2010 NEDiv Roundtable

[dtanthon]

2010 Roundtable
March 12-14
NEDiv Spring Convention
Worker Specialty Training Sessions
NEDiv & NESCCA Meetings
Hamilton Park Hotel & Convention Center, Florham Park, NJ
Registration (http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/rdtbregistration.pdf)
Schedule (http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/rdtbschedule.pdf)
Northern New Jersey Region 60th Anniversary Party (http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/nnjrpartyreg.pdf)

Want to talk face to face with your fellow SCCA members? This is where a lot of decisions are made for the coming season.

[dpc]

Must not, oh well looking forward to seeing everyone at NHMS in the snow drifts in April.....dave

[tdw6974]

Double National for WGI!!

[dtanthon]

2010 Roundtable - check NESCCA (http://www.nescca.com) site
March 12-14
NEDiv Spring Convention
Worker Specialty Training Sessions
NEDiv & NESCCA Meetings

The SCCA President will be attending.
Three (3) SCCA Directors will be attending.

Hamilton Park Hotel & Convention Center, Florham Park, NJ
Registration
(http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/rdtbregistration.pdf)
Northern New Jersey Region 60th Anniversary Party
60th Anniversary Registration (http://www.nescca.com/nescca_main/nnjrpartyreg.pdf)

[dpc]

Just figured it out, oh well see you at NH in April.....dave

[dtanthon]

Just a bump, been quiet up here.

In attendance:
Richard Patullo - Member of SCCA Board of Directors representing Area 1
Gerald Wannarka - Member of SCCA Board of Directors as the Chairman of the Board and representing Area 2
John Sheridan - Member of SCCA Board of Directors representing Area 10
Jeff Dahnert - President, Chief Executive Officer of the SCCA
Bob Dowie - Club Racing Board Chairman
Raymond the Cat and many more special guests.

[dickita15]

whoo whoo top billing

[Andy Bettencourt]

A GREAT opportunity to speak with our BoD rep and the Chairman of the CRB all in one place if you can make it to New Jersey.

[Robert Zecca]

Guys,

We need to get people out to this event....especially for the party on Saturday night. Go to: www.nescca.com to sign up
I have the people coming from New York Life and I want a great showing so that we will get more support from them for the future.
PLEASE COME TO THIS EVENT.

Thanks
Bob Zecca

[R2 Racing]

A GREAT opportunity to speak with our BoD rep and the Chairman of the CRB all in one place if you can make it to New Jersey.
I got to meet all of these guys at the National Convention, and it's definitely worth doing if you have the opportunity. Have direct conversation and provide your opinions directly to the powers that be.

Can't make it to the round table, but make this happen....

Double National for WGI!!
....and I'll for damn sure make it to that!:023:

[Andy Bettencourt]

Guys,

We need to get people out to this event....especially for the party on Saturday night. Go to: www.nescca.com (http://www.nescca.com) to sign up
I have the people coming from New York Life and I want a great showing so that we will get more support from them for the future.
PLEASE COME TO THIS EVENT.

Thanks
Bob Zecca

Let's not get started on WHERE it is.

[Robert Zecca]

Dear Grumpy......I think I saw you in a Walt Disney film years ago....fyi...each region gets to host the event and for 2010 NNJR will host it therefore it will be in the Garden State......sorry that you will not be able to come but I will be thinking of you.....

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dear Grumpy......I think I saw you in a Walt Disney film years ago....fyi...each region gets to host the event and for 2010 NNJR will host it therefore it will be in the Garden State......sorry that you will not be able to come but I will be thinking of you.....

Bob,

I understand all that. We would be there if it was closer. Central locations for events like these are always a plus.

[dickita15]

Considering that the division stretches from New England to DC to Youngstown to Buffalo, it is pretty hard to say this one is too far south.

[kevin22]

You Boston guys think NHMS is the center of the Northeast. Being on Long Island puts me right in the middle of our region. But all it gives me is a long drive everywhere.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Needless to say, we support who supports us. We are sending a road trip crew down.

[IPRESS]

Boy that is a tough deal. Glad the Brownsville, TX to Motorsport Ranch tow is soooo short! Or those lucky Florida guys who can tow to RAtlanta for giggles! I thought you NorthEast Coast guys had Mass Rapid Transit.:D

[Andy Bettencourt]

Boy that is a tough deal. Glad the Brownsville, TX to Motorsport Ranch tow is soooo short! Or those lucky Florida guys who can tow to RAtlanta for giggles! I thought you NorthEast Coast guys had Mass Rapid Transit.:D

We have 4 great tracks and one crappy track within 8 hours of us...but I often wonder how much more towing I would be willing to do to be able to race year round but space out the races better!

[Robert Zecca]

Andy....you will always be my hero and I will always have a special place for you in my heart....seriously....I wish you were there because it will be a nice event and I really need all the support we can get. If we close on this sponsor this could lead to really neat things for all of us. We are talking about a good bunch of money....almost what Topeka got on the whole National series and we may get this for a local series. We.....THE NORTHEAST must do for ourselves because we will not be getting help from anyone soon. We can do this and THANK YOU for all you do for our sport and your constant support...!!!

[Robert Zecca]

The Roundtable was a huge success. I hope to have photos up on the proit site in the next two days. Good news was Frank Scarpa of NY Life showed up with his wife Marie and other friends and they had a great time. They got to meet Jeff Dahnert and other key board members. I am feeling very good about them as a sponsor for our series and hope to have good news for you in the coming weeks.

I want to take the time to thank the NNJR board members for a very memorable event, Jeff Dahnert President of SCCA, Jerry Wannarka, Dick Patullo and John Sheridan for making the trip. We have such great leadership and I would personally like to thank Dick. This man is very intelligent, well-spoken and I know that he will be a great leader for us guys from the NE. I was very impressed....... We got alot to do in the coming weeks to make 2010 a successful year.

