BFG R-1's or Kook C51's

[cjb25hs]

I look at both tires and know there is no contingency so that makes things even.

Which tire will be faster and offer the best life. The BFG's I have only read opinions based on heavier cars. I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.

Car is an ITA Neon size 205-50-15, I would be buying 6 tires and rotating them thru as even as possible. Would run at least the following

MVR Double @ Nelson 5/15-16 (3) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel Cities Restricted single @ Beaverun 7/31-8/1 (2) practice/qualifying (1) race
NeOhio 1 day double after the 12 hr @ Nelson 8/22 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel cities 1 day double @ Beaverun 9/26 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races ?

So that would be roughly 14 cycles spread across 6 tires

BFG's are $986.71 shipped
Kooks are $1,095.00 shipped

[ITA_honda]

I look at both tires and know there is no contingency so that makes things even.

Which tire will be faster and offer the best life. The BFG's I have only read opinions based on heavier cars. I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.

Car is an ITA Neon size 205-50-15, I would be buying 6 tires and rotating them thru as even as possible. Would run at least the following

MVR Double @ Nelson 5/15-16 (3) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel Cities Restricted single @ Beaverun 7/31-8/1 (2) practice/qualifying (1) race
NeOhio 1 day double after the 12 hr @ Nelson 8/22 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel cities 1 day double @ Beaverun 9/26 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races ?

So that would be roughly 14 cycles spread across 6 tires

BFG's are $986.71 shipped
Kooks are $1,095.00 shipped

cough BFG cough

oh wait..am I allowed to vote? :p

[Andy Bettencourt]

I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.



Really? Educate me on this!

PS: I think the Goodyear RS is better than all of them.

[cjb25hs]

Really? Educate me on this!

PS: I think the Goodyear RS is better than all of them.

This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.

[quadzjr]

This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.

unfortunately the goodyears only come in a few sizes, and after talking to the rep at PRI, that don't plan to change (no tires for 14" wheels) Also from the rep at PRI he says that with there tires, and especially with the slicks they need to be bedded or breaked in to get maximum life out of the tire. so run a light session, come in ot the pitcs and take the weight off them and let them cool.

Aparrently this will resolve the heat cycle issue people are having with them. I have alos heard that once they get hot, they will remain consistent, where a hoosier will dramatically fall away during the race.

[Andy Bettencourt]

This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.

They would easily do 14 cycles across 6 tires. I find that they take an extra lap to come up to speed but are 100% consistant froa race up here in the Northeast. They are also less prone to flat spotting if you make a mistake. I have never gone faster with Hoosiers than with Goodyears. They are only available in 205/50 and 225/45 15's IIRC.

I have run them for 3 years now.

[benspeed]

When I was in ITS on a 15 inch wheel I ran Goodyears - personal best on them at LRP and NHIS...

[cjb25hs]

They would easily do 14 cycles across 6 tires. I find that they take an extra lap to come up to speed but are 100% consistant froa race up here in the Northeast. They are also less prone to flat spotting if you make a mistake. I have never gone faster with Hoosiers than with Goodyears. They are only available in 205/50 and 225/45 15's IIRC.

I have run them for 3 years now.

So what is the best method you use to heat cycle them in? I can still drive my car on the street so I would consider running the fronts only for a good 10-15 minutes change and repeat. Cool in dark basement :)

[lateapex911]

I've run Kooks and Hoosiers on my car back to back. The Kooks are great, but the Purple is greater. The Kooks do seem to last, with a gradual fall away.

The Kooks seem like they have tow golden laps right out of the gate.

Generally speaking, cycling requires you to get the tires up to temp...really up to temp. Street driving, unless you have a closed off development with lots of corners, just isn't practical.

[JoshS]

Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?

[cjb25hs]

I've run Kooks and Hoosiers on my car back to back. Street driving, unless you have a closed off development with lots of corners, just isn't practical.

I was thinking of 4 to 5 miles of 75-80mph plus some cornering. Seems to me that a local autocross 1-2 runs back to back would work as well.

