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TAC
01-04-2010, 09:11 PM
O.K. gang,

Butch Kummer contacted me to let me know GTA will not be returning for the 2010 I.T.SPEC*tacular. With GTA gone I'm adding a Formula race group back in the mix. I'm also looking at the I.T. class pairings and I'm not sure if its better to run ITR in with ITS, ITB or go back to something similar to 2008 where we had ITR in with ITE, AS, TCC.

Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)

ITA, IT7, ITC
ITS, ITB
ITR, ITE, STU, STO, AS
SRF, EP, FP, HP
SM, SSM
CFF, FF, CFC, FC, FE

Your suggestions are most welcome.

Todd

eprodrx7
01-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Todd,
What do you think of adding Sports Racers in the formula group?

dj10
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
O.K. gang,

Butch Kummer contacted me to let me know GTA will not be returning for the 2010 I.T.SPEC*tacular. With GTA gone I'm adding a Formula race group back in the mix. I'm also looking at the I.T. class pairings and I'm not sure if its better to run ITR in with ITS, ITB or go back to something similar to 2008 where we had ITR in with ITE, AS, TCC.

Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)

ITA, IT7, ITC
ITS, ITB
ITR, ITE, STU, STO, AS
SRF, EP, FP, HP
SM, SSM
CFF, FF, CFC, FC, FE

Your suggestions are most welcome.

Todd

Damn Todd, can't you stick AS somewhere else? Who can read my mind right now?:)

TAC
01-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Todd,
What do you think of adding Sports Racers in the formula group?

I think there may be too large a gap between CFF and C's and D's. S2000's are close and may work.

TAC
01-05-2010, 08:39 PM
Damn Todd, can't you stick AS somewhere else? Who can read my mind right now?:)

Nothings in stone yet. Any suggestions to a better mix with ITR, ITE, STO and STU?

dhardison
01-06-2010, 08:37 AM
Nothings in stone yet. Any suggestions to a better mix with ITR, ITE, STO and STU?

How about:

ITS, ITB, ITR, STU
ITE, STO, AS

spnkzss
01-06-2010, 09:25 AM
How about some of the non IT groups race between the IT groups. I'd love to watch ITB after I get out of ITA. :shrug:

jumbojimbo
01-06-2010, 12:28 PM
Hold on cowboy. "( * not actual race group order!)"

I think he just put the groups in order of quality for now...

R2 Racing
01-06-2010, 12:29 PM
How about some of the non IT groups race between the IT groups. I'd love to watch ITB after I get out of ITA. :shrug:


Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)

Rob, we're not getting into scheduling arguements quite yet.:D

To refresh everyone's memory, last year there was 6 run groups too, but with these pairings:
1 - ITA, IT7
2 - SRF, EP, FP, HP
3 - ITS, ITB
4 - AS, GTA, ITE, STO
5 - ITR, ITC, STU
6 - SM, SSM

I think everyone was pretty happy with that. I for one thought those groupings worked out great. Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything I like. I'd consider putting AS/ITE/STO/STU together and ITR/ITS/ITB together, but I just don't see the ITR & ITS guys not screwing up eachothers races. Then of course the STU guys will want to be in a slower class too. Either way, we need to ensure good racing that isn't being overly screwed with by overlap between classes, effectively dorking up both classes race. That lessens the quality of the event, and the allure it has for people to attend it. Start doing that, and it slowly just turns back into any regular old regional as more classes get added and more overlap in run groups happen. I think adding a wing group is already too much a step in that direction for me to be comfortable with. I'll have to think on it to see if I can come up with anything better.


edit: Todd - Can you refresh my memory on a couple of things? What was the length of each of the four sessions per group? I can't find last years supps to look it up. I believe it was something like 20 minute qualifying, 20 lap race, 10 lap race, & 20 lap race. Is that correct? Also, can you tell me about when the last checkered flag flew each day? Thanks.

