2010 GCR now available

[Dave Gomberg]

The new GCR is at http://cms.scca.com/documents/Club%20Forms/2010%20Tech%20Forms/2010%20GCR-January.pdf

The Sporting Regulations (front of the book) have been rewritten and reorganized. For those of you who are stewards, paddock lawyers or tech folks, you will need to figure out where certain things went.

Dave

[BruceG]

Thanks for the update, Dave!!

[mbuskuhl]

"SCCA Club Racing" decal replaced with new required "SafeRacer SCCA National Racing Series" decal effective 3/1/2010 for National races, optional for Regional.

Page 75/76

[Greg Amy]

Double-U. Tee. Eff.

I wonder how much is SCCA paying National competitors to run the kickback advertising stickers on cars...?

And I thought this club hit the bottom of the barrel years ago...simply never ceases to amaze me...adding another vendor to the no-fly list...

[tom91ita]

i would hope that those stickers are now free for the National cars.

[dickita15]

Lighten up. The national office sold this contingency deal. Some cash for the club, contingency moneys paid to drivers by national points and yes the required stickers are supposed to be free.
I do not think it is a bad thing that Topeka found a series sponsor for national racing.

[Greg Amy]

Lighten up.
??? Is that response intended to do just the opposite?

The national office sold this contingency deal. Some cash for the club, contingency moneys paid to drivers by national points and yes the required stickers are supposed to be free. I do not think it is a bad thing that Topeka found a series sponsor for national racing.So, where's the details on this alleged "contingency" program? How much is Topeka getting for this program? How are the racers themselves (you know, the ones actually paying for all these races?) going to benefit by mandated Club-sponsor stickers on the sides of their cars?

Sorry, Dick, this direction may not bother you, but it certainly does me.

GA

[Dave Gomberg]

The deal came together very recently (discussions started at PRI earlier this month). The language and the figure showing the new sticker went into the new GCR literally a few days before it was released on Monday. Although the basic outlines of the program were settled, there were still details being worked out. The SafeRacer folks have posted on a few other forums that they will be putting out a press release as soon as they can (possibly today or tomorrow). So, yeah, lighten up, hold your fire until you see the details (which I don't know, so please don't ask me). If you are still unhappy, then complain to your director.

Dave

[gran racing]

I can see this as a thought to raise money for the club, but can also see the other side. While I'm not fortunate enough to have a sponsor or own a business that is in competition with SafeRacer, I can see others that do having a big problem with this.

Is this advertising opportunity also open for other businesses? What is the cost?

[dickita15]

Greg,
I applaud your cautious nature. I understand that this deal came together quickly after the PRI show and I believe the full details will be unveiled at the national convention at the end of January. It is unfortunate that the timing of the 2010 GCR release scooped the official announcement.
I do not have every detail but the national office was able to find a title sponsor for the national racing series. The club will get some sponsorship money, national racers will get some contingency money. Racers running National races will now have to run the series sticker which I am told are free in place of the previously requires Club Racing sticker that we had to pay for. Regional racers may run either the national series sticker that is free or the club racing sticker which they may still buy.
I do not see the problem. Is it not a good thing that SCCA was able to sell a title sponsorship for the national racing series?

[Greg Amy]

Is it not a good thing that SCCA was able to sell a title sponsorship for the national racing series?
Possibly.

Ok, Dick and Dave, I'll hold my fire until we see the details. As we know, that's where the devil is...but at first glance, I have two issues with series sponsorship in amateur Club Racing: it's mandatory and it intermixes the sponsor with the sanctioning body.

On the first point, no matter how this is detailed, it's not "contingency sponsorship". Contingency sponsorship is an optional system where someone will pay a racer contingent upon their finishing results and their running the sponsors decal(s). The key difference here is that contingency sponsorship is optional. What if you choose not to support the sponsor, either that you're confident you won't do well enough to take advantage of the program, you don't like the sponsor, you have a competing sponsor, or you simply don't want to put a sticker on your car? Well, regardless of the reason, you can choose to not put that sticker on the car and choose not to accept the reward. I personally will never put an advertising sticker on my car unless I have something to gain, and in some cases I've consciously chosen to forego potential contingency sponsorship because of disagreements with the company (do not infer this to mean I have an issue with this specific sponsor; I do not).

But with a series sponsor, you do not have that option. These decals - and it's "sponsorship" - are mandatory, whether you can benefit from it or not.

