to LRP.

R

[Greg Amy]

It's a shame that the ITS Honda was involved in wrecking so many good cars last weekend, if there is a silver lining he finally wrecked himself so maybe now he'll understand discretion.
I apparently don't know the whole story, but I'd be careful with the blanket statements like that, Rob. The entered driver (I don't know for a fact who was driving) is a long-time driver/entrant, with a lot of significant experience and numerous successes in both SCCA Club and Pro, and IMSA/Grand Am racing. The guy's been racing probably as long as I have, if not longer...I think Bill and I were racing against each other in SSB back in the early 90's!

Again, I don't know the details, so I hesitate to comment on the specific incident(s). But I don't think the gentlemen in question needs any "schooling" from any of us...

GA

P.S. I was pretty surprised to see him entered in ITS...can't imagine why, with SSB and Grand Am efforts in the works, he finds IT attractive...maybe we have a good thing going on here...!

[lawtonglenn]

...
Great vid Glen and Bob, fun to watch....


I want lessons on that threading the needle maneuver at the start!....

Did you have to inhale to get through between me and Driscoll?

:D

[Doc Bro]

I apparently don't know the whole story, but I'd be careful with the blanket statements like that, Rob. The entered driver (I don't know for a fact who was driving) is a long-time driver/entrant, with a lot of significant experience and numerous successes in both SCCA Club and Pro, and IMSA/Grand Am racing. The guy's been racing probably as long as I have, if not longer...I think Bill and I were racing against each other in SSB back in the early 90's!

Again, I don't know the details, so I hesitate to comment on the specific incident(s). But I don't think the gentlemen in question needs any "schooling" from any of us...

GA

P.S. I was pretty surprised to see him entered in ITS...can't imagine why, with SSB and Grand Am efforts in the works, he finds IT attractive...maybe we have a good thing going on here...!



Greg,
Rumor was it was his son.....dunno.

Either way, he got caught mirror driving going into 3 causing him to spin by himself in front of me, taking out Nimkoff and Thiele in the process, experience or not -rookie move.....you wouldn't do that. I know that for a fact.

Glen, I was in full pucker, and at one point tucked my elbows in as if it would help!!

R

[almracing]

I too had an up front seat. The red ITS Honda was coming inside (drivers left) of me out of Turn 2, so I pointed him left and gave him the line into Turn 3. I took the inside line. As we got to the turn in, the Honda rotated across the track. I kept my foot on the brake a bit longer to see where the Honda went and that let Rob get thru. I then mashed the gas as I saw the people around me starting to pile up and followed Rob up the hill. I was glad I had a cup of coffee before early qualifying.

Seemed to me to be a combination of overtaking cars and cold tires. It sucked to see so much carnage in a qualifying session.

[lateapex911]

what kind of Honda? Any video of the incident? In QUALIFYING? how lame.

[gran racing]

In QUALIFYING? how lame.

Seriously - what idiot would get involved in anything that foolish during qualifying Jake? :o

With your story and this one, I honestly think it's pretty silly.

[FastM3]

OK guys. Lets all take a deep breath.

I had a whole story written last night but it did not update for some reason. Probably a good thing as I have had a chance to settle down a bit.

The Red Car. OK all of us that were driving in qualifing and in the race that came upon the situation(s) have our own thoughts about it. About 5 cars were damaged due to (or by coincidence of being near the situation of) this car / driver.

The same car (not sure of the driver) crashed twice during the Watkins Glen Enduro last fall and the car hit me (after it recovered from spin in the Laces of the Boot) as I was turning in for turn 11. The driver was quite indignant about it by his hand gesture afterward.

I would love for the person driving to give his side of the NHMS situation. None of us knows this side of the story.

Phil # 38 Miata

I believe we may need to start a drivers group to discuss issues like this situation among ourselves at the track. Personally I will be giving this car a wide berth in the future. I do no want to get involved racing with it.

Greg, I understand your statement earlier, but if you were there I believe you may be of a different opinion. If this car were driven by Jackie Stewart I believe his behavior should be reviewed and be discussed.

