safety speech

[AjG]

I just wanted to pass on my experience from last weekend. It was a bit of a wake-up call for me.
I try to run a safe car: Good cage, Hans, Fire system…etc. My safety stuff is worth more than my car, but I never really thought about a right side net.
I was qualifying at Beaver Run and turning some pretty good laps (less than a second off the record thank you very much). The car felt great and I was definitely pushing it. I lost it in turn 3 and went into the Armco hard. Destroyed two wheels, bent the rack, and probably the rear axle housing and put a nice Armco crease the entire length of the car. It didn’t really look like much but the problem was that I hit flat broadside on the right. There was nothing to absorb any of the hit, no crush at all.
My neck is pretty sore but it could have been much worse. Anyway, the moral of the story is: GET A RIGHT SIDE NET. They are cheap and if I can get going fast enough in an ITB car (in 3rd gear) to hurt myself, then it can happen to anyone.
Ok, speech over.

[NORRIS]

AJ.

Glad to hear you're OK. Sorry about the car.

1 question: What kind of seat do you have? Is it one with a head support?

[ddewhurst]

Glad your ok. :023:

***Anyway, the moral of the story is: GET A RIGHT SIDE NET.***

There are other options:

Both the Issac & the Defnder reduce the lateral load which the HANS does not.

Please note that ALL santioning bodys that mandiate a HANS also mandate some sort of devise to reduce lateral loads, again the reason they mandate a lateral load reducer is because the HANS does not sufficiently by it's self reduce lateral loads.

My 2 cents............

[lateapex911]

X2 ^

[CRallo]

Stretched my neck a bit in a (mostly) sideways hit at NHMS at the triple event a lil while ago...

+1!

[RedMisted]

Aaron,

I saw your car get towed in but didn't know what it was all about. I thought maybe your car suffered an engine or driveline problem. I'm glad you're okay and am sorry about the car.

Thanks for sharing your message. As a stubborn type who still wears an open-face helmet, I better take heed and upgrade my safety situation with a full-face model, HANS, and RIGHT SIDE NET.

[spnkzss]

X2 ^
X3

Yet I do where an ISAAC AND have a right side net as of this year.

[raffaelli]

X3

Yet I do where an ISAAC AND have a right side net as of this year.

x4.


Glad your OK. Did the cage do well?

[Wreckerboy]

Thanks for the timely post, glad you are okay. Add me to the list of people wanting to know - did the seat have a right side head support to manage lateral loads?

[quadzjr]

Never to debunk saftey.. but what would the right side net have done for you in the crash? Assuming yoru Harness/HANS kept you secure in your seat.

[ddewhurst]

Steve, after you watch some crash video (anyones) & see the seat harness stretch under certain conditions, you'll say WOW. :unsure:

[shwah]

Yep. After watching mathis hit his helmet on the steering wheel, while fully belted, in his runoffs hit back at Mid-O, me and my buddies all went shopping for HNRs.

[rhygin]

yeah... your head can move a LOT more than you think is possible. Check out how far my friend's head moves in this video at about the 12 second mark. And this is with a proper seat, belts, and HANs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rfVy5dKB0&feature=related

If you install a right side net proprerly, it literally wraps tightly around the right side of the seat befor it takes a direct line to the dash. I got one just from watching this short clip.

Brad

[lateapex911]

Never to debunk saftey.. but what would the right side net have done for you in the crash? Assuming yoru Harness/HANS kept you secure in your seat.

Simply, the right side net, and the "Halo seats" (the head containment 'wings') are the 'new' solutions to the realization that the basilar skull fracture and less severe neck injuries are a major issue in all forms of racing. The HANS was developed to combat that, but the HANS is really quite bad at dealing with the offset crash forces. Hence the proliferation of the, shall I call them, 'band aid' solutions, or, better termed, 'secondary levels of protection', such as right side nets, etc.

Products like the Isaac Device are far more effective at mitigating the side loadings, and the additional levels are more multiple layers of protection rather than the absolutely needed items that they are when the HANS and equivalents are the chosen device.

Simply put, the HANS is become the 'defacto stnadard', like Kleenex, but in fact isn't the be all and end all. As always, there's more to the story, and critical thinkers will do their research and look deeper to get the full scoop.

[JoshS]

You mean that something works better than Kleenex?

[Duc]

the "Halo seats" (the head containment 'wings')

I was looking at one of these then went to look at the car, and could not figure out how I could get out of the car with that much more material in the way. One of the Miata's I got in this weekend would have been almost impossible for me with a seat like that.

On that note, what do people like with the right side nets? Mesh or strap?

[ddewhurst]

***You mean that something works better than Kleenex?***

You betcha, my 5 year old grand daughter Hannah uses her sleeve.:o Now if she was given the choice of strap or mesh I'm sure she would choose mesh because there are more edges to catch the nose stuff. On the other hand 7 month old Samantha requires any absorbant material. :unsure:

[AjG]

I just have a regular seat. I’ve been looking at the containment seats but they are expensive and some of the designs look a little questionable.
As far as the other H&N’s… Isaac, Defender, etc… There is so much discussion on the boards that it becomes difficult to choose. A lot of people don’t have the time to research and even if they do, it gets murky fast. It is easy to get bogged down in all the details and new technology and end up with nothing.
All I’m saying is that if you are like me and have the Hans(or nothing), think about a side net. I thought a side net would stretch too much or be too far away to work but let me tell ya…your head can go pretty damn far to the right. I felt like mine touched the passenger door.