Further, when one accepts series sponsorship and mandates advertising on all cars, it is incumbent upon the sanctioning body to ensure that all competitors benefit from the sponsorship, not just those fortunate enough to do well. Once you accept series sponsorship it cannot be divided out based on results, especially in non-professional club racing; with mandated sponsorship support comes mandated racer support. You force me to run a sponsor decal, I damn sure better be getting something in return, even if I wreck out on the first lap.

Finally, when one intermixes a sanctioning body with a series sponsor, lots of ugly things can happen. Look what's happened to professional motorsports and series sponsors, not to mention its effects on other sports. I'm not breaking out the black helicopters here, but who's to say what this deal really entails? What kind of deals did it take for the Club to make such a sea change? Again, I'm not saying that anything is happening - I really doubt it, especially this early in the game; after all, most things do start with good intentions - I'm just saying that there's a distinct potential for apparent improprieties, certainly the more intermixed the Club gets into these kind of deals.

I suggest my concerns really come down to the mandate and the decal. Had Topeka spent this effort to gain such a series sponsor and one, made it truly a contingency sponsorship (i.e., made it optional) and two, did not provide the appearance of potential impropriety with the inbreeding of the mandatory Club decals with the sponsor (i.e., made a separate decal for it) then I'd probably be right up there applauding the idea and gladly slapping those decals on my car when I run Nationals. But as it stands now, my hackles are raised, watching for the devil's shoe to drop, for the opportunity to say "I done tole ya so"... :shrug:

GA


* Are we really claiming one of the big advantages of this program is that someone gets the three decals for free instead of - what? - $3 each, especially when the vast majority of racers are already running the Club decals that they already had to buy...? C'mon, we can do better than that...

** I suspect this should be a separate topic. If it goes too much further I'll split these posts out.

[tom91ita]

Dick clarified this issue for me below and this is no longer a concern of mine. the mods can feel free to delete if they desire.

the only reason i am leaving it is if someone else had the same basic thought/question.


the part that bugs me (but i work near an airport with the occasional helicopter flybys) is that two "odd" things just happened;


Against the recommendation of the CRB, the BOD has mandated the use of H&NR in 2012.
We now have a series sponsor with mandated stickers that just happens to sell H&NRs.
now i don't know if it is a sweetheart deal or not but i don't like it coming out in the same GCR.

and i have bought gear from saferacer and found them to be competitive and easy to deal with so i really have no bone to pick with them.

[dickita15]

Ok, Dick and Dave, I'll hold my fire until we see the details.
GA



Thank you Greg, that is all anyone could ask.

[dickita15]

the part that bugs me (but i work near an airport with the occasional helicopter flybys) is that two "odd" things just happened;


Against the recommendation of the CRB, the BOD has mandated the use of H&NR in 2012.
We now have a series sponsor with mandated stickers that just happens to sell H&NRs.
now i don't know if it is a sweetheart deal or not but i don't like it coming out in the same GCR.

and i have bought gear from saferacer and found them to be competitive and easy to deal with so i really have no bone to pick with them.

Uh, Tom no.
My first thought was that that thought is out there, but then I know more about this than someone seeing it all as the GCR came out so I will actually give you a serious answer. The H&N vote was done in the first week in December by the 2009 BOD. The series sponsorship deal came out of meetings at the PTI show the next week and was brought to the 2009 BOD’s attention on December 22nd. So I can say no the sponsorship proposal had absolutely no impact on the considerable discussion the BOD had on H&N.

[zchris]

Greg, I'm with you on this issue. Nobody asked me if I wanted to advertise for these poeple. And you know that whatever I or anyone else will personally get will be insignificant in relation to what national racing costs overall. And could certainly cost me sponsors that sell competing products. I to have purchased from Saferacer and had a pleasant experience. They will no longer be on my speed dial when I need parts. Can you imagine if I went up to the Goodyear guys at the end of a race to claim tires for a win and had a Hoosier patch under the Goodyear patch on my suit. Do you think Goodyear would hand over that contingency prize. I don't think so. Should I be asked to risk offending my engine sponsor who sells safety equipment also. It was clearly not well thought out. But I will listen to the offer before I post anymore outraged posts.
Chris Howard

[tom91ita]

Dick,

thanks for the clarification. i trust you in this matter.

tom

[Knestis]

Dick clarified this issue for me below and this is no longer a concern of mine. the mods can feel free to delete if they desire.

the only reason i am leaving it is if someone else had the same basic thought/question.

