ITC Super Beetle

[Macbaine]

Hello all, I've started a project that I've had sitting beside my house for a while. It's a 1971 Super Beetle that I'm planning to build into an IT car. So far I've just been pulling everything off and getting it sorted out.

Plans are to freshen up the engine and transmission. Replace the suspension with some new components and pretty much run it at HPDE's next season until I get it sorted out. Then start running the NORCAL races the followin season.

Anywho just figured I'd pop in with a fresh VW face :026:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2605956881_0e12599c0a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/2606785688_2f7f9d0c70.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3661/3504899977_4226332222.jpg

[Z3_GoCar]

I used to know a Walter Grundler who crewed for a SB racer in SFR. Be sure to replace the stock metal tank with a good fuel cell, remember this chassis predates composite fuel tanks and it's located in the perfect spot to cover the driver in fuel. Secondly, you may want to request the ITAC reexamine the weight. Somehow I think this was one of the cars that "fell" through the cracks in the last re-alignment.

[Macbaine]

Righto, the stock tank was pretty much toast when I got it so I've been eyeballing a new fuel cell pretty hard.

Will definately look into re-examining the weight if it did, and then I can build accordingly with as many road maps as I can get to keep it legal. Once it's back to rolling on all fours I plan on getting a stripped weight on it.

I'm just getting rolling at the moment but I can't wait to see it finally run through it's paces.

[Knestis]

Awesome. My first car was a '71 Super. If you can rustle up specs (e.g., a Road & Track road test) and send it to the ITAC with a request, we'll make sure it gets reviewed.

K

[JoshS]

According to this article, it looks like 60hp gross, 46 SAE Net. If all Super Beetles are spec'ed together, then 48 appears to be the peak.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/AffordableClassics/2004/June/

Something tells me it won't get down to its spec weight, no matter how we calculate it, so just make the car as light as legally possible!

[Greg Amy]

Sweet. At least you picked the strut-equipped, IRS version instead of the leaf-spring-torsion, swing-axle version!!!

LONG, long time ago, like in the late 80's, a guy in Texas tried to run ITA (!!!) with one of those. Damn thing needed new drums every day, 'cause he was WEARING THEM DOWN. Didn't the Supers have discs up front in the later years? If so, I suggest retro-fitting...

Looked kinda fun at the time, though...

P.S. Gotta admire the Harbor Freight jackstands....yup, I got a set, too...

[Knestis]

According to this article, it looks like 60hp gross, 46 SAE Net. If all Super Beetles are spec'ed together, then 48 appears to be the peak.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/AffordableClassics/2004/June/

Something tells me it won't get down to its spec weight, no matter how we calculate it, so just make the car as light as legally possible!

It blew up the official ITAC spreadsheet: The resulting spec weight is an imaginary number.

:026:

K

EDIT for my favorite "owning a Super Beetle" story. I was driving home from work on I-405 one evening, and heard a "thwak, TING, Ting, ting, tiiiing..." just a second before the car (his name was Waldo, after an obscure cartoon character from my childhood) took a big swerve. I gathered it up and pulled off the next exit. The left rear tire was tucked up almost touching the inside of the fender... Fast forward to being 16 and not having the faintest idea how to figure out what was wrong, so I take it to the local dealer. They put it up in the air, charge me $80 and proclaim that there's nothing wrong with it. (In hindsight, the suspension went into full droop and probably looked fine from underneath.) I'm young and dumb and walk out poorer and no smarter. After a lot of head scratching, we FINALLY figure out that the huge metric socket-head cap screw that holds the rear trailing arm has fallen out. We sourced one from the U-pick but could never get it torqued tight enough keep it from backing out, so securing it in there became one of the very first projects undertaken with the gas welding rig I got the next summer...

[Macbaine]

From looking at specs I've only seen discs on Euro spec Supers and regular Beetles. So I went with what I could find :happy204:

The car was bought a year ago for my winter driver, life changes put it on the back burner and me looking at it longingly. I then went through winter riding all but about a week total and realized what the heck do I need a "winter vehicle" for? I had been trolling on Superbeetles only the whole time, reading about what people were doing and such. Took my bike (2007 Buell STT) to Sears Point Raceway last November and ended up ditching it on the back stretch. When I came home from the hospital (two broke ribs and a banged up shoulder smarter) the first thing I saw was the poor Super staring at me blankly with no headlights. I scratched my head, grinned and started reading up on racing and where the old bugger would fit.

