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View Full Version : Tow Vehicle, what should I get?



THawkbh
12-25-2009, 12:42 AM
I'm looking to pick up a tow vehicle. The trailer is a 20ft enclosed so I'm looking for a pickup truck, not a suburban/excursion, etc. I want something that has got a real strong transmission. I'd rather not have to replace it every 3 years. That being said, I think it would be smartest to buy a truck that hasn't been used to tow with in the past. I'd like to keep the cost under 10k. I was thinking an F150/250 or a chevy/gmc 2500. I'm no truck guy so I know nothing about which models are best for towing, which are weak, and how they differ from year to year. Can anyone provide some advice?

Thanks

BruceG
12-25-2009, 08:37 AM
I'm looking to pick up a tow vehicle. The trailer is a 20ft enclosed so I'm looking for a pickup truck, not a suburban/excursion, etc. I want something that has got a real strong transmission. I'd rather not have to replace it every 3 years. That being said, I think it would be smartest to buy a truck that hasn't been used to tow with in the past. I'd like to keep the cost under 10k. I was thinking an F150/250 or a chevy/gmc 2500. I'm no truck guy so I know nothing about which models are best for towing, which are weak, and how they differ from year to year. Can anyone provide some advice?

Thanks

Merry Xmas...I have a 2002 HD2500 Chevy truck with an 8' bed and cap. It has an 8.1L 494(LOL) and a 4spd Allison tranny. Been great so far and didn't break the bank. Has the towing package, as well.

THawkbh
12-25-2009, 10:43 AM
Merry Xmas...I have a 2002 HD2500 Chevy truck with an 8' bed and cap. It has an 8.1L 494(LOL) and a 4spd Allison tranny. Been great so far and didn't break the bank. Has the towing package, as well.

Would I be able to pick one up for under 10k? That's a diesel, no? I think diesels are running a little out of my range right now.

Merry Christmas everyone

ed325its
12-25-2009, 11:05 AM
2500 Chevy Avalanche! I have a 2002 Avalanche 1500 Z71 for towing my open trailer (and snowmobile trailer) and it's been running all over the northeast for many years. Best truck I have ever owned!

JoshS
12-25-2009, 04:35 PM
Would I be able to pick one up for under 10k? That's a diesel, no? I think diesels are running a little out of my range right now.

8.1L (496ci, actually) is a gas motor, the last of the Chevy big blocks. Available in the 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks (2500/3500), and the 3/4-ton Suburbans and Avalanches (2500). Beast of a motor, I have one in a Suburban, and I absolutely love towing the 8,000lb trailer with it.

And yes, they can be had for under $10K. Look for something in the model years 2000-2006, although I think the later years might be out of the price range unless they have super-high miles.

THawkbh
12-25-2009, 07:14 PM
8.1L (496ci, actually) is a gas motor, the last of the Chevy big blocks. Available in the 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks (2500/3500), and the 3/4-ton Suburbans and Avalanches (2500). Beast of a motor, I have one in a Suburban, and I absolutely love towing the 8,000lb trailer with it.

And yes, they can be had for under $10K. Look for something in the model years 2000-2006, although I think the later years might be out of the price range unless they have super-high miles.

Oh no kiddin? That's good news. Most ads dont mention engine size. Do you know what I should look for as far as vin codes?

What tow packages should I look for? I've never been quite sure about the tow packages. Sometimes it seems like the dealer just threw on a hitch, other times it seems like the truck might have the load leveling feature.

How is the mileage while towing; anything above 10mpg?

pballance
12-25-2009, 08:11 PM
I have a good friend that tows his DSR with a 20' enclosed using the same spec'd truck that BruceG has for sale. IT is a beast and he gets around 9 mpg when towing. I use a 2500, 4wd, 6.5' bed Diesel and Allison 4 speed auto. I tow a 24' enclosed and get ~12 or a little less if I go above 70 mph.

FWIW, if you look at a 2500 Chevy or GMC make sure you get either the 8.1l gas engine or the 6.6 Diesel and the Allison tranny. You can then tow just about anything you might want to tow.

There are some pretty good buys out there as well.

BruceG
12-25-2009, 08:24 PM
I towed a 24ft enclosed featherlite with a 48 Plymouth inside(has a 54 hemi in it) from Southern VT to Torrington CT with the 8.1l. Barely knew I was towing a load.