...and HANS is prominently displayed in the GCR in what we can only presume is a paid advertisement. Or is it?

That's the kind of issue that commercialization brings with it. See also, "NASA spec tires."

K

[seckerich]

Kirk advertising is available to anyone for the GCR and series sponsorship. I have been in enough meetings with some of these guys to have a little more trust in their motives. Everything they do is not bad. We were offered SEDIV sponsorship by a prominent racing business at the mid year meeting and declined until we could set a policy about what they paid and what they would get in return. We wanted to have a set policy that was fair and open to any potential sponsor if it would benefit everyone in SEDIV equally. Saferacer does not have a corner on the HNR by any means so that is quite a stretch to play connect the dots. They had a full page on the back of last years GCR and just decided to step it up this year. Word is they were not prepared for this release yet and will have one out this next week. Lets see what they have before we go off half cocked. It is a small wonder anyone would spend money with us when they get attacked for helping. :rolleyes:

[Knestis]

Oh, that wasn't an attack by any means, Steve. Consider it a plea for consistency and transparency - not attributes that the Club management has impressed me with in the past few months.

K

[Marcus Miller]

Oh, that wasn't an attack by any means, Steve. Consider it a plea for consistency and transparency - not attributes that the Club management has impressed me with in the past few months.

K

I'm not sure Steve was necesarily referring to your posts, with the attack commentary, K.

Thank you Saferacer for stepping up your involvement with Club Racing :smilie_pokal:

Marcus, who couldn't possibly conceive the amount of sniveling and vile hurled Charlie and Saferacer's direction over their increased sponsorship this year. Man, some folks will whine about everything.

[Knestis]

I... Man, some folks will whine about everything.

...and I guess I'm not able to explain my concern.

Old and jaded,

Kirk

[Marcus Miller]

Just to make sure; that wasn't pointed your direction :)
I totally agree with the concenrs over club leadership and some very questionable dceision making; I don't understand the venom hurled Carlie's direction... as a businessman, and part time competitor he saw value in doing it; if the other side will play ball... :shrug:

back to the garage :eclipsee_steering:

[zchris]

Here it is

TOPEKA, Kan. (Dec. 31, 2009) – Sports Car Club of America announced a multi-year partnership in which SafeRacer will become the title sponsor of the National Club Racing program. The approximately 70-race National program will be referred to as the “SafeRacer SCCA National Racing Series” beginning in 2010.

“SafeRacer has supported the Club Racing program in various ways over the last several years and we’re excited that it has expanded its support to become the sponsor of the National Racing Series,” SCCA President and CEO Jeff Dahnert said. “One of our main focuses this year will be on developing partnerships that not only support SCCA’s business, but its participant members as well.”

As part of the sponsorship, SafeRacer will provide $15,000 in certificates to be distributed to class Champions in the nationwide point championship. The nationwide point Championship combines divisional Championship points and bonus points for the number of racers a driver finishes ahead of to crown one overall point Champion each year.

In addition, SafeRacer will offer direct product discounts to participants in the SafeRacer SCCA National Racing Series.

“We are a company made up of SCCA racers and we’re excited to be able to support our fellow racers with the SafeRacer SCCA National Racing Series,” SafeRacer CEO Charlie James said.

Racers competing in Nationally-sanctioned events will replace the traditional “SCCA Club Racing” decal with the new SafeRacer SCCA National Racing Series decal as part of the program. Decals will be available soon at no charge for the first set and will be required for all races after March 1, 2010.

[RacerBill]

So now we are going to have Triple Crown Champions, Super Sweep Champions, nationwide points Champions and Runoffs Champions?

[IPRESS]

This is my third attempt on this one. I am doing my best not to brow beat the living S out of the whole lot!
Running a dang, free sticker, that is a very small advertisment for a very good sponsor is not the huge deal you guys are trying to make it into. If it had been me being the sponsor I would have wanted company name a lot more prominent than those little stickers.
Baker should have come up with some sort of idea like this for y'alls pet HNR and this board would be singing SCCA's praises.
First off Greg, don't worry about something being crooked, Charlie & Mike at Saferacer are about as honest as they come. No ones palms are being greased. We need every promotional and sponsor dollar we can find in this day and age.

This attitude from the "nath" makes me think Bert Levy was writing about real modern day folks in his books.

[924Guy]

Maybe I just haven't been around long enough to be cynical; personally, I think it's great that a sponsor is willing to step up, recognize, and provide such support for our little hobby.