[erlrich]

Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?

BFG recommends one heat cycle, then let them sit for 24 hrs. Pressures appear to be in the Hoosier range - they have a pretty good guide for the R1 here (http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/pdf/R1_Guide_online_2.26.07.pdf).

[Eagle7]

Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
Please start a thread on this when you get back from the track. I'm pretty tempted to try them, but neither my budget nor schedule allow much experimentation.

[lateapex911]

From what I hear, they are slower. Even if they last longer, they are still slower. So, I guess it's a price decision..are tehy THAT much cheaper?

IF they are, say, 1 second a lap slower, and they last 12 or 14 cycles, and if the Hoosier is faster by a second a lap, but loses a second after 5 or 7 cycles, but stabilizes for 5 or 6 more cycles, then it seems like the Hoosiers are better, as you are faster for some and the same for the rest of the cycles.

But, thats a presumption. It would be great to get the back to back answers...but, this is black magic, answers are tough to come by!

[dj10]

"From what I hear, they are slower."
Not true Jake, and don't judge them by my times @ ARRC, I had problems with my car, not the tires.

[type r rocket]

I doubt you will find someone who has purchased more BFG tires then me(lately).We use them on a front drive 2400 pound enduro car.
We have been using them for the last 3 years.3 years ago in testing the Hoosier was about 1/2 a second faster when both tires were new.After the first sesssion the Hoosier was 3/4 a second faster for about 7-8 laps and then when it dropped off both tires were pretty equal in times.I would say when both tires have a few cycles on them they are very close in lap times with the Hoosier being a tad quicker in the first few laps.The BFG smoked the Hoosier in tire life,we have never corded,flatspotted or chunked a BFG tire.We have put used ones on the rear of the car and left them for 8 hours straight.The fronts have been double stinted(4 hours straight) many times and depending on the track or driver may have then been used for rears.
Don't get me wrong I like and run Hoosiers on other cars but the BFG is at least $40 less per tire I think,they work well with no" oh my god fall off" and if you can heat cycle them once and let sit for 24 hours they will last forever.We scrub in all our sets of enduro tires,I am sorry but unless you are a top notch driver in your class and need to have fresh rubber every race the BFG is a awesome tire and it sounds its exactly what your looking for.

So we tried the newest Goodyear tire at the ARRC last year,brand new tire no one had it yet.Tire was awesome,fast,crisp,clean and boy you could drive the car right to the edge which the one down side to the BFG is when exiting the corner you want to ease your way over to track out and maybe even leave a extra 6 inchs just in case it wanted to keep going.As awesome as the Goodyear was I did a easy session to scrub it in,let it sit for 24 hours,Mark Carpenter qualified on it and then used them for the ITR Sprint race.They were put on for the first stint of the 3 hour enduro and when he came in after hour and twenty minutes they were gone.So after about 2 1/2 hours they were useless.

And as far as Hankocks,I wouldn't race them on a big wheel.

Give ol Nate at the Tire Rack a call,I just ordered a bunch of stuff from him,he is awesome,his ext. number is 688

[Eagle7]

Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
How did it go?

[JoshS]

How did it go?

Not very well. Apparently I was the only one on the planet who didn't know that the '03-'05 GM trucks had instrument cluster gauge issues, so when my oil pressure dropped to zero, I gave up on the journey and had the truck towed back home and had a friend come get me and the trailer from the side of the road. Turns out it was just a gauge issue, not an engine issue.

I'll be making another attempt (this time Laguna Seca) at the end of the month.

[Eagle7]

I'll be making another attempt (this time Laguna Seca) at the end of the month.
Hope this attempt went better :)

[JoshS]

Hope this attempt went better :)
Thanks, but ... not really. It was actually a major carnage weekend at Laguna, so many friends left with big $$ to spend. The luckiest guy in that bunch simply never got his car to start, and after spending 8 hours trying, just gave up on the weekend.

