What class do you think this would fall in?

[StephenB]

I am planning on building a new car in the near future. The truth is I dislike being passed by my Dad (which has now happend twice this year!) He actually pitted on the start of our last race and then passed me and beat me! ARRRRGGGGG :cool:

Anyway the following are the statistics on the car I am interested in.

Thanks for your input,
Stephen Blethen


Engine : V6, DOHC, front engine RWD
Displacement : 2,967 cc
Valve : 24 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Transmission : 5-spd manual, 6-spd automatic
Fuel economy : city - 18 mpg
highway - 26 mpg

Suspension : F - Independent double wishbone
R - Independent multilink
Brakes : F - Vented discs
R - Solid discs

Horsepower : 240 hp @ 6800 rpm
Torque : 221 lb-ft @ 4100 rpm
Redline : unknown

Top speed : 145 mph
0-60 mph : 7.3 sec.(manual), 7.5 sec.(automatic)
0-¼ mile : 15.7 sec @ 91.0 mph(estimated)
60-0 braking distance : 125 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.82 g

Curb Weight : 3736-3806 lbs
Overall length : 192.0 in.
Wheelbase : 114.5 in.
Overall Width : 71.6 in.
Height : 56.0 in.

[StephenB]

Ohh another quick question. The manual is very rare... can you take an automatic and legally put the manual into it? does it need to be the exact year (the only year) that it was offered with a manual if I do use an Automatic as a "doner"

Thanks again,
Stephen

[Ron Earp]

I think that is a Jag S-Type isn't it? Cool cars. 240hp though is the top of ITR. May or may not fit.

Rough estimate would be over 3200 lbs.

[JoshS]

I think that is a Jag S-Type isn't it? Cool cars. 240hp though is the top of ITR. May or may not fit.

At that very heavy curb weight, it might not even be able to get down to its process weight ... it might be an ITS car!

There's no upper limit on the HP in any class, at least in my book. IT is primarily a HP/WT classing structure. A really heavy car might have a lot more horsepower than a really light car, but they can be classed together.

[Ron Earp]

There's no upper limit on the HP in any class, at least in my book. IT is primarily a HP/WT classing structure. A really heavy car might have a lot more horsepower than a really light car, but they can be classed together.

Hmmm. Well, when a lot of cars were considered for the ITR proposal the cap was 240hp as the break.

The 240hp E36 BMW M3s were not included, much to the disappointment of many folks. If the ITAC is open to putting the M3s in the class then we probably should class those cars up as well as a few others in that 240-250hp range if what you indicate is correct.

That car could easily get down to weight. It has a lot of luxury crap and is all removable in IT.

[JoshS]

Hmmm. Well, when a lot of cars were considered for the ITR proposal the cap was 240hp as the break.

The 240hp E36 BMW M3s were not included, much to the disappointment of many folks. If the ITAC is open to putting the M3s in the class then we probably should class those cars up as well as a few others in that 240-250hp range if what you indicate is correct.


The E36 M3 makes no sense because it would have to carry something 745lbs of ballast. The chassis is simply too light to support a 240hp car. Think about it -- the exact same chassis is already in the class with 189 stock hp. Do the math for what 51hp adds in weight.

But a HEAVY car with 240hp is fine. Make a list.

[Gary L]

Ohh another quick question. The manual is very rare... can you take an automatic and legally put the manual into it? does it need to be the exact year (the only year) that it was offered with a manual if I do use an Automatic as a "doner"

Thanks again,
Stephen
If there was only one year the car was available with a manual transmission, that is the only year that can be classified in IT... so yes, you're stuck with that particular model year for the "declared" build. However, with the recent hatcheting of the VIN rule, there may still be some wiggle room with respect to the birthdate of the tub itself. Just my opinion, but I drove by a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

[StephenB]

I think that is a Jag S-Type isn't it? Cool cars. 240hp though is the top of ITR. May or may not fit.

Rough estimate would be over 3200 lbs.

yupper :) :eclipsee_steering:

Only offered in a 5 speed for 1 year... 2003 Can I take a donor automatic and put a 5 speed transmission into it?

Stephen

[Ron Earp]

The E36 M3 makes no sense because it would have to carry something 745lbs of ballast. The chassis is simply too light to support a 240hp car. Think about it -- the exact same chassis is already in the class with 189 stock hp. Do the math for what 51hp adds in weight.

But a HEAVY car with 240hp is fine. Make a list.

I don't see the Jag as any different. Same power, approx same weight as the M3. I'm sure he'd rather race the car in ITQ at a lighter weight. Curb weights don't mean much of anything - the car can make sub 3000 lb if needed. I got to help take one apart back in early 04 and it is full of weight. The front power seats weigh in around 84 lbs each. Lots and lots of other stuff.

Time for an ITQ already?