[lateapex911]

I was looking at one of these then went to look at the car, and could not figure out how I could get out of the car with that much more material in the way. One of the Miata's I got in this weekend would have been almost impossible for me with a seat like that.

On that note, what do people like with the right side nets? Mesh or strap?

And realizing that, the ITAC recently loosened the vent window rules to make egress easier for those that chose a HANS, then discovered they needed a seat to provide full protection, but were then looking at a pretty small bit of real estate to climb out of in the event of an incident.

[JoshS]

Jake, your bias is showing. Some of us chose the head protection seat not because we realized our HANS was inferior ... we just chose it because it's obviously safer than a non-head-protection seat. Frankly at the time that I bought that seat in 2006 I'd never even heard of an Isaac and had never seen any side-impact H&R restraint numbers. I bought a HANS in back in 2004 because I knew it was safer than the horse collar I had been using and everyone else had one. Actually I'm not sure how anyone would have known that Isaac existed in 2004, or even 2008, without reading this forum or rr-ax. I still have never actually seen one in person.

But yes, you're right, I personally didn't consider the egress issue associated with that seat until I mounted it in the car.

[rhygin]

Duc,
The only right side nets that I have seen recommended are the strap ones. Mine has some sort of non stretch kevlar stuff that is supposed to not stretch or something. I was used in the C5R LeMans vettes and this one is just smaller. Figures that was a smart idea...

The net has a quick release at the mount which makes it easy to "dump" in you needed a speedy passenger side exit.

No idea and no affiliation... pretty sure I dropped cash here:
http://www.safetysolutionsracing.com/wordpress/?cat=12


Thanks
BB

[lateapex911]

Jake, your bias is showing.
Ahh, oh well, LOL.


Some of us chose the head protection seat not because we realized our HANS was inferior ... we just chose it because it's obviously safer than a non-head-protection seat. Frankly at the time that I bought that seat in 2006 I'd never even heard of an Isaac and had never seen any side-impact H&R restraint numbers. I bought a HANS in back in 2004 because I knew it was safer than the horse collar I had been using and everyone else had one. Actually I'm not sure how anyone would have known that Isaac existed in 2004, or even 2008, without reading this forum or rr-ax. I still have never actually seen one in person.

But yes, you're right, I personally didn't consider the egress issue associated with that seat until I mounted it in the car.

I think I got my H&NR system around that time as well. I read up a bit, and yes, found out that there was more than a HANS that was effective via this, and other webboards. I became aware of that design seat later, and the one I saw was marketed as a "Hans supplement"....but I still seriously considered one. Until I saw one installed in a car, and the bell went off..'How will I squirm my 6'3" self out an RX-7 window that has THAT blocking it!?!?!".

If I drove a car with a larger window, (like perhaps my next car). I'll get a halo seat, because, even though I've had a hard enough side hit to send the car to the frame shop and break a few ribs, and I've never had a twinge of pain in my neck post incident, a better seat than my current Momo could only help.

[ddewhurst]

***I bought a HANS in back in 2004 because I knew it was safer than the horse collar I had been using and everyone else had one. ***

We been discussing H&N restraints for a very long time on this site. Google is a wonderful tool. When I procure race car associated stuff I look at available data so that I receive maximum return. There is a lot of data out there. With an Isaac a person obtains maximum protection with minimal clutter. :023:

[924Guy]

Sorry, boys... a RHS net alone WILL do more than an ISAAC alone in this case. BTDT.

Of course, the best solution is both; Sam Moore t-boned me hard on the RHS at last year's ARRC 9not his fault, I was spinning cross-track) while I was wearing my ISAAC and have the Safety Solutions RHS net. I was fine, and finished the remaining 16-odd laps and ended on the podium. The car had to go to the frame rack afterwards.

Still, that was better than the time shortly after I got my ISAAC and I smacked the wall hard on the right, no RHS net. Bounced hard off the petty bar with my cranium, not fun. Cut that bar out and installed the center net right after. Well, once the car was fixed, that is.

No, I don't have a containment seat. No decent options in my budget, and the nets are more reliable/robust IMO.

[gsbaker]

The key is controlling lateral motion at the shoulders. Once that's accomplished most of the problems are solved if the H&N restrain has good lateral numbers. Watch the rear-view mirror for head motion.


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[seckerich]

So I guess it goes without saying that you turned in to early and too hard at the kink??:D

[ddewhurst]

***So I guess it goes without saying that you turned in to early and too hard at the kink??***

That make be correct for a kink, but please don't turn in early at THE KINK.

I don't expect to test my Pro road racing seat with shoulder support & Isaac any time soon except that when I do I expect the results shown in Greg's video. :023:

[rhygin]

The lack of movement is significant... looks lik it was "flat hit" and not moving too fast... had fast was that hit?

What is up with the Dfender option? Anyone have one? I hope that no one has "used" one, but if you had to... any reports.
BB