View Full Version : Ita 92 civic hatchback dx ?
andysland
09-19-2009, 01:23 PM
Hello everyone Im new to the site I was refered by a friend that has been racing scca for a long time. So here is the question I have a 92 civic hatchback dx with a 1.5L and in the hand book I'm put in the same class as the civic SI crx which has a 1.6L and is light what would I have to do to get the advantage on him if anything. And is there any other 92-96 hb out there because I keep searching but come up with no one is there a reason is it not a competive car? I would think so with the weight to power ratio. I heard that they might put us in itb? Can I get some input please.....
Thanks
Knestis
09-19-2009, 01:36 PM
The IT advisory board recommended moving this car to B in June. The Club Racing Board will make the final decision.
K
If the car doesn't get bumped down to ITB, you might look at "converting" your car to Si specs and running it in ITA. It's not been shown to be the car to have but might be more competitive than with the DX engine.
R2 Racing
09-20-2009, 10:53 PM
I've been waiting for two years for that car to be moved to ITB. The recommendation has been made by the ITAC, but it's now in the CRB's hands, so we continue to wait. Hopefully soon.
Other option, like Christian said, is to convert it to a Si and run it in ITA. However, the Si had power steering and a sunroof, so good luck with that.
quadzjr
09-21-2009, 10:44 AM
We are also waiting on that decision. One of our guys is building one, I doubt highly that you could get it down to the spec weight with et1.5L in ITA.. but I have been wrong before. We have stripped eveything, and hopefully in the next month will see how much it weighs with the 1.5L in it.
almskidd
10-01-2009, 11:12 AM
The DX 92-95 civic just got moved into ITB and the weight is 2345. Seems the hatachback should be easy to get to that weight. Hopefully that d15b7 will respond well to exhaust, if so it should be fine in ITB at that weight.
By the way I am building the DX that quadzjr was talking about. I'll have it on wheels in the next few weeks and then in november it will be out on the track at roebling during an HPDE. We will see how it does.
Niiice. Should be a good car for the class.
iambhooper
10-15-2009, 07:11 AM
keep us in the know on how it turns out
hoop
mossaidis
10-15-2009, 10:29 AM
The DX 92-95 civic just got moved into ITB and the weight is 2345. Seems the hatachback should be easy to get to that weight. Hopefully that d15b7 will respond well to exhaust, if so it should be fine in ITB at that weight.
By the way I am building the DX that quadzjr was talking about. I'll have it on wheels in the next few weeks and then in november it will be out on the track at roebling during an HPDE. We will see how it does.
I was able to get my ITA 92 si down to 2080 w/o ballast, human and gas. The DX should make weight EASY!
Good luck! Let us know if you need any more help!
almskidd
11-16-2009, 12:08 PM
My car did very well at Savannah last weekend. No significant problems. I need a lot more spring rate all around, but that was to be expected ( I went kinda weak because I was scaried of killing my brand new, first time on the track, race car. Plus I had never been on slicks before and didn't know what to expect. ;-P ). Anyway car seems to be fine. I on the other hand need work!
mossaidis
11-16-2009, 12:10 PM
CONGRATS! what spring rates again?
quadzjr
11-17-2009, 11:57 AM
what makes you think you need more spring? I never saw the tires going positive camber or really any real body rol. you were just barely lifting the inside rear wheel on the off-camber stuff during braking. when I was behind you. I was using your car as a baseline. In comparison I had much more body roll.
coming out of 4... BTW.. Josh you did really well. car was running decent times, and was hardly using the tires.. I wish the same could be said about me.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1/quadzjr/mr2civic.jpg
What rates/bars are you guys running currently?
Knestis
11-17-2009, 03:24 PM
It is GREAT to see that car with an ITB on the side. A super addition to the class, I think.
K
quadzjr
11-17-2009, 04:26 PM
What rates/bars are you guys running currently?
I know what he is running, but whehter or not he wants to share I will let him do it. I am on 450/450 and in the pic I may have been 400/450. With my motion ratio being significatly higher than say a civic. I can get away with relativley softer springs.
It is GREAT to see that car with an ITB on the side. A super addition to the class, I think.