[RacerBill]

I think that Mac has it right, that we may be reading between the lines where there is really no writing. And it is great that someone has stepped up to help our sport.

But I also remember the contention between sponsors such as CocaCola and Pepsi at NASCAR events and even (IIRR) AT&T and NEXTEL/SPRINT at NASCAR events. However, we are not talking about megabucks here (yeah, even a couple of hundred bucks is mega bucks to me), and we should wait and hear from some other suppliers (Racer Parts Wholesale, Pegasus, Continental, etc) and see what their take is. Do any of us receive sponsorship from any of these vendors?

I, myself, tend to shop around at different vendors, purchasing needed items from different sources (some vendors carry items that others do not). But where I have a choice, I purchase from Continental Motorsports. My reasoning is that their selection is good, and their prices are fair. But the most compelling reason is because they stepped up and took over the stand at Mid-Ohio when the previous vendor decided to leave. Jim and Jeannie are there for us, the racers, just about every weekend. More than once, I have been able to get a needed part that kept me in the game that weekend.

I hope that my fellow racers step up and recognise the support that SafeRacer is showing SCCA (that's us!).

[gran racing]

Mac, I don't think any of us are saying anything negative about SafeRacer as it relates to this deal. At the same time, IMO it goes back to what Greg said before. There's a difference between a contingency and this type of sponsorship in CLUB racing. Pro racing is another thing. The $15K in rewards given out, I personally would have rather it be done in another manner than based on winnings (if done as a series sponsor). Let some of the back to mid pack drivers benefit from this as much as the front runners. Heck, in most cases they probably need the help more anyway.


we should wait and hear from some other suppliers (Racer Parts Wholesale, Pegasus, Continental, etc) and see what their take is. Do any of us receive sponsorship from any of these vendors?

First thing that came to mind was SPS. (The company that runs the SCCA merchandise website.)

[dickita15]

From the press release:
“As part of the sponsorship, SafeRacer will provide $15,000 in certificates to be distributed to class Champions in the nationwide point championship.”
I wish I could say more, unfortunately I have a responsibility now not to discuss contract terms but the word part here is very important. I think it is great that a company like Saferacer has stepped up to become a title sponsor for the National racing series and in doing so will hopefully help in the effort to reclaim some of the luster it so richly deserves. I need belts this year and know where I will buy them now.

[cooleyjb]

This is my third attempt on this one. I am doing my best not to brow beat the living S out of the whole lot!
Running a dang, free sticker, that is a very small advertisment for a very good sponsor is not the huge deal you guys are trying to make it into. If it had been me being the sponsor I would have wanted company name a lot more prominent than those little stickers.
Baker should have come up with some sort of idea like this for y'alls pet HNR and this board would be singing SCCA's praises.
First off Greg, don't worry about something being crooked, Charlie & Mike at Saferacer are about as honest as they come. No ones palms are being greased. We need every promotional and sponsor dollar we can find in this day and age.

This attitude from the "nath" makes me think Bert Levy was writing about real modern day folks in his books.

Here's my take. I have nothing but respect for the guys at Saferacer. They are a good group of guys. I do run a small business that 'competes' with them on a very small scale. If I were to offer a contingency package it would include the terms that I was to be the only race apparel dealer on the car. I don't have the ability to do what Saferacer has done so I applaud them for stepping up and doing it. My issue is with the SCCA. They've now required me to a put a sticker on my car that I will get NOTHING from. The 15K goes to the top finishers and in SRF I'm not a top national guy. The other money that is going to SCCA will do nothing to lower my fees or make it cheaper for me to race. If they're going to 'offer' a 10% discount, whoopeee, they've had that forever.


Maybe I just haven't been around long enough to be cynical; personally, I think it's great that a sponsor is willing to step up, recognize, and provide such support for our little hobby.

I think it's great that they did as well. However it's a contingency package that we're getting as racers, not a sponsorship from them. A sponsorship package benefits all the racers, a contingency package will only benefit a small portion of the actual competitors.


From the press release:
“As part of the sponsorship, SafeRacer will provide $15,000 in certificates to be distributed to class Champions in the nationwide point championship.”
I wish I could say more, unfortunately I have a responsibility now not to discuss contract terms but the word part here is very important. I think it is great that a company like Saferacer has stepped up to become a title sponsor for the National racing series and in doing so will hopefully help in the effort to reclaim some of the luster it so richly deserves. I need belts this year and know where I will buy them now.