Greg Amy
01-06-2010, 12:46 PM
Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group...
Therein lies the rub. It's actually pretty simple: by adding in a winged/Formula group that did not exist before, you've added a whole race group. There's just no way around that.

So with this action the only way you can do it is to take last year's groups, remove GTA, maybe pull out SRF if they'll run with Wingy-Dingies, and find a way to fit last year's six groups into only five. Or, find a way to schedule seven groups total.

No matter how you slice it...

GA

spnkzss
01-06-2010, 12:56 PM
Hold on cowboy. "( * not actual race group order!)"

I think he just put the groups in order of quality for now...

DOH!! :birra:

TAC
01-06-2010, 06:35 PM
Rob, we're not getting into scheduling arguements quite yet.:D

To refresh everyone's memory, last year there was 6 run groups too, but with these pairings:
1 - ITA, IT7
2 - SRF, EP, FP, HP
3 - ITS, ITB
4 - AS, GTA, ITE, STO
5 - ITR, ITC, STU
6 - SM, SSM

I think everyone was pretty happy with that. I for one thought those groupings worked out great. Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything I like. I'd consider putting AS/ITE/STO/STU together and ITR/ITS/ITB together, but I just don't see the ITR & ITS guys not screwing up eachothers races. Then of course the STU guys will want to be in a slower class too. Either way, we need to ensure good racing that isn't being overly screwed with by overlap between classes, effectively dorking up both classes race. That lessens the quality of the event, and the allure it has for people to attend it. Start doing that, and it slowly just turns back into any regular old regional as more classes get added and more overlap in run groups happen. I think adding a wing group is already too much a step in that direction for me to be comfortable with. I'll have to think on it to see if I can come up with anything better.


edit: Todd - Can you refresh my memory on a couple of things? What was the length of each of the four sessions per group? I can't find last years supps to look it up. I believe it was something like 20 minute qualifying, 20 lap race, 10 lap race, & 20 lap race. Is that correct? Also, can you tell me about when the last checkered flag flew each day? Thanks.


Stepping back to the 2008 event:

Group 1 ITB, ITS
Group 2 SRF
Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 4 SM, SSM
Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

Group 5 had (6) ITR, (8) ITE, (7) TCC and (1) AS. No incidents and no complaints from what I remember. The reason we moved classes around last year was because of the GTA class. Without them I moved things back the way they were in 2008. Example of one race:
...................TCC 1:36.804
.................. ITE 1:39.396,
...................ITR 1:44.104,
................... AS 1:49.197.

example one race 2009
STU 1.39.882
STO 1:34.999

Naturally since STU and STO are national classes we could remove them and add TCC back in the mix.

And yes Kevin you are correct in your sessions and laps. Checker flag was around 4:35 pm each day with O.T. kicking in at 5:00 pm.

Todd

RedMisted
01-07-2010, 12:09 AM
I'd be comfortable with either the 2008 or 2009 grouping for ITR. I thought both years we had good separation, little to no intermingling of the various categories.

I'm really not enamored with the idea of running ITR with ITS.

R2 Racing
01-07-2010, 12:37 AM
So the idea is to basically do the same thing as 2008, but add E/F/HP in with SRF (like 2009), and make the "big bore" group ITR/ITE/TCC/AS. I was going to ask about removing STO & STU since they're both now Runoffs eligable, but didn't know if it mattered much. If someone has one of those cars, and wants to run that weekend, they can pretty easily run ITE (or TCC if eligable) just the same. Either way, they'll still be in the same run group.

I guess I don't have a big problem with that, but then again my class wouldn't be getting affected much (if I run ITA).

Racerlinn
01-07-2010, 11:58 AM
This:
Group 1 ITB, ITS
Group 2 SRF, EP, FP, HP
Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 4 SM, SSM
Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

(hopefully Group 2 doesn't oil the track down too much... :) )
But, there were several double-dipper SM's, so having them back to back is tough on those guys sharing cars. Although it was amusing watching the driver swaps in grid.