I hope no drivers were hurt. I feel bad for Windell as he was at my right rear quarter panel as we rounded turn 9 where the Civic had spun. I went left and missed the Honda while Windell hit him head on and pushed the Civic into Yannis's door. The fact that the Civic then drove the racing line bakc to 11/12 while leaking all it's fluids and catching fire did not help make friends either.

[Greg Amy]

Phil, you're absolutely correct: I was not there, I'm only making a commentary on who I assumed was driving.

However, you also bring up another great point: how/whether to confront a driver that displays a consistent history of unacceptable driving. Why is it that we are pretty OK with beating the crap outta each other on the track (usually figuratively, sometimes literally) but we become such wussies when it comes to important face-to-face adult discussions? We have that same problem with protesting cars, too, a misplaced concern that we might "offend" someone? Or is it that we feel a lot safer when we're in the car, with a less chance of getting punched in the face?

Maybe I'm different, but I rarely have issue with walking up to someone, asking them to step aside and talk to me in private, and letting my feelings be known. I'm not always right - after all, there are different points of view to everything - but at least that conflict doesn't fester, possibly resulting in more conflict going forward. At worst the person tells you to go pound sand (and a $25 visit to the Stewards can address that); at best they respond with "sorry, I didn't recognize that, I'll keep it in mind". But to ignore it and hope it goes away accomplishes nothing.

On the flip side, we need to be able to accept criticism as well. As you well know (;)), I've been involved in conflicts and I always do my best to keep an open mind to learn "why" and try not to let it happen again. And, whenever I do get into a conflict - my fault or not - I do my best to find that person and get it resolved ASAP (probably a lot due to my aviation experience; when you're flying formation within only a wingspan of 2-5 other airplanes cockiness is destructive in post-flight debriefs; if you can't take criticism others won't fly with you.) If I were to dig my heels into the sand and demand I'm always right, then things would never change...at that point those that have conflict with me have the right - the responsibility - to toss paper; an unresolved conflict will likely result in serious damage or injury in the future.

We don't need a driver's advocate to do our laundry for us, but should you feel the need you can always get a Steward involved to administrate a non-formal discussion. But the absolute WORST thing you can do is to hope it goes away on its own...

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Greg addresses an age-old issue. Maybe we can BREED the behavior we want. What if as part of the driver-advocates responsibilities, they moderate a manditory 'round table' with any drivers that have contact during a session (with an available Steward present if possible).

When it becomes manditory and 'easy' to voice your opinion in a structured and protected environment, I think people will become much more aware of each other.

[wepsbee]

In car video in 4 parts from my car:

http://video.yahoo.com/mypage/video?s=5915974

tomorrow we should have video from Bob Blake's car posted

best!
Glenn
Some day when I grow up I want to drive just like that. Thanks for the video I will watch it often.:023:

[gran racing]

but we become such wussies when it comes to important face-to-face adult discussions? We have that same problem with protesting cars, too, a misplaced concern that we might "offend" someone? Or is it that we feel a lot safer when we're in the car, with a less chance of getting punched in the face?

Maybe I'm different, but I rarely have issue with walking up to someone, asking them to step aside and talk to me in private, and letting my feelings be known.

Keep in mind Greg that you're talking from a perspective of someone whose been in the game for a while, and with that comes more confidence in what's going on. Regardless, the face-to-face discussion is a key to ensuring stuff doesn't happen again or as a minimum give fare warning it won't be brushed off and just accepted. It's a tough walk when going over to a competitor and often times tensions are still high making it even more daunting for people. Sometimes the discussion isn't meant to happen that day either (aka Sam Moore and my talk which finally happened the next time we raced together a couple of years later). Again, not saying it shouldn't be done.

Protesting a car becomes even more intimidating since it also involves quite a bit of knowledge about the system, and it quite a bit of effort.


I believe we may need to start a drivers group to discuss issues like this situation among ourselves at the track.

If a driver is approached by a group, they'll automatically go into defense mode no matter what the situation. People should feel okay to speak with other more experienced drivers on suggestions how best to approach situations.

Drivers who participate in the MARRS series have a class driver's rep to work through various situations. Wonder how that works for them?

