Best Cars - You know you're getting old....

[Ron Earp]

When you get the new GRM and think half the cars they have picked as the “Best Ever” pretty much stink. Here is the GRM "Best 25 Cars Ever" list.


Miata – Hard to argue with success, even one that looks like a bar of soap.
3 Series – Good cars.
Civic, CRX, Acura – What? FWD Econobox Turdmobile as a best car ever? At least all are on one line and not taking up more space on the list.

Mustang – Been around the block and still gets it done, gotta be on the list.
911 – Enough said, it’s a winner.
Corvette – Don’t like’em but hard to argue with success or big furry guys in with black leather jackets and gold chains.
Camaro – The ultimate mullet mobile. Should come with a VH 1984 cassette. Got any rolling papers?

Mini Cooper – Let’s see, a Mini raffle on the following page, me smell advertising.
FFR Cobra – Ditto, NASA and FFR paid to get it in the top 10.
Z cars – Classic. Done it all and can still do most of it. Good pick.
VW GTI – I didn’t get it in the 80s, I don’t get it now. What is 'best ever' about 110hp in a box?

RX7/RX8 – Classic car, great pick. Plus you get to use the word Wankel a lot.

Subaru Impreza – Taking up space on the list but better than a FWD Sheetbox.
SRF – It is ugly but popular, good pick. But didn't FV sort of start Spec racing?
MR2 – Should be replaced by the NSX.

Lotus Elise – What about the Lotus that put Lotus on the map, the Esprit, Elan, or 7?
Mitsubishi Lancer – Jesus says enough FWD S-box.
DSM – At least some versions of these had some balls. Best of the Shitebox picks.
Dodge Neon – Shoulda been a GLH turbo here, something with balls. Neons are gay.
Honda S2000 – My motorcycle has more torque. At least it drives the correct wheels. Nice try but no cookie.
Boxster – Sure is better than a Celica, thumbs up.
Toyota Celica/Corolla – FWD Econobox Turdmobile. And bests a Supra? Come on.

Nissan Sentra SE-R – Another FWD Econobox Turdmobile. And ahead of a Viper? Nooooooo…….
Viper – what the hell is it doing down here at 24? Top ten for sure.
Volvo 2/7 – At least it is last on the list, I’m shocked.

If the GRM picks are any indication, I'm old, over the hill, and out of touch.

[Xian]

Thanks Ron, I needed a laugh! :lol:

[Ron Earp]

I just don't get it. Best. Cars. Ever. And there are eight FWD economy cars on the list. No offense now, I'm an old fogey, but like damn, Best Cars Ever?

Porsche 917? Ford GT40? - Just two of many mighty icons that left a mark on motorsports and sports cars forever. Nope, not on the list. Okay okay, a bit too heady you say, a bit too unobtainium.

Step it down a few notches. What about the Porsche 944? Certainly more influential than a Toyota Corolla.

How about rename the article "Best 25 Cars Ever That Our Primary Readership and Demographic Might Be Able to Afford if They Could Quit Wasting Time on the Internet ,Quit Drinking, and Hold Down a Real Job". Guilty as charged.

[pballance]

You are too young Ron, you should have included a 64-5 GTO in that mix, or maybe a Pantera. :)

I'm with you though, the list doesn't reflect the "old school" in my opinion. If you are going to include econoboxes, then why not the 510? It seems to me that everyone tried to copy it in some manner. And what about the Javelin. Shouldn't it be on the list?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5FuQ_K7PwLs/SS_40CYClJI/AAAAAAAAAwU/oWLBOncSIpc/65%20GTO%20web.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5FuQ_K7PwLs/SS_45czFT-I/AAAAAAAAAwc/CMy_ngrb9fU/s720/ballanc-R1-E003.jpg

[Ron Earp]

I'm with you though, the list doesn't reflect the "old school" in my opinion. If you are going to include econoboxes, then why not the 510?

I completely agree. If we're going "economy" then the 510 should be there. BMW 2002 for setting off some of that small car sedan action.

What about the 240sx - dubbed the best handling car by many a magazine in the early 90s. Nope, not there.

