Flatout Motorsports S2000 build thread...ITR [Archive]

Andy Bettencourt

12-17-2009, 03:30 PM

Our donor has arrived. Hardtop is here. Steve got way too good of a deal on the car I want to make it a street machine. 48K miles and straight. Updates will be posted here all winter as the progress happens. Today it got it's baseline numbers on the dyno and it starts getting gutted.

We think it will be slightly underpowered for the class but extreamly nimble...and since we are used to high-reving torqeless wonders, it will fit right in!

Follow along, enjoy and don't hesitate to ping me with any questions.

benspeed

12-17-2009, 05:07 PM

Can't wait to race ya Steve!!! :-)

ulfelder

12-17-2009, 08:11 PM

Dude, is ITR the place to be in 2010, or what? Gonna be a ball ...

-------
Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITR :happy204:

Ron Earp

12-17-2009, 10:14 PM

Coolness!

Shopping for my ITR donor now for a 2011 debut.

seckerich

12-17-2009, 10:58 PM

You have to bring that bad boy to VIR so we can all play. Good luck with the build. I will have the RX8 out this year. ITR is going to be the place to be in the near future.

ulfelder

12-17-2009, 11:53 PM

Steve, keep us up to date on the RX-8 build. Choosing the S2K over the RX-8 was a tough and close call - I think they'll both be good R cars.

Steve

seckerich

12-18-2009, 09:24 AM

I am in so deep with Mazda there was no call for me. A lot of the Grand Am stuff crosses over so I have a little advantage not starting from scratch. Cage design is critical because of the lack of a B pillar. I am staying with a 17" wheel because there is not a real gain in width we can get with the 18" and weight is not worth it. Gearing is better with 17 as well. I will share anything you want to see on the build. Shooting for 280hp but will settle for 215.:D You planning to run STU National?

ulfelder

12-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Shooting for 280hp but will settle for 215.:D You planning to run STU National?

Only 280? Think big, man!

Personally, I'm a Regional-only kind of guy. However, Nick and Andy have this habit of throwing my car on a trailer, hauling it God knows where, and racing the snot out of it. :shrug: So who knows where you'll see it?

Steve

mossaidis

12-18-2009, 10:31 PM

I Hate you... :)

benspeed

12-19-2009, 12:02 AM

I'm glad I'm getting the head and dyno tune done on my car...gonna be some fisticuffs :-)

Plus I have my stripper wagon going for me over on the other thread - selling the enclosed trailer was a good play!

jcmotorsports

12-19-2009, 12:55 PM

Andy and Steve U.
Good luck with the build. The S2 is a very capable car when fully prepped.:D
JC

Andy Bettencourt

12-20-2009, 12:13 PM

Getting into it quick.

benspeed

12-21-2009, 12:00 PM

It can be painful tearing down a gorgeous car sometimes - can't wait to see more in progress pics

mossaidis

12-21-2009, 12:23 PM

I now know what to get FOM for Xmas... it will make this S2000 the fastest ITR car. It's a secret JDM part...

http://passwordjdm.com/PasswordJDM-Dry-Carbon-Fiber-Spark-Plug-Cover-AP-S2000-P1999C465.aspx

Tristan Smith

12-21-2009, 12:41 PM

That spark plug cover is worth at least an additional 10 rwhp, and gives your car an aero advantage......throwing paper! That alone justifies adding 250lbs of lead to the car!:)

benspeed

12-21-2009, 01:21 PM

Agreed - more lead!

Andy Bettencourt

12-21-2009, 02:30 PM

Expecting to have to put over 300lbs of lead in it already...

jimalley

12-21-2009, 09:43 PM

Expecting to have to put over 300lbs of lead in it already...

Not if you sit around and eat all winter like some of us:D

uh60_fixer

12-30-2009, 04:40 AM

mossaidis

12-30-2009, 02:41 PM

Am I the only one that has an issue with this thread here? Comin'?!?! Miata's guys posting on OUR Honda/Acura section? really? Especially the likes of Jim Malley and Andy B.... I am disgusted. FOM building an S2000!?? is the earth flat again?

I am writing a letter to the BoD, CRB, NARRC and NESCCA senior division chief III. This is preposterous!

Next thing you know, I will be forced to have a Miata Regional Racing Series *sticker* on my Civic.

Ed Funk

12-30-2009, 05:09 PM

Breathe, Mickey!