[FastM3]

Hey Anthony

Thanks for a fun race. I enjoyed the challenge. Linda will take over for the regionals, but maybe we can race again at another Team DI event. I really did want to get around you for a Miata win but I think we both had our issues. My tires were pretty tired and you had fuel deals going. Somehow I set my personal best at NHMS during that race. Keith H. did a nice job pressuring me for quite a while until being swallowed up by the leaders.

Sorry to Rob Breault for impeding your progress on the last lap, but all I could see was CRX and I was not going to let a BMW get in the way.

Phil # 38 Miata

[Doc Bro]

Sorry to Rob Breault for impeding your progress on the last lap, but all I could see was CRX and I was not going to let a BMW get in the way.

Phil # 38 Miata


Phil,

No apologies necessary. I was safe in second wth no chance of losing 2nd or catching first. I was more than content to hang behind you guys and watch a good race!
R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Phil,

No apologies necessary. I was safe in second wth no chance of losing 2nd or catching first. I was more than content to hang behind you guys and watch a good race!
R

Quoted for drivers. This is the right attitude IMHO.

[JLawton]

I rarely have issue with walking up to someone, asking them to step aside and talk to me in private, or scream at them in impound...........

GA


Fixed!


:D

[romoman]

I thought you guys might enjoy a couple photos from the weekend.

[Steven McWilliams Jr]

That looked like a really fun race. Once I get more experience in the car I definately want to come out and join you guys. i saw someone had an inquiry about the MARRS series with drivers reps. the drivers reps are really nice to have. Because of the level of competition, and speeds on the track, people are not really hesitant to speak to the driver in quesiton. The driver rep is a nice addition because if the whole field (or a any amount of people) has a problem, they can speak with the drivers rep, and the DR will speak to the driver in question. Which is effectively the whole group talking to the driver as one person which keeps the driver from getting defensive. The DR's also help fight for and issue fair track time, paddock spots, and if there is incidents on track they also play a part helping the stewards. I'm suprised more regions don't have Drivers Reps, they're a good buffer between Drivers/Stewards and Drivers and each other. (Reps are Drivers too btw)

Hope this helps,
Steven

[almracing]

Phil,
It was fun to get to challenge each other. The best part was that we both got our fastest laps at the end of the race.

[rthiele]

:dead_horse:
Adding my 2 cents to the crash, since I was the one with the unfortunate premium view and the "ass on the line" (damn, that bumper was all new!):

The red car spun all by itself. He did not lock the breaks and rolled back on the track. That move caused the cars behind him to almost come to a stop (e.g. me). A half a dozen cars behind me were lined up - and wham! Rob N. didn't see me early enough, locked up on the inside line and hit me.

Lessons learned:
1. hit the breaks to prevent the car from rolling back on the track. It is very dangerous and unpredictable for other drivers to have a car shoot across the track

2. Qualifying is not a race. I don't understand why there are so many bulks of cars together sometimes even racing each other. With so many cars at different speeds close together the lap is wasted anyway - why not slow down, let the others go, relax the tires - and get a free, fast lap? This is way more effective, not speak of the risks (see above).

[Terry Hanushek]

Rob


Lessons learned:
1. hit the breaks to prevent the car from rolling back on the track. It is very dangerous and unpredictable for other drivers to have a car shoot across the track

2. Qualifying is not a race. I don't understand why there are so many bulks of cars together sometimes even racing each other. With so many cars at different speeds close together the lap is wasted anyway - why not slow down, let the others go, relax the tires - and get a free, fast lap? This is way more effective, not speak of the risks (see above).

Excellent points .... Don't be too surprised if you hear them again

Terry

[benspeed]

Huge thanks goes out to Glen Lawton and Robert Blake! That was a great suprise to receive the DVD in the mail, complete with highlights index and race results.

THAT WAS SUPER COOL!!!!! You guys rock

[dtanthon]

ditto on what Ben said!:happy204:

[dtanthon]

See me at LRP on Saturday for your NHMS check. Make sure I get your W9. Check www.ProITSeries.com (http://www.ProITSeries.com) for the form. Plus update your profile.