Thanks to all the others I did not mention....Jerry Rigoli, Jack Hanifan, Tom Campbell, Bob Introne and all the other members from the NE regions.......By the way did I mention we need a sponsor for Ed Z's wedding from the Glen region. He is making the plunge and I told him we would help sponsor it and find more $$$$$$ this will be one heck of a race/wedding weekend at the Glen! Can not wait!!!

Take care.
Bob Zecca

[benspeed]

The Round Table and NNJR 60 year anniversary was HUGE! I bet there were nearly 200 people and our new SCCA president remarked several times on the great event, awesome organization and participation.

It was cool to be a part of it. Thanks to all who put the event together - great work and GREAT FUN!

[rsportvolvo]

Did anyone discuss the current ITAC-CRB conflict and how they are going to resolve it? That seemed like a good forum to ask some hard questions.

[mossaidis]

These are the only notes I have read so far, and it's not evident that topic was discussed:

http://www.mohud-scca.org/Discuss/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141

[tdw6974]

[QUOTE=mossaidis;303634]These are the only notes I have read so far, and it's not evident that topic was discussed:

http://www.mohud-scca.org/Discuss/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141
A Double National at Watkins Glen:happy204: Just a correction in above report. Interesting reading.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The NARRC shedule is set as it sits on the NARRC website (www.narrc.com (http://www.narrc.com)).

8 races over 5 weekends at 4 tracks with no drops. 3 weekends (not races) must be attended to qualify for a Championship.

[mossaidis]

"8 races over 5 weekends at 4 tracks with no drops."

[Andy Bettencourt]

"8 races over 5 weekends at 4 tracks with no drops."

Thanks! Corrected in mine.

It's officially an attendance award.

[Greg Amy]

Yeah, that one ain't gonna be a draw for me...

[mossaidis]

mind to elobrate tGA?

[Greg Amy]

mind to elobrate tGA?
Too many races, at too many places, in too short a timespan. No way I'll commit that kinda time, space, and money for...a regional championship? Uh, no.

See you guys at the National weekend in a few weeks. We're up to four STU entries for the "I.T.-Shack Championship"!

GA

[ner88]

Too many races, at too many places, in too short a timespan.

GA
Huh?
Half as many events as last year, evenly spred over our regular season.

On the other hand, full fields of STU cars would be fun.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Huh?
Half as many events as last year, evenly spred over our regular season.



And all manditory. Not what the drivers asked for. Still haven't heard why the PTB have done this. We are weekend warriors, not Pro Racers.

[ner88]

Andy, you made your point, again!
I told you where I stood but everyone else wanted no drops.
Greg did not say anything about a manditory series?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, you made your point, again!
I told you where I stood but everyone else wanted no drops.
Greg did not say anything about a manditory series?

And I'll say it until the PTB hear it.

[Greg Amy]

Greg did not say anything about a manditory series?
It could have been inferred (it was most assuredly implied).

No personal offense intended to anyone, but "8 races over 5 weekends at 4 tracks with no drops" in order to win a Regional championship is not Club Racing (as Andy eloquently described). It's actually torturous, unless you're simultaneously wealthy, retired, and bored. The perfect race series for Club Racing is one race weekend per month, spread evenly on both a calender and geographical basis, optimally hitting all the key tracks at least once, with opportunity to accommodate a failure or two through the year (e.g., family/career commitments and/or equipment failures on 10-20% of the weekends).

While I can see the underlying reason for such a series as presented (e.g., using the series championship push as a bone to encourage competitor participation at more events and at more tracks) what the schedule has effectively done is cause a lot of folks to drop out of the series before it ever got started... :shrug:

We cannot as competitors (i.e., the ones providing the revenue) make every SCCA region and/or every SCCA event at every SCCA-accessible race track profitable. There's just not enough time and money to go around.

It's time to cull the herd.

GA

[Jeremy Billiel]

I can't tell you how many times I have tried to explain that racing is a commodity. It is NOT a club atmosphere. Racers simply do not care about the regions, who is hosting events and if they make money or not. They look at the family schedule and then say what weekends can I slot into my free time. Just that simple...

Over time as we have already began to see that the northeast is unraveling and quite frankly we have too many regions and too much politics. The regions with the best events, most value and ease of running will ultimately win.

Just my .02. Call me a cynic, call me what you want, but this is how its SUPPOSE TO WORK.

Rant off.

[Marcus Miller]

I can't tell you how many times I have tried to explain that racing is a commodity. It is NOT a club atmosphere. Racers simply do not care about the regions, who is hosting events and if they make money or not. They look at the family schedule and then say what weekends can I slot into my free time. Just that simple...

Over time as we have already began to see that the northeast is unraveling and quite frankly we have too many regions and too much politics. The regions with the best events, most value and ease of running will ultimately win.

Just my .02. Call me a cynic, call me what you want, but this is how its SUPPOSE TO WORK.

Rant off.

+1
What are you guys running at the natl weekend? Teg? or Miata?

[mossaidis]

If I may... I *think* the PTB decided that NARRC would the premier regional circuit in the NE, hence the limited schedule and no more "soft" point exceptions and rules. Is NARRC at odds with Pro-IT? perhaps... but probably not. If I remember correctly, there was a post here about what NARRC "should be". So... if you are serious about regional championship racing in the NE, you will make the time and effort for NARRC - I am. Don't care about a championship? there they are tons of regional, restricted and Pro-IT races to choose from at every track.

And if you're like tGA and tJB itching for National races w/o having to wait for the damn IT-to-go-National debate to be settled, then there's STU. Don't get me wrong, I would love to put in a K20, cams and a big-a$$ wing on my EG, but based on principal and $$$ I will make the most of it in NARRC.