Like I said, I'm too old to appreciate the list.

[Greg Amy]

If the GRM picks are any indication, I'm old, over the hill, and out of touch.
I agree... ;)

Remember the title: Grassroots Motorsports. Think: audience. These are the "best cars ever" both in their context, and in the ability of Every Man to own. Oh, yeah, the 917 was an awesome car, but unless I miss my mark, neither you nor I will ever own one (I certainly won't). But if you were old enough to remember the absolute DREGS of cars available on the showroom floor in 1982, then you think of the Rabbit GTi with a heart flutter and a smile. And each one of those cars on that list, taken chronologically, are yet an improvement on that whole concept.

Good list. Read it with a smile.

GA

[lawtonglenn]

http://forums.audiworld.com/picture.php?albumid=51154&pictureid=153341

[Ron Earp]

Sorry Glenn, apparently the Quattro wasn't as influential or cool as the Toyota Corolla or Nissan Sentra. Thing is, I bet a Quattro can be had cheaper than a fifteen year old Sentra. There goes the affordability argument.

[lawtonglenn]

.

I wonder how long it would have taken for the STi or EvoIX or any of the other super awd econoboxes to develop without the ur-quattro.

I wonder where would the entire line of Subaru, or the entire brand of Audi would be without the ur-quattro.

I wonder if only superstrosphere cars like the 959 or Diablo would have been awd without the ur-quattro. Most likely BMW's xi and MB's 4matic would never have been become common.

I wonder how many husbands, wives, and daughters would have been less safe in snow over the past 25 years without the ur-quattro.

But then again.....I withdraw my comments, who wouldn't prefer this:

.
http://www.shiotsu-used-car.com/blogpics/First-Toyota-Corolla.jpg

.

[Ron Earp]

.
But then again.....I withdraw my comments, who wouldn't prefer this:

.
http://www.shiotsu-used-car.com/blogpics/First-Toyota-Corolla.jpg

.

Be real careful now. Start posting stuff like that and the guys on RoadRaceAutoX get a hold of it and you'll be in trouble. Those guys get a woody over a CVCC or a Type RRRRRRRRRRRRgghh. Speaking of which, how can the Type RRRRg not be on a list like that, like the first five positions, one for each model year?

[quadzjr]

luckliy a toyota doesn't have VTEC or CVCC.. so it is safe to make fun of.

also.. I think the MR2 is a much better car than the NSX. MR2 lasts longer (my street car has 265k on all orignal motor) , it's cheaper, it's more nimble, it's easier to work on, it raced far more often, at the time of the release TRD came out with a book to make it faster though tey admited it was for (off-road/racing use only), it doesn't having oiling issues, after the first year suspension was de-tuned to help dumb american drivers.

sure the NSX is faster, but I can't fit in it. Therefore it does nothign for me :)

[Ron Earp]

luckliy a toyota doesn't have VTEC or CVCC.. so it is safe to make fun of.

Christian taught me you have to write VTEC, Yo!

You've got to learn to follow the rules or you'll get in trouble. I'm not sure if you have to use Yo! with CVCC but I bet you do. CVCC Yo!

[quadzjr]

CVCC, Yo! :happy204:

in the mid eighties the corrola and the MR2 had "TVIS". well... when it worked.

[RacerBill]

My vote goes with a 1965-69 Chevy Corvair Corsa (4 single barrels or turbo). My first car was the NA type - loved that car! And if you read Nader's book carefully, he actually liked the 65-69's with the independent rear suspension.

[Ron Earp]

But if you were old enough to remember the absolute DREGS of cars available on the showroom floor in 1982, then you think of the Rabbit GTi with a heart flutter and a smile.

Well now, I'm not that old! :)

Circa 1982 I was still nerding out tossing around some 20 siders trying to figure out if I'd managed to kill that Orc or not.

[quadzjr]

crica 1982 (depending on the month) I was either known for my ability to kick or not able to sleep through the night.:D

[Z3_GoCar]

Well now, I'm not that old! :)

Circa 1982 I was still nerding out tossing around some 20 siders trying to figure out if I'd managed to kill that Orc or not.

