July Fastrack

[Knestis]

...is up at http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/09/07/09-fastrack-july-club.pdf

Without even looking at it yet, I can tell you that some IT items went to the Board late, after our May conference call got postponed by a problem with the phone system. IT items might be thin on the ground but that will make August EXTRA fun!

:026:

K

[lateapex911]

yea, nothing for this month. But, the floodgates are beginning to open, as the last i's have been dotted and the t's crossed in our internal refinement procedure.

If you've sent a letter, don't despair, you will see something soon. And don't feel too singled out....lot's of letters have been delayed. Certain easy ones have been taken care of but many were more involved.

[quadzjr]

IT items might be thin on the ground but that will make August EXTRA fun!


K

I don't know if thin is the word.. Using the find function in adobe acrobat it didn't find a single "IT" :D

[rx7chris]

Could someone give me a hint as to the two items i sent letters about. brakes and wheels were the basis of the questions.

[Knestis]

Could someone give me a hint as to the two items i sent letters about. brakes and wheels were the basis of the questions.

Cleared a pretty good list of backlogged items on the June calls. Your requests are in the queue, Chris.

K

[ismaelae86]

whats going on with IT?? what letters have been sent in?? what do they consist of...thanks for your time
ismael

[Knestis]

Responses to letters get published in Fastrack but there's no mechanism for reporting to the membership what's currently on the agenda.

It might be a bit of an overstatement but it's pretty safe to say that if you see an issue being hotly discussed here, SOMEONE has gone to the effort to officially bring it to the attention of the Board - so it gets forwarded to the ITAC. If you see a couple of people concerned about something here, it's less likely to have percolated up to the level where anyone cares enough to write a request.

Everything that gets proposed gets considered, albeit sometimes PAINFULLY slowly, if it counts on other decisions getting made first. The ITAC has been in that position for the past year (quite literally) clarifying and getting consistent about our internal practices, which accounts for some big delays. However, other requests have been stalled because we are forced to dig for technical information, often on older cars that are not well documented.

I'll take this opportunity to (again) mention that, if you want a rule changed, you need to write your request so that it expressly describes NOT ONLY what you don't like, but what you propose should be done.

If you think something is off with a particular car's spec's, you can simply ask for it to be reviewed. If your request is going to require technical information - and most do - you'll move the process along if you provide it, in some form that can be shared electronically (e.g., pdf copies of factory manual).

Finally, remember that the Board (and the ITAC) aren't arbiters of rules interpretations. We can't comment on whether your specific idea is legal or not, or explain how WE interpret rules. That's the responsibility of the protest and appeals process.

K

[tnord]

Kirk -

A fundamental question.....is there a particular reason that "requests for input" are published in fastrack for things like the ECU change, but not for a specific spec line being reviewed?

[Bill Miller]

One thing I noticed was that it appears that IT isn't the only category that uses a process to set spec weights.

[Knestis]

Kirk -

A fundamental question.....is there a particular reason that "requests for input" are published in fastrack for things like the ECU change, but not for a specific spec line being reviewed?

Because we don't solicit feedback for "corrections." The only reason we can even DO those without waiting for the new GCR, is that they don't rise to the level of "rules changes." Anything that does is fodder for full member input.

K

[ekim952522000]

One thing I noticed was that it appears that IT isn't the only category that uses a process to set spec weights.

Yeah it looks like GT3 is getting it's own "great realignment"

[Prof. Chaos]

So the August Fastrack came out today, and I see nothing regarding IT other than a front spoiler/air dam issue from the Court of Appeals. Did I miss something?

[JoshS]

So the August Fastrack came out today, and I see nothing regarding IT other than a front spoiler/air dam issue from the Court of Appeals. Did I miss something?

Plenty of stuff came out of the last ITAC meeting but it didn't appear in Fastrack. Don't know why.

[StephenB]

how do we find out what came out of the last meeting?

[JoshS]

how do we find out what came out of the last meeting?
Officially, you have to wait for it to be published. What the ITAC does is really at the beck & call of the CRB, they actually make the decisions ... the ITAC only provides recommendations.

Unofficially if you want to know what we recommended, talk to an ITAC member privately.

[seckerich]

So I guess it is time we spoke with our BOD reps to see what the holdup is. Gets a little old to have an ITAC that is doing something and a CRB sitting on their collective asses with other more important issues. Given the list of items that have been discussed on this board and the total lack of IT items in fastrack there is something going on behind closed doors. I know some of the CRB visit this board so how about an explanation please.

[StephenB]

I have no explanation but I am thinking that In reality the National Runnoffs are a HUGE part of our "club" both from gaining exposure and gaining respect in the racing industry. IT looks like this fasttrack focused on that. I am guessing they will have more time later in the year and even though we have taken the backseat for now I don't want several things to change until the end of the season anyway. I have the rest of my year budgeted out.