[JoshS]

yupper :) :eclipsee_steering:

Only offered in a 5 speed for 1 year... 2003 Can I take a donor automatic and put a 5 speed transmission into it?

Stephen

Don't see why not. The Touring category actually has explicit mention of such a conversion, but the IT rules don't have similar wording. I would say, just make the result indistinguishable from a car that originally had a manual, and you're good to go.

[JoshS]

I don't see the Jag as any different. Same power, approx same weight as the M3. I'm sure he'd rather race the car in ITQ at a lighter weight. Curb weights don't mean much of anything - the car can make sub 3000 lb if needed. I got to help take one apart back in early 04 and it is full of weight. The front power seats weigh in around 84 lbs each. Lots and lots of other stuff.

Time for an ITQ already?

I think you don't know how little an E36 M3 actually weighs.

This sounds like a reasonable car for ITR since you're pretty sure it could make its process weight.

But I'm fine with ITQ. Pretty sure the CRB isn't ready yet though.

[Ron Earp]

I think you don't know how little an E36 M3 actually weighs.


I do, owned one and liked it, a 98 coupe. Lightly built, not much to them. Kind of disappointing in a way because they aren't built any better than anything else out there but sure cost a lot more. Cheap fasteners, interior plastics, cheap cooling system, the whole nine yards. Jag isn't a heck of a lot different except for the fact it has oodddleees of sound deadening, much heavier seats/materials, etc.

Like M3s though, best all around sedan /sports car I've owned.

[StephenB]

Well I have a love for Jags and always have :) If I am going to race something it has to be something I am passionate about. So it's Audi or Jag for me! (I still like the SVT focus though)

Thanks for your thoughts. I was hoping for ITS but figured ITR would be it's home if it was eligable.

The lighter colored one looks like a cat on a mission to me!

[lateapex911]

Ambitious...

[BlueStreak]

and isn't the twin to that the Lincoln LS, which was also available as a manual for one year:D

Can you say Hot Rod Lincoln?

[Ron Earp]

Yep, about 2300 of them made with manual. I bet about the same, or less, for the Jag. Whew, you might be better off with a Jensen Healey for parts availability!

[StephenB]

ya even my friends in the Jag world are saying I am crazy :) They said I would never find my 3.0 Xtype in british racing green and as a stick but I did :happy204: (I know the Xtype is more like a fake jag but I still love it!) I have discovered that it was made from 99 to 03 in a stick only with the v6 not with the v8 which in my case is good because the V8 would be way to much weight for ITR!

Remember back about 10yrs ago when my brother and I built the Audis. We were crazy to to that back then but those turned out to be pretty quick. Although this is on a completly new level of expense! ITR class alone is expensive then throw in a crazycat that is hard if not impossible to find and oh ya that Getrag company that built the tranny for Jaguar... they don't exist anymore!

I'll have to keep thinking about it!
Stephen

[GKR_17]

Yep, about 2300 of them made with manual. I bet about the same, or less, for the Jag. Whew, you might be better off with a Jensen Healey for parts availability!

From what I've heard Lincoln parts aren't that hard to come by, and I believe the Jag shares most of the running gear. This is the first I've heard about a manual available in the Jag though... needs to be a US model to be legit. As for the tranny, not sure if this is true, but I've heard it's the same as the E36 BMW, if so they're plenty available. Now getting a 3800+ curb weight car down to 3100ish (for the Lincoln) is a tall order to say the least.

Would love to see it though... "It's got safety tubes, but I aint scared"

[JoshS]

This is the first I've heard about a manual available in the Jag though... needs to be a US model to be legit.

First I've heard of it too.

But Edmunds says it was available in 2003 and 2004:

http://www.edmunds.com/jaguar/stype/review.html

[C. Ludwig]

As the owner of a 2000 LS V6 manual, I am always intrigued by talk like this.

One thing I always keep in the back of my mind when I have thoughts of how cool this car would be in ITS/R trim is that the car has absolutely zero aftermarket support. Not only for go fast parts but for general maintenance parts as well. My car is closing in on 200k miles and the front end is shot. The ball joints are non-replaceable so I'll have to buy a new upper a-arm and upright to replace the ball joints. Total price for those parts and new wheel bearings (can't buy the bearing, have to buy the hub assembly) is around $1000 to do both sides of the front end. So, instead of around $100 that I used to spend putting ball joints and bearings in the RX-7 once a year it would be a cool grand.

I am also very skeptical that car could achieve a competitive weight. Even if it has a similar power-to-weight ratio as a BMW for example, the added weight, in my thought process, would be a too large of a handling handicap for a small horsepower advantage to overcome.

[BlueStreak]

Yep, about 2300 of them made with manual. I bet about the same, or less, for the Jag. Whew, you might be better off with a Jensen Healey for parts availability!

Hey, I used to race an RX-3, and let me tell you, the Jensen Healey guys have got it made:p