BruceG
12-25-2009, 08:25 PM
Nice rig, Paul!

THawkbh
12-25-2009, 08:33 PM
man, those 8.1s are tougher to find than I thought they'd be.

Bruce, I didn't realize you were selling the truck?

JoshS
12-25-2009, 10:26 PM
8.1L can be identified if the 8th digit of the VIN is a 'G'.

Anything with the 8.1L will have the heavy duty tow stuff.

BruceG
12-26-2009, 09:20 AM
man, those 8.1s are tougher to find than I thought they'd be.

Bruce, I didn't realize you were selling the truck?

Drew...I'm not selling it.

pballance
12-26-2009, 10:56 AM
man, those 8.1s are tougher to find than I thought they'd be.

Bruce, I didn't realize you were selling the truck?
That's my fault. I fail at reading :)

He is not selling his truck.....

Thanks Bruce, IT is also a sometimes daily driver. I actually got 23 mpg out of it on a trip this year (not towing). Then again, I hate Virginia 65 mpg speed limit...............

BruceG
12-26-2009, 05:57 PM
That's my fault. I fail at reading :)

He is not selling his truck.....

Thanks Bruce, IT is also a sometimes daily driver. I actually got 23 mpg out of it on a trip this year (not towing). Then again, I hate Virginia 65 mpg speed limit...............

No sweat, Paul...after the recent heated discussions here and on other forums RE: the new madatory H&R reguirements, this is just plain fun....Merry Xmas and Happy New Year!!

THawkbh
12-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Those 8.1L trucks are damn near impossible to find. Any other suggestions? Will the 6.0 do the job without needing a new tranny every 3 years?

seckerich
12-26-2009, 10:41 PM
The 7.4 Vortec is also a very good Motor. If you like a manual trans be sure to get the 6 speed or the NV 3500 with the cast iron case. 170,000 miles towing 26,000 pounds and no problems. Pilot bearing sucks but there is a cure for that.

Greg Amy
12-28-2009, 01:22 PM
My only experience is with Ford products. For a 20-foot enclosed trailer I suggest you'll want a bigger engine and stouter chassis; I tried towing a 24-footer with a 302-equipped E150 and it didn't cut it.

If you can find an older (mid-90s) F-250 or -350 with the diesel engine, that would work fine. Don't get the non-turbocharged engine (before 1993?), and you can probably find a good deal on the dirt-simple-to-maintain turbocharged mechanical injection pre-Powerstroke diesels ('94-95?)

Transmissions on the Fords can be an issue, mostly because they're tuned for comfort so the trans slips a lot. But if you get a good buy-in price you can afford to have it reworked. Mass Diesel near Boston can convert these things into indestructible tow beasts. If you find one with an already-good E4OD or 4R100 trans then buy the Banks Power TransCommand; it'll up the band pressures and tighten the shifts up.

If the budget allows, move up to the later 90's Powerstroke trucks. That 7.3L will tow like nothing else. They tend to retain their value, however, unless really long in miles. If you can find one within your budget, any Ford turbodiesel truck will do.

Finally, I was fairly satisfied towing with my 6.9L V10 E350. I'd suggest as late a one as you can afford, as they made several improvements in the heads over the years relating to airflow (read: more power) and spark plug bosses (earlier ones were thin, and ham-fisted spark plug replacements could result in stripped threads and plug blow-outs). The 6.9L V10 will pull a 20-footer with NO problems. My E350 had the earlier (1999) engine plus engines are further de-rated in the vans, but it pulled my 24-footer well. You had to let the speed drain a bit on long hills, and you had to be willing to let it rev, but other than when climbing the Blue Ridge Mountains (top speed 55 mph floored and revving) I never really had any issues with keeping up to speed. Had I the pickup version of the engine and/or the later higher-flow heads (post-2001?) and I would have been perfectly happy.

Best part about the V10 is that you can get a nice one CHEAP. I do mean CHEAP. Do a search on a 2002 vintage F350 crew cab long bed and I think you'll find it's within your budget.

Worst part about the V10 is fuel economy: expect 7-8 mpg while towing, up to 12-13 mpg in lightly-loaded highway cruising (not towing). But given you can get one of these for such lower money, that will more than make up for additional fuel costs. Plus, maintenance is cheaper on the gassers.