Andy Bettencourt

12-30-2009, 05:12 PM

LOL! It's MY section now sucka!!!

Andy Bettencourt

12-30-2009, 05:13 PM

What year S2000?

I ask as I am thinking of picking up an AP1 (00-03) S2000, mainly due to their cheap prices these days. However, it seems that the AP2 cars (04 on up) have the better suspension geometry. Just curious as to what generation S2000 you chose and why. There's also the F20 vs F22 engine issue. Thanks in advance for any info and good luck!

I like the AP1 redline better, the donors are cheaper and the suspension issues can be overcome with the allowed IT mods...that's why we chose the AP1.

Seabee

12-31-2009, 12:03 AM

ulfelder

12-31-2009, 12:41 PM

There is a ton of headroom in this car, and Nick and Andy are sure to get plenty of seat time, so Randy Bucchino is installing a seat-slider. Also, note how deep the console/driveshaft tunnel is. The sheet metal capping it is double-thickness stem to stern. This is a very stiff tub for a roadster!

In the other pic, you're on the right side of the car looking at the fuel-filler plumbing, which will be right behind my seat. We haven't yet decided what to do about this - a minimalist shield or a larger bulkhead. A flat bulkhead has the advantage of reducing the size of the air pocket in the car, but it will hamper access to the double-adjustable Konis. (You can't tell here, but the LR shock comes up straight into the fuel-fill tubes - a real PITA.)

Steve

ulfelder

01-09-2010, 10:10 AM

The footers for the cage are in. Dig the front one! Hard to tell in this shot, but it's a cylinder that tapers inward as it moves down. Randy's idea was to avoid the big square ankle-banger on the driver's side, and also to keep that lowest weld as close to the frame rail as possible.

The rear footers (well, the one on the left - the one on the right is shown here) had to be smallish so we could maximize adjustability of the seat.

The other shots show the brackets we made to attach the hardtop.

Steve

Knestis

01-09-2010, 06:36 PM

... Randy's idea was to avoid the big square ankle-banger on the driver's side, and also to keep that lowest weld as close to the frame rail as possible. ...

Nice attention to detail there.

K

Andy Bettencourt

01-15-2010, 11:23 AM

Cage half done. Upper bars run the contour of the OEM hardtop. So much space it's rediculous.

ulfelder

01-15-2010, 05:51 PM

A couple more pics shot today. The moral of the middle shot, showing the LR brace and fuel-fill gear, is that we need a crew guy with small hands to adjust that shock! :D

Andy Bettencourt

01-19-2010, 06:05 PM

More cage hotness.

quadzjr

01-20-2010, 12:30 PM

nice looking cage.. are you going to be incorporating in the seat to the cage?

Andy Bettencourt

01-20-2010, 01:16 PM

nice looking cage.. are you going to be incorporating in the seat to the cage?

Nope. Custom bracketry and fitting done for the Racetech seat. Sliders also. Much more room in this car than in a Miata.

robits325is

01-20-2010, 01:51 PM

Nope. Custom bracketry and fitting done for the Racetech seat. Sliders also. Much more room in this car than in a Miata.

What sliders are you using? We had some FIA sliders in one of our rental cars and tech wouldn't pass the car.

ulfelder

01-20-2010, 04:21 PM

What sliders are you using? We had some FIA sliders in one of our rental cars and tech wouldn't pass the car.

We're using Sparco sliders, is that what you used? Thanks for the heads-up, as we haven't fully committed yet (the sliders are just tacked). Also, who gunned you down, was it Scott?

Steve

ulfelder

01-20-2010, 04:26 PM

A few more pics. Those low stringers near the door sills should prevent anybody's nose from submarining under the NASCAR bars.

Steve

robits325is

01-20-2010, 05:23 PM

ulfelder

01-21-2010, 07:27 AM

Thanks Rob, we're going to ask him what's up.

seckerich

01-21-2010, 09:40 AM

For reference we use the FIA Sparco sliders to meet spec on all our Grand Am stuff. The tracks are full captive with positive locking on both rails so they are legal. Not up to the opinion of local tech guy. Have him show you in the book where they are not legal.

Greg Amy

01-21-2010, 09:46 AM

Have him show you in the book where they are not legal.
+1.

Sliders are not illegal. Nor are they specifically legal. All the GCR states is "securely mounted".