On edit - is TCC even interested in running? If not, that makes the Group 5 even better with just ITR, ITE, and AS. Maybe throw STO and STU back in there?

TAC
01-07-2010, 04:13 PM
This:
Group 1 ITB, ITS
Group 2 SRF, EP, FP, HP
Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 4 SM, SSM
Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

(hopefully Group 2 doesn't oil the track down too much... :) )
But, there were several double-dipper SM's, so having them back to back is tough on those guys sharing cars. Although it was amusing watching the driver swaps in grid.

On edit - is TCC even interested in running? If not, that makes the Group 5 even better with just ITR, ITE, and AS. Maybe throw STO and STU back in there?

Steve,

This isn't the group order just the way they came out of my head. I was threatened with death by the stewards if I put SM/SSM last again this year since they all missed dinner 2 nights in a row sorting out protests and incident reports. :rolleyes: I plan to put them in as group #2. The rest is still up for debate.

Thank you all for the input.

Todd

R2 Racing
01-08-2010, 01:24 AM
Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.


(For the record, ITA was in Group 1 last year, and that's not conducive to our Saturday night drinking. So I hereby request, on behalf of the ITA community, to not put us in Group 1 two years in a row.:D)

Greg Amy
01-08-2010, 07:57 AM
While I don't condone the "me first" with a request to not be first (though I fully understand and agree with it), I do agree that anyone that bitches about how long their tech inspection takes should be the first in line in the AM. Works out for everyone.

If they bitch about it being too early, tell 'em to buy a Honda. ;)

spnkzss
01-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.


(For the record, ITA was in Group 1 last year, and that's not conducive to our Saturday night drinking. So I hereby request, on behalf of the ITA community, to not put us in Group 1 two years in a row.:D)
I figured since I'm going to bee a noob I couldn't request that. :birra:

Racerlinn
01-08-2010, 12:50 PM
I will :)
My proposed schedule (which is worth less than $0.02):

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

Allows double dipping Miatii, makes Miata drivers and stewards happy (that was an ugly deal last year with them), and lets the majority of IT folks see each others race groups.
Sunday morning in the rain this year was interesting, and I tried to be good and actually went to bed "early" :toast:

shwah
01-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.
Yeah ITB was group 1 in 08, it was early. We were group 1 at ARRC that year too.

Wherever the SM/SMM end up, note that mid pack SM car and front pack ITB cars run similar times different ways...

TAC
02-09-2010, 09:33 PM
I will :)
My proposed schedule (which is worth less than $0.02):

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

Allows double dipping Miatii, makes Miata drivers and stewards happy (that was an ugly deal last year with them), and lets the majority of IT folks see each others race groups.
Sunday morning in the rain this year was interesting, and I tried to be good and actually went to bed "early" :toast:

O.K., first race meeting is over and the classes are set. So after a long pause I can say I like this order. Though I may switch group 5 and 6 since the formula group was last in 2008. Only other issue is whether the SM/SSM group will then be ruining steward lunch time both days. I guess that's better than goin' home time both evenings.

R2 Racing
02-09-2010, 11:24 PM
So is this the grouping then?

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

I'm ok with that.

TAC
02-10-2010, 08:51 AM
So is this the grouping then?

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

I'm ok with that.

I'm thinking more like this.

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM
Group 6 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU

jumbojimbo
02-10-2010, 10:32 AM
One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

I know we're trying to maximize our income, but the number of double dippers is very low.

Why don't we charge a more nominal fee like $125? Sure, profit is less per car but wouldn't a ridiculously low entry fee encourage a double dipping?

My thought is that the more cars who double dip then that pads the field. And what increases car count more than anything else? Car count. People want to race in races with big fields. Even mid-level drivers want someone to race against. So if you can get more people to double dip and this causes even 1 or 2 extra regular entries, then you've got win-win all around.