That's the problem. This is MY club too but I don't get any info on how the deal went down or what we are gettting. This is one of the many issues that there are with the club. This isn't NASA where it's a for profit model. This is my club and at the amateur level I don't want to whore my self out to anyone, even if they're a good group of guys like Saferacer.

Since you're on the board, how about answers to these questions.

What does the last place guy at the Mid America National in SRF get from Saferacer?

Like sponsors in other racing are they going to have a presence at every National? Koni was at every Koni Challenge Race.

What do the regions that put on the national events get from this? They are actually taking the financial risk and manpower to put these one.

What do the cornerworkers, grid crew, stewards, tech, etc. get from Saferacer? They are volunteering for a amateur level club and now we have a professional sponsor.

Why wasn't this put out to bid? I can think of a few orgnizaitons that would have put up a decent amount of money to get title billing.

[JoshS]

The other money that is going to SCCA will do nothing to lower my fees or make it cheaper for me to race.

How do you know that?

[dickita15]

Cooley, sorry not sure what your name is.
I will give it a shot. First yes, I am not going tell you the all details that I know about the full deal between Saferacer and SCCA, I can’t. Being on the board now there is a fiduciary responsibility to the club and details of contracts are not something I can reveal. But that is how the club works. It elects a board, hopefully people they trust, and that board amongst other things directs the president and staff. It is not possible to let 50,000 people vote on every small detail of the day to day business.
While I did not have a vote on this deal, my term actually started about 16 hours ago, I am pleased with the deal. I wish it was more and maybe if this sponsor feels good about his return on investment the next deal will be bigger. It is a step in the right direction.
You say we are not business like others but we do have to be run in a businesslike manner. The stakes are too high, we all have too much invested in this sport for it to be run like the local garden club.
Most of my fellow directors I had not met before last month when I got to spend three long days in Topeka debating all manner of issues but despite some agreement and some heated discussion for the most part I think they are all very concerned about doing the right thing. They come from various backgrounds so that colors their opinions but they are not dumb and they are all working to do their best.
I do not know exactly how Saferacer is going to promote their series involvement but I would doubt they are going to have a physical presence at all 70 or so SCCA nationals. If you have a local company that supports you at the track that you want to support you certainly may but if not consider supporting someone who supports your club.
Enlisting a title sponsor for national racing is a good thing in my mind. There is a direct benefit to those that earn contingency but there is also a benefit to the club and particularly club racing from Saferacer’s support. This benefits everyone who is involved in club racing, the drivers, the workers and even a lowly IT driver like me. Is this deal huge or a salvation, no of course not, but it is a good move in the right direction.
By the way Solo has had a similar deal with Tire Rack for years and I do not hear anything negative about that not did I hear anything negative about the Pro It sponsorship deals or its predecessor the OMP Challenge.

[Knestis]

So (and I'm not hurling venom in anyone's direction, just questioning the structure of the deal), every National driver is required to wear stickers, and the benefits of the deal accrue ONLY to "class Champions in the nationwide point championship." If I don't run the stickers, I'm out of compliance with the GCR and will be penalized - as opposed to simply not being eligible for the prize. I have all that right?

K

[JoshS]

So (and I'm not hurling venom in anyone's direction, just questioning the structure of the deal), every National driver is required to wear stickers, and the benefits of the deal accrue ONLY to "class Champions in the nationwide point championship." If I don't run the stickers, I'm out of compliance with the GCR and will be penalized - as opposed to simply not being eligible for the prize. I have all that right?

K

Kirk, I think your "ONLY" is wrong. The only detail that has been revealed is the money that goes to the class champions, but it seems that there's more money than that and the club must have some plan for how to use it. Presumably it gets used in a manner that is to the benefit of all national racers, but that is just an assumption.

[IPRESS]

WELL SO MUCH FOR MY IDEA TO GO TO CHARLIE AND SEE IF THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING FOR THE REGIONAL ONLY GROUP!
You guys are something else.

Dick good luck to you, I can't wait to tell R. David how giddy my fellow IT racers are and appreciate the good things the people in charge do for us.:rolleyes:

[dickita15]

Technically Kirk anyone running National races must run the required SCCA series sticker, that includes the name of the series title sponsor, in place of the previously requires SCCA Club Racing sticker.
National point leaders will receive contingency awards from part of the sponsorship. Anyone involved in club racing will benefit some from other parts of the program.
I would assume that a driver could be penalized for not running the series sticker in the same manner as last year, probably a logbook notation.
Mac, I would suggest giving feedback to you director is always a good thing, of course this deal had no negative effect on IT at all although it is conceivable that the support of club racing from an quality sponsor may have some positive effect.