[Greg Amy]

What are you guys running at the natl weekend? Teg? or Miata?
ITS Integra. It's still in pieces at Kessler's shop and we haven't even started on the Mee-Otter yet!!! :smilie_pokal:

[Jeremy Billiel]

If I may... I *think* the PTB decided that NARRC would the premier regional circuit in the NE, hence the limited schedule and no more "soft" point exceptions and rules. Is NARRC at odds with Pro-IT? perhaps... but probably not. If I remember correctly, there was a post here about what NARRC "should be". So... if you are serious about regional championship racing in the NE, you will make the time and effort for NARRC - I am. Don't care about a championship? there they are tons of regional, restricted and Pro-IT races to choose from at every track.

And if you're like tGA and tJB itching for National races w/o having to wait for the damn IT-to-go-National debate to be settled, then there's STU. Don't get me wrong, I would love to put in a K20, cams and a big-a$$ wing on my EG, but based on principal and $$$ I will make the most of it in NARRC.

Please don't confuse my comments as national vs regional banter. It's 100% about the regions at play and the NARRC series that started this latest version of the thread.

[Robert Zecca]

Dear Drivers,
It is a shame to hear so many people are unhappy with the NARRC, etc......I was at the Roundtable and it was excellent. TOO BAD the drivers did not show up to voice their opinions because we if we really need to fix something we need to voice our opinions. Too late now but I personally feel we need to build back up NARRC to make it mean something like years ago. I am happy that about 50-60% of the drivers did show up to pick up their awards and they were given out by Jeff Dahnert our President.

I have my hands full with ProIT and trying to close this NY Life deal but it would be nice to incorporate a deal for NARRC as well. Maybe we can sit down at an upcoming regional and get this thing figured out. Jerry Rigoli works very hard and Dick Patullo is incredible as well and if we work together we can get thing solved for a sold platform to work for going into the future.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dear Drivers,
It is a shame to hear so many people are unhappy with the NARRC, etc......I was at the Roundtable and it was excellent. TOO BAD the drivers did not show up to voice their opinions because we if we really need to fix something we need to voice our opinions. Too late now but I personally feel we need to build back up NARRC to make it mean something like years ago. I am happy that about 50-60% of the drivers did show up to pick up their awards and they were given out by Jeff Dahnert our President.

I have my hands full with ProIT and trying to close this NY Life deal but it would be nice to incorporate a deal for NARRC as well. Maybe we can sit down at an upcoming regional and get this thing figured out. Jerry Rigoli works very hard and Dick Patullo is incredible as well and if we work together we can get thing solved for a sold platform to work for going into the future.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

Bob,

The feedback was given to the voting members of the NARRC prior to this last roundtable. That feedback was the driver for the two additional tentative weekends we saw on the NARRC website all winter that are now gone. We voiced it, they didn't listen. I have the emails and the dates if you would like copies. Summary sent 11-17-09 after large file didn't go through. Followed up same day with condensed file.

The NARRC is/was the premier series in the Northeast. You HAVE TO ALLOW FOR LIFE to get in the way. Right now it's an attendance award. If you want to have just 8 races, make it the best 6. We are simply not Pro racers, we have to be allowed to have a race or two that we can't make.

And aside from Jerry R, not one member of teh NARRC committee has answered my direct question via e-mail why they voted this way. It's a far cry from a year or two ago when D. Anthony was busting his hump to make it a drivers series.

If the committee isn;t going to listen to the racers...then disband the NARRC and run your local series. NERRC and NYSRRC will survive, but there will be no inter-Regional Championship. Pfft.

And yes, I have volunteered to take over the NARRC and run it differently.

[mossaidis]

Please don't confuse my comments as national vs regional banter. It's 100% about the regions at play and the NARRC series that started this latest version of the thread.

I was placing my own shameless plug on the regional vs national banter. :) STU kills me.

[Andy Bettencourt]

So lets try and swing this to a constructive note. The amount of races has been reduced. Check. About once a month is a great target that has almost been achieved. Check. A variety of tracks. Check.

If we amended the rules to 'best 6 of 8' with the same 3 weekend minimum, you could accomplish what the drivers have been asking for - for a few years now...but we are still hung up on one of teh two biggest issues we have had. There is still time to amend the rules.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Dear Drivers,
It is a shame to hear so many people are unhappy with the NARRC, etc......I was at the Roundtable and it was excellent. TOO BAD the drivers did not show up to voice their opinions because we if we really need to fix something we need to voice our opinions. Too late now but I personally feel we need to build back up NARRC to make it mean something like years ago. I am happy that about 50-60% of the drivers did show up to pick up their awards and they were given out by Jeff Dahnert our President.

I have my hands full with ProIT and trying to close this NY Life deal but it would be nice to incorporate a deal for NARRC as well. Maybe we can sit down at an upcoming regional and get this thing figured out. Jerry Rigoli works very hard and Dick Patullo is incredible as well and if we work together we can get thing solved for a sold platform to work for going into the future.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

BOB - You are making my point. The reason that drivers don't show up is because wait for it.... They don't care about the politics! They look at the final schedule and choose which weekend to attend based on various factors.

You have done a good job with the Pro IT. You never intended for it to replace regionals, but guess what? Pro IT is what people wanted... Again for various reasons. Drivers voted with their wallet. No matter how much you pleaded regional attendance did not go up. Staying for the regional did not make sense for a majority of the racers as they could come and go in one day with the Pro IT.

Again I am a volunteer with NER as many others are in various regions. Until people take a step back and LISTEN to the customers one day a region is going to be in for a rude awakening I fear.

[ner88]

I attended 15 events in the NE last season, I spent time talking to many of the drivers.
Either at a drivers meeting, wandering the pits or small groups in the timing tower/garage at NJMP and I LISTENED.
The current NARRC schedule, for the most part, was my proposal. I recommended drops but I'm only one vote and the discussion was always against them, as it was again this past weekend.
If everyone feels their should be dropped events contact one of the members of the board in your region.
Now, for something I have more control over, NERRC, take a look at our schedule, nicely spread out over the season, 13 races with 3 drops and prices that can't be beat! We are hosting 3 triple race events (what the drivers wanted) and special discounts to double dippers (what the drivers wanted).
NHMS has opened the Coach area, sites with electric & water hook ups, a new play area for the kids and a 30 table picnic area. New restroom with 20+ showers and more coming soon!
Do I care about what you have to say? We have scheduled 4 Club racing board meetings at upcoming race events as well.