Protest.

Ed Funk

01-21-2010, 02:03 PM

^^^ A-effin'-MEN!!

ulfelder

01-21-2010, 02:25 PM

Thanks guys. Scott (the NER CoT) is a reasonable man; after we talk to him I will post the results here.

Steve

seckerich

01-21-2010, 03:06 PM

Keep in mind Steve that the FIA spec for seat mounts requires side mounts of 5mm aluminum or eqivilent steel thickness and proper grade bolts. The hole in the spec is that you are free to put what you want in between the side mounts and the car as long as the proper fasteners are used. Many tech guys have an opinion about sliders, but not backed up in the rules.

JoshS

01-21-2010, 06:38 PM

We're using Sparco sliders, is that what you used? Thanks for the heads-up, as we haven't fully committed yet (the sliders are just tacked). Also, who gunned you down, was it Scott?

San Francisco Region tech also wouldn't give me a logbook when I first built my car with Sparco sliders. Not because they were sliders, but because no matter what I did, I couldn't get rid of the play. The seat always rocked (and more than just a little bit.)

I ended up just removing them and mounted the seat in a fixed position.

Z3_GoCar

01-22-2010, 11:54 AM

I have a set of sliders from TC Kline that are solid without any rocking. They're most likely from Recaro.

Can't wait to hear about it in action.

Andy Bettencourt

01-22-2010, 07:41 PM

More cage.

Ron Earp

01-22-2010, 09:13 PM

Nice cage action. Being as how you're not fighting a weight issue it makes it convenient to do what you wish with respect to safety.

Andy Bettencourt

01-22-2010, 11:38 PM

Nice cage action. Being as how you're not fighting a weight issue it makes it convenient to do what you wish with respect to safety.

True. We won't skimp but I can tell you it won't be a monkey-bar set-up back there just for the sake of having more bars like some cages we see.

ulfelder

01-23-2010, 07:15 AM

True. We won't skimp but I can tell you it won't be a monkey-bar set-up back there just for the sake of having more bars like some cages we see.

Exactly. It makes more sense to build a safe cage with as little material as possible, then put the ballast where we want to put it.

Steve

Z3_GoCar

01-23-2010, 02:46 PM

I like what you're doing with the door bars. But I have one question. How are you going to get the rubber door molding back on the door frame?

Andy Bettencourt

01-23-2010, 04:09 PM

Plenty of room.

ulfelder

01-28-2010, 08:04 AM

spnkzss

01-28-2010, 09:45 AM

Cage finished, subframes out, doing the final strip so we can bolt it to the rotisserie and paint the naughty bits.

Note the asymmetry: driver's side has 2 tubes tying into the firewall, while passenger side has only 1. That's to accommodate the heater. I don't think stiffness will be a problem. :p

Looks great, but,

9.4.3. Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec
Miata, and Touring may extend ONE tube, from each front
down tube, forward to the firewall but not penetrating the firewall.

:dead_horse: what a stupid rule.

ulfelder

01-28-2010, 12:55 PM

Looks great, but,

9.4.3. Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec
Miata, and Touring may extend ONE tube, from each front
down tube, forward to the firewall but not penetrating the firewall.

My fault for inaccurate writing plus a pic from a bad angle: on the driver's side, the upper tube actually fishmouths into the lower one as a triangulating brace - it does not run all the way to the firewall.

Steve

spnkzss

01-28-2010, 12:59 PM

My fault for inaccurate writing plus a pic from a bad angle: on the driver's side, the upper tube actually fishmouths into the lower one as a triangulating brace - it does not run all the way to the firewall.

Steve
Interesting interpretation. :happy204:

benspeed

01-28-2010, 12:59 PM

Looking good!!!

ulfelder

01-28-2010, 06:23 PM

Rotisserie time!

Speed Raycer

01-28-2010, 09:12 PM

Interesting interpretation. :happy204: to a goofy rewrite of a rule that really didn't need it. Make something overly complex when it comes to safety. Cage looks great!

Knestis

01-28-2010, 09:49 PM

ulfelder

02-04-2010, 03:18 PM

Department of Thankless Tasks: Shiny underside means undercoating's gone!

dj10

02-04-2010, 03:31 PM

Department of Thankless Tasks: Shiny underside means undercoating's gone!