Streetwise guy
12-28-2009, 03:08 PM
To add to Gregs Ford story- The reason the 7.3 diesels hold their value so well is that nobody wants the 6.0. It was a nightmare, and Ford still can't come up with a head gasket that will stay in it. The 6.4 is better, but mileage sucks due to the particulate trap. That can be solved, but not legally in a polution controlled jurisdiction.

The gas engines don't require a hamfisted plug change, although that does help. Early engine have 3 threads in an alumunum head to hold the plugs. Bad design. There is a commonly available Timesert kit to repair the heads, but its a pain. The later 3 valve heads use more threads, but have a two part spark plug that breaks when you remove them unless you do a two day decarbonize/penetrating oil/wiggle program. Again, there is a commonly available puller kit to remove the ceramic and unthreaded spark plug extension. Quick solution is to sell the truck before you have to change the plugs, so watch out for that when you are buying.

As to transmissions, add a trans temp gauge, and drive by it. Temp kills.

JeffYoung
12-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Don't overlook the Cummins! Yes, the engine is better than the truck, but the truck ain't that bad. Tranny issues and balljoints are the big items, but they can be solved, and the Cummins will routinely run 250k no issues. Hell, easiest way to solve the tranny issue is to get a manual, which is fun to drive.

Early 2000s models are in the 8-9k range. They will tow a house.

Here's a local example, with 100k, and for about $9 grand.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/1525025241.html

racer_tim
12-28-2009, 09:39 PM
Look for an older Dodge 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel. You won't even know the trailer is behind you. I have a 1998.5 4x4, crew cab and when I towed up to Portland in 2003 with a dual axle open trailer, I got 18 mpg.

Hoof Hearted
12-29-2009, 11:59 AM
I have a 95 F-350 with a polar ice cap depleting 460 gas hog... ...this thing gets 8 mph whether towing a fully loaded tandem axle trailer, coasting down Mount Everest or pushed out of a C-130. If I'm towing up an incline, I routinely get passed by Prius's, unicycles, wheelchairs and grandmother's with walkers. This thing can't get out of its own way...

benspeed
12-29-2009, 12:59 PM
I like the Fords for towing. I just bought two Class A RVs - the first had a Chevy 454 carb motor - drove it around and thought it could pull an open trailer - tested it out loaded and I know the trans would die - only a three speed. Selling that RV before I kill it towing.

Bought a second RV with the Ford 460 EFI and a Banks system with the trans commander. What a difference - this will pull an open trailer without too much heartburn. A big point is having the Banks Trans commander - that will save the tranny. I plan on installing a temp sensor just to be sure I don't melt anything.

I also tow with a 2003 Ford F350 V10. That pulled my 26 foot enclosed no problem. The trailer weighed about 9,000 loaded. Put it in cruise and it would drop to third on the steeper grades - always got about 8 mpg towing, 10 mpg unloaded.

BruceG
12-29-2009, 01:33 PM
I like the Fords for towing. I just bought two Class A RVs - the first had a Chevy 454 carb motor - drove it around and thought it could pull an open trailer - tested it out loaded and I know the trans would die - only a three speed. Selling that RV before I kill it towing.

Bought a second RV with the Ford 460 EFI and a Banks system with the trans commander. What a difference - this will pull an open trailer without too much heartburn. A big point is having the Banks Trans commander - that will save the tranny. I plan on installing a temp sensor just to be sure I don't melt anything.

I also tow with a 2003 Ford F350 V10. That pulled my 26 foot enclosed no problem. The trailer weighed about 9,000 loaded. Put it in cruise and it would drop to third on the steeper grades - always got about 8 mpg towing, 10 mpg unloaded.

Ben neglected to tell you that there are 15 strippers and their gear in the trailer and even a CAT diesel couldn't pull it ...LOL

THawkbh
12-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Thanks for all the good input guys. I'm considering all of it.

Is 4wd really that important. Llime rock and wgi are pretty much completely paved.

Ron Earp
12-30-2009, 09:03 AM
I don't own either of these suggestions, but if I were doing the tow truck thing all over again I'd look for either a Ford 250/350 diesel 2wd six speed (rare, it'll be at least seven years old and in your budget), or a Dodge 2500/3500 diesel 2wd six speed (not as rare as the Ford).