Jerry Rigoli NER Club Racing Chairman

[StephenB]

Dear Drivers, TOO BAD the drivers did not show up to voice their opinions because we if we really need to fix something we need to voice our opinions.

Maybe we can sit down at an upcoming regional and get this thing figured out. Jerry Rigoli works very hard and Dick Patullo is incredible as well and if we work together we can get thing solved for a sold platform to work for going into the future.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

With all the modern forms of comunication i would think we could solicite feedback in a more efficient manor. And to be honest I thought Andy did this! I did not go to the round-table but I did submit my thoughts on improving the NARRC series the exact way the NARRC committee requested.

It is TOO BAD those at the round-table didn't follow the communication process that was requested on the NARRC website.

Stephen

[Andy Bettencourt]

With all the modern forms of comunication i would think we could solicite feedback in a more efficient manor. And to be honest I thought Andy did this! I did not go to the round-table but I did submit my thoughts on improving the NARRC series the exact way the NARRC committee requested.

It is TOO BAD those at the round-table didn't follow the communication process that was requested on the NARRC website.

Stephen

Stephen,

The NARRC Committee had the feedback collected. They just chose to not support it. I believe there is time to voice opinions again. Review the series rules at www.narrc.com (http://www.narrc.com) and send feedback to .....committee AT narrc.com....

I will again as an individual. I will be suggestion that we need to change to a best 6 of 8.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Stephen,

The NARRC Committee had the feedback collected. They just chose to not support it. I believe there is time to voice opinions again. Review the series rules at www.narrc.com (http://www.narrc.com) and send feedback to .....committee AT narrc.com....

I will again as an individual. I will be suggestion that we need to change to a best 6 of 8.

BUT ANDY!!!! If you make it best 6 of 8 then the regions who host races that are 7 and 8 on your list will not get your support as a racer. That is unacceptable so I MUST require all 8 so my event can make money. :D:D

This is what we are dealing with.

Jerry - No offense intended to you at all. I think one can argue that NER continues to have great attendence because of many reasons one being the bang for your buck factor.

[StephenB]

Thanks Andy, I think the round table is great for those in positions to collaborate and utilization of the internet the way you have is a great way for members to give feedback. I thought way outside of the box last time I submitted feedback and although I like me ideas I completely understand they are "unrealistic" non the less it was my feedback. I love the once per month, at different tracks. And I support the drops recommended and I don't think their should be any minimum.

Stephen

Anyone that sees this that is interested in the NARRC series please support it and give your feedback to the E-mail Andy mentioned.

[dickita15]

First of all I am only a fly on the wall in this process. My current position does not allow me to unduly influence Narrc decisions, however I think maybe some are being critical of those that are trying to put together a great series.

The Narrc series has never been a tighter schedule. A small number of events and a pretty well spaced out schedule. Good work given the scheduling limitations imposed on our club.

I think it unfair to claim that the format is what it is in order to force drivers to attend a region’s races. Most of the participating regions races are not on the Narrc schedule.

There has always been a fear that Narrc championships would be won by drivers that were good at one or two tracks. Narrc is a touring series centered around Lime Rock. The committee feels that one should not become a champion by being good at LRP and maybe one other track. With such a short tight schedule if there were drops this could happen.

With this years schedule a driver can be competitive with a much smaller commitment of resources that is years past.

If the schedule of this touring series does not meet a particular competitors needs then there are certainly alternatives. See Jerry’s note about the Nerrc series. There is also Jrrc, Nysrrc, Marrs and Pro-IT and for those that are not motivated by a series, which is most, there are tons of races and formats available throughout the northeast.

Compared with the rest of the nation we in the northeast have an embarrassment of riches with regard to opportunities for regional racing. No one else in the country has it as good.

[JLawton]

Dick,

Was this a result of the feedback they received from the drivers or did this come from the NARRC Committee?

[Jeremy Billiel]

First of all I am only a fly on the wall in this process. My current position does not allow me to unduly influence Narrc decisions, however I think maybe some are being critical of those that are trying to put together a great series.

The Narrc series has never been a tighter schedule. A small number of events and a pretty well spaced out schedule. Good work given the scheduling limitations imposed on our club.

I think it unfair to claim that the format is what it is in order to force drivers to attend a region’s races. Most of the participating regions races are not on the Narrc schedule.

There has always been a fear that Narrc championships would be won by drivers that were good at one or two tracks. Narrc is a touring series centered around Lime Rock. The committee feels that one should not become a champion by being good at LRP and maybe one other track. With such a short tight schedule if there were drops this could happen.

With this years schedule a driver can be competitive with a much smaller commitment of resources that is years past.

If the schedule of this touring series does not meet a particular competitors needs then there are certainly alternatives. See Jerry’s note about the Nerrc series. There is also Jrrc, Nysrrc, Marrs and Pro-IT and for those that are not motivated by a series, which is most, there are tons of races and formats available throughout the northeast.

Compared with the rest of the nation we in the northeast have an embarrassment of riches with regard to opportunities for regional racing. No one else in the country has it as good.


Dick - No doubt that we are making progress and this is much better than it was prior. Drop the rule to 6 of 8 and I think we are just about there...

[Andy Bettencourt]

First of all I am only a fly on the wall in this process. My current position does not allow me to unduly influence Narrc decisions, however I think maybe some are being critical of those that are trying to put together a great series.

The Narrc series has never been a tighter schedule. A small number of events and a pretty well spaced out schedule. Good work given the scheduling limitations imposed on our club.

I think it unfair to claim that the format is what it is in order to force drivers to attend a region’s races. Most of the participating regions races are not on the Narrc schedule.