Another scenario: STU. I've thought about running STU just for the track time. But it's too expensive at the full price. If the price were $125, I might be able to convince a couple of other ITC guys to run. We wouldn't be running to win STU, but all we care about is racing each other anyway. As long as we stay out of everyone else way, we get more track time, club makes more money.

R2 Racing
02-10-2010, 11:54 AM
I'd double-dip too and bring our new ITB '92 Civic DX in addition to my ITA Integra if I knew I wasn't paying 2x entry fees. I really want to see what that ITB car will do at Mid Ohio.

924Guy
02-10-2010, 04:14 PM
I'd double-dip too and bring our new ITB '92 Civic DX in addition to my ITA Integra if I knew I wasn't paying 2x entry fees. I really want to see what that ITB car will do at Mid Ohio.

Prolly a 1:47.2. :023:

TAC
02-10-2010, 09:11 PM
One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

I know we're trying to maximize our income, but the number of double dippers is very low.

Why don't we charge a more nominal fee like $125? Sure, profit is less per car but wouldn't a ridiculously low entry fee encourage a double dipping?

My thought is that the more cars who double dip then that pads the field. And what increases car count more than anything else? Car count. People want to race in races with big fields. Even mid-level drivers want someone to race against. So if you can get more people to double dip and this causes even 1 or 2 extra regular entries, then you've got win-win all around.

Another scenario: STU. I've thought about running STU just for the track time. But it's too expensive at the full price. If the price were $125, I might be able to convince a couple of other ITC guys to run. We wouldn't be running to win STU, but all we care about is racing each other anyway. As long as we stay out of everyone else way, we get more track time, club makes more money.

Sounds like a good idea. My only concern would be keeping the refunds straight.

To clarify it would have to be the same car/ same driver dbl. dipping in two classes. Correct?

jumbojimbo
02-10-2010, 11:20 PM
Sounds like a good idea. My only concern would be keeping the refunds straight.

To clarify it would have to be the same car/ same driver dbl. dipping in two classes. Correct?

Correct, that is what I was thinking of. A straight double dip.

RacerBill
02-10-2010, 11:27 PM
Looks good to me, Todd. I can live with Group 2 two years in a row!!!!!!! BTW, what course are we running this year?

Butch Kummer
02-11-2010, 10:52 AM
One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

My understanding of the situation:

The sanction fee (a base fee then $15 per entry over 150 entries) is per race entry, so we have to pay twice for double-dippers. We still have to pay the same amount for track rental, ambulance, wrecker, etc., so there's no cost savings there to the host region.

The insurance is $29.50 per car for the weekend, so double-dipping gives us a break there. Ostensibly a double-dipper still consumes one entry's worth of alcohol & food at the Saturday social, so there COULD be a savings there as well.

At the 2009 ARRC by GRM we offered a discount of $25-$50 to people running multiple races (Sprints, Three Hour, Bonus race) with the same car, except for the Pro-IT. Since half the Pro-IT entry fee is returned to the racers in the form of prize money, we don't offer Pro-IT combination discounts. We did not offer "true" double-dipping discounts (ITA & SM, for instance), but I'll have to think about it. The numbers don't support a $100+ discount, however, particularly since the driver gets the benefit of more track time and/or being able to split travel costs with a buddy.

jumbojimbo
02-11-2010, 12:07 PM
I'm not sure you're getting my logic, Butch. First, remember I'm talking about only pure double dippers, SM/ITA, ITx/STU. Not shared cars. And I'm really only talking about normal regional races here, not ARRC, Pro races, etc.

Your note on insurance per "car" wasn't clear, so worst case I'll assume that the incremental cost to the region of a double dipper is Sanction+Insurance~$50. That should cover the occasional extra trophy too. Let's assume someone who drives two sessions won't eat more food at the party and might even be too tired to drink as much beer.