Question #1 what did you use to get it off?
#2 want to do mine? :)

JoshS

02-04-2010, 03:49 PM

Given how much ballast you're going to have to add, why remove all of that weight that was down as low as it could go?

dj10

02-04-2010, 04:14 PM

Not just low Josh but maybe it's needed else where to balance the car better. I'd bet there was 50# of undercoating on that car and it's small.

lateapex911

02-04-2010, 06:25 PM

Interesting interpretation. :happy204:
Gussets and extra tubes within the cage are free....

spnkzss

02-05-2010, 09:30 AM

Gussets and extra tubes within the cage are free....

Interpretation may not have been the right word. Did mean to come across "gray". Just interesting, meaning, wish I thought of it :D

ulfelder

02-05-2010, 04:11 PM

Question #1 what did you use to get it off?
#2 want to do mine? :)

1. Wire wheel, heat, elbow grease.
2. There's a guy here with a sore elbow, give him a few days ...

Steve

ulfelder

02-05-2010, 04:33 PM

Given how much ballast you're going to have to add, why remove all of that weight that was down as low as it could go?

1. Pickiness - the paint will go on easier and look better with a smooth tub.
2. Flexibility in case of a future class and/or weight change.

Steve

dj10

02-05-2010, 04:47 PM

Steve, I heard dry ice is also good. Hold it on there and they undercoating just pops off. Just don't stick your tongue on the dry ice. ;~)

joeg

02-06-2010, 11:07 AM

Unfortunately, dry ice is not what it is cracked up to be. Liquid Nitrogen is the nuts in cold removal technique.

I use chemicals and a Dynazip for schutz removal.

ulfelder

02-12-2010, 10:09 PM

Now it can be told: the car is actually a top-secret development mule for ITF(lintstones). I'm in position, making VTEC noises. Now all I need are 4 guys with thick-soled shoes to be my axles (and brakes!).

Steve

dj10

02-12-2010, 11:46 PM

I think your in the wrong spot. :~)

JLawton

02-13-2010, 08:44 AM

You need AJ making race car sounds of one lap of Mid Ohio.......... Who's got that video? It's a classic!!

Andy Bettencourt

02-26-2010, 05:50 PM

Parts are rolling in. Wait until you see the intake in impound. It's gonna blow your mind.

Tristan Smith

02-27-2010, 10:22 AM

Nice header! Custom, or off the shelf?

dj10

02-27-2010, 10:25 AM

Parts are rolling in. Wait until you see the intake in impound. It's gonna blow your mind.

Whats the big deal, doesn't it have to be the stock intake?

Andy Bettencourt

02-27-2010, 03:23 PM

Whats the big deal, doesn't it have to be the stock intake?

AIR intake. :)

Andy Bettencourt

02-27-2010, 03:29 PM

Nice header! Custom, or off the shelf?

It's off the shelf. As you can imagine, tons of choices for these cars. We picked the best header according to dyno sheets and reviews...the same with the intake.

benspeed

02-28-2010, 09:38 AM

I've been scraping glue out of the interior of my car. I figure I had to remove the rug and make it look like a real race car. Hell, been snowed in so why not?

Kerosene works great - just use a charcoal filtering mask and major ventilation. I'll have to buy more weight to add to the car :-(

So Steve - Andy send you my dyno sheets?!?!

Andy Bettencourt

02-28-2010, 10:21 AM

Here is the stock header. Any wonder that these things are maxed out? LOL

Tristan Smith

02-28-2010, 12:07 PM

so what kind of gains does this new header get you?

Andy Bettencourt

02-28-2010, 12:31 PM

so what kind of gains does this new header get you?

No idea. Car is not near the dyno for tuning yet.

ulfelder

03-23-2010, 07:36 PM

After 8 years in a bright green race car, I was ready for a change: white and red (Japan's traditional racing colors) with black accents (including the roof).

Tom Kelly at Precision Motorsports, Bellingham, MA, who does all our bodywork, did his usual stellar job prepping and shooting.

lateapex911

03-23-2010, 08:00 PM

Jeebus. Nice. Put some UG wheels on that thing and you'll have 35 yr olds everywhere reaching for towels...

maluch

04-22-2010, 02:10 PM

can you tell me what sized tubing you used for the roll cage?