[gran racing]

Dick - regarding ProIt and the Driving Impressions / other sponsor relationships, that series is being billed as a "Pro" series. That's the big difference between the two. As far as the Tire Rack deal, I'm not familiar with that but obviously you have a point or maybe some expressed the same feeling.


Dick good luck to you, I can't wait to tell R. David how giddy my fellow IT racers are and appreciate the good things the people in charge do for us

Oh come on Mac. A deal is announced with a national series sponsor (again, not contigency), people are frustrated with some of the actions SCCA leadership has done such as moving forward with H&NR being a requirement AND SFI 38.1 / FIA only; all of the IT cars being reviewed vanishing and related BS, among a few other things. People see this announcement in the just recently published GCR with a saferacer ad of a Hans device. Let me be clear here, I am NOT saying any back room deals are being made, but the way all of this came out was not overly effective. I'm sorry, but SCCA has a problem with its communication and a big perception of items happening behind closed doors and membership never understanding what's going on. No, every decision should not be put out for membership review but you need to understand we can only hold up so many straws of hay.

I TOTALLY understand Dick's position of not being able to provide us additional details, but then SCCA should have better communicated (yup, there it is again!) with it's members. When the message is full of ambiguity, you're baiting people to jump to conclusions based on perceptions.

[IPRESS]

Dave my point is, this board is made up of a lot of good guys who love racing. Not all have the same viewpoints on the different aspects of the sport. Sometimes (and it seems like it is getting to be more often) some of these good guys go nuts on subjects where they "invent" problems. This place gets negative vibes real quick.
Just in the past few months we have had the "Downfall of IT" subject beat to a pulp by the CRB haters. Now we have the "BOR is Selling out the Club" saga.
Message boards are great, but my goodness why all the negative, IMMEDIATLY?
It is easy to sit back and pick at everything the SCCA leaders do or try to do. Hell I have been a pretty harsh critic when I thought they were wrong, but it was after I new some facts to base it on.
Around here you get your pet subjects that are exempt from the usual negative grilling and somehow turn into an influence on something good turning it negative. I call BS.

The HNR seems to be that pet subject in this case. Saferacer sells the HANS and has run that ad for a long time. So you dot connectors are trying to pin the Series, and the HNR ruling for a couple of years in the future, together. (you guys had to love the part in "The Shooter" where the old CIA Op said he new where the grassy knoll guys were buried." :)
HANS & Issac / RSI & SFI - It has been debated back and forth on here and other forums, to the point of hurling!
I am sorry that the product of safety some of you have chosen is not going to be legal as it stands now. The politics involved and the way business decisions work sometimes gets way more involved than what the grassroots racer wants. That said it is what it is.
You guys need to seperate the SAFERACER deal from the HNR issue. It is totally seperate. I really don't see this any different than the Tire Rack deal in Solo.
My only wish is that it could be expanded to include us Regional Only guys.
Thank You for your time and feel free to go all negative again!:shrug:

[cooleyjb]

Mac-

Anyone who thinks this is a HNR thing driven by Saferacer is absolutely nuts.

Anyone who is hating on SafeRacer for doing this is absolutely nuts. I think it's great that they are in the position to do this and are doing.

This black helicopter crap only gets in the way of the true issues with this program.

The issue that the 'haters' have are that we've just been forced to run a business's logo on the side of our car for what appears to be a pittance.

The Summit Racing contingency program has the ability to put up to 142,000 dollars (not vouchers from what I read on the contingency form) into competitors hands (albeit over only 8 classes) and it's a voluntary contingency of which the majority of SCCA competitors aren't elgible for so they don't even have to worry about.

Saferacer gets title billing, advertising on every car and the club only gets 15,000 dollars in vouchers for the top competitors.

Now do you start to see where this disconnect is beginning?

The other issue that some have mentioned is probably what drives me the most crazy. SCCA can't seem to figure out that communication is what makes this club racing world we live in bearable. When something as big as a title sponsor for the national series of the club gets setup we don't even get a press release until after we see it in the rules and that press release gives minimal information from what the BOD is saying. Not too helpful.