Track, workers, party, etc are fixed costs, these don't change whether SM#27 runs an extra session as ITA#27 or not. And the driver has already made a contribution to the fixed costs with his first entry. I don't see an incremental cost whether workers are dealing with 20 cars in a race or 23. I'd actually argue the workers would enjoy having a few extra cars.

What I am doing is challenging the notion that the price we should charge is the full "value" of the session and then discount it a bit to try to encourage double dipping. I am saying that this does not work and does not encourage double dipping. Drivers don't see double dipping as providing a full entry of value and they don't need the extra track time.

What's the downside to charging a much lower price for DD? Lost revenue. How many double dippers do we normally see? 3? So let's say that is $1,000 of entry. Now if you charge $125 and get just those same three dd's then you've lost $600.

What's the upside of a much lower price? Potentially more entries and potentially more revenue. I could be wrong but I don't think you'll get the same 3 dd entries at a much lower price. I think you'll get more. Enough to make up the difference in price? Maybe, maybe not. But even if you get only 5 or 6 dd entries instead of 3, now your lost revenue is very very small. And, you now have more entries.

Which brings me back to why I think it's worth the relatively low risk. The entry multiplication effect (EMP). I strongly believe that what drives higher entry numbers is higher entry numbers. We all see it, when a race has 1 or 2 entries, people are reluctant to enter. But when you see 4 or 5 entries, interest builds and it becomes 6 or 7 entries. So in addition to getting more double dippers, I think you'll get more regular entries too. Which has upside revenue potential in addition to just the joy of seeing more cars on track.

ITFest isn't the perfect event for this idea. ITFest already uses the EMP to drive entries. ITFest gets big entries because everyone knows it will have big entries, the EMP effect in action. A better example is a little regional race with 4 ITA cars. Who wants to tow up for that? But make that 6 ITA cars and maybe it's worthwhile.

That's all I got, anything else and I'm in danger of :dead_horse:

Butch Kummer
02-11-2010, 04:37 PM
Jim,

I know this is going to scare a lot of people out there and may well get me ex-communicated by the SCCA traditionalists, but I hadn't thought of it that way. i.e. - your idea has merit and it wasn't even mine! :rolleyes:

The negative is that guys who d-d get more track time per dollar spent, which could be viewed a "unfair" to those that CAN'T d-d because of the type of car they drive. The question, of course, is "Who cares?" If the idea generates more entries then (a) the racing is better and (b) the fixed costs are split over an even larger amount of money.

Let me think about it some more, but I'm not sure there's a negative even for the high EMP events like the IT-Fest and the ARRC. We'd have to give Registration an easy way to keep up with it, but that's surmountable.

Oh yes, and "thank you for your input." :D

TAC
02-11-2010, 06:18 PM
Looks good to me, Todd. I can live with Group 2 two years in a row!!!!!!! BTW, what course are we running this year?

Bill,

That would be the Club Course this year.

Jim,

Talked to the Registrar today. She thinks the D-D is doable without too much hassle. I'll start crunching numbers. :023:

TAC
03-01-2010, 12:01 AM
For those of you interested in running in two classes with your car at the I.T.SPEC*tacular we will be doing a second entry discount. It should be in the $130 to $150 range. My only concern is having a mass Miata attack on the ITA race. Other than that it is a go. I'll have all the pricing set by next week. In other news the Garage pricing will be as follows. $60 for a single door and $120 for the two door. We can set up the sandbox again if you guys are interested?

Todd

TAC
03-18-2010, 08:51 AM
I thought I'd Update everyone on the prices for the weekend. Entry for 1 driver, 2 days went up $10 and I had to raise the garages up $10. Its the best I could do since all the prices went up at Mid Ohio. But on the bright side we did add the double dip feature for those of you who want to try out a second class and we are an official GLDivision Champ Series event.