I love the fact that just about everyone knows a Beetle of either flavor on sight and the stories I get at work when I tell people what I'm doing with it are why I think I'm loving it this much before it's even gotten the motor in. Dude, its a bug!

Anywho, I'm keeping the GCR close and :eclipsee_steering: in my dreams so :D It's no Herbie but.... he was a show off anyways.

[CRallo]

Love It!!!!

[lateapex911]

Wow...I have to hand it to you. You are choosing a most character filled car, yet one that will present you with perhaps the steepest of uphill battles for the class. Perhaps only a Renault would have been steeper!

Yea, I also ran the numbers on the weight. uggg. F1 cars are heavier, LOL. And the irony is that there's not much to legally strip off of a Super Beetle!

Good luck. Those Datsun 510s out there are pretty stout.

[bamfp]

There is a lot of HP potential in there. Most of it free. Aircooled cars are going to take cover IT.

Blake Meredith
ITB 914
Aircooled Technology
GoTronix.com

[Macbaine]

I'm sure with some fiddling it will breathe better, but I was looking at the economical side. Beetles of any flavor are just durn cheap to get a start in. I mean they are the original import tuners anyways :shrug: parts literally are everywhere and just doing homework has saved me many mistakes.

I figure I'd just like people to be able to say hey I can do that. I mean screaming around a track in any car is still screaming around a track.

[Duc]

Sweet. I have had one of these. Loved it.

There is a LOT of tar on those. Do you have a friend that can get a hold of a blaster?

Too bad coil overs are out of the question, you could convert the rear to this:

http://www.eagleperformance.com/images/ImageBandCOConKit2.jpg (http://www.eagleperformance.com/CoilOverKits.html)

It will be a fun project. Jealous on the cost of parts =)

D

[Macbaine]

Oye vaye the tar... I'm just been weedling it down as I go, one reason I started on the front. I've literally gotten only the section cleared in the picture. I keep telling myself it's for the best but geez I hate tar. The interior is losing weight just in the 1/4 of "sound deadedning material" that they used... EVERYWHERE :eek:

Ya I originally was going to run it the coil overs before I decided to go this route.. one more savings :smilie_pokal:

It should do fairly well with some updated torsion bars and a rear sway bar though. Dialing in will take time but heck why not simplify everything.... less things to go boom woohoo

:eclipsee_steering:

[Wreckerboy]

Deeeeply jealous - is the rest of the thing as rust free as those inner fenders are?

As for brakes - since even the curved window Stooopers didn't come with disks, look to see what the FV guys are doing for things like brake linings and the like.

v----- has owned way more ACVWs than he can count at this point. Real Volkswagens don't have radiators.

[quadzjr]

It blew up the official ITAC spreadsheet: The resulting spec weight is an imaginary number.

:026:

K

Haha!!!

Either way interesting build. I will be watching this thread. keep us posted.

[Macbaine]

So far the only holes I've found is one in the parcel tray. I'm going to have to talk to the local tech inpectors because if the exhaust is free... and all holes to between the engine compartment and the cabin need to be filled, does that mean I should block up the heater channels?

:blink:

Enh a ways away though. At least I can still get a factory washer bottle :o

[Marcus Miller]

next SFR race, look up Tony Silva, now racing SM#79; he used to run a super beetle :)
ask anyh of the SM guys, they'll know him.

[RacerBill]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHH You bastids make me do it! Here is a preview of the finished car!!!!!!!

[Macbaine]

Heh gotta love the swing axle squat :happy204:

:eclipsee_steering:

[evanwebb]

totally cool! please keep us updated with pics!

[gr743]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHH You bastids make me do it! Here is a preview of the finished car!!!!!!!