There has always been a fear that Narrc championships would be won by drivers that were good at one or two tracks. Narrc is a touring series centered around Lime Rock. The committee feels that one should not become a champion by being good at LRP and maybe one other track. With such a short tight schedule if there were drops this could happen.

With this years schedule a driver can be competitive with a much smaller commitment of resources that is years past.

If the schedule of this touring series does not meet a particular competitors needs then there are certainly alternatives. See Jerry’s note about the Nerrc series. There is also Jrrc, Nysrrc, Marrs and Pro-IT and for those that are not motivated by a series, which is most, there are tons of races and formats available throughout the northeast.

Compared with the rest of the nation we in the northeast have an embarrassment of riches with regard to opportunities for regional racing. No one else in the country has it as good.


Dick,

I agree that the schedule looks pretty decent. Spacing is ok, number of events is good. In MY tenure as a NARRC competitor, the worry about a one-track-wonder always centered around NHIS and a pile of events there. Now it's spread all over the Division. Recent years have added WGI and spread events out. Some folks didn't like bonus points and this year we try it without those. All excellent moves.

Just because there are fewer OVERALL events, doesn't mean that you have lessened the committment needed to win. This year you have to attend 8 of 8. In previous years, it was the best 8 of 14. Still 8 if you are in a points race.

A simple modification to the structure to allow for us to be actual human beings is what we are asking for. Best 6 of 8. It solves all the issues and it addresses a key desire that the racers have had for years.

[dickita15]

Dick,

Was this a result of the feedback they received from the drivers or did this come from the NARRC Committee?

I honestly do not know how each person came to their individual decisions.

[dickita15]

Dick,

I agree that the schedule looks pretty decent. Spacing is ok, number of events is good. In MY tenure as a NARRC competitor, the worry about a one-track-wonder always centered around NHIS and a pile of events there. Now it's spread all over the Division. Recent years have added WGI and spread events out. Some folks didn't like bonus points and this year we try it without those. All excellent moves.

Just because there are fewer OVERALL events, doesn't mean that you have lessened the committment needed to win. This year you have to attend 8 of 8. In previous years, it was the best 8 of 14. Still 8 if you are in a points race.

A simple modification to the structure to allow for us to be actual human beings is what we are asking for. Best 6 of 8. It solves all the issues and it addresses a key desire that the racers have had for years.

You are right Andy, if you are in a competitive class you will have to race all five weekend to win.

[Andy Bettencourt]

You are right Andy, if you are in a competitive class you will have to race all five weekend to win.

And I do admit a bias. All the IT classes are hotly contested (except ITC). What the PTB have to remember, is that since IT is a Regional only class, the NARRC has been the local measuring stick. No Nationals to go to.

[benspeed]

I'm not running for the NARRC this year but I thought the schedule was excellent. One drop ought to be included, but sheesh - take it easy folks - they got this darn 100% close to what the drivers have been asking for...

[ulfelder]

It could have been inferred (it was most assuredly implied).

The perfect race series for Club Racing is one race weekend per month, spread evenly on both a calender and geographical basis, optimally hitting all the key tracks at least once...
GA

Amen amen amen amen. :023:

Steve

[gran racing]

Right now it's an attendance award.

Right now? LOL!

NERRC series, NARRC series, JRRC series, NYSRRC series, Pro-IT series

Oh my! Maybe we could add a couple more?


the NARRC has been the local measuring stick.

For a select few people, sure. Overall the majority of people do not see it as a measuring stick or even know who won the various series. Heck, most people have absolutely no idea who won any of the IT series championships last year. I don’t even know who won ITB.

There are too many different series being run, too many races, and it’s all watered down. I will say that I do like how Pro IT organizes their series schedule.


…and for those that are not motivated by a series, which is most, there are tons of races and formats available throughout the northeast.

Dick, this is a key point and one that it sure seems regions fail to recognize or don’t make the necessary adjustments based upon this fact. I realize that politics comes into play as well. Another challenge in creating a successful series here in the north east is due the fact there are tons of races and tracks. I’m not suggesting that there shouldn’t be a series since some do enjoy it and if done right, it could be a bigger draw.

I have to imagine that there’s quite a bit of time and effort put into running the various series. Maybe some of that time should be reallocated towards making specific events even better than they already are? As said numerous times, eliminate some other races so this can be done if need be. For example, make the NARRC runoffs a big event again instead of “another typical race weekend” which in my opinion it has become.

Other regions should take a serious look at IT Fest, the Labor Day event at Summit Point and the ARRC at Road Atlanta. Talk about fantastic events!! These events have raised the bar to another level and more regions should follow their lead. The racing is great, but the stuff off the track is what really makes these events. If some don’t think this is the way to go, look at the number of people who attend these events, how far they travel to make it, and how early they put it on their calendars as a “must attend event.”

[Andy Bettencourt]

I'm not running for the NARRC this year but I thought the schedule was excellent. One drop ought to be included, but sheesh - take it easy folks - they got this darn 100% close to what the drivers have been asking for...

Except one of the most critcal Ben. How the Champions are crowned.

[lateapex911]

I have only the faintest notion of how difficult it is to organize a group of groups and come up with a schedule. It seems like the schedule is pretty good, and that's really difficult. So huge attaboys to those responsible.


But it IS perplexing how the drop concept got lost.

How hard would it be to go to the organizers and ask that it be reinstated? I don't see why it would be hard. It's not like they've printed programs, or the season has started. Clearly the drivers want drops.

And it makes business sense for them to do that. I like the schedule, and I'd consider doing those races, which is more than I was considering earlier, but if I have to hit EVERY one of them, I'll just forget the idea and cherry pick things. Less things. I bet I'm not alone in that.


Simple point of fact, as Dick points out, we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to dates and events. Too many races. We have to tempt people to stretch their resources to attend them. Forcing them will end in rejection.

Great job by the PTB on the schedule and pacing though, all things considered.