Stephen

[Knestis]

That's actually several months of backlogged recommendations from the ITAC, that haven't been acted on - or have been but not announced...? I could be wrong but I unearthed one in response to a member follow-up email from - I think - the April con call, that went to the board but hasn't surfaced in Fastrack. We did miss a call due to telephony issues, and the do-over was late enough that the recommendations from that call didn't get acted on. But that was for one call.

K

[rx7chris]

Oh come on, I've been waiting for 2 months already. Simple questions don't even get answered. I guess I'm just gonna keep on going and if I get protested they'll have to address it then. I can't even express how disappointed I am right now.

[shwah]

My advice is just practice being patient. That's what this process taught me.

[RSTPerformance]

My advice is just practice being patient. That's what this process taught me.

6 Months and waitng... I like the members and know they follow-up on things but we have to admit there is a LOT of room for improvement in the process to make it more timely.

Raymond

[Knestis]

Oh come on, I've been waiting for 2 months already. Simple questions don't even get answered. I guess I'm just gonna keep on going and if I get protested they'll have to address it then. I can't even express how disappointed I am right now.

Not speaking to your specific request in particular (I honestly don't remember what it was), remember that the Board and ITAC don't do "clarifications." If there's a question about whether something is legal or illegal, that has to get ironed out in the courts. (Think judicial branch of our government.)

The board, with the ITAC's input, makes the rules - the legislature. I a member wants a rule changed, we need them to propose a change.

Just taking an opportunity for the good of the order here...

K

[JLawton]

Oh come on, I've been waiting for 2 months already. Simple questions don't even get answered. I guess I'm just gonna keep on going and if I get protested they'll have to address it then. I can't even express how disappointed I am right now.


2 Months?? Do you know how long you would have waited 2-3 years ago??? Forever!

As Kirk mentions, the ITAC doesn't answer questions. Maybe that's why you haven't gotten a response??? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong? If you have a question about legality, throw it here on IT.com.

Either way, it's not an excuse for running something you think might be illegal........


.

[Greg Amy]

I guess I'm just gonna keep on going and if I get protested they'll have to address it then.

Please read GCR 8.1.4, page GCR-61 in the original publication for 2009.

If yer waitin' for a rules clarification from the ITAC or CRB, yer gonna be waitin' a looooong time...

[StephenB]

2 Months?? Do you know how long you would have waited 2-3 years ago??? Forever!


.

Really? Do you have ANY examples? I have been actively racing with SCCA for 10 years and been a member in the club for close to 25 years. I do not see any improvements on Comunication or efficiency. Its the same process as in the past except that Fasttrack is posted on line so it is availble faster.

I do "guess" the CRB has a ton going on with the runnoffs coming up. However I also believe our club needs to have at least a small level of accountability.

I think the fundamental problem with the entire process is that NOTHING zilch zero feedback is given to the members that anything is being looked at even if "stuff is happening behind the scenes". (Actually you do get an automated e-mail response) Thier is a reason "meeting minutes" are taken and probably should be taken within our organization. Utilize the SCCA.com forums and post those minutes each month and the members will most likely feel like something is happening.

I also still don't understand why ALL requests that are sent to the ITAC are not public knowledge. Afterall if I request something and the ITAC is going to "Take that feedback into consideration" why is it secret? Why cant other members chime in? Again utilize the SCCA.com forums and get rid of the e-mail process and create a "posting" process. That way ALL members can see what is being requested and ALL members can chime in.

Stephen


PS: I DO think the ITAC and the CRB has done all the "right" things to improve our classification (IT) The process, equality, and competition adjustments that have been made are significant improvements in the class and can't go unnoticed. The THINGS that have happened in the last 2-3 years are outstanding and deserve respect and appreciation.

[JeffYoung]

Stephen, in some cases, we can't give feedback -- a lot of this stuff gets hotly debated and one ITAC member giving an individual position might not be an accurate picture of what is going on.

I do agree it may be worthwhile to list out items under discussion in some sort of format so you guys know what is on our plate.

I will also tell you I don't really see anyway the ITAC could spend MORE time than it does on these matters. It's volunteers, who give 3-4 hours to a monthly con call plus probably another 10-15 a month on a message board and doing research.

[StephenB]

Stephen, in some cases, we can't give feedback -- a lot of this stuff gets hotly debated and one ITAC member giving an individual position might not be an accurate picture of what is going on.

I do agree it may be worthwhile to list out items under discussion in some sort of format so you guys know what is on our plate.

I will also tell you I don't really see anyway the ITAC could spend MORE time than it does on these matters. It's volunteers, who give 3-4 hours to a monthly con call plus probably another 10-15 a month on a message board and doing research.