K
It was pretty cool, the car did great for a junkyard motor with new rings, no prep, and little drive time. lasted the whole weekend with no issues... Other than when he decided to stuff the turn 1 infield into the bead. :)
ITA_honda
11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
I agree with Kirk...that is pretty cool! :happy204:
R2 Racing
11-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Stole my paint job!
iambhooper
11-17-2009, 11:13 PM
cool... a sedan! nice! i like the touring car approach. those things are rather cheap arent they? definately different. if you eve make to VIR, look me up. the ITB fields have been in the neighborhood of 6-8 cars, so there is plenty of rrom for more.
any difficulties in turning that into a race car?
hoop
almskidd
11-18-2009, 01:08 PM
cool... a sedan! nice! i like the touring car approach. those things are rather cheap arent they? definately different. if you eve make to VIR, look me up. the ITB fields have been in the neighborhood of 6-8 cars, so there is plenty of rrom for more.
any difficulties in turning that into a race car?
hoop
No problems at all thanks to the trackspeed crew (Chip, Steve and Dave) and Rafy. They helped me out in every capacity and are the only reason I was able to get the car to this point so fast.
By no means is the car ready for tech inspect but the important parts are there and working and I have plunty of time to finish it up before school.
almskidd
11-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Stole my paint job!
I love my orange paint job
It is GREAT to see that car with an ITB on the side. A super addition to the class, I think.
K
Thanks. I hope to be doing well out there.
what makes you think you need more spring? I never saw the tires going positive camber or really any real body rol. you were just barely lifting the inside rear wheel on the off-camber stuff during braking. when I was behind you. I was using your car as a baseline. In comparison I had much more body roll.
coming out of 4... BTW.. Josh you did really well. car was running decent times, and was hardly using the tires.. I wish the same could be said about me.
I think a little more up front would possible help with the inside rear lifting. But before I go changing rates I have a number of things to do to help with that. Mainly I was concerned with the locking of the wheel. I am hoping to get that to stop or somehow minimize it. I am running 500 up front and 700 in the rear. The rear sway is an ASR 32mm hollow (beautiful peice).
Sounds like you've got a good starting point for the setup. You might want to pick the brains of some of the Integra (DC2) guys. I know they run considerably stiffer all the way around.
How much air are you getting under the rear tire? Is the inside rear locking up under braking all the time or is it just when you're "carrying" it in the air thru the turns?
Out of curiousity, any idea on the specs for the ASR piece (diameter, wall thickness, arm length)? I'm running a custom Speedway rear bar currently and wondered how the two compare.
Christian
almskidd
11-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Sounds like you've got a good starting point for the setup. You might want to pick the brains of some of the Integra (DC2) guys. I know they run considerably stiffer all the way around.
How much air are you getting under the rear tire? Is the inside rear locking up under braking all the time or is it just when you're "carrying" it in the air thru the turns?
Out of curiousity, any idea on the specs for the ASR piece (diameter, wall thickness, arm length)? I'm running a custom Speedway rear bar currently and wondered how the two compare.
Christian
32mm OD, 3mm wall, arm is adjustable to between 6 or 7 inches and 3 or 4 inches. The bar is only slightly shorter than the distance between the two rear lower control arm mounts.
I am most likely going to move up to 600/800 or 700/900 in the future.
I was told the rear could be locking up because of the drum brakes needing adjustment, but i know only the basics about how a drum brake works so i'll just have to trust them on this one.
Gotcha. FWIW, yours converts to ~1.25" diameter, .120 wall bar offered by speedway. In their range that's a pretty "middle of the road" bar so if you decide to go softer or harder, you may have some options thru them. I'm running the same size bar but with a bit more adjustment options on the arm length.
I ran my CRX at 500/700 and have to say that my Civic at 700/1000 is actually smoother over bumps... IMO, the higher rates pay dividends when you start hopping curbs as the suspension bottoms out less.