[dtanthon]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?:shrug:

[Andy Bettencourt]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?:shrug:

I am formulating my newest letter. I have sent 2. 1 of which was the summation of driver feedback which included all the bullets and all the raw feedback.

[StephenB]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?:shrug:

Email is sent

[mossaidis]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?:shrug:

Some things need momentum before you can act... that's how all good riots get started. :mad1:

[lawtonglenn]

.

hmmmm....my daughter's HS graduation... or the 6/19 NARRC race....

Graduation, ...so I guess the best I can do is 7 of the 8 NARRC races....

No Drops?...I guess that means I won't be in NARRC contention...

hmmm...I guess that makes my decision easy...I will race the 8/21 NERRC Double at NHMS instead of the 8/21 NARRC Double at NJMPT... so now that's only 5 of the 8

Since I'm running only 5 of the 8, I am not as motivated to tow all the way to WGI... so I'm in for 3 of the 8

If it were best 6 (2 drops)...my decisions would be different

.

[StephenB]

I am in the same position as you so the drive to NJ is out for me since I can't win without a drop... starting other plans now!

[Jeremy Billiel]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?:shrug:

While the comments here Darrell may feel like an attack its not personal. The comments I made are directed at all regions as this is a broader problem then any one region.

With that said, I stand by my comments as 100% of these decisions are a result of stupid region politics that will ultimately destroy some regions over time. New England is just lucky that NASA and other orginazations to date have not been able to get their act together.

[Andy Bettencourt]

While the comments here Darrell may feel like an attack its not personal. The comments I made are directed at all regions as this is a broader problem then any one region.

With that said, I stand by my comments as 100% of these decisions are a result of stupid region politics that will ultimately destroy some regions over time. New England is just lucky that NASA and other orginazations to date have not been able to get their act together.

I am not so sure I agree with Jeremy. We have tons of tracks and tons or geat events sponsored by the SCCA. This is simply a NARRC Championship discussion. They nailed it this year with tracks and events and almost on dates...it's the best its been in years. Fixing the drop issue would put it in a nice place. Glenn's issues define what happens.

[dtanthon]

If you look close you will see that I am NOT on the NARRC Committee so my email to said Committee will happen tonight. I'm just the NARRC webmaster.

All this region politic BS is amazing, all 4 regions get along rather well from what I experienced and have seen. I was in a NEDiv Meeting Improvement session that conflicted with the NARRC meeting or I would have been in the NARRC meeting. A few drivers hung out after receiving their awards and attended the NARRC meeting I've been told.

But I'm the NNJR Treasurer as well as 'acting' NNJR Race Planning Chair. We were quite upset that we had to cancel Pocono for 2010, we will ask Pocono for a NARRC date in 2011 we just don't know what will be offered. Pocono is a very good event for NNJR, we have been doing this event for 20+ years, dropping it because of the Pro event conflict at NJMP splitting the work force hurt us for the 2010 season before it even got started. I would like to see the NHMS September event added as a NARRC but that didn't happen.

We need to have the 1000 point threshold lowered due to less events.
I'm glad to see no NARRC fee once again in 2010.

The NARRC drivers asked for an event at NJMP, that is why it is on the calendar. What are the odds that the July and August dates offered by NJMP would be the same weekends as NHMS offered. Hopefully the odds of that happening in 2011 will be slim. The July race at NHMS and August race at NJMP are NARRC.

So write your emails. This is the only forum I look at so if other groups feel the same way the only way the committee will know is if you email them.

Last note, I finally got a new job I start on Monday. I'll most likely only run Pro IT and NARRC at NJMP so the schedule and drops don't matter. I hope to get out to see the Pro IT races since that has to be one of the best races around. We have a few more ITR cars so those funds should be better this season.

[ner88]

Can someone please explain to me what you all think goes on between regions???
You all talk about politics and think we as organizers sneak around and do things that are not in your best interest??
Sometimes what is best for you isn't necessarly best for the good of others.
I'm a racer 1st, I represent NER so I/we can all continue to race into the future, I have no personal agenda other than to keep the tradition going.
As I have said in the past I go out and talk to the racers, not just in my region, and listen.
This forum isn't the voice of everyone but only a small minority.
NASA....PLEASE, Give me a break!

[Greg Amy]

Can someone please explain to me what you all think goes on between regions???...You all talk about politics and think we as organizers sneak around and do things that are not in your best interest??
Actually, Jerry, from my perspective I think nothing goes on between regions; I think the regions fail to sneak around and do things in the racers' best interests.

Some cases in point:


June 4th weekend: Pro-IT at NJMP and Regional at NHMS.
June 18th weekend: School/Regional at LRP and Enduro at NJMP.
July 10th weekend: Double Regional at NHMS and Regional/National at NJMP and National at WGI!!!
August 14th weekend: Regional/National at Pocono and Pro-IT at NJMP
August 20th weekend: Regional at NJMP and Regional/Enduro at NHMS

And that's just picking a few at random! And we want to complain about not having enough workers??? Holy-Kerrist on peanut butter, I'd LOVE it if you guys would get together for a little "racketeering"...!!!

Regions have to recognize -- and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record -- that racers in general don't give a rat's ass what SCCA region sanctions the event. I don't scan the calendars for region name; in fact, I usually have to ask the registrars at the track registration window to whom I have to write the check! I personally don't care, all I care about is uno) it's an SCCA event, and duo) it's at such-and-such a track on such-and-such a weekend. If the regions start thinking in reality, that being a region is nothing more than a commodity that has the opportunity to host an event, then I suspect these regions would work together better and things would be done a whole lot different... :shrug:

Dick's right: we have an embarrassment of riches. But there's no reason we have to abuse it.

GA

[ner88]

What you're saying is if SNJ wants to run an event, NER should not? Why not?
It's called freedom of choice.
You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event.
And a lot of them are loyal workers.

[gran racing]

It's called freedom of choice.
You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event.