'This Trans-Am Volks looks like a joke until it blows your doors off!'

http://www.1302super.com/treuhaft_pass.gif

[gr743]

And one more

Treuhaft Automotive Specialties Trans-Am '72 1302.
http://www.1302super.com/treuhaft%20cat%20cover_pic.jpg

[RacerBill]

Picture of the #37 C Sedan was taken at the Turkey Bowl at Marlboro, Md, Nov. 1966!

[loopracing]

Here are some pics of our Ex-trans am Beetle. this car actually beat the Treuhaft car in the '68 Mid-Ohio Trans am, finished 5th to Treuhafts 8th. We ran nationals from '76-'80. Car is still owned locally, but won't sell it. was never Road raced since it was sold.


http://loopracing.com/Beetflag.gif
http://loopracing.com/Bugvet.gif

http://loopracing.com/betcurv1.gif

http://loopracing.com/No16sprints.jpg

[loopracing]

Here's a really old pic of our car
http://loopracing.com/Loopnazi.jpg

[loopracing]

Sorry for the hi-jack

Here are some pics before our first driver's school:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/loopracing/beetle2.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/loopracing/beetle1.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/loopracing/beetle3.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/loopracing/beetle4.jpg

[Macbaine]

It's most definately appreciated, the colorful history of these cars is what made me want to build one!

[Steve35]

I don't know how to paste pics, so I'll give you a link to Dan Gurney's #3 Beetle at the 1962 Nassau Speed week

http://www.sebeetles.com/images/nassau_63_gurney_empi_no_3.jpg

Steve

[matt batson]

my first car of 8 yrs was also a 71 super.
Really a decent handling car, and won some autocrosses with it back in the day.
Aero isnt great, drums had good power but...are still drums.

I have got to think you will be way underpowered in ITC. And, with road racing, power if uber important.

that said,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlqaUtQommI&feature=related

[Macbaine]

Well, since I'm working on the front half at the moment. Anyone have any recomendations for fuel cells? I've hunted left right and center, but can't make up my mind.

[Steve35]

How's the car coming? Any updates?

thanks,

Steve

[Macbaine]

Slowly... Mostly just disecting and figuring at the moment. Replacing the front panel has become a challenge. The drivers side front suspension is completed and just working on knocking the passenger side undercoating down a bit. Attached the sway bar and passenger side control arm to make me feel like I did sooomething on it. Gonna be making a phone call to Proseatz and seeing if they can come up with some seats. Waiting on pay day to get the fuel cell ordered, need to get it down on all fours so I can tow it over and have some holes patched in the pan.

Looking at converting a used Uhaul into a toy hauler instead of buying a tow rig and trailer.

Will have to look and see if I have any new pics. But, mostly just getting youngun onto a bicycle and ready to begin school...
That's gonna be an extra four hours a day to get movin.

The floor pans are just rusty because of moisture, no real holes.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/3505708134_eaf5527ee7.jpg

And my favorite picture to date.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3563671233_7092f2ce92.jpg

A bug lover in training and daddy's little wrencher. :smilie_pokal:

Also looking into rims from Bildon Motorsports. I got ahold of one of my customers at work that is going over the cage requirements to see if he'll be able to build it for me.

Main goal for my weekend though is to get her back on all fours, pull it out and pull the rest of the windows so I can finish gutting the interior. Another friend from work is helping me out since I don't have a welder and is welding up the deck lid, hood, and fenders of trim holes that won't be used. Then I can start working on the rear end of the beast.

One thing I was wondering is one way to combat camber issues is to swap the swing arms and the shock mounts from one side on the other. I'm guessing you can't do that in IT though. I've been digging more into the cage and body restrictions and requirements and haven't begun the suspension wording yet.

Anywho that's about it.

[Greg Amy]

Got Facebook? Coincidentally, I "re-met" the guy that raced that Beetle "back then" through Facebook, and he uploaded a photo (let me know if this link doens't work):

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=354129&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=802499153&id=1623476189

Toss him a note, he might have useful info. - GA

[Macbaine]

ya it says can't be displayed right now. Facebook is great, I've found people I haven't talked to in almost ten years.:024:

[loopracing]

we ran the fuel cell in the stock location. Just remove the stock tank and get a 8 gallon rectangular cell (bigger if it will fit) trim the hole to fit and steel straps (welded tubes is better) to hold it in. That seems to be the safest location. The tire well is lower, but that well was designed for crushability in a crash. You'll have better fuel feed with the cell just about higher than the carbs too.