Oh, and you rolled a 5.... Dungeon Master says: That's four hit-points off your Elvish-Fighter-Mage, or would you rather roll again and loose one of his legs.

My cousin was a mean dungeon master, but I always enjoyed a good game of car wars :cool:

[Xian]

Christian taught me you have to write VTEC, Yo!

Dat's right boyeeeee! ;)


You've got to learn to follow the rules or you'll get in trouble. I'm not sure if you have to use Yo! with CVCC but I bet you do. CVCC Yo!Not sure about the use of "Yo!" in relation to CVCC but it can't hurt to be safe... also, FWIW, if you're ever talking about racing someone and then beating them when you hit VTEC (Yo!), it's also permissible to refer to it as "V-Attack", Yo!

Now, in relation to the cars on the list. Definitely a couple on there that have me scratching my head... I guess the "big" thing is to keep it in the context of the GRM readers (although that's less fun). :p Here's my take on them:



Miata – Hard to argue with success, even one that looks like a bar of soap. [Owned one, see the appeal, wish I liked them but not for me]

3 Series – Good cars. [x2, tough to argue with this. Each generation seems to bring something new to the table. Not always "good" but at least "new"]

Civic, CRX, Acura – What? FWD Econobox Turdmobile as a best car ever? At least all are on one line and not taking up more space on the list. [HEY NOW! I resemble that remark :shrug:. I think the big reason these are here is that they were an interesting confluence of cheap, fun, good mpg, and a great suspension design (for an econo-box). They also helped to jump start the entire import "thing"... for better or worse.)]

Mustang – Been around the block and still gets it done, gotta be on the list. [Yep. Definitely on that NEEDS to be on here. The Fox Body was so malleable in the hands of the aftermarket. Not an exceptional automobile but exceptional things could certainly be done to it.]

911 – Enough said, it’s a winner. [Winner, winner, chicken dinner. On my list of "must own".]

Corvette – Don’t like’em but hard to argue with success or big furry guys in with black leather jackets and gold chains. [I wasn't a fan of the Stingray or C4 chassis but they began to win me over with the C5 and newer, C6's. Not something that I'm planning to run out and buy but certainly something that I'd consider... maybe. Regardless, definitely in the top-25.]

Camaro – The ultimate mullet mobile. Should come with a VH 1984 cassette. Got any rolling papers? [The Everyman's Corvette. I've driven in them and riden in them... I thought they were big whirling piles of fale. Even when I was too dumb to know what a really good car was. Still they deserve to be here for their lineage and what they gave to America in accessible speed.]

Mini Cooper – Let’s see, a Mini raffle on the following page, me smell advertising. [Shrug. The original was groundbreaking at the time. The newer one is "meh.". I owned an 05 Cooper S for a while and once the "shiny new thing" wore off it, I was ready for something else. Too heavy for the small package and nanny-ish electronics helped kill it's likeability, IMO.]

FFR Cobra – Ditto, NASA and FFR paid to get it in the top 10. [Shrug. Not Top 25 material, IMO. Cool car but not Top-25 though.]

Z cars – Classic. Done it all and can still do most of it. Good pick. [Screw this. Only a Looooooooooser would drive a Z car. And Only a fool would race one that isn't a 240!!! Wheeeeee!!!! ;) ]

VW GTI – I didn’t get it in the 80s, I don’t get it now. What is 'best ever' about 110hp in a box? [Iconic, new, and groundbreaking at the time (from what I understand). I was in grade school FWIW. 20 years later and it's a cool in concept and execution... another variant of the Camaro but or non-muscle car guys. Accessible performance is where it's at.]

RX7/RX8 – Classic car, great pick. Plus you get to use the word Wankel a lot. [Tough to argue with this one. The RX7 deserves to be here but not the RX8, IMO.]

Subaru Impreza – Taking up space on the list but better than a FWD Sheetbox. [I ca see the WRX as being here just bc it was the rise of the "turbo rally car" in the US in 2001. The regular Impreza? No friggin' way.]