--Joe

[Greg Amy]

That's the best you guys can do? Instead of addressing fellow members' concerns directly, recognize the reasoning behind these concerns, and finding way to "convince" them, you simply revert to calling them names, alienate them, and then try to marginalize their concerns? And then you suddenly expect them to see the "error of their ways" and fall back from the Dark Side to your Good Side?

That's a religion, not a logic ("Heathans"!!!). Do note that your attitudes do nothing to alleviate these concerns; on the contrary, they make you seem gullible, unimaginative, and make the rest of us see how easy it can be to pull the wool over the proverbial eyes (whether it exists or not).

Again, I ain't sayin' anything's going on, but the more I read this topic, the actually more concerned I get...

:shrug:

[Mike Mackaman]

Any sponsor deal for club racing, national or regional is a good thing, especially with the economy as it is. Thank you Saferacer and SCCA!

Anybody else think that the head and neck thing has a couple people with a case of the red a$$? I am not happy with it, but I will be honest and say that I have been considering buying one. Hard to justify when I am lucky to get my two races in to keep my license, but I have thought that I would feel pretty stupid standing at the pearly gates justifying not wearing one.

Mike

[IPRESS]

Greg, I am going to take a guess that what you said was well spoken and relevant.
SCCA & SAFERACER should have had you draft the PR release.:D

How about this...Lets hold back on damning the deal until we see how it works one time. If it is not a good deal don't do it again. Like I said I think the free stickers are worth it. I will be using them instead of buying the old ones. You guys that win certificates that don't want them can PM me. And good luck to you I will be pulling for you.:smilie_pokal:

[Andy Bettencourt]

Or we can reserve judgement like Dick has asked us too until we find out the full story.

[Knestis]

Greg, I am going to take a guess that what you said was well spoken and relevant.
SCCA & SAFERACER should have had you draft the PR release.:D

How about this...Lets hold back on damning the deal until we see how it works one time. If it is not a good deal don't do it again. Like I said I think the free stickers are worth it. I will be using them instead of buying the old ones. You guys that win certificates that don't want them can PM me. And good luck to you I will be pulling for you.:smilie_pokal:

I'm glad for you, Mac, that you think these issues are so entertaining. I'm just hoping there will be lots of UN-happy icons for you to whip out when deficiencies in those silly things some of us "tinkerers" have argued for - repeatability, transparency, objectivity, communication, equity - contribute to some decision crapping in your personal little punchbowl...

When you get told to buy a new SFI seat, you might start to realize maybe it's NOT all about the Isaac...?

Or when the ITA Miata gets lead because a couple finish 1-2 at the ARRC, MAYBE a transparent, repeatable weight specification process won't seem like such a bad thing...?

Or when some stand-alone ECU manufacturer makes a sweetheart sponsorship deal with the Club, and a tech inspector tells you that contractual obligations mean you've got to replace the DIYAutoTune.com stickers on your car with their logo? Maybe it would be nice to have some transparency beyond, "Hey, trust us - we're Board members...!"

K

[tnord]

don't you guys have anything better to complain about?

i know charlie and mike pretty well, probably better than anyone else in this thread. they're better people than 99% of the population who are looking to do nothing but HELP the club. they have been sponsoring SCCA amatuer and pro drivers, our local REGIONAL series, advertising in the GCR, offering discounts to SM competitors, etc

it takes a special kind of person to be pissed off about the club being able to gain a series sponsor in a time when the entire industry is just trying to keep its head above water.

yeah i'm disappointed in plenty of things the BOD has done lately, but this certainly isn't one of them.

[Knestis]

...AND you're missing the point, Travis. I don't think anyone here is being critical of SafeRacer. I certainly haven't.

K

[tnord]

so the club botched the communication of this, big F'ing deal. what's new?

i have a hard time seeing why we should be mad at the club for securing up the same thing we praise SR for offering.

[IPRESS]

Kirk,
If a miata wins the ITA ARRC race I would expect it to be a 1-2 finish... they will have to be a two car train all the way. "IF" weight got thrown on the car then I would have to use a frowny icon, but so what. Did they throw weight on the Honda / Accuras after their wins? As far as your example about the ECU, no one is telling anyone to take anything other than their old SCCA stickers off their cars.

I think you guys mean well, maybe it is just the presentation that always seems to come across as fingernails on a blackboard. Maybe someone from the Upper Right Coast sees the same thing and thinks you guys are being positive....it must be something lost in the translation.