[Kaline]

I applaud your effort!! I would also like to build a Super Beetle for ITC, as I am very familiar with these cars. I’ve owned my Cal-look 1971 Super Beetle sedan for over 15 years. A few years ago, all I needed was a body to build one, as I had TONS of stock leftover parts including a fresh engine, used trans and brake system. Alas, I never thought about an ITC Super Beetle and sold off all my spares.

The cars can be made to handle very well with very little work (stiffer front springs, lowered, wider tires, addition of rear sway bar). However, you will run into some competitive challenges with the current SCCA rules for this vehicle (see SCCA website for rules):

1. Drum brakes. Heat dissipation will probably be a challenge. I would petition the SCCA to let you run Karmann Ghia front disc brakes, as they really help the braking performance of the vehicle and are from the same time period (1971-era performance).
2. Engine power. The rules limit you to a 1585cc displacement, stock heads with minimum (1” depth) match-porting (no combustion chamber re-shaping), stock cam & flywheel and 7.5:1 compression.
3. Curb weight. The current SCCA minimum allowable weight for this vehicle is 2000 lbs. A stock 1971 Super Beetle weights 1835lbs.

My approach would be:

Suspension: TopLine lowered front struts, 10% stiffer springs and strut tower brace, adjusted torsion bars in rear, Koni dampers all around. Topline larger front sway bar and Sway-A-Way rear sway bar. Airspeed engine brace for additional support on engine and rear shock towers.

Brakes: use the best German brake hardware you can find.

Wheels & Tires: Run a set of 1973 Volkswagen Sport Beetle 15 X 5.5 wheels with the largest tires that will fit (probably 195/65R15).

Engine: Weber 32/36DFEV progressive carb, new 041 cylinder heads (largest stock intake ports), Gene Berg 3.5 quart deep sump for oil cooling, Gene Berg Achiever pulley, 1 3/8” equal length header exhaust. Valve cover breather system. Electric fuel pump. 1975+ VW/Bosch alternator for reliable electrical power.

Trans: 3.88:1 ring & pinion single-side cover transaxle.

Interior: Proper welded in cage, race seat, seat belts, tach, oil pressure, oil temp, cylinder head temp gauge.

Run the car for a season, get it sorted, then approach SCCA about the brakes, engine compression & weight issues. Most of all, HAVE FUN! Best of luck! Post pictures of your progress!

[JoshS]

So you know that lexan windows, fiberglass body panels, aftermarket camshafts and aftermarket flywheels are not legal in IT, right?

[JLawton]

And, the SCCA isn't going to let you change the brakes just becasue they are not that good........... We pick our cars, warts and all........

[Kaline]

Thanks for the correction. I am new to the IT world, and did not realize that body panels could not be swapped, or that the cam & flywheel had to be stock. I'll re-read the specs before I post anything like that again. I removed those items from my post above as well.

[Macbaine]

Thanks for the input :D

Getting ready to haul it to down the fabricators shop:happy204: in the next coupla days. Works been slow, but it's still pretty much in cleanup mode. I found some rust in the rear quarter panel, no big woop, but now it seems someone put filler foam behind it.... oh... joy heh.

Will post up some more pics when I'm not so under the weather. Oh and I'm running Topline Extreme's already and my work actually can get some pretty decent prices on stock VW parts so I'm accumalating a new pile of stuff to pick up. Just starting from the front and working my way back.

Thanks again all

[racergti]

You might hit up some desert-buggy sites for motor input. There is a class limiting the motor to stock specs (similar to IT) that has been around for decades. There's probably a bunch of wisdom there.

For wheels, the porsche 914 fuchs (4-spoke, not the 5-spoke like on a 911) are plentiful, cheap and light.

I used to auto-x a beetle and had a blast. I've often considered an IT super. I'll be watching this thread!