Both my CRX and Civic were/are drum cars. Are you locking them up under straight line braking at all? Or is the issue only apparent when one of the rears has been in the air? If it's the latter, I wouldn't worry about it... the small puff of smoke at touchdown shouldn't hurt anything at all. Its unusual to have rear drums adjusted tightly enough that you'd have premature rear lockup... this is b/c with them adjusted "out" too far, you'll have trouble getting the drum back over them. More often, I'd find that I needed to ratchet up a click or two on the parking brake to start pre-loading them as they got hot and wore as the race went on... what rear shoes are on the car? Stock type?
raffaelli
11-21-2009, 12:38 PM
My son introduced the rear of his 92 dx hatch to a tree yesterday. Need parts?
almskidd
12-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Gotcha. FWIW, yours converts to ~1.25" diameter, .120 wall bar offered by speedway. In their range that's a pretty "middle of the road" bar so if you decide to go softer or harder, you may have some options thru them. I'm running the same size bar but with a bit more adjustment options on the arm length.
I ran my CRX at 500/700 and have to say that my Civic at 700/1000 is actually smoother over bumps... IMO, the higher rates pay dividends when you start hopping curbs as the suspension bottoms out less.
Both my CRX and Civic were/are drum cars. Are you locking them up under straight line braking at all? Or is the issue only apparent when one of the rears has been in the air? If it's the latter, I wouldn't worry about it... the small puff of smoke at touchdown shouldn't hurt anything at all. Its unusual to have rear drums adjusted tightly enough that you'd have premature rear lockup... this is b/c with them adjusted "out" too far, you'll have trouble getting the drum back over them. More often, I'd find that I needed to ratchet up a click or two on the parking brake to start pre-loading them as they got hot and wore as the race went on... what rear shoes are on the car? Stock type?
The rear shoes are 913's from carbotech. I don't think they were locking up when i was braking straight. So maybe it was just that I unloaded that tire enough that it would lock. I was lifting the inside rear in a number of turns. I still have a lot of work to do before the car is setup anyway so I am not going to worry about it. yet. Also they were brand new and did not have a brake in period yet. Thanks for the help though.
Knestis
12-07-2009, 07:07 PM
We run stock pads on the back of the Golf and still get lock-up on the inside trail-braking into a corner. Anything with any initial bite is going to be a problem in that respect. (EDIT - on a FWD car)
K
What Kirk said. If you're having the rears lockup prematurely (i.e. before they "lift off" the ground on corner entry), you might want to try stock or stock equivalent pads to reduce braking torque back there.
almskidd
12-08-2009, 05:14 PM
will do. thanks guys.
almskidd
05-06-2010, 11:32 AM
During my SCCA School I locked up the rear tires ALOT, while still going straight, at turn 1 at Roebling. I scaried the hell out of my friends (and probably the students directly behind me) a number of times because of the HUGE amount of smoke the RA-1s were throwing up. I ended up replaceing the 913's from carbotech with Advance auto parts "good" shoes. That alleaviated the lock up problem in the rear. I'll just have to keep an eye on them and keep an extra set of shoes around just incase.
R2 Racing
05-06-2010, 02:01 PM
Our '92 H/B has completed its transition into an ITB DX. Drivetrain is built and dyno'd. On a brand new motor, it did ~4-5whp less than the typical "average hp/lb" ratio of ITB. I'm hoping that after I get it out and run a weekend on it, it'll break in some more and that power number will come up a little bit. As it is, you're not winning an ARRC in it. I may take it out, shake it down, and break it in at Mid Ohio during the Friday test day before the May 22-23rd National. If I do, we'll see how it's breaking in and how it's doing.
quadzjr
05-06-2010, 02:36 PM
if you were 4-5 shy that means you were at
2345lb/17(lb/hp)-5hp * 0.85(to convert to from hp to whp)
~113whp?
R2 Racing
05-06-2010, 06:32 PM
if you were 4-5 shy that means you were at
2345lb/17(lb/hp)-5hp * 0.85(to convert to from hp to whp)
~113whp?
:023:
113.3whp to be exact. Torque was real close to the same number. I'd love to just make the "average" of ~117-118whp, as you know it'll be one of the better handling and braking cars out there. It'll come up a little as it gets broken in, but we'll have to wait and see how much.
Chip42
05-13-2010, 09:18 AM
out of curiosity, Kevin is this an all out build or "standard bolt-ons with a well done engine rebuild,chipped P06, etc?"
what ECU, header, etc... got you there? I'm happy to hear that the car is close to the target, especially given that it was weighted with larger than the standard expected gain (16v and all that).:happy204:
keep it up!