Where I live 4WD is not required thus eliminating it removes weight and complexity (plus lowers the ride height to a reasonable level for a short guy), and maybe that is the same for you. Simple, proven, and durable.

dickita15
12-30-2009, 09:23 AM
I am towing a 24 footer packed full of crap with a 5 year old Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 with a Hemi. I bought new with the towing and plowing packages. I would love to have the diesel but do not be afraid of the gas motor. It is faster up hills than Greg’s V10 E350 and way faster that my buddy’s 350 Chevy half ton even when he is using the open trailer.

joeg
12-30-2009, 12:38 PM
I rely on 4X4 a bit. Grassy paddocks can turn into muddy paddocks and with a nose heavy diesel, I often grab the 4X4 lever.

Greg Amy
12-30-2009, 02:04 PM
The only time I've ever needed 4WD was to use our diesel Excursion to pull a Class A motorhome and its 40-foot trailer out of the muck at Pocono... :)

benspeed
12-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Greg, if I get stuck I'm looking for you, bro!!!

JeffYoung
12-30-2009, 03:10 PM
4X4 where we live is not needed, and is an expensive option on the Ram.

It's pretty easy to locate 6speed manual Rams, and the pre 04 ones go for just under 10k right now. Great engine, decent truck.

Ron Earp
12-30-2009, 08:00 PM
4X4 where we live is not needed, and is an expensive option on the Ram.

And it isn't needed for most folks. If every Billybob wasn't convinced they had to have four wheel drive to have a manly truck then Ford/Dodge/GM would be producing a lot less of them and the 2WD versions would be more abundant. But nooooooooo......pretty much all my truck loving redneck friends are convinced that no 4x4 = no truck, even though they'll willingly admit they rarely/never use the four wheel drive and could get by with out it.

THawkbh
12-30-2009, 11:52 PM
And it isn't needed for most folks. If every Billybob wasn't convinced they had to have four wheel drive to have a manly truck then Ford/Dodge/GM would be producing a lot less of them and the 2WD versions would be more abundant. But nooooooooo......pretty much all my truck loving redneck friends are convinced that no 4x4 = no truck, even though they'll willingly admit they rarely/never use the four wheel drive and could get by with out it.

I could care less about it being manly. If I can get by without it, I'd rather save weight. It broadens the candidate pool too. This is why I asked:


The only time I've ever needed 4WD was to use our diesel Excursion to pull a Class A motorhome and its 40-foot trailer out of the muck at Pocono... :)

Greg, where do you paddock? I've always been on the pavement somewhat close to the garages. It sounds like I won't really need it with 'just' a 20footer.

Greg Amy
12-31-2009, 08:15 AM
I agree: no 4WD needed. Plus, the 4WD in trucks is not very usable except in extreme conditions.

But as Ron pointed out, there are far more 4WD opportunities.


Greg, where do you paddock? I've always been on the pavement somewhat close to the garages. It sounds like I won't really need it with 'just' a 20footer.
This was in '09, we were outside the fence in the North Course area. There were rains the prior weekend and a Class A decided he wanted to cross from one asphalt lane to the other through the grass in a depressed area. Didn't make it...

Nice thing about getting stuck in a race paddock: it doesn't happen very often, especially if you plan ahead, but there's always someone there that can pull you out.

Ron Earp
12-31-2009, 08:54 AM
Nice thing about getting stuck in a race paddock: it doesn't happen very often, especially if you plan ahead, but there's always someone there that can pull you out.

Exactly. I've been using my 2wd truck for five years now and have left many a soaked paddock with it. If you use some common sense, even when on grass and mud, you'll be fine. Don't under estimate how much extra traction you get with a 1200 lbs of tongue weight on the rear axle.

I do have a LSD in my truck but I don't think that has really made a difference for me. And, I do have big fat performance tires, not truck tires, and still do fine. At least down South I don't think 4WD is a requirement at all.

I enjoy my tow truck but the only thing I'd change about it would be to make it a manual transmission. I enjoy driving Jeff's Dodge with the six speed, tis fun.

pballance
12-31-2009, 09:48 AM
I don't need 4wd and the only reason I have it is that after a searching the local area(up to 200 miles) for several months I found exactly 1 2wd Duramax/Allison combo and it was not a crew cab. So I bought a 4wd Crew Cab that had everything else I wanted.

I use the new 350 dually Fords at work, and IMHO, nice trucks, suck fuel down like you wouldn't believe, and are not very comfortable for long trips. Ride quality is ok but I think the Powerstroke's mentioned would be a much better tow vehicle.

Good luck with your search as any of the recommendations will serve you well.

jimbbski
12-31-2009, 05:39 PM
Not my trucks but here's my experience.