In my case it was just a return of the cooling problem I've had ever since I wrecked the car last June. Obviously something overheated at some point because I continue to lose well over a gallon of water each session, and though you'd think with that much loss it would be obvious where it's going, it's not. Nothing visible anywhere. I thought several times I've had it figured out only to be thwarted. It doesn't reproduce itself anywhere except actually on the track, which has made it tough to diagnose. In any case, the head is coming off this week.

So I did get, oh, 10 laps on the tires? Not much. The car was really sketchy when the tires were cold, much looser than it has EVER been with Hoosiers. I'm now thinking though that I was effectively spinning in my own ... water, if that's even credible.

So I've got no new insight.

[Eagle7]

Thanks, but ... not really. :(

[ericblois]

I look at both tires and know there is no contingency so that makes things even.

Which tire will be faster and offer the best life. The BFG's I have only read opinions based on heavier cars. I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.

Car is an ITA Neon size 205-50-15, I would be buying 6 tires and rotating them thru as even as possible. Would run at least the following

MVR Double @ Nelson 5/15-16 (3) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel Cities Restricted single @ Beaverun 7/31-8/1 (2) practice/qualifying (1) race
NeOhio 1 day double after the 12 hr @ Nelson 8/22 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races
Steel cities 1 day double @ Beaverun 9/26 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races ?

So that would be roughly 14 cycles spread across 6 tires

BFG's are $986.71 shipped
Kooks are $1,095.00 shipped

ive used the bfg R1 on my ITA bmw 2600 lbs ish for our enduro tire at Thunderhill and after 6 hours with no heat cycling before it looks like it could go at least another 6 hours more like 12. it took us almost 2 hours of driving before they started feeling good like the kumho 710's felt the day before durring practice we also had 12 heat cycled hoosier and none of the drivers liked that tire

[benspeed]

I will add that when I put on R6 sticker tires for a 45 minute Pro IT - they dropped off badly. About 20 laps in they went very greasy - I will be sure to scuff them in the future and then let them cure. I think the weight of my car being very high with a full load of fuel added to this - I was 3150 on the grid and planned to burn off about 75 lbs of gas.

[Eagle7]

ITS RX-7, RWD, race weight 2760 (I know - I need to go on a diet).

I tried the BFG R1. Was dog slow at Mid-Ohio, but it wasn't the tires' fault - wussy driving from too much time away from the track. This weekend at Grattan I fixed that problem and got a good comparison. I've got a gazillion laps at Grattan and run +/- 0.1 consistently. The best I could do with the BFGs was 0.9 slower than prior years on Hoosier R6s. The BFG heats up slower, slides more, shudders during a big slide, and wears like iron. I think I might have competed for wins this weekend with Hoosiers, but got beat by a handfull of seconds on the BFGs. Don't know if I'll buy them again or not.

[jimmyc]

hrmm interesting..

Did you have use a pyro, and pressure gauge to get everything set??

From the testing done around here (ITS/A-ish fwd hondas) the R1 like Ra1 settings, AKA A WHOLE LOT of camber, and similiar pressures.

Same with the kooks.

The hoosier tends to like less camber and more pressure...

[Eagle7]

hrmm interesting..

Did you have use a pyro, and pressure gauge to get everything set??

From the testing done around here (ITS/A-ish fwd hondas) the R1 like Ra1 settings, AKA A WHOLE LOT of camber, and similiar pressures.

Same with the kooks.

The hoosier tends to like less camber and more pressure...
My opportunities to get temps have been pretty limited though the years (usually no crew), so my expertise in reading them is likewise limited. I did get one reading at M-O and thought they looked reasonable. This is with my Hoosier setup - 2.5* front, 1* rear, 34 PSI cold front, 31 PSI cold rear. Maybe I need a little more testing. Thanks for the info.

[Tristan Smith]

The BFG heats up slower, slides more, shudders during a big slide, and wears like iron.

Interesting. I experienced that at Road Atlanta during the July race. The few times the car got a bit loose in turn one I felt the shudder. I thought it was the Diff causing it. But after reading your post, it must have been the tires.

Since I have one of the heaviest cars in IT, I like the first and last of the qualities that you listed up there, ha.