R2 Racing
05-13-2010, 10:06 AM
out of curiosity, Kevin is this an all out build or "standard bolt-ons with a well done engine rebuild,chipped P06, etc?"
what ECU, header, etc... got you there? I'm happy to hear that the car is close to the target, especially given that it was weighted with larger than the standard expected gain (16v and all that).:happy204:
keep it up!
It's pretty much everything I know how to do. I actually can't think of anything this car doesn't have versus my ITA Integra. Full Hondata S300 tune, AN-R header, full IT engine. Like I said, I'm planning on taking it out next Friday evening at Mid Ohio to shake it down and give it a break in. Should get a good feel for it then, and after that I'll hit the dyno again to see if I can improve on the numbers. Hopefully it comes up a couple more.
KMartin
05-13-2010, 08:45 PM
Kevin, hopefully I will see you out there. Hoping to get the ITR RSX out for a shakedown Friday night. Was gonna do the race but no other ITR cars are registered. At least I can get some laps on it prior to IT Fest..
R2 Racing
07-25-2010, 10:07 PM
Like I said, I'm planning on taking it out next Friday evening at Mid Ohio to shake it down and give it a break in. Should get a good feel for it then, and after that I'll hit the dyno again to see if I can improve on the numbers. Hopefully it comes up a couple more.
Just to give a little update on this, I never did end up taking the car out that evening, as I needed the sessions to do some testing in my FP Integra instead. My Dad did end up driving it though, but just drove around at ~80% and turning good ITC times. He said he liked the way it fealt, handled and seemed to pull well. This coming weekend he will be racing it at Mid Ohio for the first time during The IT Festival. If anyone cares to know, we ended up needing to bolt in 135lbs of ballast in order to make weight with my 255lb Dad in the car. Yeah, that's a lot. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get the car back to the dyno to see if the power numbers have come up, but the leakdown and compression numbers did (of course) improve after getting to run a couple sessions. We'll run it again this weekend to break it in some more, and then it'll get another dyno treatment. After that, I personally may run it at the September Mid Ohio double regional just to try it out.
Steven McWilliams Jr
07-26-2010, 08:45 PM
Sounds like you built a pretty stout car Kevin. I'm just wandering for the ITA Teg, or the civic, how much weight you had to put in the car. With my ITA 89 Civic Si, I do not need any weight with all fluids, me at 200lbs, and 1/3 of a tank of gas(I think) my fuel gauge is a little iffy, so I think with maybe 3/8 of a tank I can be exactly 2250#. I'm just wandering if this is typical, or the previous owner put some weight somewhere other than the passenger compartement.
Thanks,
Steven
R2 Racing
07-27-2010, 10:25 PM
ITA '92 Integra RS is 2595lbs, and with me in it at 270lbs, it needs ~80lbs of ballast.
ITB '92 Civic DX is 2345lbs, and with my Dad in it at 255lbs, it needs ~135lbs of ballast.
Both of those make the car literally cough on fuel when it gets to minimum weight.
mossaidis
07-27-2010, 10:47 PM
If it helps...
ITA '92 Civic Si is 2350 (45 lbs over min weight) with me in it at 190 lbs, 7 gallons of gas and 25 lbs of ballast.
Steven McWilliams Jr
07-27-2010, 11:02 PM
If it helps...
ITA '92 Civic Si is 2350 (45 lbs over min weight) with me in it at 190 lbs, 7 gallons of gas and 25 lbs of ballast.
Yeah that helps, I think adding the ballast makes the difference. Vs what I'm doing and trying to use fuel as ballast.
Thanks,
Steven
R2 Racing
11-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Hmmm, guess I never updated this thread. Ran the car at the September Mid Ohio double regional, the October Mid Ohio double regional, and tuned in the chassis. Did A WHOLE LOT of more work to it, eeked a couple more HP & LB-FT out of it, and it's now the 2010 ITB ARRC Champion. Was one of the toughest, yet most fun races I've ever been a part of, but we came out on top. Yeah, it got pulled a little bit in a straight line against the Accord, VW, Protege, & Audi, but you can drive the ever loving crap out of it and it'll take it and do it consistently. What a fantastic little racecar.
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