July 30th PDX
Member................$210
Non-Member............$225
Instructor Driving....$50
Evening Test and Tune.$150

Race Weekend
Garages
1 door....$60
2 door....$120

Race Entry
1 driver, 2 days...$335
Run a second class.$125 example SM/ITA
1 driver,1 day.....$275
2 days, 2 drivers, 1 car....$375

Registration should be open 5/28/2010

Best Regards,

Todd

RacerBill
03-18-2010, 12:19 PM
Todd: quick question, when you say 'run a second class', does that mean run the same car in a second class or can the same driver run two different cars in different classes (and run groups)?

Thanks.

TAC
03-18-2010, 01:33 PM
Todd: quick question, when you say 'run a second class', does that mean run the same car in a second class or can the same driver run two different cars in different classes (and run groups)?

Thanks.

Its based off of the $335 entry. 1 driver, 1 car both days.

Todd

dj10
03-18-2010, 03:30 PM
Based on the 1 driver, 1 car, both days, how much track time will you get for that? Good to mention for a selling point Todd.

TAC
03-18-2010, 04:38 PM
Good point Dan!

1 driver, 1 car, 2 days would be 1 hr. 50 minutes. So if you need even more time on the track the extra $125 would get you an additional 1 hr. 50 minutes. Grand total would be a whopping 3 hrs. 40 minutes on track. :023:

jhooten
03-18-2010, 06:03 PM
Just a thought, since IT cars can run in STU I would consider not grouping STU in any group with IT. That would allow Two drivers to enter the same car in different groups giving you a potential bump in entries.

dhardison
03-18-2010, 07:23 PM
Just a thought, since IT cars can run in STU I would consider not grouping STU in any group with IT. That would allow Two drivers to enter the same car in different groups giving you a potential bump in entries.

I agree! I'd love to run both ITE and STU, but since they're in the same run group that makes it a bit difficult. :)

RacerBill
03-18-2010, 10:25 PM
Dan: You want to run ITC, ITE and STU??????????????

dhardison
03-19-2010, 07:12 AM
Dan: You want to run ITC, ITE and STU??????????????

No, just ITE & STU. My car's not classed in ITC.

TAC
03-19-2010, 07:31 AM
No, just ITE & STU. My car's not classed in ITC.

I think Bill has you confused with the ITC Hardison that posts also. :rolleyes:

RacerBill
03-19-2010, 10:13 PM
Yeah, my bad. But I have been really running the numbers for the double dip - would be worth running in group six.

TAC
05-12-2010, 08:47 PM
Hi everyone,

First of all for those of you that have received your June issue of Grassroots Mag. you'll notice Mr. Steve Lynn leading the pack in the photo provided with our I.T.SPEC*tacular article. I didn't know who the other cars belong to but it made a neat image for the article. :023: Thanks to Scott Lear for all the support!

Tire vendors this year will be

Hoosier Midwest: Contact [email protected] for pre-order.

Goodyear Tire: Competition West. Contact Mike Knox, [email protected]

Race planning is ahead of schedule this year so we will be opening up on-line registration on the 18th of May. I know a lot of drivers are involved with various races around Memorial day so just a reminder that you can register on-line without paying immediately. If you do plan on getting a garage I would not hesitate to get your order in early.

I still have a couple of things to run by the BoD next Tuesday so stay tuned for some big news in preparation for the 2011 25th anniversary Bash. Planning is already underway, with a newly designed logo and hopefully SCCA National backing.:D

Todd

924Guy
05-13-2010, 09:21 AM
So, what group is DSR in? ;)

TAC
05-13-2010, 05:29 PM
So, what group is DSR in? ;)

Just put a SRF body on it. Sandbag so you don't end up in impound. No one will look under the body work. :p

924Guy
05-14-2010, 07:44 AM
Just put a SRF body on it. Sandbag so you don't end up in impound. No one will look under the body work. :p

LOL!

I'll see if my SRF neighbor can loan one... ;)

lateapex911
05-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Heck with what those bodies weigh, you might be running SRF times anyway!