Freedom of choice? Oh come on Jerry. All regions are a part of one club and need to work together. At least as far as drivers, I'm with Greg. I'm also not convinced that workers are so caring about what region is hosting an event but rather the location of the event, the timing, and how good of an event it will be. The majority of the same workers are seen at a track regardless of whose hosting it. And honestly, that's the way it should be unless we don't want regions working together for a common goal.

I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss NASA. Sure, they do not have a good racing program in the N.E. but doesn't mean it's out of the question from happening.

[ner88]

Dave
Sorry, but you haven't got a clue.

Ah, the world according to Improvedtouring!

[lateapex911]

Dicks right, we have an embarrassment of riches. At the same time, we have a shortage of resources. And Jerry's right, it's freedom of choice.

And in the end the free market will decide these things.

I live outside NYC on the CT coast. If I draw a circle from my house that is a 5 hour tow, I'm at NHMS in 3.5, WGI in 5 LRP in 1.5, Pocono in 3.5, NJMP in 4 or so. (And then there's Palmer, maybe)

So for me, conflicting event weekends are certainly a decision. But honestly, it's probably irrelevant whether they are on the SAME date, as I'm not super likely to attend both on back to back weekends.

And, yes, it's freedom of choice that a Region hosts an event, and it's my choices as to which one to attend. But, do we have enough racers (a resource to the region) and do we have enough workers (another resource) to support the number of events?

The market will decide that.

As for Region desirability, as a long time NER member, racer, worker and supporter, honestly, the region hosting the event isn't high on my list of priorities when choosing an event. The event (double, single, etc), the track, the date and how it fits my other races and life events, are all much higher priorities. Given the choice of a double at NHMS run by NER (known great events) and a double at Watkins Glen, I'll tow the 3 hours round trip extra to the Glen, unless there are points that I need to get for a championship at stake in NHMS.
I can't speak for all racers, but I'd be surprised that my view wasn't the majority view. I DO think the workers though, are much more region centric. But, they are tempted by the chance to work pro events... everybody has his weak spot, LOL.

In the end Jerry, I think it boils down to the use of the resources available. If the regions can make a go of it, and not burn up the resources, then fine. But I've seen signs that the resources run thin at times. Think Lime Rock and MoHud) It's a tough act to balance, that's for sure, and I know you've got shoes that not many would be able to, or willing to fill!

[StephenB]

Being an NER member for almost 25 years I still don't care which region is hosting the event. I care about car counts and on track competition. This is why I decided not to do the Pro-it this year. And I think the TeamDI pro-it series is by far the best series that I have ever witnessed for IT in the northeast. They truely understand what the drivers like and how to do it! Longer races, big events, fun atmosphere, podiums with awards and pictures, a cool website...ect. they are the goal and what i feel should be the expextations and example for the NARRC. even the NARRC Runoffs (new englands largest event) cant compaire. For me though even with all that... the car counts were low in ITB and I missed racing with all the other regular NARRC competitors. The regions, doing what Greg shows, are hurting car counts and ruining what i enjoy about SCCA in the northeast. I think they ARE lucky others aren't around...

Stephen
Those businesses that don't see their competition are their own competition.

[gran racing]

Dave
Sorry, but you haven't got a clue.

Ah, the world according to Improvedtouring!

You're too much Jerry. Yeah, cause people including myself only live in the it.com world. Get over yourself.

[Greg Amy]

What you're saying is if SNJ wants to run an event, NER should not? Why not? It's called freedom of choice. You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event. And a lot of them are loyal workers.
Jerry, please. Stop taking this personally, and stop dredging out the tired "but we're volunteers and immune from criticism!" card. It's becoming pitiful.

Yes, Jerry, I'm all for "freedom of choice" (and I love America, my mother, General Motors, and apple pie, too). But you can't sit there behind the keyboard and accuse drivers of accusing the regions of "cohorting" against the drivers, when it's patently clear that they're not (much to everyone's detriment). So these regions wants to pretend that they're each acting in a vacuum, as if their customer base is unique, and they want to play these silly little inter-regional power politics -- politics, that no one except the regional administrators give two shakes about. After all, we're not talking about Rocky Mountain and Northeast divisions - divisions separated by thousands of miles - here; these are two regions in the same division!!!

Jerry, are you telling me you're shocked ("shocked", I say!) that entry lists for these two tracks contain many of the same drivers, especially those located within the geographic space between the two tracks? As shocking as it may sound, the answer to your question in regard to what regions should do about weekend conflicts is...YES! yes, they should coordinate. If a region within the same division is hosting an event only a few hours away, it's a damn fine idea for regions to coordinate who should hold a race that weekend! It just makes sense! Is that a surprising answer to you? I sincerely hope not. 'Cause if you guys WOULD get together and coordinate, I think you'll find increased entry numbers, lower risks of financial distress, and happier drivers who won't continue to feel like unwilling pawns in a silly, pointless intra-club rivalry.

Here's the deeper thing though, Jerry: this is a systemic problem, not a problem of an individual person such as yourself. The systemic problem is this silliness of the regional power politics. It's not something that you, Jerry, can resolve on your own, but it is something that you can influence. If the regions keep scheduling events without trying to work together they forfeit the rights to complain about the easily-predicted results, including lower entry turnouts, lower revenue, potential lack of "profit" at some events, complaining drivers, and, catastrophically, potentially bankrupted regions, all done at the expense of one or more regions' success. How, when one - or both! - events may not be financially successful that anyone within the division can call this a "win"? How, when the entries are being split among numerous events, can the entrants feel like the event they chose to attend was worthwhile?

Where's the success or "goodness" here? This results in nothing but the good ole "lose, lose". And if we continue to do so, it will be without empathy - or ignorance - from me.

In the end, just can't fix these systemic problems by offering a regional championship plaque at the end of the year...

GA

[Jeremy Billiel]

Ahh... The roundtable does not need to happen in person as the internet is much more fun.

So there are a lot of correct statements in all of these responses. Here they are in no perticular order.