I 100% agree with you. I was on a volenteer board and had to resign... I simply didn't have the time to dedicate and make a positive impact. I could easily go to the meetings but the "extra" work I couldn't commit to. By feedback I mentioned I am implying to do exactly what you are suggesting... just some notes that it was discussed or acknowledged that it needs to be adressed at some point. Meeting minutes are a simple recomendation that I would make to resolve this. Have them posted on SCCA.com I also truelly feel that e-mail should go away and posts (even if locked like the profiles at the PRO-IT website) should be the process for submitting requests. Then the ITAC can simply post a response that says we need more info, or we want more feedback from members, or this will be addressed in the order in which it was recieved. If it is a public posting we as members could see what is on your plate and what is to be discussed next. To make this happen SCCA.com HAS to be the forum that is used to be fair to all SCCA members.

Thanks for defending your position... It shows you care. I am trying to be respectfull as possible to the entire ITAC. Like I said before a TON of great things have happened in the last few years and our classification is fantastic IMHO. I just think our member feedback and request process is still from the 90's :blink:

[lateapex911]

Really? Do you have ANY examples? I have been actively racing with SCCA for 10 years and been a member in the club for close to 25 years. I do not see any improvements on Comunication or efficiency.

Stephen


PS: I DO think the ITAC and the CRB has done all the "right" things to improve our classification (IT) The process, equality, and competition adjustments that have been made are significant improvements in the class and can't go unnoticed. The THINGS that have happened in the last 2-3 years are outstanding and deserve respect and appreciation.

The THINGS you mention are ENTIRELY due to communication, and the availability of the various SCCA board members. 5 years ago, guys who didn't see the need to keep everything secret got into positions of power.

And they discussed things openly with people like you! YOU, and me, and Bill Miller and Joe Harlin and Dick Patullo, and Kirk Knestis, and on and on had a real say in the future of IT. Some of them are now on the ITAC. It might not have been through an official SCCA communications channel, but regardless, people in positions of power were, and still are, easily available, and will engage any member anytime in SCCA matters.

Steven, you KNOW that right now you can drop me an email, get my phone number and discuss things. Heck, I'll look it up and tell you that your request for a 500 pound weight loss for your Audi has been reviewed, and rejected. Due to your greed, we've added 100 pounds. All you had to do was call met to find out! .;)

10 or maybe even as little as 5 years ago?? Ha! Good luck with that. You just couldn't engage any member on a board unless you were in the inner circle.

The ability to communicate is EONS better than it was 10 years ago.

As to the recent lack of info, we've been hammering out some fundamental issues, and we've made some operational changes. Both have absolutely held up "Things" that you would normally see sooner. I'll look into things and see if there is a communications break or a reason for the silence.

[StephenB]

Jake,

I honestly think our catagory of racing is good and our board is great. But I have no idea what requests have been made or what the ITAC is working on. I know you and other board members but does everyone else? I am simply trying to suggest a simple way to help the members of our club see what hard work you all are doing. I think as a volenteer group you have all taken on huge projects and made great accomplishments. I hate to see others be frustrated because the work you are doing is not comunicated. Thier is a reason that town meetings have an agendas posted, their is a reason they have meeting minutes within 72 hrs. It is so that the comunity knows what is happening.

Again I applaud your efforts but someone on the outsided without the connections or comfort level to call has no idea what is happening. I do not think it is fair to any ITAC member to have to take phone calls from the hundreds of members to ask what is happening behind the scenes.

Stephen

PS: My request was to point out that the known formula is not being used on my vehicle. The ITAC members requested us (The IT community) to ask for our cars to be looked at and that they are not going to go through each car in the GCR. I tried to play my part in that role. I am sorry if you felt I was greedy I was just trying to follow the "formula".

[JoshS]

I am sorry if you felt I was greedy I was just trying to follow the "formula".
He was being sarcastic. Give him a call.

[lateapex911]

Steven, I agree that transparency isn't 100% perfect, but I was commenting on the "It hasn't gotten better in 25 years" aspect of your comments. We all owe our host a huge debt of gratitude for allowing some really important discussions to take place here. Without him, IT would NOT look the way it does today.

And yea, I was joking. There is no penalty for greedy requests, LOL. (Most requests are self serving, that's the way it rolls....)

[joeg]

What's the deal on clear windows? Pe0ple "wrapping" the windows with the car graphics? excessive tinting?

[rx7chris]

Both of my questions/requests were about spec line corrections. FYI I'm the beetle guy. trying to fix a typo in the spec line in regards to the rear brakes and get some approval for factory wheels.

[JeffYoung]

I can tell you both have been discussed. The factory wheel matter is an interesting issue.

[shwah]

Stephen - mine took a year, maybe more. It happens. It all depends on the size of the can of worms the request you sent in, or another one sent in by someone else at the same time, opens up. It's not bad that they try to take time to do it right.

[Dave Gomberg]

What's the deal on clear windows? Pe0ple "wrapping" the windows with the car graphics? excessive tinting?
The requirement for clear windows has been in place for a long, long time. What caused the clarification (the part in italics) to be added is that there are some new cars that are being delivered only with "privacy" tinting (rear and rear side windows) and there are no manufacturer or after market alternatives.

Dave