I myself am preparing to build an ap1 for itr and am confused about some of the regulations...the weight used for deciding the tube sizing is without fuel and without the driver while the classification weight is as raced with driver and fuel?? if that is correct i could use 1.625x0.120 alloy. Am i interpretting the rules correctly?

sorry for partial thread hijack...the car looks great, something to aspire to...

Greg Amy

04-22-2010, 02:16 PM

Required rollcage tubing is per the cars' classified weight; in the case of the ITR S2000 that's 3005#.

maluch

04-22-2010, 02:20 PM

it says in the GCR-148 "for the purposes of determining tubing sizes, the vehicle weight is as raced without fuel and driver"

my question is: is the 3005 with driver and fuel, how is that number measured?

Greg Amy

04-22-2010, 02:48 PM

You're looking at the 2007 rules, which only apply to existing-logbooked cars.

If you're building a new car, you need to start on page 88.

GA

Andy Bettencourt

05-28-2010, 11:43 PM

Final assembly....

Ed Funk

05-29-2010, 06:31 AM

So what's with the carbon fiber intake tract? Looks like a moderately misshapen 38 DDD!:D

red986s

06-01-2010, 09:19 AM

Looking good! :023:

tdw6974

06-01-2010, 10:37 AM

:DWill the S2000 be attending New jersey event this weekend? T Weaver:eclipsee_steering:

disquek

06-01-2010, 12:30 PM

Holley Helmholtz Batman, that's one heck of an intake.

Did it come with a giant "TYPE R" sticker? :D

-Kyle

lateapex911

06-01-2010, 02:50 PM

So what's with the carbon fiber intake tract? Looks like a moderately misshapen 38 DDD!:D

Wow, just "moderately"????

maluch

06-22-2010, 05:05 PM

the enkei wheels come in a +40 offset only, how do you plan on fitting them without pulling the fenders?

mossaidis

06-22-2010, 05:14 PM

So what's with the carbon fiber intake tract? Looks like a moderately misshapen 38 DDD!:D

tGA affectionity calls those JDM carbon intake pieces... a whale penis. I was thinking about getting one of my own for ~$250 just to look cool and be made fun of .... more :)

Z3_GoCar

06-23-2010, 12:10 AM

Ah yes, whale fore-skin used on the bar stools in aristotle onassis' yacht "christina O"

ulfelder

06-28-2010, 04:16 PM

So close! Testing Thursday at NHMS.

Steve

Andy Bettencourt

06-28-2010, 04:47 PM

the enkei wheels come in a +40 offset only, how do you plan on fitting them without pulling the fenders?

Fender lips rolled with a professional tool. Barely fit but no pulling needed. 245mm Hoosier.

mossaidis

06-28-2010, 04:53 PM

congrats!! it looks awesome!

jlucas

07-04-2010, 10:12 AM

So close! Testing Thursday at NHMS.

Steve

So....... how did it go.....

ulfelder

07-09-2010, 06:31 AM

So....... how did it go.....

Oof, it didn't (isn't). I signed up for NHMS, then the WGI National, positive I would hit one or the other. But I underestimated how tired I'd be after a week's vacation overseas, so yet another weekend goes by ... :(

Here's a livery shot to wet your whistle.

mossaidis

07-09-2010, 09:13 AM

boo... sorry for the sad news. WGI on 7/24-25?

ulfelder

07-09-2010, 10:33 AM

boo... sorry for the sad news. WGI on 7/24-25?

Not for me - that's a big take-the-kids-to-camp weekend. But I might twist Andy's arm to shake the car down that weekend. You think it'll require much twisting? :p

Steve

mazdagt3

07-10-2010, 07:07 PM

Not for me - that's a big take-the-kids-to-camp weekend. But I might twist Andy's arm to shake the car down that weekend. You think it'll require much twisting? :p

Steve

well get someone to drive it!. our's made its debut at NJMP today....IN THE RAIN! :D

hope you like goin sideways! :023:

benspeed

07-12-2010, 09:39 AM

Marc's S2000 was pretty stout - very good under braking - that man likes to make that car squirm out of the corners.

ulfelder

07-26-2010, 08:55 AM

So I guess this thread is a wrap! As you can see elsewhere, Nick took the car for its shakedown at the Glen, and we're very happy with it. Still plenty of work to do on spring/shock combos and the eternal quest for power, but it seems to be a nice little hotrod.

Me, I finally get to drive the thing at the RAL weekend at NHMS. :026:

Steve