I've driven 95-96 Ford F450's with the 7.3L Power Stroke with 6 speed and couldn't kill them. I pulled loads up to 26K gross and while slow it pulled the load.

I don't remember the year (Somewhere between 2000-2003) but have also driven a Dodge with the Cummings and 6 speed pulling a 45ft 5th wheels trailer. This truck impressed me, I was able to maintain 65 mph up hill with the trailer lightly loaded. I also drove the Dodge empty at highway speeds (60-80 mph) and got 20 mpg!

I prefer a Ford overall but for the price I just might buy a Dodge if and when I am in the market for a newer tow vehicle.

JeffYoung
12-31-2009, 11:51 PM
Ram/Cummins fuel mileage is pretty good. I get 18-19 mpg without the trailer. 13-14 with depending on how fast I tow. They are decent trucks with a great motor.

Ditto on the stuck in the paddock stuff. If you just pay attention, at least at VIR/CMP/Roebling, you won't get in trouble.

The big thing about my truck and 4x4 that I truly HATE is the damn bed is like 5 feet in the air. Hard to get stuff in and out of it.

You can find 2500/3500 Ram/Cummins trucks without 4X4 pretty easily. Guys who are serious about towing like them and that same crowd likes the 2x4 for the fifth wheel since it lowers the bed down.

THawkbh
01-01-2010, 04:09 AM
How are the transmissions in the Dodges? Chrysler isn't exactly known for their long lasting trannys.
Do you burn through clutches towing with a manual? I feel like I would go through a clutch pretty quick.

JeffYoung
01-01-2010, 11:59 AM
As I understand it, the older 5 speeds (pre 98) are pretty weak. Then, the NV5600 (New Venture) came on line in 98 and had some input shaft issues that were corrected in 00. Dodge used this tranny until 2005 and it has a good reputation for reliability.

In 06, they switched to a Mercedes unit that is bulletproof. I've got nearly 50k miles of towing with no issues. The Cummins Ram boards have plenty of guys who went 150k on the stock clutch.

The automatics are actually weak up until 06 or 07, I can't remember which, and are to be avoided. They are the units that gave Mopar that bad name as far as trannies go.

JeffYoung
01-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Scratch all of that. I have made a disovery. Voila....the perfect tow vehicle:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/1960-1969/top-1968-Plymouth-GTX-440-Six-Pack-Wagon-by-Performance-West-Group.htm

Greg Amy
01-01-2010, 06:26 PM
:happy204:

Here's one I came across today, very interesting. F-350 DRW, 7.3L diesel, , bed work boxes...

http://longisland.craigslist.org/ctd/1505662855.html

Eagle7
01-01-2010, 06:54 PM
:happy204:

Here's one I came across today, very interesting. F-350 DRW, 7.3L diesel, , bed work boxes...

http://longisland.craigslist.org/ctd/1505662855.html

Strangest truck I've ever seen - 7.3L V8 diesel/6.8L V10 gas, auto/manual trans, bench/bucket seats. Amazing how they fit it all into one package. :o

Redshift
01-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Steal of a deal on this truck here. (If he still has it. Had it a few weeks ago.)

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=18525

Same guy built the motor that's in my car, and is a pretty straight-up guy. He's parted ways with his partners in the shop, and they are looking to get rid of all the assets.

99 F250 7.3L 2WD with work boxes on the back for $3K.
Truck's located in southern Ontario.

THawkbh
01-02-2010, 03:10 PM
wow that does look like a really great deal. that's a 9 hour drive away though.

Greg Amy
01-02-2010, 03:13 PM
wow that does look like a really great deal. that's a 9 hour drive away though for a great truck for only $3000, which means I could buy a SouthWest Airlines ticket and go pick it up, drive it back home, and save thousands!!!
Fixed.

;)

Redshift
01-02-2010, 03:45 PM
What Greg said. I would have bought it my self in a second (it hurt me to post it for somebody else) but where I live, I really do need 4WD. (Tow vehicle also serves as winter beater, and a 2WD truck isn't making it around very well where I live.)

THawkbh
01-02-2010, 09:11 PM
Actually what I would do is fly to ontario and then drive straight to michigan to pick up the car.

THawkbh
01-30-2010, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the help everyone. I ended up picking up a '96 chevy 6.5l turbo diesel pickup. It should hold up pretty well.