1. Volunteers due stick to particular regions and will usually work their preferred region first.
2. Regions do talk a lot about the races and who is do what, when.
3. There are still too many events
4. There are too many SCCA regions in the Northeast
5. The politics due come into play often.
6. Its no secret that when regions put two races on the same weekend typically someone loses. Last year it was NJMP
7. Regions try to use series like the NARRC to draw cars and make marginal events profitable.
8. The events that are succesful have NOTHING to do with the region. They have EVERYTHING to do with car counts, track time, fun, uniqueness, etc...
9. The Pro IT was never intented to replace regionals, but it did and the drivers made that clear with their wallets last year.
10. I must be missing something? :shrug:

[Andy Bettencourt]

I think what Jerry was saying was that WORKERS care what Region is hosting an event - because that is effectively their employer for the weekend and each Region does things differently and certain things or certain friends can make the difference in the desire to volunteer.

We as drivers my not care who hosts the event, but we are indeed just half the picture. No drivers, no fun. No workers, no fun.

At the end of the day, we have a ton of events to choose from. That is great. But Regions need to understand (and I think they do) that there are only a certain amount of 'entries' in a given year. If you water down those entries over too many races, nobody wins. In today's day and age, each Region is I am sure very concious of not losing money. But from a drivers standpoint, it will be frustrating is a Regional Official comes on here worried about losing money on an event when it was double-booked with some other event inter-divisionally. I think everyone can understand that.

I like the way it's going, but we can continually improve.

[Andy Bettencourt]

And I think the TeamDI pro-it series is by far the best series that I have ever witnessed for IT in the northeast. They truely understand what the drivers like and how to do it! Longer races, big events, fun atmosphere, podiums with awards and pictures, a cool website...ect. they are the goal and what i feel should be the expextations and example for the NARRC. even the NARRC Runoffs (new englands largest event) cant compaire. For me though even with all that... the car counts were low in ITB and I missed racing with all the other regular NARRC competitors. The regions, doing what Greg shows, are hurting car counts and ruining what i enjoy about SCCA in the northeast. I think they ARE lucky others aren't around...

Stephen
Those businesses that don't see their competition are their own competition.

First, you can NOT compare Pro IT to NARRC (or any other Regional series). Pro IT is an IT and SM series ONLY. They don't have to worry about 7 other run groups etc. It's a great series, inside an event. Pro IT could NOT stand on it's own without everything going on around it. Think about that a little when you hold it up as the goal. It's an AWESOME series, but it is a small fish swimming alongside the big fish.

Second, NASA is a good organization. They cater to a different croud than seems to be up here. We have too many racers and the tracks are too small for them to succeed in their structure. Look at how they run events and you will see it would be hard to fit. The Regions run great events up here...and has been said, we have too many of them. NASA is solid, but not much room for them right now. A real fear is that WHEN we give up events and dates, NASA could grab them. The Regional teams know this and it contributes to their reluctance to relase dates. They ARE thinking big picture too.

RR in the NE is not broken, we just need to strengthen in some spots and losen the grip in some.

[lateapex911]

8. The events that are succesful have NOTHING to do with the region. They have EVERYTHING to do with car counts, track time, fun, uniqueness, etc...


Actually, the Regions DO have a lot to do with that. NER has adopted some great formats and those draw racers. There are some racers who do track time vs entry fee math and decide where to go based on that. So the regions that come up with the best events will have an extra draw.

But it's still only one aspect of the 'where to race decision".

[dickita15]

So for me, conflicting event weekends are certainly a decision. But honestly, it's probably irrelevant whether they are on the SAME date, as I'm not super likely to attend both on back to back weekends.



I think Jake hit on a key point with this. While the NJMP-NHMS conflicts are irritating I do not think the fact that they are on the same weekends or just close make a whole lot of difference to the drivers. The core workers however it does effect as there are a few key skilled people who support both tracks.

There is very little date flexibility with the tracks. You can make small changes some of the time. This year at NHMS there were two changes, at the region’s request August got move 1 week earlier so there was more separation from Cheap date in September, and the movement of our memorial day event to the first week in June on the track’s insistence I believe because they had some who wanted all three days on the holiday.

I am hopeful that next year we can try to move the July Pig event a week either way as that conflict not only with NJMP but the Glen national as well and truthfully that is the bigger problem in my thinking.

NER’s first obligation is to build a series for the drivers who run the series the most. NERRC has good spacing an honestly they need to please the guy from Boston who runs most of the races at NH more that the guy from southern Ct who runs once or twice a year. You want to please everybody but all you can do is the best you can do.

NJMP is an immature track from a scheduling point of view and it will take a few years to figure out what the right level of racing events and what the schedule should look like.

[ner88]

Guys, I don't take it personal.
But, to assume we don't understand or care is wrong.
There is no simple solution, it is a work in progress.

[lateapex911]

Dicks point regarding the workers is probably the biggest issue. I'm not in the inner circle, but, from my view that's the thinnest resource, and much of it is shared by multiple regions. Mattberg will tell you that we have too many white suits at the track...I dunno about that. But I DO know that EVERY race I go to I'm going to see Karen Peterson, or other familiar faces. That's great...I like Karen! But, she and the others have only so much vacation time/patience/money...

I know Jerry and the entire regional staff of NER are well aware of that, and I know the whole issue is like trying to wrestle an octopus with claws into a handbag with no latch, I just hope the regions (et al) aren't overdoing it with the number of races available to us workers and racers.

(It would be interesting to look back say to 97 and see what the regional schedule was...how many events and where.)

[ner88]

Heck, we only need to look back as far as 2007, pre NJMP.
When Palmer is ready the situation only gets more complicated.
These are all new problems to us but with a little patients and time we will work thru them.
Last weekend at the Round table the eight racing regions spent all day Saturday working out the Nediv National racing program. Not to many left happy but in the end everyone gave a little(ok some more than others) to develope a plan that was best for the division.