SRF – It is ugly but popular, good pick. But didn't FV sort of start Spec racing? [Sure. There are tons of these things running at tracks. Tight racing and relatively affordable. Sounds like a win to me.]

MR2 – Should be replaced by the NSX. [I'd preface this with "First Gen" MR-2. Groundbreaking in that it's another "everyman" car. This time, RWD, Mid-Engine, functional, attractive, quick, great handling, affordable, and (most importantly) RELIABLE. The NSX was a great car and did all the same stuff but was a decade later and waaaaaaaay more expensive and exclusionary.]

Lotus Elise – What about the Lotus that put Lotus on the map, the Esprit, Elan, or 7? [Important in that it marked the successful return of Lotus to America with a car that (almost entirely) works. I can see why its on here but could definitely see something like the Elise or (even moreso) the Elan in it's place.]

Mitsubishi Lancer – Jesus says enough FWD S-box. [See comments for the Impreza but it was late to the game in the states.]

DSM – At least some versions of these had some balls. Best of the Shitebox picks. [Another everyman car. AWD/Turbo for the masses built on an economies of scale across 3 brands. Cheap. Accessible. Speed.]

Dodge Neon – Shoulda been a GLH turbo here, something with balls. Neons are gay. [I'm not too sure about this one. Aside from the initial manufacturer racing support, I think there are other bigger/better cars that could hit the top-25.]

Honda S2000 – My motorcycle has more torque. At least it drives the correct wheels. Nice try but no cookie. [Cool car. Amazing product from a company known for FWD econo-boxes but I'd be hard pressed to put it into the Top-25 in the history of ev4r.]

Boxster – Sure is better than a Celica, thumbs up. [Meh. I'm not a big fan of Convertibles so maybe that's coloring my view of this one. I'd throw in something else. Maybe something from AMC or the K-Car instead?]

Toyota Celica/Corolla – FWD Econobox Turdmobile. And bests a Supra? Come on. [Yeah, Supra should be here. Throughout their generations they continued to evolve and offer high end options and performance for "relatively" little coin.]

Nissan Sentra SE-R – Another FWD Econobox Turdmobile. And ahead of a Viper? Nooooooo……. [In GRM's context, yeah, I can see it. First application with the S20DE engine here in the states. Another case of "lot's" of motor in a cheap, Plain Jane package. Cheap.Accessible. Speed.]

Viper – what the hell is it doing down here at 24? Top ten for sure. [Not that the Viper wasn't an influencial car bjut it seems out of keeping with the rest of the list (kinda like the Vette and 911). I guess they're relatively cheap nowadays like the other "expensive" cars on the list.]

Volvo 2/7 – At least it is last on the list, I’m shocked. [Definitely worth having on the list. There were/are tons of these things on the road. Amazing, iconic product.]


Christian

[RacerBill]

Ah ha! My copy of GRM just arrived today. The headline for #19 was written wrong! It should have been 'Omni and Neon'! They talked about the Shelby Dodges (without calling them their formal name) more than the Neons. Too bad we have to run the turbo equiped versions in ITE. Two and four-door Omnis have the potential to be front running ITB's when properly developed and on the drag strip, they are still running 12 second quarters in stock form.

[Ron Earp]

Dat's right boyeeeee! ;)

Not sure about the use of "Yo!" in relation to CVCC but it can't hurt to be safe... also, FWIW, if you're ever talking about racing someone and then beating them when you hit VTEC (Yo!), it's also permissible to refer to it as "V-Attack", Yo!


Has anyone ever beaten anybody with a VTEC motor in the stop light drags? Haven't seen that happen. :D

[quadzjr]

Has anyone ever beaten anybody with a VTEC motor in the stop light drags? Haven't seen that happen. :D

IF you are racing against someone that you think might have the V-tec Yo. You must flip all three switches and press a big red button before he goes into V-attack, Yo. :rolleyes:

[Lael Cleland]

Every car that I made out in, or F*&$% in should be on that list.....maybe not...77 Newport, not so hot.....

AUDI needs to be on the list! I race an 84 GTi and it makes me smile... BUT my A4 Quattro is the funnest car I have ever owned!
The 510 should be there....