[Andy Bettencourt]

No Mac, they are being negative. Some things bother some more than others. We will find out the whole plan soon and we can bitch and moan about it then (especially because we are Regional only guys and it has ZERO effect on us).

If it's no good, its no good. But we just don't know yet.

[BruceG]

Any sponsor deal for club racing, national or regional is a good thing, especially with the economy as it is. Thank you Saferacer and SCCA!

Anybody else think that the head and neck thing has a couple people with a case of the red a$$? I am not happy with it, but I will be honest and say that I have been considering buying one. Hard to justify when I am lucky to get my two races in to keep my license, but I have thought that I would feel pretty stupid standing at the pearly gates justifying not wearing one.

Mike

Mike....I felt the same way...and have now changed my mind. There is a pretty convincing thread from a retiring BOd member on the apexspeed forum re: the insurance implications if the club didn't pass this mandate. I choose to wear a HANS(and thought that H&N's should be a choice for all...not mandated, but looking at the potential liability issues for a club with not so deep pockets, I now believe it makes sense.

As regards the new national sticker, as Andy says...it doesn't affect us in regional racing. I guess any sponsorship we have(short of terrorists)is a good thing. The only terrorists we have in ITA are Flatout...and only because they are so good they put fear in out hearts....LOL. I have a rear facing radar detector in my RX7 so that I can pull over when I hear Andy coming.....LOL.

My only complaint with the new national sticker is....will folks be black flagged because the Saferacer logo is bigger than the SCCA logo and corner workers think it didn't go through tech? :D

[jhooten]

So, if I am going to run the car in both ITE and EP do I have to have both sets of stickers on the car?

[jumbojimbo]

No. Required on National. Optional on Regional.

[IPRESS]

Robert I am not aiming this at you any more than myself and the rest on here, but....

You stated what we all say, but should insted should do.
"SCCA should do............."
WE ARE SCCA if we think it is so easy to secure a much better sponsor deal I am sure that the folks in TOPEKA would welcome most any great deal we could bring.
Members of the club have endless contacts, if they would work with Topeka to cultivate and make partnerships with said contacts things migh be better.

And before you ask my best contact in the automotive game was Charlie at Saferacer!

[tnord]

i chuckle at Roberts response.

as if he wouldn't just LOVE to sponsor national racing so he could get his hands on that email list of SCCA members. :lol:

[StephenB]

I personally won't lose any sleep over this But.... look at rally america and I think you will see an example of what scca could do... team up with companies and people that get us exposure and then watch the membership grow. This sponsorship looks like it has nothing to do with long term improvement for the members and is rather just a short term benifit some will enjoy. Either way it doesn't benifit or hurt me so I see no reason to get all worked up about it.

[Robert Zecca]

I would like to add that things are very tough right now for all of us. SCCA is trying hard and I believe this will be in our best interests. We have to be thankful that a company like Saferacer will step up to the plate to help us. Be patient....this thing can turn out to be very good.....I believe there is more to it that we can not see right now but in the end we will all benefit in some way.

[JohnW8]

After scanning through this thread I have to say I'm a little confused. Are folks thinking because Saferacer has offered to sponsor the National Series that we racers are required to buy from them? I purchase from the best suppliers and I'm sure I've bought from just about all of them, including Saferacer. Their sponsorship, in this economy is nothing to curl up our collective noses at. I'd say it's downright welcome. I read someone say that this wouldn't benefit all racers, That it would only benefit a few, isn't that the competition we all crave? Last time I looked there were no guarantees about winning but you have every opportunity to try. I'm going to read more of these threads but so far I don't see anything to complain about.

Welcome Saferacer and thanks for your support.

[lateapex911]

Kirk,
If a miata wins the ITA ARRC race I would expect it to be a 1-2 finish... they will have to be a two car train all the way. "IF" weight got thrown on the car then I would have to use a frowny icon, but so what. Did they throw weight on the Honda / Accuras after their wins?

Minor point of order, the CRX has been at the front od the ARRC train and the IT-Fest train, has taken numerous wins, and hasn't seen an ounce of weight thrown at it. (Actually, a CRX owner approached me asking for a weight break (or weight on other cars) because, as he stated", Time has passed the CRX, it needs help".)

[Scooter]

Thanks to SafeRacer for the sponsorship! It's hard to get sponsorships for lower-level road racing and it's great to see SafeRacer putting some money out there for us. Thanks!