[Ron Earp]

IF you are racing against someone that you think might have the V-tec Yo! You must flip all three switches and press a big red button before he goes into V-attack, Yo. :rolleyes:

Or what will happen in V-attack mode???? He'll make 200 hp? Whoa.

I just push down on the go fast pedal and let the blower Yo! take care of 'em.


Every car that I made out in, or F*&$% in should be on that list..
..

Totally agree, those are truly the best cars of all time.

[Xian]

Or what will happen in V-attack mode???? He'll make 200 hp? Whoa.

Let me talk with you about HP/CC... every Honda fanboi's favorite subject ;)

Christian, who'll note that it's probably more like 175whp and maybe 125 ft-lbs... V-ATTACK FTMFW, yO!!1

[Ron Earp]

Let me talk with you about HP/CC... every Honda fanboi's favorite subject ;)


Well, until Honda starts building 575 inch motors (that'd be 9.4L for you Import guys) I don't think we're in danger.

V-ATTACK FTMFW, yO! - I love it! :)

[Marcus Miller]

Have both of you guys lost your minds?


Marcus <-- proud owner of a couple 68 Mustangs in his spare time

[R2 Racing]

If the GRM picks are any indication, I'm old, over the hill, and out of touch.
Jesus, ya think?! Read that article again, and realize that it was "25 Best Cars From the Past 25 Years".

And also realize that the Integra Type R is an ITR car, and your 280Z is an ITS car, and that those "econobox turdmobile" ITA Civic/CRX/Integra's are probably going faster than your ITS car too. Don't hate Ron, congratulate.:cool:

I owned a bone stock ITR for 5.5 years, and then replaced it with a supercharged E36 M3 that I've now had for 4.5 years. Now don't get me wrong, I love my M3, but last weekend while out in SoCal exploring some of the fantastic canyon/mountain passes out there (in my sweet Chevy Malibu rental car!), I found myself thinking "I wish I had my ITR right now." and not my M3. Hands down the most fun, shit-eating-grin inducing car I've ever driven on a track or in the hills. Thinking it's a stop-light racer is f'ing dumb, because that's not its point.


/overly biased post :024:

[Xian]

Have both of you guys lost your minds?


Do you really even need to ask? :happy204:

[Ron Earp]

1984 is the starting year for the top 25 and if I’m sticking to the affordable best cars ever. Now, in no particular order I’d give the top 25 to:


RX7 – Excellent platforms for street/track
Supra Turbo and NA – Why was this car left off the list anyhow?
Ford Mustang GT/SVO/Cobra – Can do it all with $ infusion
Chevy Camaro / Pontiac Firebird – Same as above
Buick Grand National – Cool car
Chevy Corvette – C5s and up are great cars
Mazda Miata – Success.
Dodge GLH – Cool nerdy fast fun machine
Dodge Viper – Needs no explanation
Porsche 911 – an affordable performance classic
BMW E36/E46 3-Series and M3 - Iconic
Acura Integra including Type Arrgghh and other variants – Hey, even FWD sheetboxes can be ok
Toyota MR2 – innovative and lots better than the Fiero
Lotus Esprit(s) – Various ones, cheap to buy/own, good looks / power
Subrau WRX – Started the mass appeal of 4WD Turbo action
BMW E39 5 Series / M5 – Great 4 door sedans
Pontiac GTO – Inexpensive power and good quality in a plain wrapper
Ford Taurus SHO – Weirdness but a fast FWD 4 door that was successful in the 1st iteration
Honda CRX Si – no power but light, agile, and novel
Porsche 944 – The winningest Porsche ever
Nissan 240sx – Great handling car, strong motor, an import that drives the correct wheels
Acura NSX – Mid-engine V6 goodness in a cool looking package
Audi S4s – Various flavors, fast, AWD fun
VW Golf/Jetta IVs – 1.8T or VR6 power, good canvass to build on
Jaguar XKR – powerful, good looks, durable, great GT touring car

Not sure about that last one but I have visions buying one and converting it to a six speed manual.